The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
The End of Prophets and Apostles
The temptation to believe in modern prophets and apostles remains powerful for many Christians today. We're drawn to the extraordinary, the supernatural, the direct connection to divine authority. But what if clinging to these offices actually moves us backward rather than forward in God's perfect design?
This theological exploration examines the principle established in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 - "when that which is perfect comes, then that which is in part is done away with." This isn't about limiting God's power or ability, but understanding His divine progression and perfect order for His church.
A fascinating distinction emerges when we compare prophets and apostles. Both received their calling directly from God Himself, unlike other church offices recognized by the community of believers. Yet prophets primarily declared what God would do, while apostles testified to what God had already accomplished through Christ. This crucial difference reveals their distinct roles in salvation history.
The historical progression of God's relationship with His people provides remarkable clarity. Under the Old Covenant, Israel initially existed as a theocracy—directly ruled by God through His prophets. This perfect arrangement was abandoned when Israel demanded human kings "to be like other nations," tragically exchanging God's direct rule for something partial and imperfect. Yet through Christ, God restored His divine rule in an even more intimate way.
Through the completed Scripture and the indwelling Holy Spirit, believers now have direct access to God's perfect revelation and presence. We constitute His temple where His Spirit dwells. The Word of God "furnishes the man of God for every good work," leaving no need for additional prophetic revelation or apostolic authority.
What does this mean for those claiming these offices today? Are we seeking the extraordinary when God has already given us the perfect? Join this thought-provoking discussion that challenges us to move forward in God's design rather than backward to what was only partial.
Christians, good evening. Tonight I'm going to complete a discussion that I began last evening with regarding prophets and apostles prophets and apostles whereby I made the case that there are no more prophets and apostles today, and tonight I intend to continue that theme and to finish it in what I believe will be an acceptable way.
Speaker 1:I know the temptation that exists in the minds of those folks who want to believe that they are either apostles or prophets, and or those who believe they are sitting under the ministry of an apostle or a prophet, but let me make it clear the Bible teaches something very significant, which is that there are no more prophets and there are no more apostles. Does it have anything to do with God not being able to ordain people to this office? No. Does it have anything to do with the necessity of it? And the answer is yes. There is no longer the necessity of it, and when something has worn out its usefulness, then God takes us to the next level, whereby we are able to have a more illustrious perspective on who he is and what must be done in order to further his glory. I know that men like to believe that whatever they see happen in the Bible, whether it be in the Old Testament or the New, the assumption is that it must continue. The assumption is that it must continue if it ever happened, and, by way of practical experience, we can be safe in saying that there is no possibility today that it is a necessity for men to have the gifts and abilities that were needed and useful at a given time in biblical history. I don't think anybody today is gonna be endowed with the ability to part the Red Sea or any body of water for that matter, or curing an incurable disease, or getting bit by a black mamba snake and not dying, et cetera, et cetera. But I know the temptation that exists out there for certain caliber of people to believe they have been endowed with some kind of especially of a specially sanctioned power by God to do the miraculous and to upend the natural order. People mistake themselves. They make mistakes by not knowing the purpose of things and assume that God is not a God of order and not a God also that has a use for things, a usefulness that will eventually come to a close when something that is superior is made available.
Speaker 1:So we spent last night talking about 1 Corinthians 13, verses 8 through 10, where Paul makes the claim that when that which is perfect comes, then that which is imperfect must be done away. A more modern term for perfect is complete. In other words, what Paul was saying in 1 Corinthians 13 is that when that which is more complete comes, then you take away or you do away with that which was in part or that which was partial. Why deal with the partial when you can have the complete? And that is what the argument Paul was making and that is what Paul was proving when he was talking about the cessation of many of the miraculous gifts, along with the offices of those who held these gifts.
Speaker 1:So we reasoned that that which is perfect which did come, or when that which is perfect comes, we laid it out and established it as a general principle, that Paul wasn't speaking about something in specific or in specificity. What Paul was doing was laying out a principle. The principle is that if there are things that you are clinging to which are only a piece of what it is, you need to understand the bigger picture. When that which is in part is supplanted by something which is complete, you do away with that which was partial and lay hold of that which was complete. So he laid out a principle that he expected the Christian church to be able to use as a principle to determine at what point in time we should do away with the partial, laying hold of the complete. I hope that makes sense Now.
Speaker 1:That being said, the additional point that I want to make is this Having this principle firmly established by the apostle in 1 Corinthians 13,. It is not, it is made, we are made, we're put in a place to understand that, if this principle has been established. We have been given the ability by the Holy Spirit to determine what it is that we would consider first, is partial or is in part, and second, what is complete. But in order to avoid going down a theological rabbit hole, let us suffice to say that the word of God clearly establishes that it in and of itself supplies what was lacking in those things that were communicated and were attended by by the miraculous, by the supernatural, by the wonders and by signs. Signs, wonders and these miraculous events. These were used to convey pictures, pieces of what God intends for us to understand.
Speaker 1:But the principle that Paul laid out, which is that when that which is perfect comes, do away with that which was partial, we take that principle and we apply it to something that gives us a full-rounded understanding of who and what our God is. We have that in his word and we are told in the word of God that it truly furnishes the man of good works, I mean the man for every good work. We are truly furnished for every good work by the word of God, and this is what is important and what is of need for us to understand. So we made it clear that when a, a prophet or an apostle was given a miraculous gift. We we established firmly that the reason why those gifts were given were to do two things To authenticate that a messenger was being sent from God number one and number two, that the message that the messenger would be giving was a message coming from God and not derivative of the messenger. In other words, the messenger is just the messenger of someone else and in this case, that someone else is the Lord, god, jehovah, the Lord, god of glory. The word of God gives and equips every saint for every good work.
Speaker 1:If you are a believer, it is not enough to know, it is not enough to just know that the gifts and the apostolic office and the prophetic office have been done away with. It's not enough to just know that, but you need to know why they went away. Just know that, but you need to know why they went away. It wasn't because we, as believers, wanted or are attempting to limit God's power or his ability or his will. That's not the point. God is a God of order and God has established us in time so that we, in time, progress through time in a way that is upward and moving toward us being glorified in him, and I mean that in the ultimate sense death and resurrection.
Speaker 1:So what makes a prophet or an apostle? What makes a person a prophet or an apostle? How does a person who fulfills either of these offices? How are they getting these offices? Are there qualifications for these offices? How do they get them? In both instances, I will say well, I'll take that back, let me stop for a second. Instead of me saying it, I'm going to use that question as an opener to communicate with those who are already on the panel. So the question is this what makes a prophet or an apostle? What makes a prophet or an apostle? How is it that the individuals who have been given those offices? How did they get those offices? How were they appointed? So this will be my opening question to the panel, and so I'll start with my brother, jeffrey, the encouraging servant. How is it that a person is given the office of an apostle or a prophet?
Speaker 3:Well, initially, jonathan, my first thought is it has to be a calling from God. It has to be a calling from God. It had to be from God. It had to be from God, I mean, it's God had to gift them to in order to do that, to do that office, to perform that office, and a desire to preach the word and to let the father live through them. I'm kind of reaching for straws here, jonathan, a little bit, so I'm probably off the mark a little bit, but that's the first thing that came to my mind. Let me ask you this?
Speaker 3:Let me ask you this you mentioned the word desire.
Speaker 1:Do you think that the office of apostleship or prophet was a result of the desire of the one who was appointed?
Speaker 3:No, I don't, I don't. I mean, a lot of times in the Old Testament people were called by God, were doing something else when God called them to do what he wanted them to do. And so it's, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So do you want to hold that position or not?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to hold that position.
Speaker 1:You want to hold it? No, I mean, do you want to hold the position? That desire is an aspect of how they become to that role.
Speaker 3:Uh no, I don't want to hold that, okay, I don't okay, so I'm sorry I don't have any more ammo on this one.
Speaker 1:I gotta listen some more no, no, this is what we, this is, this is what we're doing, this is what this is why we're talking about it. Brother greg, your thoughts, how, how does one become a prophet or an apostle?
Speaker 4:God makes them one, and it's usually through a personal experience, like a personal experience, like God. The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah right. The word of Lord came to Isaiah, the pre incarnate word, right. So so they actually have a direct encounter with God. The 12 apostles had an encounter with the incarnate God. He handpicked them. So you're handpicked by God.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this question. So then, how is there a difference between how a prophet or an apostle is being assigned or appointed to the office? Is there a difference between that and a man being appointed to being an evangelist or missionary, or a pastor? Yes, what's that difference?
Speaker 4:Well with pastor and teacher and all those gifts to the church. Those are generally recognized by your fellow brethren. You know what I mean. Other believers around you will recognize the gifts that you have Like oftentimes the person with the gift doesn't even realize they have it. It's like the other parts of the body recognize the gift that you have and encourage you in that direction amen mariah.
Speaker 1:What do you think, sister? Anything to add? How does one become a prophet or an apostle?
Speaker 5:they are chosen, um, by god himself. Um, just, I mean, as mark 3, 13 shows us, and he went up on the mountain and called to him those he himself wanted, and they came to him, and then he appointed 12 that they might be with him. And you see, this, uh, verbiage used, all went up for whether they be prophets or apostles. I have chosen you, I have sent you type of verbiage.
Speaker 1:Perfect Brother Todd. How are you doing this evening, my friend Great, how are you doing? I'm doing all right, man, especially knowing that you're here, brother.
Speaker 6:I was like I'm like I'm not going to be invited back to be on a panel for a while.
Speaker 1:If you thought that you really don't know me, because I got a thick skin brother and I love you being here and I always enjoy it.
Speaker 6:We are here to have these discussions and have these things out. That's what we do, yeah, and unfortunately, you and I are like kindred spirits when it comes to philosophy. I can go. I can go deep in the rabbit hole, my friend, like easily, so like yeah and it's fun it's, it is. It is unless, unless it creates animosity between brethren. I don't want to ever do that well, look, that happens.
Speaker 1:That happens sometimes, but generally speaking, when that happens, somebody is falling into the immature side of things, and if we are to be faithful to our Lord, then we have to be truly objective. And that's a very hard thing for some people to do, because people have a tendency to want to succumb to their own subjectivity rather than objectivity.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I get that. I understand that.
Speaker 1:So now, what is the one thing, what is the one thing that prophets and apostles have in common with respect to their calling to that office? What do they have in common?
Speaker 6:um, I want to preface this by being controversial, okay. Okay, a few days ago we were talking about the witness and the father witnessing of Jesus. Who's the son Right of jesus? Who's the son right? And I was. I didn't get time to look through scripture, but you know, paul never had a witness. He self-testified on his apostleship and, when you think about it, matthias was, was elected, and it's just so. It's just kind of an interesting dichotomy. So to me, it's both. What they have in common is a calling, and I think it's in the end, you're known by your fruits, it's like. It's kind of like a thing where the Bible says test the prophets and if their prophecies do not work out, are they they render void? Then they're not a prophet at all what?
Speaker 1:what fruits did samuel produce before when he was called? What fruits, what? What fruits predicated samuel being called to be a prophet?
Speaker 6:well, yeah, that's, I mean fruits from after the fact. So if I say, let's say, if I prophesied that the moon's going to turn blood red tonight, right, and it didn't, that's my fruits return void. So are you talking? If you're talking about, prior to becoming a prophet, what I'm?
Speaker 1:asking is. What I'm asking is this yes, sir, what does the prophet and the apostle, what do they have in common in terms of their role in that office? In other words, there's a similarity between the two in how they came to obtain these offices, to hold these offices.
Speaker 6:What is that common thread between them? With regard to that, Well, I agree with I forgot who said it. It's just a calling from God. I don't necessarily think it's from inside you. You know like. It's not like self-elect. Is that what you're getting at? No trick question.
Speaker 1:I'm just asking how they were. What do they have? What does this share as a component of what made them ascend to this office of apostle or prophet? Prophets we know were under the old covenant and apostles are under the new covenant.
Speaker 6:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's the difference. But in terms of how they came into these offices, there is a similarity between both and I'm trying to understand, I'm trying to establish what that commonality is between the two.
Speaker 6:Yeah, To me the commonality is the calling of from God. Just to put it simply. All right, Hopefully I'm not showing my ignorance.
Speaker 1:It's not. It's not like that at all.
Speaker 6:I get you, I get you, I get you.
Speaker 1:What I don't, what I don't want anybody to do, is try to respond based on what they think I'm trying to lead them to. I want you to, I want to get your honest, your honest understanding for what you have been shown in the word of God to to lay hold of. That's all.
Speaker 6:Yeah, no, I just to let you know like I'm pondering all these other questions that come up. So if you throw anything new at me right when I come up, it's like oh, for a second, I need time to compute. So yeah, I just think it's the calling of the Lord in their lives to become that position.
Speaker 1:All right, perfect Mariah, and then Lisa Mariah, go ahead.
Speaker 5:I just wanted to say to our brother Todd that Ananias was a witness that God had chosen, or Jesus Christ had chosen, paul to be a chosen vessel. And Acts 9, 15, he tells Ananias, but the Lord said to him go forth, he is a chosen vessel of mine to bear my name before the Gentiles. Go forth, he is a chosen vessel of mine to bear my name before the Gentiles. So it wasn't only Paul being a witness of himself that he was chosen, but Ananias, the Lord, as well.
Speaker 1:Amen Lisa.
Speaker 7:Hello.
Speaker 1:Hey sister.
Speaker 7:Hey, I don't know how much if I could add, add anything else. I was just going to say they were all handpicked by God. Jesus picked the apostles and their direction was all given directly from God himself. So I don't I don't think there's anything else to add, really.
Speaker 1:Well, the key word that you said there was directly Yep, directly, and that's the key word in your answer that the apostles and the prophets, they all received their call directly from God, directly, directly from God, directly, not you know. So, um, I can't remember, I think it was maybe it was Greg who said the fact that you know that one of the differences, um, um, and this is this is a key difference between people being made evangelists or or missionaries, or pastors. This is something that the, that the church recognizes. The church recognizes the talents of men through their testimony, through their lives and all these kinds of things. But prophets and apostles definitely came into their office through a different channel and that channel was sister, was directly, directly from God himself.
Speaker 1:Now, in terms of the prophets under the old covenant, there was a difference between how a prophet relates to God versus how an apostle related to God. So my next question will be for Candy Girl what is the difference between? What is one of the other differences? I'm looking for a difference now in terms of the calling of a prophet versus an apostle. This one may be a little more difficult to answer and I wouldn't say by design, that's just a fact, but they both, as Lisa stated, were called directly by God. But there is a difference in terms of the. There was a difference in terms of apostles versus prophets, and it has a lot to do with Old Testament or Old Covenant and New Covenant. So, candy Girl, what do you see? This is a tougher question, but the answer is not difficult if you're able to put the pieces together. Candy Girl, what do you think?
Speaker 2:In the Old Testament it came straight from God through different ways of signs what Fire? Fire on the mountain, angels in the garden, angels standing in front of you. It came from those ways in the Old Testament and then in the New Testament with the apostles. It came from Jesus, who was actually God here in the flesh, so God in spirit, so to say, for the prophecy of prophets, and then God in the flesh with the apostles.
Speaker 1:I think you're on the right track. I think you're on the right track here, and especially when you say that the apostles had a direct connection to the Lord Jesus Christ. But so, uh, candy, go ahead and mute your phone, because I'm getting an echo. I don't know what it is. You may be on a speaker or something, so it's an echo. Um so, dt, I want to ask your thoughts on this before I move. I go on with this. What's your perspective on the distinction between the calling, the nature of the calling, between an apostle and a prophet? What was different between the two?
Speaker 8:Okay, because I see everything, every single thing that is done, as being predestined. I can see the only distinction is validation by God. Heroes in this cosmic story for the angels are, and they're the other characters that are supposed to be the bad guys, which he also predestines for them to have that role as well. So the only distinction that I can see is one is validated through him and the proofs that people manifest within their fulfilled prophecies and the consistency within the gospel that they're presenting, everything staying within harmony within those parameters.
Speaker 8:And that's it because everything is predestined, even those who are prepared for destruction. Right.
Speaker 9:Can I jump in?
Speaker 1:Go ahead Greg, Greg and then Ethan Allen.
Speaker 4:All right. Well, I'd say primarily that the prophets and I'm just making really broad strokes, sure Prophets' message was this is what God is going to do, and the message of the apostles was this is what God has done.
Speaker 1:Very good distinction. Very good distinction, very good distinction. Ethan Allen, do you want to add something?
Speaker 9:Yeah, so just a little backdrop. My name my actual name is Dale Hadley. Ethan Allen was a historical Furniture builder. Yeah, Historical patriot. Actually, my family's been here since 1667. My grandfather, Samuel, died at the Battle of Lexington and Concord and my grandfather, Ebenezer, was survived.
Speaker 1:That's good. What do you think about this issue about the prophets and the apostles?
Speaker 9:Well, I don't really know, but here's the story. So I was a correctional officer for the state of Massachusetts for 10 years. During that time he led me in 2017 2017, I don't know if you have a laptop. He led me to do a radio program called strange days unto victory. 5, 90 am the word out of quincy mass what did you say?
Speaker 1:your name was again brother dale hadley dale, okay, so let me. If you don't, if you don't mind, if you don't mind, I want to stay on topic here this is no, this is super topic.
Speaker 9:It's 100% related to what you're speaking about.
Speaker 1:I'll give you some leeway, go ahead.
Speaker 9:All right. So, seven years later, Yehoshua blesses me and tells me how to cure two incurable diseases. My daughters were dying in the womb. Fast forward the video has one million views. It's my top video. Whatever, Go watch it. My daughters were born at 316 and 317. And their measurements were 16.3, 17.3 inches. After that, he tells me go to this mountain and tell people that judgment has come. So, in 2017, he told me to warn people that judgment was coming. Right. Told people, and as I told people things that were to come, they started happening. Seven years later, he tells me come up to this mountain. So, from April until August, I'm coming up to this mountain warning people that the great I am that a judgment has come upon the United States of America.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 9:Let me finish that story.
Speaker 1:No, I can't let you finish right now. I want to ask you a question. Go ahead. I want to ask you a question Are you saying that you are a prophet or an apostle?
Speaker 9:I'm saying this. He tells me to come to this mountain.
Speaker 1:The name of the mountain is Waste Mountain Stand by Stand, by, give it a minute and then I'll let you ask All right, see, I can't deal with that kind of thing, so let's get on back to this. Let's get back on topic. So here's the thing. So Brother Greg made a good point earlier about the prophets speaking about things that were going to happen going to come and apostles speak about things that did happen going to happen, going to come and apostles speak about things that did happen and I got to tell you that wasn't in my notes, but it's so true. It is a very true statement to make and it takes some insight to pick that out. So I appreciate that because it is a significant part of it, and this is what I mean by the blessing that we have here. The blessing that we have here is to be able to contribute to this conversation so that we all gain from it, that we all gain from it and and again, I like, I like when we're involved with these kind of conversations and we're and where we all, including myself, benefit from it, and that was a big thing that I benefited from. So I thank my brother for the contribution, as I am thankful for the contribution that we all make here Now.
Speaker 1:Under the old covenant we had a relationship. The people of Israel had a relationship with God that we would call a theocracy or a theocratic rule, and do you know what I mean by that, jeffrey? Do you know what I mean by theocracy or a theocratic rule, and do you know what I mean by that, jeffrey? Do you know what I mean by theocracy? Brother Jeffrey, you there, mariah.
Speaker 5:You have heard it before, but no All right.
Speaker 1:Does anybody know what I mean when I say theocracy?
Speaker 7:Is it? They were ruled by him.
Speaker 8:Yes.
Speaker 7:They were ruled by God.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's exactly right. They were ruled by God directly. When did that change Lisa? When did that change Lisa? When did that change?
Speaker 7:Well, I would imagine when they started worshiping the other gods, or the false, you know not.
Speaker 1:DT.
Speaker 7:In disobedience maybe.
Speaker 1:DT help my sister out.
Speaker 8:Yes, help me maybe DT help my sister out? Yes, help me. In 1050 BC, at the end of the judges, samuel was the last judge and he appointed Saul, who was a donkey herder at the time, to be the first king. So he was the anointed one of God.
Speaker 1:And why did God give Israel a king? Give Israel a king?
Speaker 7:Candy girl. Do you know why did God give Israel a king when he ruled?
Speaker 1:them directly. Can I try this one? Go for it, sister, go ahead.
Speaker 7:Well, they wanted to be like the other nations. The other nations they wanted to be like the other nations, the other nations.
Speaker 1:They wanted to be like the other nations. That's exactly right, moriah said they begged for one. They did these answers, these books. So they wanted a king. And here's the thing. Yesterday, last night, we talked about when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part is done away with. But what happened under the old covenant was in the reverse. They had that which was perfect, they dealt with God directly, but they asked to resemble the other nations. They don't want to deal with God anymore. They wanted to deal with the king, so they can be like all the other nations. They don't want to deal with God anymore. They wanted to deal with the king, so they can be like all the other nations. And when God gave them what they wanted, he warned them what it was going to be like. But when he gave them what they wanted, they decided to abandon that which was complete and perfect in order to have something that was partial and imperfect in Saul, but not just Saul, but in the monarchy that they had the king, earthly kings. So, basically, when that happened, things started to fall apart rapidly. Things began to fall apart rapidly. Things began to fall apart rapidly.
Speaker 1:Almighty is ruling and reigning in where he, whereby he's dealing and governing directly, communicating directly with his agents, who are, who are typically prophets, who are prophets Now. So you had a theocracy. Now we deal. Now, when we deal with the apostles, the apostles, we have the theocracy more or less being restored, in a manner of speaking. And, brother Jeffrey, are you there? I want to give you a chance, unless you fell asleep while I'm here. I'm right here. So the apostleship there, I want to give you a chance, unless you fell asleep while I'm here. I'm right here. So the apostleship is also, when you think about it, the establishment of, or recognizes the establishment of, the theocracy, sort of being reestablished. Why am I able to say that sort of being reestablished?
Speaker 3:Why am I able to say that, boy, you're really asking the tough questions tonight, aren't you? Honestly, jonathan, I'm not sure. I've got to be honest with you. I'm not really sure.
Speaker 6:Brother Todd, what do you think? Repeat the question because you are really hot, you're on fire tonight man it's like
Speaker 1:repeat the question. All right, hold on, joe. Hold on for a second. So, todd. So here's the question. Under the old covenant we had a. There was a theocracy whereby God dealt with his prophets and the people of Israel. He dealt with them directly. There was an agent that was put in front of the people that God would talk to directly.
Speaker 6:Yes, I had that part All right.
Speaker 1:So what I'm saying is then they went on and they went backwards by asking for a king, which God gave them and gave them so that they could choke on that right yep so with into the new covenant, you have the apostleship that ends up becoming established. There were no apostles until the new covenant, right? So the issue? So the issue is what I'm asking is this what I'm posing is what I'm suggesting is this is that the theocracy, in a manner of speaking, or as it were, was re-established in the new covenant? How?
Speaker 6:well, I mean jesus called him. He, you know um, when they were fishing and the brother went running to the other brother getting them and he called them. He called them by name.
Speaker 1:So then? How could I be? So then? How could I be justified? If I'm justified, how could I be justified in saying that the establishment of a theocracy was restored, so to speak? How could I say that? Was restored, so to speak how could I say that I got bad? Uh, I, I got a feedback on that. Whoever was talking, that was somebody else, uh, sort of getting out of control, but go ahead. Yeah, that's the question uh, how?
Speaker 6:the question is how can I, how does theocracy get us going forward? Is established. Is that what?
Speaker 1:you're getting at. So a theocracy is God's direct rule over his people. Yeah, I got that. I got that All right. So what I'm asking is in the new covenant, where we have apostles, what I'm asking is how can it be said, how can I say justifiably so, that the theocratic, the theocratic rule over god's people has been re-established? How can I say that and have it be true or, at the very least, plausible?
Speaker 6:yeah, you know, when you were reading ephesians 2, when you go past uh 220, it talks about the. You know us, coming together with Christ is as basically the temple, if you will, and so as far as apostleship is concerned, that's out of the way. And now we have a new like theocracy, where I'm not an apostle but I had that personal relationship with Christ. So if you're asking how you're justified in that when you come I know some people don't like this when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, when you become saved, you become the temple to the Lord. He resides in you and the theocracy is self-explanatory at that point.
Speaker 1:All right, lisa. What's your thoughts on this?
Speaker 7:I'm going to say. You know, when Jesus came, he said the kingdom of God is at hand, so repent. When you repent and are born again, we become subject to him. We are under his rule.
Speaker 1:And how is that theocratic? Why is it theocratic? And it's not a trick question.
Speaker 7:Because Jesus is God.
Speaker 1:Huh.
Speaker 7:Because Jesus is God Amen.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's exactly exactly right.