The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
70 Weeks: Bringing in Everlasting Righteousness (PART 4 of 4) LIVE!
What if everything we've been taught about Daniel's prophecy has missed the mark? This riveting conversation dives deep into Daniel 9:24 and challenges popular end-times interpretations by revealing how Jesus perfectly fulfilled every element of this ancient prophecy.
Starting with the prophet's words about "finishing transgression" and "making reconciliation for iniquity," we explore how Christ's declaration "It is finished" marked the completion of these prophetic elements. Through carefully examining passages from Isaiah and Jeremiah, the discussion reveals the incredible significance of Jesus as our "righteousness" - a title prophesied centuries before His birth.
Perhaps the most fascinating revelation comes through examining why Jesus needed to be virgin born. When God cut off the kingly line through Coniah, declaring none of his descendants would rule on David's throne again, it created a divine problem: how could the Messiah come from David's line if it was cursed? The answer lies in the virgin birth, which gave Jesus both birthright (through Mary) and legal right (through Joseph) to the throne - a masterstroke of divine wisdom that perfectly fulfilled seemingly contradictory prophecies.
This conversation doesn't just clarify ancient texts; it transforms our understanding of God's redemptive plan. By setting aside traditional interpretations and approaching Scripture with fresh eyes, we discover a richer, more coherent theology that centers on Christ's completed work rather than speculative future scenarios.
Whether you're a seasoned student of prophecy or just beginning to explore these topics, you'll come away with a deeper appreciation for how meticulously God orchestrated every detail of salvation history. Let this discussion challenge your thinking and inspire you to study Scripture with renewed curiosity and humility.
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for iniquity is being made today, then we know that the time has passed for this particular prophecy to be fulfilled. In other words, all these things that we read finishing the transgression, ending the sins, making reconciliation for iniquity, bringing an everlasting righteousness, so forth these things are what are to be fulfilled in this prophecy. So what I want to ask you, mitch, is this. The question is this have these things happened yet or not? That's the big question.
Speaker 2:According to what you mentioned about the reconciliation and forgiveness, that we understand that all was completed, right when he said it is finished, okay, so now we can say that was brought in. That's the. That's the end of the prophecy, but the beginning of something else now that I agree with that.
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't argue that at all and that's, that's what I'm saying about the extension there is. There's more to it. Yeah, the bringing in of it has. That's why I said I totally agree with you the way you explain, daniel, coming to this point, because I can't deny that, you know, because all that was all done in Christ, right, but that's also the beginning of something else and I don't know, I don't disagree with that. Was all done in Christ, but that's also the beginning of something else, and I don't disagree, that's all I was saying.
Speaker 1:I don't disagree with that at all. I think that there's a lot there to be looked at, because I got an idea of some of the things I think you're thinking about. But what I want to make sure that I solidify in people's minds, or at least solidify the warrant for giving some brainpower to it, is these things in Daniel 9.24, establishing that these things are proven now, because if these things can be proved and I think we've been doing that that that the fulfillment has already been upon us. Then that, when I want to get people to understand, is the significance of the ramifications of that when we talk about, when we have discussions with the greater part of christianity today that believe some outrageous things. I call it da vinci code christianity, but you know, most people know what I'm talking about when we deal with that. So, and by the way again, meg, I want to tell you that was excellent. I like what you did with Romans 3. That was great.
Speaker 3:Glory to God. I wanted to ask Mitch something, so he made a point about that. We are not appointed to god's wrath, and I think there's some clarification that needs to be there. Because if we go to first thessalonians 5, 9 through 11, it says for god hath not appointed us to wrath. All right, then it's there's a comma there and it says but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Now a lot of people will say that well, we're not appointed to wrath, and I say what makes us so special? I mean, look at all these people in the Bible who you know. We're not appointed to wrath because we have salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ. We don't have wrath, and the wrath is what Judgment?
Speaker 1:Right, I think, yeah, I think I don't think Mitch was saying that, well, I don't know, I don't want to put words.
Speaker 3:I thought he was talking about that. We weren't appointed to wrath, and it's because we're in Christ that we're not appointed to wrath.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely. We're not appointed to wrath because we're appointed to salvation. Amen, yeah, that's really what the people always ask me all the time they go like, if you're saying that Christians are predestined for salvation and all that kind of stuff, then what are you saying about the wicked? I'm saying they were predestined to be excluded from salvation, and that's the way I look at that. But again, I want to stick to this right for the moment, because I want to deal with those other subjects on a different day, in a deeper way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just waiting to see where Megan was going with with that, because I'm like, uh, okay, what's the next step? I mean, yeah, that's what I was saying. We'll come back to that because I don't want to, but I want to stay on, on, on, on point here, what we're talking about, because I'm almost, I'm almost done here. I think I had like three verses that are for the look at and we'll be done.
Speaker 1:So continue with this theme of righteousness. In Isaiah 51, verse 8, it says this Isaiah says for the moth shall eat them up like a garment and the worm shall eat them like wool, but my righteousness shall be forever and my salvation from generation to generation. So what I wanted to do was just, you know, you know, calling a few people and ask what they think about this. Jerry, let me ask you about this. Isaiah 51, verse eight. It says but my righteousness shall be forever, shall be forever and my salvation from generation to generation. And I'm not looking for anything specific, just letting people put some comments on this and I'm moving on to the next one. Jerry, if you want to answer or I can move on, he might be busy. Esco. You there, brother. I think people forgot how to.
Speaker 4:There you go, you there.
Speaker 1:Yes, all right. So what do you think about that? Isaiah 51, eight my righteousness shall be forever and ever in my salvation, from generation to generation.
Speaker 5:Oh my righteousness, which is in us now, which is not ours, it's his going to be forever, you know. So that means we have eternal life, absolutely, I think our flesh will be eaten but our spirit will be forever.
Speaker 1:That means we have eternal life, absolutely I think our flesh will be eaten, but our spirit will be saved. Our flesh is. This flesh is definitely going to die.
Speaker 5:Resurrection is going to change all of that I could put a cake out and not everybody's going to eat it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to read. I'm going to read another one here. This comes out of out of Jeremiah, jeremiah 23, verse five and six, and it says this I'm going to go back to come back to you, jerry. It says um, behold the days come, said the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous branch and a King, shall reign and prosper and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days, judah shall be saved and justice in the earth. In his days, judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely, and this is his name, whereby he shall be called the Lord, our righteousness.
Speaker 1:Now I've got to tell you, you know, I don't know how many everybody here has really got into Jeremiah a little bit, but these two verses right here are heavy. They are really two heavy verses. So what I want to ask first, jerry, is this he says behold the days come, says the lord, will. I will raise unto david a righteous branch and a king, and he shall reign and prosper and will execute judgment and justice in the earth. What are we talking about here?
Speaker 4:Talking about Jesus Christ. It's on the throne of David.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's. And it says and let me ask you a question for the sake of somebody who might be listening Um, um, what, what, what? For the sake of somebody who might be listening. What do you think it means when it says that he is a righteous branch? He's a righteous branch.
Speaker 4:Kind of like. The Old Testament refers to the right arm. Okay, the right arm of God, he's that righteous branch that's being offered to mankind for righteousness and salvation.
Speaker 1:Okay, brian, what do you think? Righteous branch.
Speaker 6:That's a very good question.
Speaker 5:What grows on branches Fruit.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, greg. What do you think?
Speaker 7:Yeah, it says he is the root and the offspring of David. Right, and so it's imagery, you know, and you know, in Hebrew the word the branch is net seer, and in the new Testament picks up on it and says, for it is written, he shall be called a Nazarene, even though it really isn't the same word, it's like word play. So God tells dad jokes, right, he uses, he uses puns like that. So, um, so, yeah, so you know, Christ is called the root and the offspring of David. A righteous shoot, a righteous branch.
Speaker 1:Jonathan. What do you think, brother? I'm gonna come back to you, brian, in a second Mark. What do you think, brother Branch?
Speaker 8:Mark, what do you think? Brother Branch, I think it's in respect to incarnation and him springing up and his appearance and coming into the world he created.
Speaker 1:Okay, Brian, what do you think?
Speaker 6:Yeah, I'm just thinking about it. It's like Greg said, the imagery it's making me go back to the garden. It just is the tree of life. Okay, the we know the garden was was closed, you know, because of sin, but he is actually replanting, replanting that branch and that tree. The kingdom of God through the life of Jesus Christ in the flesh when he came, that tree is like the scriptures say it's starting out small and it's growing and it's going to cover the whole world. So I just that imagery back to the garden is what I see.
Speaker 1:Let me indulge me for a second. I want to point out something. I'm going to point out something about this branch. So David, we all know David was a king, probably the greatest king of all of the. He was the greatest of all the kings Other than our Lord himself. But David was also from the tribe of Judah, like our Lord was. But the kingly line, the line of kings, was severed, and it was severed through a king called Coniah. Does anybody remember him, coniah? Does anybody remember him, coniah? So he was a bad king and he was the king that God.
Speaker 1:Jehovah, said I'm going to cut off the kings, the succession of kings with you, I'm going to end it. So he says in Jeremiah 22, verse 24, god tells Coniah, I mean God says as I live, says the Lord, though Coniah, the son of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, were a signet on my ring I mean on my right hand yet I will pluck thee from there. And he goes on and talks about how there would be no more Kings. He says in verse 28 is this man, conia, a despised, broken idol? He is a vessel wherein there is no pleasure. Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not. Here's verse 30. Thus says the Lord write ye, this man, notice this childless. Write him childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days, for no man of his seed shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David ruling anymore in Judah.
Speaker 1:In Judah, this is a significant passage, because the kingly line of Judah, from which the kings were only to come from, has been cut off, with Coniah, jehoiakim's son, after him, no more kings. After him, no more kings. So guess what happens? Basically, this tree is cut down. You guys with me? So far, this tree is essentially cut down, yes, and only thing that's left is a stump in the roots, and Christ is called the branch. He gives life back to this stump. He starts to build his kingdom Now. But here's something else that I want to tease everybody with for your own study, and that's this this explains why our Lord had to be virgin born. Does anybody want to give a shot why? This is what warrants the necessity for him being born to a virgin. Does anybody want to take a stab at why?
Speaker 6:Yeah, because you just said the kings are cut off and they will no longer have children or seed from that type of tree.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 6:He said another father has got to come.
Speaker 3:And also does that also explain the order Jesus coming in? The order of Melchizedek.
Speaker 1:Well, it has a lot. It has something to do with that, but not specifically in this, in this regard. So what I want to point out is this when, when God cut off Kaniah, this regard. So what I want to point out is this when, when god cut off coniah, coniah was from from the tribe of judah, and kings always came from the tribe of judah and you know they came from, you know from david, because, remember, david was promised that he would have the king to sit on his throne, because, you know, saul came from the tribe of benjamin, but after that they were, they were from judah.
Speaker 1:So here's, here's the reason why jesus had to be born, had to be born of a virgin, because the king had to come from the father. Joseph could not be his father legally, because joseph was from the same line. That was cut off under Jeconiah, under Keniah. Mary was from the tribe of Judah, but because she was female that's right, you see what I mean she was a female, but at the same time she had to be virgin born, she couldn't have interaction with anybody. So the seed from which Christ came could not have come from anybody, from any tribe, because the tribe of judah was cut off. I mean, does that? Does it make sense to everybody?
Speaker 1:yes, amen yeah, so when you, when you, when you, when you get. I don't want to turn anybody's heads around, but I'm just saying, if you look into this and study this, it is deep because it explains why our Lord was virgin born. It explains why. So, by birthright, by birthright, mary was his mom, so she was, she gave birth to him, so she gave him the birthright to the throne. Joseph gave him. What right, anybody, what right? Did Joseph give him Birthright? No, he didn't, because, remember, joseph couldn't, he had no relationship with Mary yet he hadn't had sex with her.
Speaker 5:Oh, I'm talking about the Lord through working, through creating Jesus.
Speaker 1:No, so here's what Joseph provided. Joseph gave him legal right to the throne. So because of Joseph, he had legal right. Because of Mary, he had birthright.
Speaker 3:Amen. But wasn't Joseph and Mary? Weren't they both from david's lineage? Yes, they were. Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, yeah it had to be and remember that's what made the the prophecy pure, because they were both from david's lineage. They were both from david.
Speaker 1:They were both in the tribe of Judah, both of them, and so that's important because that explains it, tells us, like I said, it tells us why he was virgin born. It wasn't just something arbitrary, it was a reason because God had cut off the line which gave Christ legal right to be king. And so that's what that's, that's how the wisdom of God is. We would look at that and go like, well, like they did, no more kings, it was over. God was through. He washed his hands of the men from Judah. And what does he do? He uses, he brings Christ into this, into this world, through a virgin Jewish woman who is from his tribe, but her husband, joseph, would give him the legal rights of the throne, which means that Jesus was born king. Amen. So king, oh man.
Speaker 1:So so in jeremiah 23 it says behold and I'm almost done, guys behold, the days come, says the lord, that I will raise up david, a righteous branch we talked about that and a king shall reign and prosper and shall execute judgment in his earth. Jeremiah 23,. Six in his days, judah will be saved, israel shall dwell safely, and this is his name, lord, our righteousness Now does anybody remember where anybody who's a study of Greek, you would know that righteousness was the word sick canoe of greek.
Speaker 1:You would know that righteousness was the word sit canoe, the lord our righteousness in the old covenant, jehovah, was. Is what that means when he said, well, it would be jehovah sit canoe or the lord our righteousness. That is whose name jesus is. He is jehovah our righteousness is important. So we see now in first corinthians I'll just read it for time's sake first corinthians, paul says what of him are you in christ jesus, who of God is made unto us? Wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. This is the fulfillment. Christ is the fulfillment of all those things, all those things, those things, all those things.
Speaker 1:Daniel 9 did not skip over everything Jesus would do to talk about some pre-tribulation super rapture and 144,000 Jews running around and a treaty between Antichrist and all that stuff. It's all a farce. It's all a farce. And if it's not, then that means that what we read in Daniel 9, 24, none of it has been fulfilled. None of it. So, that being said, I want to let people sort of marinate on this whole thing and I want to give everybody at this point their last word, so I can go entertain my daughter, so I will start with my brother, mark. Last word, mark, what do you think?
Speaker 8:I just want to read you a text for you, jonathan Hebrews 6, verse 13. Okay, one of my favorites. For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no greater to swear by, he swore by himself. That's always been a big encouragement to me because, just as we're reading and studying about tonight, it's all in him. His promises are yes and amen. He never fails.
Speaker 1:Never fails, man Never fails. Is this your first time or second time?
Speaker 8:Second time, but first time was a ways back.
Speaker 1:It was a little ways back. Anyway, welcome back, brother. I hope you come back again. I like your answer, but first time was a ways back. Yeah, it was a little ways back. Anyway, welcome back, brother, and I hope you come back again. Thank you, I like your input, brother. I really appreciate it. Esco, last word, brother. What's your last word for everybody tonight?
Speaker 5:Okay, it's. Once you've tasted the goodness of God, it's impossible for you to turn away, and every time I come here you give me another bite of that goodness. Time I come here, you give me another bite of that goodness.
Speaker 1:You're good for my ego, brother. You keep coming back all the way. Here's something I want everybody to know before I go on to the next one, the next people, because I want to get everybody to get their last word in. But I want to say this right now, and that is that what I'm trying. Of course, what I'm always trying to do is convince people of a perspective that I may have whatever, but ultimately, that's not my ultimate goal. My ultimate goal is to give you something to think about. I want to challenge people to think about deeper things, to think about these things so that we have a very thorough going understanding of who it is we worship and what he's done for us and for it to help improve the way we communicate this blessing, this gift that we have, that god has given us to other people. That's all. That's what it's all about to challenge, to uplift, to exhort, to edify, to be edified and exhorted. So, um, so I appreciate everybody there, and that will actually be my last words. I'll let everybody else finish theirs.
Speaker 3:Meg, your turn I will just say, to go along with this, I will say jeremiah, chapter 33, verse 3. It says call to me and I will answer you and show you great and mighty things in which you do not know.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to tell you something that that is one of the most beautiful scriptures, because to continue to seek, you will find knock and the door will be open to you. You know, the more and more you get into this word, the more it becomes alive. And it's alive for every point in your life, everything that you go through, everything that you will go through, and he is the lamb who was and is and is to come, and it just shows it all in scripture.
Speaker 1:Glory to God, amen, sister, thank you for that. Mighty Mitch. How you doing, brother, your last word. Tell us something.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, I just want to say, man, I really appreciate your reasonableness in the scriptures. And what I like the most, you're like myself. You're not afraid to lift others and tell them they're right when they're right. That's one of the things that we miss when we're dealing with a bunch of so-called people that claim to know the scriptures. It's like they only want you to listen to them and they can't tell you. You know, when you say something like you know won't even give you the grace, Right, you say, hey, you know what, man, I understand what you're saying and you're right about that. You're right about you know, and that's that. Encourage dialogue, because at the end of the day, we should want to know what it is to walk holy, not just try to you know, match wits with wits, you know, but that's not going to do any of us any good. So I appreciate your commentary, brother, and your reason on this in the word and you being able to say, hey, you're right, I understand what you're saying. I really like that.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate that man, I really. I mean, you know, listen, you know, 40 years ago not even 40, yeah, 40 years ago, 38 years, somewhere around there I would have been the same person you're talking about. Yeah, to develop a concern and a care for your, for your fellow brothers and sisters in christ. If you're sincere, you gotta, you gotta change things. You know, and uh, believe me, humility was not easy for me to learn. In all honesty, it wasn't. It was not and uh, it was part of my character, part of my dna, um to to always want to fight. I see that here a lot on these platforms, where vitriol is what it's all about Proving somebody else wrong or proving you're right.
Speaker 2:That's it, don't get me wrong, jonathan, don't get me wrong. I might sound calm and collected, but I'm definitely looking for a fight, but in a righteous manner. You know what. I'm definitely looking for a fight, but in a righteous manner. You know what I'm saying. I don't know where we're going to get off track at, but the thing is, because of your demeanor, we probably can disagree and still have love for each other, absolutely. That's the fruits of the spirit and that's what I try to tell people. You can't get all beside yourself and then holler about you're a Christian because somebody don't agree with you.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that's true, that's true. And the thing about it is, so many times people, when somebody disagrees with us, we always want to write them off as false teacher, false prophet, false this, false that, false, this. It's like why? I mean there are, there are certain things like if you said, if you said that jesus christ wasn't god almighty, that he wasn't divine, whatever. That's a different conversation, but a lot of times we there, there are things that we have to give people room to grow in and and um, and sometimes this is lost when people are trying to just have honest dialogue. But I get what you're saying, brother, and I really appreciate the good words. Brian. Last word, brother.
Speaker 6:I would say the reason that this is a hard topic for so many. You know the dispensation and the scriptures that we're covering. It's really it could be any doctrine or theology, but it comes down to our traditions and what we're raised in in our society. We don't realize how many traditions we have until we start going to the scriptures and somebody points out and says, oh, this is like what's happening right now. This is what the scriptures are actually saying. Right, makes us ask the question well, man, have I always believed this?
Speaker 6:I just kind of took that and, like you said, I didn't understand or never thought about it. But a story from Scripture that really brings this home is think of the wise men. They didn't have the traditions of the Pharisees and the Jews and the Sadducees. They were we would say they were lost astrologers and all that stuff like that but they actually had the scriptures and they read it from a untraditioned mind, so simply that they came and followed the stars and said there's a king, according to the scriptures, that's being born.
Speaker 1:That's a big point, because that's something I haven't gotten to yet, because and I mentioned it in the first the first conversation we had about daniel nine, which was that how do they know when to be there?
Speaker 1:they knew exactly they knew, and that one old man. Was it gamaliel? I can't, I can't remember what the old man was. He was waiting to see the constellation of Israel. Remember him, the old guy that he wouldn't die until he saw the baby, until he saw Christ. He knew when it was, he knew when the Messiah was supposed to show up. They knew, they knew, and I don't know how this is missed with people. How do they know? Because there's no other passage anywhere in Scripture that would tell them that, except for Daniel 9.
Speaker 6:Well, it's the simplicity of understanding the gospel and the Scriptures, just reading it. Simple and, like I said, being burdened down with that tradition, because what it is, that tradition just gets passed down to the next person. Well, mom and dad told me that, grandma told me that, so I'm not going to go against grandma, for goodness sake. So we just take that as fact and we never read the scripture ourselves and look at it that way.
Speaker 1:And that's what we've got to do. We've got to challenge ourselves. Never read the scripture ourselves and look at it that way, and that's what we got to do.
Speaker 6:We got to challenge ourselves. That's what we got to do, yeah, so let's just put our traditions down and just go with.
Speaker 1:Scripture say try to find, try to and try to work through it. For sure, greg brother, your turn last word okay.
Speaker 7:so we talked a little bit about imputation. So there's three great imputations in Scripture. The first one is Adam's sin was imputed to all of humanity yes, you know. And then the sins of Christ's people, right, everyone who would ever believe their sins were imputed to Christ on the cross. That's the second one. And the third one is the same people, all those who would believe Christ's righteousness was imputed to them, Amen. And then the last thing I can't believe. You haven't seen that episode of Gilligan's Island and you're a Navy man.
Speaker 3:Come on Brother Greg, you're going to have to DM me that, brother, please. I've got to go watch that. Dm me what what you just said? I like that a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is really good Adam to man, the sin of man to Christ and then the righteousness of Christ to man.
Speaker 7:Right, those are the three great imputations. And did you know you can sing Amazing Grace to the tune of Gilligan's Island. Amazing grace, how sweet. The sound Saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found. Was blind, but now I see.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how would you say the part with Gilligan?
Speaker 7:They messed that part up.
Speaker 1:They messed that part up. They messed that part up, All right. So Big Gravy, last word, brother.
Speaker 4:All right. Tonight is a little different. Brother Amen. I'm mindful of an old hymn Okay, it says Jesus paid it all and all. To him I owe.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I love that hymn. Love it, I love it. I'm a hymn book guy. I want to finish it.
Speaker 3:Brother Gravy Sin has lost its crimson state.
Speaker 6:He's washed his white and small.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that, I love that. Candy Girl, you're the last one, you're your last word. Sister, you might be driving her truck, so anyway, I guess we'll call it in, pack it in for tonight. I want to thank you all again, as usual, for making it so easy to do these things and for and for giving you know me, the benefit of this enjoyment of your company and this and this dialogue and this conversation been definitely productive, as always.
Speaker 1:And again, it's really just to put things out there so that people can look at it and we can challenge each other on it and and grow thereby and make these kind of platforms have good use. You know, put them to good use, because this is a good use if we, if we do it right, if we do it right, and I think we've been doing that, and so I hope to keep it going and I hope to have as many of you come back as often as you can, as often as you like. Always welcome here for me. So God bless you guys. Be provoked and be persuaded in everything when it comes to the word of God, and I look forward to the next time, which is hopefully tomorrow. All right, good night, good night everybody.