The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
70 Weeks: Bringing in Everlasting Righteousness (PART 3 of 4) LIVE!
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comes from God. We wouldn't have that on our own. He gives us that faith. Then we can actually put that faith in him as far as the peace that's what it is. It's the faith in his finished work, not just on the cross, but every day that he lived on this earth in the flesh, keeping the law. So I don't have to. We would never attain it you all. So we don't need to ever try to put anything in that. To walk an aisle, say a prayer, read these certain scriptures in order. It's all hogwash. Unless God saves somebody, they ain't gonna be saved.
Speaker 3:You're talking kind of double-tongued. So when you say we can't get this reconciliation, then you say we get all this other stuff from Christ. I don't understand where you're going with that.
Speaker 4:Where would you have us go on reconciliation? What is it to you?
Speaker 3:Well, I understand what it is. I'm asking this question to the panel because I know how the world thinks concerning the scriptures. Right, but we can't get this reconciliation. But then he goes on speaking as you do.
Speaker 4:Well, I think, I think that what he's talking about I understood it that way is that he's talking about the result of coming to faith. Coming to faith, I don't nobody, nobody can claim if they have been reconciled until they've come to faith in lord jesus christ.
Speaker 3:But I think I mean if he's saying that that's fine, but it just sounds like he's talking two different ways no I I, I said I heard, that's what I heard, but um but um.
Speaker 4:But I think that is what happens, because because that's the whole point, that's the whole point of what Christ came for Right. He came here to reconcile us. So we were, we were. The reconciliation is called reconciliation because the conciliation was broken with the fall, was broken with the fall, and so Christ was prophesied in Genesis 3 to come in the future to do one thing to reconcile us back to God.
Speaker 3:Hey, brother Jonathan, you're correct, but my question still has not been asked how I understand the belief of it. But how do we get this reconciliation? What is it we must do? Can I take one?
Speaker 5:more. Stab at it, go for it and then mark your neck, brother. God is the one who reconciles. He has either reconciled you or he has not. If he has, you will come to faith. If you never come to faith, you were never reconciled. Hold on, hold on.
Speaker 4:Hold on Esco.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, go ahead, mate. Now, when you say, come to faith, what is that? What is the faith?
Speaker 5:It's believing that you have been reconciled through the cross of Christ, trusting in that. So when you're trusting completely in the person and work of Christ, then you know that you have been reconciled. You don't become reconciled, then you just recognize that you have been.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm going to let y'all go on with that.
Speaker 6:Can.
Speaker 4:I try.
Speaker 6:Can I just say one thing Hold on one second.
Speaker 4:Let's go to Mark and then Lisa. Next Mark, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was just going to spin off of Greg there. He kind of stowed what I was going to say, but he's exactly correct. When we read the scriptures, when I think of the word peace, I think of rest, I think of security, and when we relate peace to reconciliation, we find throughout scripture that that's what God did. We were like you said, jonathan, we were enemies of God, we were entities with each other, and Romans 8 tells us that. You know, the carnal man can't even obey the things of God, or neither does he even desire to do the things of God, or neither does he even desire to do the things of God. So that regeneration has to take place first and he reconciles us to himself. God reconciled the world to himself through Christ. So it's at Calvary that God made peace with us. We didn't make peace with God, we didn't reconcile ourselves to God, but God was the initiator, because he loves us so much. It was him who reconciled us back to himself. It was him that made peace with us.
Speaker 3:Amen brother.
Speaker 6:Lisa go ahead.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say again.
Speaker 6:I was just going to say again it is. God replaces the heart of stone with the heart of flesh. He causes us to put our faith in the sacrifice that Christ made on our behalf. So our sin required an atonement sacrifice. He was the sinless lamb, the perfect, unblemished lamb, who took our sin upon himself. And when we receive that new heart, it causes us to believe. He causes us to believe and have faith, and that's where we're reconciled back. He changes it. I don't. A person can't do it on their own. I'm learning that now. I used to be of the belief. Yeah, you know. Maybe you know we could choose God, but as I'm reading and I'm growing in my faith, it's all him and it just. It makes his greatness all the more.
Speaker 4:Amen, sister Mitch, go ahead. You were going to say something, Mitch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm asking these questions not because I don't know. I want people to think we talk about it generically. You know what everybody say. Every other person can pretty much just quote the same thing, and so when I'm maxing, you know I'm trying to invoke thought. It's not just enough to just generically talk about well, he did this, he did that's fine, uh, but mark, uh, marco, but marco, marco, but Marco, push Martin to push more to the direction of how we supposed to get this reconciliation. You know, the Lord said come unto me all, ye that labor and have a lady and I will give you rest. Which is that right you?
Speaker 2:know, then we understand what that rest is.
Speaker 3:Then we go into other things. We have to be able to explain to people by the, by the verse, by the scriptures, as to why we say what we say. Because, if you notice, you can almost ask anybody what you think and they'll tell you what they think and they could be talking right, but you can't relate it to scriptures and this way we kind of get off it.
Speaker 4:That's all I was saying no, I agree, I agree, I I can I add something?
Speaker 7:be quick, okay. Um, if you, if you make it hard for people, all right it's. To me it's real simple. I tell my parishioners, or I've told my parishioners, there's two ways to to get Christ All right, and they all end up at the same place. One is from your head down and the other is from your heart up. And what what happens with a lot of people is that that if you sit in and spill off a bunch of verses right and left, they're going to turn you off. But if you talk to them about what is all this God and Jesus and heaven and hell and Satan and all of that kind of stuff means to you, then they can feel your heart and your heart begins to talk to them. But you know, I'm hearing a whole bunch of stuff and I'm hearing a litany of things that you got to do this and you got to do that and do this. And to me it's real simple If you want Christ in your life, ask him. Right, we know that.
Speaker 4:I mean I think everybody here understands that. But I do believe there's some, a significant amount of validity to what Mr Mitch is saying, because one of the problems that I always have and try to deal, one of the things I like to do in sessions like this, and whether it's in person or whether it's like this is I'm one of those firm believers that most people who are Christians know what they believe but don't know why they believe it. And so you will ask them a question about something and you will always know that they have no clue why they believe it, because they will do things like say, oh well, go listen to my pastor or let me see this link or this website, or go watch this. It's like no, if you can't tell me, then that means you don't know. And I think that Christians need to be in a place where they have become students of the word of God and they know what peace means, they know what reconciliation means, they know what propitiation means, they know what imputation means. These are all words that are in the bible that most people have no clue what they mean and most people won't even don't even recognize that they're there. So so I agree that that the questions need to be asked, but I also think that we need to be able to give it. And if we know it, you know, but there's one, there's one, there's two verses in Matthew five and the beatitudes that I want to read before I go on back to righteousness.
Speaker 4:And Daniel nine, which is Jesus, says this. He says agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge and the judge hands you over to the officer and you'll be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there until you pay the utmost penny. What Christ says is this agree with your adversary while you are in the way with them, while you have the chance In this life. We're born into this life. We're born having made God our adversary. We are carnal people who are at enmity with God. We're at war with them. From the minute we're born. We're at war with him, embracing sin, war with them. From the minute we're born. We're at war with him, embracing sin. And so Christ is basically telling us that we have this window of opportunity to agree with our adversary. And when we do, agreeing with him is what the reconciliation is all about. The war is over and now there's there's reconciliation taking place, and I think that's that's the, the, the, the heart of the matter.
Speaker 4:So now I want to go to Romans. I'm gonna go to Romans, chapter 3. Now I'm gonna read through these verses. It's like five verses, but we see, in these five verses we see righteousness used over and over again. Now, hearkening back to what we originally began talking about, bringing in the prophecy of daniel prophesies about bringing in everlasting righteousness. So I want to focus back on that.
Speaker 4:But all these things we've been talking about are part of what being righteous is all about, because they become, because righteousness becomes the part where all these other things sort of spring forth from. So in Romans 3, paul says in verse 21,. And it's interesting, he says but now, but now the righteousness of God. It was funny Every time I started to speak somebody poured water or something. Okay, anyway, paul says but now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. The righteousness of God is now manifested without the law, apart from the law being witnessed by the law and the prophets Verse 22,. Even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that believe, for there is no difference, meaning Jew versus Gentile, no difference anymore. Verse 23, because all have sinned, jew or Gentile, and came short of the glory of God, also Jew and Gentile alike.
Speaker 4:Verse 24, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is, in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth to be a propitiation. There's that word through faith in his blood to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins and, jerry, we talked about this for the remission of sins that are passed through the forbearance of God. To declare, I say at this time, his righteousness that he might be the just and justifier of him which believes in jesus. So what he is saying is this ultimately, he's pointing out and I'll open it up a little bit, but what he is basically saying is this when christ came, when christ came, he went to the cross for our sins, which we all, all know.
Speaker 4:We see the term righteousness being used in these verses four times. We see the term righteousness being used in these verses four times and it says that the righteousness that we have was witnessed and proven by the cross of Christ and it says that his cross demonstrated that those sins that were committed in the past, in other words those who were faithful before Christ came, and then those who are faithful after him. He is the just and justifier of them all and he says that his death, in verse 26, declares that. So the remissions of sins, or I should say in verse 25, god set forth Jesus to be our propitiation, the wrath being turned away from us by his blood, and thereby declaring his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, meaning the Old Testament saints through the forbearance of past, meaning the Old Testament saints through the forbearance of God or through the patience of God, or some Bibles might say, at one point where he winked at, in other words, that he didn't let it slide. He saved them. They were saved, the Old Testament saints, but he didn't let their sins slide.
Speaker 4:But the time would come where Christ would demonstrate on the cross that his righteousness was theirs as well, because they believed in him and this finished work that he would do on their behalf. And so we see again here, in verse 26, he's also declaring at this time, at the time, that he is going to the cross, or that he's gone to the cross already. And now we're in this era of grace, that he might be, uh, uh, you know, showing his righteousness toward us, that the that he might be the just and the justifier of him which believes in jesus. I know it's a mouthful, but I want to go around and let everybody sort of give a comment on that. Meg you're you're the latest to the group. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4:on righteousness, on the righteousness through faith yep, the righteousness through faith, because we're talking about, we're revelation, our revelation. We're in daniel 9 and we're talking about the point where it says that that, um, he would be bringing in that part of the fulfillment of daniel's 70 weeks would be bringing in everlasting righteousness. So what we're doing is establishing when this took place. Most of us have already said that this. I think all of us agreed that the righteousness of christ being given to us as a result of his resurrection shows that this, that this prophecy, at least in part, when it comes to bringing in everlasting righteousness, has been fulfilled.
Speaker 8:Yeah, and I think 21 answers the question perfectly. It says but now, so if we go in chapter 3, and we're reading from verse 9 through 19, we gain an understanding of how powerful 21 is, because when we're reading we see, I think can I read it, brother Jonathan?
Speaker 4:Go for it, okay.
Speaker 8:So let me set the stage real quick. So everybody has it gets edified. So in in in Romans, chapter three, it is humanity sitting in a courtroom, okay, and we are all being, we are all on trial. And during this trial, humanity is charged with 14 counts. Okay. So if we read at verse 9, it says what then, are we better than they? Not at all, for we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Speaker 8:Verse 10 says, as it is written, and here are the charges against humanity there is none righteous no, not one. There is none who understands. There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside. They have together become unprofitable. There is none who does good no, not one. Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues, they have practiced deceit. The poison of their asps is under their lips. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness, their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are their ways and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Speaker 8:And so now that humanity has these charges, which is each and every one of us, the verdict is given in verse 19. It says now we know that whatever the law says, it says that those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. So then we get to verse 20, and verse 20 says all right, we're going to make an appeal off of works, we're going to try to make an appeal because we just been charged, we're guilty, now we're going to make an appeal. And verse 20 says therefore, by the deeds of the law, no flesh will be justified by his sight, for the law is the knowledge of sin, will be justified by his sight, for the law is the knowledge of sin. Now we get to 21, where the tables turned Okay, so court's over.
Speaker 8:Now we get into justification. So the courtroom stops and says hold on, jesus is here, all right. And so when Jesus comes in the room, it says but now the righteousness of God, apart from the law, is revealed. So we see here in verses nine through 20, that we were all deemed guilty. And now that righteousness of God apart from the law which is what we just read, because the bad news is first in Romans, chapter one through three, two, three, twenty one we get to the good news. So now that we're here, we see perfect justification in verses twenty one through twenty five. It is the perfect work of redemption, which was Christ. So if there is a perfect work of redemption that is Christ, that means that Jesus Christ had to bring in everlasting righteousness because there is no other way apart from the law. I rest my case, amen.
Speaker 4:I like that. I like that. Comments Brian what do you think, brother?
Speaker 1:For one we've been missing, Sister Meg.
Speaker 4:I know we should lay to the the party.
Speaker 1:We'll forgive her this time. Yeah, I mean that, that was just perfectly said. I mean, scripture speaks for itself. But uh, just one point about the whole dispensation, what we're covering, and you know why. One another reason why this matters it does affect the practical purpose of our ministry. If we would think about it, if we believe dispensationalism and, you know, rapture, everybody's going to disappear, clothes going to disappear and all that, and the whole world's going to, you know, in the basket. Well, think of the practical applications of that and how you do ministry. Look at our whole world and society.
Speaker 1:The church and Christians have pulled back because of that certain theology and that doctrine and what they believe, because it's all going to trash. So why bother with it? Right? You see what I'm saying, saying so you don't really get into your school board, to politics and every aspect of this whole world, because it's just all going to trash. But if you believe that this what we're learning right here through brother johnson, teaching that christ is ruling and reigning now, the kingdom of god is happening right now, well, we're going to go out in those areas and take the gospel and the righteousness of God in each one of those areas, our marriages, our homes, our churches, every area, your job, everything, because you're going to try to bring everything into submission to the word of Christ. I just want to say that, amen.
Speaker 4:Esco. What are your thoughts? Brother, esco you there. All right, let's move on. Lisa, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 6:These two made perfect sense. I can't really add anything to that. I agree, and I think it's add anything to that.
Speaker 8:I agree, and I think it's amazing, meg, we missed you. I'm back, I mean. But it's a thought, brother Jonathan, to like really think if Christ did not bring in all righteousness, then when we obtain his righteousness, then that righteousness would not be in fullness because he hasn't fully brought all of it Right.
Speaker 4:Well, that's and that's, and that's the point, because, um, my, my biggest issue and I'll come back to you, esco, in a second, so, my, my, my big issue here is in is in Daniel nine, trying to show that these things that were listed in Daniel's prophecy, these are things that have been fulfilled. We cannot be talking about imputation of the righteousness of Christ to the saints if this hasn't taken place. It just can't. And the thing about it is the fact that the fact that Christ resurrected three and a half years into the 70th week is indisputable Now, and that's indisputable even from the standpoint of a dispensationalist. In other words, if they are willing to look at the consecutive 490 years as being taking place in in a consecutive timeline, there is no way that even they can say that this is not true. In terms of christ, he began his ministry at 30, which was the beginning of the 70th week. If we hold, if I'm holding to what I'm holding as being true, so even if you want to say that there is say that the 70th week is detached by the space of over 2,000 years from the first 69 weeks, I have a better leg to stand on and people to hold this position, and the reason why is because if you take the time in a linear way, the time in a linear way, the beginning of the 70th week begins with the ministry of jesus christ at 30 years old. It ends three and a half years into his ministry, when he's 30, when he's 33 years old. That, if you take that linear timeline from the time cyrus sent out to tyrus, cyrus made the order to go build and build jerusalem and rebuild the temple. Then, right up until you know the time of christ, the time, the time makes perfect sense.
Speaker 4:But these guys, they still say nope, nope. But then you have to explain well, if it's later, if it's later, then that means our righteousness is later. You know the everlasting righteousness, the holy city is later, which they say is going to be rebuilt in jerusalem and israel and it's going to be a glorious place. When they're going to find the red heifer and they're going to reinstitute the sacrifices and all that stuff, you're going to have to say that the finishing, the transgression, hasn't happened yet, making innocence hasn't happened yet. All these things that we, that when we look at the word of god, they all say we as believers, are experiencing these things right now. We know these things right now. We know that jesus christ, that we are his temple, we are his body. We know we are the temple. You know, we know that, that that when Christ rose from the dead, he told them that three days later he would rebuild his temple. If you tear it down, which they did, I'm going to rebuild it. Three days later he's scratching their heads with confusion. But what did Christ say? He said in three days, on a third day, I will raise it up and then he does.
Speaker 4:And now you got Christians saying he was that Daniel wasn't talking about the temple of Jesus's body to talking about Christ. He wasn't talking about him. He was talking about going back to Israel and building a physical nation over there and building a new building over there. And the same Christians that say going to church doesn't matter because buildings don't matter, that's all they're waiting for is a building to be rebuilt. Jesus said I am that building, you are the lively stone, I am the cornerstone, the prophets and the apostles. The prophets and the apostles are the foundation. And he says that the foundation has already been laid. Paul says it's already been laid. A foundation which no man can lay has already been laid. So if the foundation hasn't been laid, like the Bible tells us, then these pre-tribulationists and all these people, they have an, they have an argument to stand on but you are.
Speaker 8:You were also, brother jonathan, talking about cyrus, right and and? And that prophecy of cyrus was very interesting because god talked about cyrus 150 years before he even came into existence oh yeah, cyrus, cyrus.
Speaker 4:You know, cyrus, he had a role, but he had a role, but he had a role, just like laban did, just like abimelech did, just like some of these other guys did. They weren't, they weren't believers, but they had, they were. They were instruments used in the providence of god to bring about his purposes for his people. You know, and it's really, it's a really interesting dynamic there. But the thing is we have to understand that, when it comes to Daniel 9, and again I keep saying this we have to understand if we are saying that these six things had been fulfilled already and we're experiencing them now, then the ramifications of what that means for dispensational theology is significant, because really it means that all of that goes to the wayside. There is no.
Speaker 4:If this thing is true this is the point I'm trying to make If what we're saying is true, everlasting righteousness has come in already, if the anointing of the most holy has already happened, if, if reconciliation for iniquity has already happened, all these things then that means that the 70 week, the 70th week, can't be in the future. It happened when our lord was here and it happened at a time that was future to the time the prophecy was given. So why would this over all these things that are happening right now and point to some carnal period where there's supposedly going to be god dealing with the nation of israel as the nation that they once were?
Speaker 3:Well, let's look at it like this, jonathan, I agree with what you're saying, but the Bible tells us the time and the seasons are not given to us to know. Now I take your example, as I believe what you're saying, but far as when we're talking about the future, because there is a time span, right, you got to bring in of this righteousness, jesus Christ, and then he passed it down to his apostles and they preached it for a certain period of time and they're all unalive. And the Bible said there'll be great fall in the way. Then it says they shall go to and fro seeking knowledge and won't find it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it said towards that, towards the time of man, that there will be.
Speaker 3:He's coming back for his church without a spot or wrinkle and any time that god, before he did something, he always sent a prophet alone. The bible tells us so it wasn't that there are no sociality in these times will be few that find it this way into this safe house. So, before the son of perdition, do his thing, because God says wrath is not for his children. So I hear what you're saying, but I believe it's still a period of time that that will go on. I'm not because I'm not saying you are incorrect, but when we get into the distance of that time I think that's when we started make shipwreck, because we can't determine the length of that time, because there still are people that are going to make um, this thing, um, before satan himself actually controls everything so let me ask you a question.
Speaker 8:I wanted to ask mitch a question too, let me.
Speaker 4:Let me ask you a question so the issue to ask Mitch a question too, let me ask you a question. So the issue that we're talking about here. Let's set aside timing, whatever issues. Now we got two prophecies for sure, for sure. That gave us definite timelines, absolute, definite timelines, timelines, absolute, definite timelines.
Speaker 4:Daniel, this, this fort, this, this 70 weeks, is a definite timeline, an absolute timeline. He and the one that God gave Jeremiah about the 70 year captivity. These are two. These are two and I think there's a couple more, but anyway, these two specifically tell us exactly when something's going to begin and when it's going to end. These two is specifically, in fact, daniel's, or jeremiah's 70 week prophecy of the captivity of the israelites going into in babylon. He said that would last for 70 years.
Speaker 4:Daniel's 70 week prophecy, for 490 years, fell hard up against the, the um prophecy of jeremiah.
Speaker 4:In other words, here's the Israelites to Babylonian rule, and the reason why is because they ignored their Sabbaths. So because they ignored their Sabbaths, god made them pay up by putting them into captivity. So everything as a result of that, in terms of the city and the temple and all that kind of stuff, fell into falling apart. So Daniel's prophecy says, from the going forth of the command to go back and rebuild Jerusalem and the city and all this kind of stuff that will be built in trouble as times. Now the time for restoration is about to take place and so soon as the 70 week captivity, or the 70 year captivity ends, the 70 weeks of daniel begins, and this is what we're what we're seeing happen here. So the long way of getting around to my question which is too late because it's already gotten long which is this what I'm dealing with tonight is in this list of six things that are listed in Daniel's prophecy as being something to be fulfilled in this prophecy. So if Reconciliation