The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
Trials as Preparation: Finding God in Life's Darkest Tunnels
Every Christian journey includes seasons of suffering that push us to our limits. What if these painful experiences aren't punishment but preparation? What if God is actually closest to us when we feel most broken?
This profound conversation explores the counterintuitive biblical teaching that trials are essential to spiritual formation. Drawing from 1 Peter, Hebrews, and James, we discover how suffering serves as evidence of our fellowship with Christ rather than His abandonment.
"He gives us the light at the end of the tunnel before we get to the tunnel," one participant observes, capturing how God reveals our glorious destination before guiding us through difficult terrain. Yet Jesus isn't merely waiting at journey's end—He walks through every dark valley with us.
The discussion challenges modern comfort-focused Christianity by examining why believers should "count it all joy" when facing trials. We explore how Christian suffering differs fundamentally from worldly suffering through its redemptive purpose: producing "the peaceable fruit of righteousness."
Particularly moving is the conversation around Christian community during hardship. Rather than offering empty platitudes like "just lay it at Jesus' feet," believers are called to tangibly support one another—like those who held Moses' arms up during battle.
For anyone navigating difficult seasons, questioning God's presence in suffering, or supporting others through trials, this episode offers profound biblical perspective that transforms how we view life's darkest moments. The path remains difficult, but knowing its purpose changes everything.
Before we go through the trial. You see what I mean he gives. He gives us the light at the end of the tunnel before we get to the tunnel. Right, right, and that's the beauty of it. It's like he's like saying you know what? Listen, this is what you're going to go through.
Speaker 1:But here is the but, the result has already been established. And he tells you what the result is. And so you see, here in Peter, in verses three through seven, you see this parenthetical assessment that he's giving to us believers. He says, on the first hand, you're going to get this inheritance that is undefiled, that is, that is, that doesn't fade away, that's reserved in heaven. And this is all made possible because God, the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ provided showed us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ the abundant mercy that he's given to us and that he was risen from the dead.
Speaker 1:So you got this great thing at the first part. And then he goes by the way you're going to have many manifold temptations and trials and heaviness, through all of it all, and it's to make your faith, to try your faith Right. And then at the end, on the other side, the other side of the parenthesis is that he says but this is so that you will be found to the praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ. So all of this is preparation, not punishment, jonathan.
Speaker 2:He is the light at the end of the tunnel, but he is also the tunnel, that's right, oh.
Speaker 1:I get that, oh, yes.
Speaker 2:He's with the whole time, yep. Oh yes, he's with her the whole time. Yep, start, finish and he's with her.
Speaker 1:So Candy and then Meg.
Speaker 3:So I'm just saying the preparing is kind of like when you tell Peter to step out the boat. That faith's got to be that strong that you walk out there to him and trust in him yep so that story, with what we're talking about tonight, just came to my mind. But yeah, that's what it's about, because, think about it, if peter couldn't walk out on the water because he sank, right what are we gonna do when he calls us up to heaven? Yeah, we're, we're going to fall, yep Bang.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's all about giving. It's all about getting the characteristics of Jesus becoming more cross, like more like him.
Speaker 1:That's right, sister is absolutely right.
Speaker 6:I just think we need we all need to say what Abraham said we're going to go up to this mountain in worship, but we will be back down.
Speaker 1:We'll be back down, we'll be back and this is really, is really something that is, that, that is, is, is We'll put. Peter says this again. I like Peter on this issue in chapter four, 12 through 14. This issue in chapter 4, 12 through 14. He says beloved, do not think it's strange, concerning the fiery trial which is to try you as though it is some strange thing that happened to you. So remember, remember, james says knowing this, count it all joy when you fall into these temptations, knowing that it works, patience, in other words, you're expected to know this and understand before you even go through it.
Speaker 1:Then Peter says don't think it's strange, concerning the fiery trial which is to try you as if it is some strange thing happening to you. And what does he say? But rejoice. Rejoice in as much as you are partakers listen to this, partakers of Christ's sufferings, that when his glory shall be revealed, like he said in 1 Peter, verse 7, he says that when his glory shall be revealed, you may be glad also with exceeding joy. So let me tell you something when somebody is going through something really hard, a trial, when a Christian believer brother, somebody is going through something really hard at trial, when a Christian believer, brother, sister, is going through something really hard. We should be cheering them on, like those people that run those marathons. And you got the people on the side of the side of the track giving them water and Gatorade and orange slices. It's going to be doing. Who is what?
Speaker 3:we should be doing.
Speaker 6:Who is holding up Moses' hands? That's right. You just need somebody to hold up your hands, like they did Moses, because as long as Moses' hands were up, they were winning, they were defeating those enemies.
Speaker 1:How much effort does it take for somebody to hold up Moses' arms? How much effort does it take for somebody to hold up Moses' arms? How much effort does it take for you to provide that little bit of comfort to that person? Because the thing about it is, you may be thinking this person has got some problems with God, obviously because they're going through all of this. I've never had anything like this happen. I'm faithful, you know whatever. But see, what you don't understand is that person is the one with faith. That person is the one that God is dealing with. That person is the one who God is showing, improving and demonstrating by what they're going through, that he is dealing with them. Why? So that they can be prepared to meet Christ with praise, honor and glory. See, this is the thing that people don't understand. We can't be looking down on somebody when we see them going through hardships. If they are a believer, if they love the Lord and you know they do and they're going through this hardship, you get this confused, look, because you're going like man. That's crazy. That person has had church every week. They're in 20 lives a day. They are preaching the truth, they're reading the Bible, they're singing the hymn, books, they don't watch television, all these things. But that person, god, is breaking down in a hundred ways. God is breaking down in a hundred ways Not to punish, to prepare, to prepare them for praise, honor and glory. And there's going to be a lot of people who believe that that is what they're going to get, and they are not. There are many people who believe they are going to get it and they are sadly mistaken, because you need to be purged of your spiritual frivolity and you need to become patient, to become enduring.
Speaker 1:One brother says sanctified God is. That is part of his sanctification process. Greg called it pruning. That's what it's doing, pruning you. And Peter says he says why are you acting like? Don't act, like it's strange when it happens to you, don't be caught off guard with it. Don't be caught off guard with it. And he says but rejoice in as much. And here's what he says. He says but rejoice, I get so excited, I get all speaking all over my own words.
Speaker 1:But he says this Rejoice in as much as you are partakers in Christ's sufferings. Let me let everybody in on something when you suffer, when you go through trials, when you go through affliction, when you are more when you are scorned by people who laugh at you because you believe these great truths in God's word. Know this God is making you a partaker in the sufferings of Christ. He's making you a sharer with him. This is evidence that you are one of his fellows. You are in fellowship with Christ when you suffer persecution, affliction, trials, temptations. This is the evidence that he is dealing with you and that he is in partnership with you. And he knows that you have these things going on. You know why? Because he is the one who gave them to you. He's the head. We're the body. Whatever pain the head goes through, the body goes through. Whatever pain the head goes through, the body goes through.
Speaker 1:Verse 14, he says if you be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are you? How does that make sense to the natural mind? It doesn't. And if this doesn't make sense to you, you have to be concerned as to whether or not you are yet in a carnal mind. It doesn't. And if this doesn't make sense to you, you have to be concerned as to whether or not you are yet in a carnal mind. Because he says if you be reproached for the name of Christ and, by the way, when you are reproached, it is for his great name you are supposed to be thankful, count it all, joy, rejoice when he allows you to partake in the victory that he has already garnered and procured for you Me too. So he says if you be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are you. And he says why? Name of Christ, happy are you. And then he says why? For the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But on their part, on the part of everyone else who doesn't understand this, who aren't partakers of this, on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. So here it is again. When you go through trials, when you endure the afflictions, the afflictions left behind by Christ for us to fill up, he says that on your part he is glorified. You go through these things for one of the sole reasons, which is to glorify our blessed Savior. You don't understand that this is the discipline that a Christian must undergo In order for the end result to be the praise and honor and glory that only God gives to those whom he's carried through these trials and temptations and temptations.
Speaker 1:Hebrew writer says in verse 12, now, no chastening, for the present seems to be joyous. And he makes it a point to say no chastening. At present, at this time, it doesn't seem to be joyous, but it feels grievous, not joyous, but it feels grievous, not joyous, grievous. But then he says nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them, which are exercised thereby. So we are part of Christ's plan for our, for us to be participants in his sufferings, which results in our glory. And it says that we are made a partaker with him in it and it shows that we belong to him when we suffer for his name sake. And he tells us to be happy to count it all joy. And he tells us to rejoice in the middle of it.
Speaker 1:He tells us to know what the reason is to work patience, he says, beloved. Don't think it to, don't think it to be strange, don't think, don't be caught to, don't think it to be strange, don't think, don't be caught off guard, don't be surprised when it happens and wonder why is all this happening to me? And so be prepared. Be prepared to be prepared by God If you are a believer, if you are a Christian. This is why I tell people, being a Christian is the most difficult vocation any person on earth can ever have, because none of the things that lend itself to our spiritual discipline Is consistent with the way a natural man thinks. It is all very different.
Speaker 1:The result and the success that we call our faithfulness in Christ Comes with much suffering and affliction. When the world tells you to do everything you can to avoid it, the Lord tells us not only to not avoid it but to expect it, to know that it's going to happen and to be joyous when it happens. You know, there's like there's like a little joke that we used to say in one of my offices years ago. When you know, there was a time, you know, people get these little cliches and they say them, and when something bad would happen to a person, or when someone was given a job that they didn't really want to do, there was a little saying that people used to always say thank you, sir May. I have another. It was being sort of sarcastic, but when you think about it, when it comes to being a Christian, that's what God is asking us to do. Thank you, sir May. I have another Because if this brings me closer to Christ, if this brings me the praise and the honor and the glory that I get to obtain at the appearance of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:Let me have it Now. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to be looking on the menu and making any selections, you know. But he does tell us. Don't think it's strange, expect it, it's coming. If he loves you, it's coming and notice. And I'll close with this Notice.
Speaker 1:In Hebrews 12, 11 he says no chastening of the Lord for this present time seems to be joyous but grievous. But he says nevertheless, afterwards it yields the peaceable Notice, what he calls it, the peaceable fruit, Fruit. You shall know them by their fruit. Fruit is produced through trying times. Fruit he calls it afterwards when you go through these trials of faith that work, patience that you take joyously and rejoice in and are thankful for because you've been, you're you. It has the evidence, it proves the evidence to your soul that you belong to him, that he's working with you. But he says when it's done, when it's all over and done, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness and he calls it fruit.
Speaker 1:So If you are not having trials, if you don't go through trials, if you're not having manifold temptations, if you're not going through something that is Troublesome, something that is troublesome, that is hard, that makes you break down, that makes you weep. If you're a Christian man, if you are truly a Christian man, and I know that we have to be these pillars in our households. But I know some of you know what I'm talking about when I tell you I know what it feels like To be in private In my room and to just break Crying like a baby. I feel sorry for any Christian man who hasn't had that happen yet, and I know that in the world that seems like that's not good. But let me tell you something God, at some point, is going to break every one of us down. He breaks us. He breaks us.
Speaker 1:But you know what it does afterwards, because it doesn't feel joyous when it's happening. It feels grievous, as the writer of Hebrews says. But what it does when it's all said and done, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto those which are exercised by it. And notice, he says exercised, putting emphasis on, putting an emphasis in a, in a, in emphasis on what I was talking about earlier, about discipline, and he uses the word exercised. And so, that being said, I will close with giving everybody their last word for the night. Sister Joni, what's your last word?
Speaker 5:Well, I'm home now, I worked Good, anyway. Well, last word well, I'm home now, I worked anyway. Um, well, you were saying something about people, uh, supporting each other when they go through trials and tribulations, and I, I don't know what jeffrey's told you about. We're not in church at the moment, like we have found in church, but I have to work every sunday. So, but, anyway, we, we float it for close to a year and, um, mostly online stuff. So in january, early february of 2004, uh, I found out my 15 year old granddaughter was on stage three liver disease and the church, how they supported me, was just lay it at Jesus feet and I was broken. That was something that knocked me off.
Speaker 1:I understand.
Speaker 5:And we ended up leaving that church a few months later. But but like no, no empathy whatsoever.
Speaker 1:I understand, and they were all aware of it, of the situation I'm assuming, because you said they were.
Speaker 5:Yeah, they said to put it at Jesus' feet. Yeah, put it at Jesus feet. And you know, and she is back to like she's still considered stage three but her liver shows stage one, but she has to take medication and stuff. But I mean, I believe Jesus can heal her, like there's no doubt in my mind, but for somebody to tell somebody that's broken, just lay it at Jesus feet, simply that there's the somebody that's broken, just lay it at Jesus' feet.
Speaker 1:Simply that I can't think of where the verse is. Somebody might be able to figure it out, but it's that one where it says something about. I think it's in the Word of God, where it talks about telling somebody to just go away and be warmed and be filled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, when you could do something about it. See, here's what I'm gonna say. I'll say this it is impossible. It is impossible for every Christian and I mean every. It is impossible for every Christian not to be able to do something. Impossible not to be able to do something. Impossible not to be able to do something there is. In other words, there is something that every Christian can do. It doesn't have to be a lot, it doesn't have to be a lot, just let people know you care.
Speaker 1:Just let people know you care, you know because, and see, and see, here's one thing, even on here like you, come on this platform, like this, and I'm telling you I will flip through some of these stories and whatever and I see these lies with you know, these Christian lies, where people are just ripping each other's throat out, ripping each other apart. All right, and see, ripping each other apart. See, to me this is carryover from the old man. Here's what I mean by this Whenever somebody gets angry and I hope this can make sense you never hear about somebody getting angry and that anger causes them to go do good things.
Speaker 1:You never see that People's anger doesn't turn into a love fest. But what I'm saying, what I'm getting at here, is that there's a consistency that you see, with people that behave like the world and what we have to do as believers. I forgot what the point I was going to make, that, but anyway, as believers, when we see somebody suffering, going through something, we should be celebrating them in a way where not where we're jumping up and down, but what I'm saying is we are providing them aid to help them get through the trial, to make it easy for them.
Speaker 5:Well, it goes back to this that Bible was not written for the world, it was written for the Christian. That's right. The only thing you say in there is for the Christian.
Speaker 1:It's for the Christian.
Speaker 5:What we're supposed to do.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:Sorry, I got fired up there.
Speaker 1:No, I'm glad that's what we're here to do. Get fired up, that's what we're here to do. But I understand that, sister, and it's a shame, the things that are going on, you know, in some of the doors of these churches, and I think that there should be a. I got my own perspective on ways that I think the church should be reformed because it is in a bad state of affairs and, I think, probably because a lot of it has to do with popularity, power, money, presence, numbers, all the stuff, and so it has taken away from what church should be about, and I would love to see churches go back to what they originally were, which were things like this in people's homes.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's where they're supposed to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I would love to see a lot more of that. So who knows where it's gonna go? But we know that God will lead us down the path that we need to go, and certainly lead us down the path that we deserve, and so anyway, so thanks for that, joni, brother, greg, last word.
Speaker 8:Yeah, in 2 Corinthians there's a kind of a parallel passage to that. Peter one, our light affliction, which is, but for a moment, works for us a far exceeding and eternal weight of glory, and I think that's the underlying point of it. It's have an eternal perspective and that's another evidence that it's for believers, because an unbeliever can't have an eternal perspective.
Speaker 1:That's true, they can't, they literally can't they can't and they and, and uh, they don't understand it and they and they don't understand why. Because anything that we do in this regard to them is considered weakness, but, as somebody pointed out earlier, that it is where we are weak where the strength of god is perfected. You know, um, but you're right and right, and that's the passage I was trying to remember, greg, but I couldn't. I was just drawing a blank because I wanted to add that to the list but I just didn't. But that was. I'm glad you brought it up. Glad you brought it up, mariah.
Speaker 7:Last word Matthew 5, 13. And thank you guys so much. This was all very encouraging. Again, like I said earlier, just to examine ourselves and help examine others and encourage them. Matthew 5 13 says you are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled under the foot by man. You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill that cannot be hidden, nor do they a lamp. Light a lamp, excuse me. Light a lamp and put it under a basket, but put it on a lampstand and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and, most importantly, glorify your father in heaven.
Speaker 1:Amen. At the end of the day, it's all about glorifying him, right? Yes, sir, Every day. That's what. Everything that we do, everything that we believe, everything that we sacrifice is for his glory, Everything. And it took Solomon a long time to realize that that the chief end of man is to glorify God. Period. Meg, last word, sister.
Speaker 6:I'm just sitting here thinking, and you know, I think sometimes the biggest deceiver when we're going through something is our feelings. And how many times do we put our feelings and how we feel, you know, before declaring the end from the beginning, the beginning from the end? You know walking out and saying you know what, like denying our feelings, surrendering them, you know, unto the Lord and saying you know what. I'm going to walk with this, I know you're with me, I'm going to walk with this, I know you're with me and I'm not going to fear why? Because Jesus is our ever-present help in our time of need, our ever-present help. He's not going to go anywhere, absolutely, and that's what we just have to stand firm on, you know.
Speaker 1:Right and glory to god, she said. I've learned not to trust my feelings. I put my flesh in submission to him, and that's, that's exactly the truth absolutely like you can't, because they will deceive you.
Speaker 6:Your feelings like why do you think? Like people get, like people love emotional experiences. Hence when people go into church and they have all of these emotional experiences, but like it's, that's not even what it's about. Like you, we have to learn to just focus and keep christ, christ-centered in all things, you know. That's why, part of the reason why I feel the road is narrow, because if you go off to the left, if you go too far left, you're off. If you go too far right, you're off. So, glory to God for sufferings, because you know what. I'll tell you what I wouldn't take not one of them back to be sitting right here today.
Speaker 1:The good thing is the thing is, to me, the best approach for me has been to always reflect on what Christ went through, being who he was for me.
Speaker 1:So if he can do what he did for me and had he not done what he did for me, where I would have gone and where I would have spent eternity compared to the trial that I go through as a believer, can't be measured, you know. In other words, I'd rather endure, for this moment in time, the trial and the afflictions that God takes us through to make us come out at the end to the praise and glory and honor, then to not have any sense, sensibility of what this grace that we have provides and end up in an eternity in hell. Just, you know, when you put these things in perspective, your trials are nothing by comparison, but they are everything, not only to you when you get to the other side, but they are also everything to our lord, because they promote his glory, and God wants us to focus on his glory, not our own, his, and that's what these trials do, sister Candy, last word, how about Lisa?
Speaker 4:I'm just grateful for tonight, I'm grateful for the reminder, a thing I like to keep in my mind and in looking back on some of the things that I've gone through, my family's gone through. It's Romans 8, 28. It's Romans 8, 28. And we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose.
Speaker 4:Sometimes these things are a detour, sometimes these things are protection and they seem really hard to take at the time. They seem unfair. They seem unfair, they seem, and looking back and we don't always know right then. But I, we look back and the situation that I'm in now is much better and I'm closer to God for it. So I would just encourage I feel like I don't know, jonathan, but tonight you're, you're rocking back and forth and I can see that something is is bugging you today. Today, and I, you know I'm here for you. Just know that. But remember that those you know that flat tire on your, in your tunnel. It might be a little bit of protection or something you know it's going to lead. It's going to lead. It's going to be for the best.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:Just remember that.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely Well, that's observant.
Speaker 4:You go back and look, I've been, I'm just, I hope you're OK. I mean, I'm here, I'm going to pray for you. God knows what you need. You don't even need to tell me if you want to. Please know how to get a hold of me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, brother Jeffrey. Last word Thank you for that, sister Lisa.
Speaker 2:Brother Jeffrey last word, all right. Well, jonathan, thank you for all of the wisdom that you have imparted and shared to all of us tonight and shared to all of us tonight and now. We pray that we put that wisdom and that knowledge to work in our walk with Christ, today and every day. And tonight, folks, we have talked about some things that, at least on the surface, can be a little bit scary and a little bit cause us to be a little bit fearful. So let the, as my brother Jonathan likes, to close. He likes to tell us to be a little bit fearful.
Speaker 2:So let the, as my brother Jonathan likes, to close. He likes to tell us to be provocative, and to be provocative here, yeah, exactly. So let the encouraging servant encourage you and serve you with these words, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. My fellow Christians walk in that sound mind that you give us, joni, and I love you all. Good night, and God bless you. Have a good night Candy, are you there, candy.
Speaker 3:You're the last one, last word second Thessalonians, chapter 1, verse 4 and 5, and I'll go ahead and do 6 too, so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God, for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure, which is a manifest token of the and that's just what I opened it to, with God to convince tribulation to them that trouble you. And that's just what I opened it to and that's what I read. So that's what I'm leaving us with.
Speaker 1:Amen. So here's what I'll say in closing. Is that, like I just want to reiterate what it was that Peter says. When he says, don't think it, he says beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you. And notice, he says, which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you, but rejoice in as much as you are partakers in Christ's sufferings. Rejoice in it and he is going to carry you through it. Now we all know we have an expression, an axiom, and we always say it's easier said than done. That is true, but it doesn't make it any less, more a directive that the Lord has given us. So we can find comfort in knowing that it's a trial that he's given us. He's given us to make us more faithful in our service to him and also, ultimately, to glorify him and so, with that being said, be provoked and be persuaded. So God bless you. Can I read three more?
Speaker 3:scriptures before you go Biggie backing off of that. Pardon me, can I read three more scriptures before you go piggybacking off of that? Pardon me can I read three more scriptures after you said that, piggybacking off of it yeah, go for it, go ahead still in second thessalonians.
Speaker 3:but now I'm going to start at verse seven. And to you who troubled, rest with us when the lord jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not god. And that Amen in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe, because our testimony among you was believed in that day. So yeah, you are such a blessing.
Speaker 7:I love y'all.
Speaker 1:You guys have a good night. We'll get you there tomorrow, hopefully, God willing.
Speaker 4:Amen, I'm waiting. All right, I'm waiting. Goodnight everybody.