The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
The Holy Spirit is not just a force—He's fully God
The mystery of the Trinity stands as Christianity's most profound revelation of God's nature—and its most commonly misunderstood doctrine. This riveting theological discussion cuts through confusion to reveal how God exists as three distinct persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) while remaining one divine being.
We begin by addressing common misconceptions, particularly from "oneness" theology that conflates Jesus with the Father. By carefully distinguishing between divine "being" (what God is) and divine "personhood" (who God is), we establish a framework for understanding how the Trinity functions without contradiction. The conversation illuminates how Scripture consistently portrays the Holy Spirit with personal attributes—speaking, teaching, comforting, and even interceding for believers with "groanings which cannot be uttered."
Perhaps most fascinating is our exploration of Old Testament trinitarian evidence that many believers overlook. From Genesis where God says "let us make man in our image" to passages where "the LORD rained fire from the LORD out of heaven," we trace how this seemingly New Testament concept actually permeates all of Scripture.
This episode shines particularly when examining Romans 8:26, clarifying how the Holy Spirit's intercession works in believers' lives—not through mystical utterances as some charismatic traditions suggest, but through the Spirit himself communicating our deepest needs when words fail us. The personal testimonies shared reveal how understanding the Trinity transforms our relationship with God from theological abstraction to living reality.
Whether you're a theological novice or seasoned believer, this conversation will deepen your appreciation for Christianity's most distinctive doctrine. The Trinity isn't just something to believe—it's someone to experience. Listen, share, and join the conversation about how Father, Son and Holy Spirit work together in perfect harmony for your salvation.
It's like. Well, first of all, I don't understand what they're trying to argue, but what does that even mean?
Speaker 3:Ask the question again. Ask me again.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you guys know about this, but I've seen these posters where it's like three circles and then one big circle and it's like Jesus is God. Jesus is not the father, the father is Jesus. It's like a never-ending cycle and it's never-ending arguments.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing People have, people have. I always have this thing where I tell people that if you like for me, that if you like, like for me, I'm not the kind of person that wants to sit around and look at people drawing charts and graphs and and all these kinds of things. It just annoys me, um, and I think I know what you're talking about. But let's, let's, let's make it simple, all right, cause this is only going to be simple to somebody whom, who has been, who's been converted, who knows who, who god is, who's been saved and born again. God, the is. The essence of god is, is a composition of three persons father, son and holy spirit. These three are what make up and comprise what God is. The essence of God is Father, son and Holy Spirit. The Godhead is Father, son and Holy Spirit. Jesus is not the Father, jesus is not the Son, the Son is not the Father. So they are all three distinct persons. In theological terms, they are three separate hypostases. Remember that word, because if you ever hear it, that's what it means. It just means it's a fancy way of saying three persons, and these three persons are what make god the entity, if I can use that word. The entity of god is father, son and holy spirit. Any one of persons not part of the equation, then you're not talking about God any longer. And I'll say something else.
Speaker 3:The thing that makes one of the aspects that makes Christianity so unique from every other religion, from every other religion, is the Holy Spirit. It's the one that really makes our religion different. Because you will talk about God, and when a lot of people talk about God in Christian circles, god is often the Father, is often who is meant. Most people are not and I can't speak for everybody, but a lot of people. They don't distinguish between the persons. But when you refer to God, you're talking about the totality of what makes God God, which is Father, son and Holy Spirit. So when you, when you, like I said, when you pull one of these out of the equation, it's no longer God. But here's what makes ours different.
Speaker 3:No one's gonna argue with you about God in the sense of when you, when you talk about God, even the unbeliever believes. They have a understanding of what you're talking about. So, for instance, if a Muslim mentions Allah, you know, even Christians might agree with some of them and say, okay, you're talking about God and we're talking about God, but we're not. We're not Now. We have three persons in what the Bible teaches us, and we know that each one of those persons does something different. And each one of those persons, when you highlight specifically what their administration does, in other words, what the administration of the Father, the administration of the Son and the administration of the Holy Spirit when you highlight what their chief roles and what they do in our salvation, this is what frustrates people. For instance, nobody likes the idea that God elects those who are saved, and I'm talking about not just unbelievers, I'm talking about especially Christians.
Speaker 3:You, the majority of the people who will fight you over the election of the father, the fact that he elects, you're gonna get all your blowback from people who call themselves Christians. When you go to somebody else I got you next, greg. When you go to somebody else, I got you next, greg. When you go to somebody else like Islam, and you call Christ God and you say that not only is he God but that he died for our sins, you kind of piss off every religion Muslims, judaism, everybody but the Holy Spirit. That's a whole different ballgame. He, in another way, really distinguishes the our God from all other gods, and then you put these three together and it makes the world go into a spiritual frenzy. They don't like it, brother Greg, go ahead.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so banana. So when we talk about God, we have to. You know, we got to maintain a couple of categories and keep them clear and distinct. The first category is being, in other words, you know, the being of God, what God is right, and person, who, the who. So there's the being and there's the person. So when we say Jesus is God, jesus, the person is divine. When we say Jesus is God, when we say Jesus is God, we're using God in the sense of being, in the sense of what Jesus is. The person of Jesus is divine and possesses all the qualities of deity. He's eternal, omniscient, omnipresent. You know all those he's creator right, all those he's creator right.
Speaker 4:What people often do, like the oneness people, what they do is they conflate those two categories and when they say Jesus is God, they say the person of Jesus is the person of the Father. They fail to maintain the distinction between person and being, if that makes sense. And in the same way, when we say the Holy Spirit is God, what we mean is the person of the Holy Spirit is deity. He is fully divine, that's his nature and, of course, same with the Father. However, the three persons are distinct. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. So the one being of God eternally and simultaneously exists in those three persons.
Speaker 3:Makes sense Banana Pancakes.
Speaker 1:And I definitely need to study up more on that to find out even why they think it's important to fight people about it. But I always, no matter what, I have confidence that Holy Spirit is fully God, jesus is fully God and God is fully God Because I see it in the Old Testament, deuteronomy I don't know how to say that Deuteronomy there's a verse that says and the Lord is one. There's a verse that says and the lord is one, and this isn't in no way contradicting that. Later on we we see the holy spirit written more about in the new testament, because I see it all over the place in the old testament, you know the burning bush and then even, uh, god in a person at least.
Speaker 1:I haven't studied this like with any kind of professionalism, but when a person came to talk to Abraham, you know, when he was camping out, and Sarah laughed like, okay, but then we see there, god in the flesh. So it's like I see it everywhere, but I don't. I guess I need to further investigate, like as we're saying about the person of the father and the person of Jesus, because now it makes sense yeah, jesus can't be the person of the father because he was the person of the son here on Earth.
Speaker 3:Well, you know and in Banana Pancakes I told you I was listening to some of your, some of your posts and whatever and my perception is that you have a good grasp in your mind of how to assess these things and the fact that you are looking at the Old Testament, seeing these things. Keep doing that, because most people don't they really don't and so you definitely have a good, a good understanding, and I encourage you to keep doing that investigation and I definitely encourage you to reach out to people here or myself or whatever, and we could chop it up anytime you want to, and I just want to encourage you to keep doing that. But what I would say this don't get too caught up in a lot of these people's arguments and stuff like that. Caught up in a lot of these people's arguments and stuff like that Insist on being around folks like you see here and there are others, not just here, but elsewhere Well, they will lay down and do what I consider to provide you a systematic approach to these things, and that's the purpose of me going through these verses and asking people to find the personhood of the Holy Spirit, so that it's not me saying it, it's people reading it for themselves and discovering it.
Speaker 3:So don't be, you know. So don't be discouraged. Be encouraged by what the Spirit of God is working inside of you. Don't listen to these people. It's good to hear it, it's good to hear it and understand where they're coming from. But appeal to God on your own and continue in the studies that you do and be a part of these conversations and ask these questions. I have no doubt the Holy Spirit will show you, because you definitely got a good head on your shoulders, that's for sure. May go ahead sister.
Speaker 6:I really like that. Banana pancakes mentioned that, yeah, and see like there's two chapters. There's so much in the Old Testament showing the triune nature of God. But I'm going to read you a verse, okay, and this is. I encourage everybody to go read Genesis, chapter 18 and 19, and find out who these three men are. It's going to blow you away. But there's certain things that men can't do right, that only God can do, and so in reading these two chapters, there will be a truth that is unveiled to you if you search the scripture. But I'm just going to read one verse in 19 that hopefully will light everybody up. To go read this In 18 or 19? It's 18 and 19. It's both. It's super fire. But I'm just going to read this one from 19,. Okay, okay, and this is going to be verse 24. This one from 19. Okay, okay, and this is going to be verse 24. So this is when um Lot was going to Sodom and Gomorrah and um Abraham, um, these three men appeared to Abraham in chapter 18 and 19. Um, it's, it's going into the same with Lot, but if we read verse 24, into the same with lot. But if we read verse 24, listen to what it says. It says and this is all over scripture it says then the lord rained brimstone and fire on sodom and gomorrah from the lord out of the heavens. So he overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities and what grew around them. So here we have the lord raining brimstone and fire on sodom and gomorrah from the lord out of the heavens.
Speaker 6:I'm going to show you one more in Exodus, chapter 34. This is just super cool stuff that you see, that gives you these beautiful little nuggets to let you just meditate on scripture about. So if we go to Genesis, chapter 34. Genesis or Exodus I mean Exodus, sorry, exodus chapter 34. It says so Moses made haste and bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped. Then he says If now I have found grace in your sight, o Lord, let my Lord I pray, go among us, even though we are stiff neck people, and pardon our inequity and our sin and take us as your inheritance. So hold on, let me back up. It says if now I have found grace in your sight, oh Lord, if now I have found grace in your sight, oh Lord, let my Lord I pray, go among us, even though we are stiff neck people and pardon our inequity and our sin and take us from your inheritance. I'm going to give you one more, just to think Genesis, chapter three, 22. Here's one more, and here's where we see all of this stuff. If you go and we start searching scriptures and looking, you see some of the most beautiful stuff that people don't speak about.
Speaker 6:Now listen to what it says, verse 22, chapter three. It says then the Lord God said behold, the man has become like one of us, to no good and evil, like we see all of these things, but yet people are still teaching heresy, as if they don't read scripture. It is the. I'm reading a book right now and it's called the forgotten Trinity, and I want to read you an expert an excerpt of it when it talks about the blessing of the Trinity. Listen to what it says. It says a true and accurate knowledge of the Trinity is a blessing in and of itself. Any revelation of God's truth is an act of grace, of course, but the Trinity brings to us a blessing far beyond the worth normally assigned to believers today. Why? Because, upon reflection, we discover that the Trinity is the highest revelation God has made of himself to his people, to his people. What and we? But there's certain points in this that cause faith, points at which we have to stop and say I believe Lord and continue Right.
Speaker 3:You know, I believe Lord and continue.
Speaker 6:Right. You know, going in these scriptures, man, it comes alive and you start to see these things. But I encourage everybody in the panel, everybody in the chat go read Genesis, chapter 18 and 19. You know what?
Speaker 3:It's so funny because one of the reasons why I love doing what we do here is because you know you always hear people say. You always hear people say, when you make a statement and you have a supporting verse for the statement, or you have a verse and you provide a supporting response to it, people will accuse you of cherry picking, a cherry picking. But so far we've, pretty much tonight, have gone quite a few places and I've heard people tell me you know, oh, you know, you guys that think like you, you guys you got. All you do is throw out a bunch of verses and whatever right, you put out a bunch of verses, you get ridiculed for having too many. You put out one. You're cherry picking, you know.
Speaker 3:But the thing about it is you need to be able to put the whole word together, because you will know the truth when you see its cohesion, because the word of God in totality is a cohesive unit. There's no contradictions, and when you see something that is clear in one area, then you have to find out how to apply what is unclear in light of it and so, but but so to think about it is always, always be prepared Just a general exhortation to be able to show continuity throughout the scripture as much as you can, as much as you can, and become and devour the scriptures, like I know many of you do. Devour the scriptures. Continuity throughout the scripture as much as you can, as much as you can, and become and devour the scriptures, like I know many of you do. Devour the scriptures and find consistency, find God, find the Father, find this Holy Spirit, find the Son everywhere in the word of God as you read it. Candy, go ahead.
Speaker 5:So, like in second Peter, chapter one, verse 21, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the what the holy ghost right that's right, and that's how they and that's how they spoke and and see, this is what we have to do.
Speaker 3:I can sit down here and I can put down these notes and then come on here and go live.
Speaker 3:Candy's bringing up something, mariah's throwing something out, greg is throwing something out, everybody is throwing these things out, because what happens is the mind starts getting triggered, especially when somebody you have an understanding about someplace in the scripture, what it means, and then when somebody else throws out their understanding of the very same thing in a different verse that you didn't contemplate, now you're extending their ability to you know, to tie together all these important truths that are laid out everywhere in the word of God, because you know, it's just a beautiful thing. So I appreciate being able to have the blessing to be here and to have all of you throwing the word of God out, like you are, because I love it. Because then what happens? The Bible study itself starts to take over, and just you know what happens. The bible study itself starts, starts to take over and, just you know, people start teaching, everybody, everybody does. So I appreciate it, I'm glad, I'm glad to be a part of this group.
Speaker 3:There's one person so far I haven't picked on yet, because she got in here a little bit later than the rest of us, mariah, so I got a few questions for you, sister yes, sir all right, so so now we've been talking about I know you heard some of it because you were, I saw you in the comments we're talking about, um, figuring out where in these verses, where, with the verse itself, indicates the personhood of the holy spirit. So if you don't mind, I'm gonna throw out a few of them for you, okay. So 1 Timothy 4.1 says this Now the Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Where is the personhood of the Holy Spirit in this verse?
Speaker 2:I'm expressly speaking.
Speaker 3:Expressly speaking. Expressly speaking, so people, whoever's listening. This is another one of those verses. 1 Timothy 4.1. Let me give you another one Revelation, chapter 2, verse 7. Because these are speaking about personal actions of the Holy Spirit, his actions. So, in Revelation 2, verse 7. He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches. To him that overcomes, will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God. What is it, mariah? Where's the personhood of the Holy Spirit here?
Speaker 2:Him speaking to the churches.
Speaker 3:Him speaking to the churches. All right, let me keep it going. Luke, chapter 12, verse 12. For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say, shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say what is it Him teaching? Him teaching you. We're on a roll. Let me give you a couple more John 14, verse 26. But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever.
Speaker 2:I have said unto you Teaching you all things. Yes, and helping us remember.
Speaker 3:Helping us remember exactly Two more Acts, chapter 13, verse two, as they ministered to the Lord and fasted.
Speaker 2:The Holy Ghost said separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Speaker 3:Calls people and he is speaking. He's the holy ghost said right now. Here's the last one in this category, of the category of the holy spirit's actions romans 8, verse 26. Likewise, the spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for, as we ought, but the Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered he is an intercessor for us and he makes utterance, he prays for us.
Speaker 2:Is that what he said?
Speaker 3:I can't yeah, let me. Let me read it one more time, please. Likewise, the spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for, as we ought, but the spirit itself makes intercession for us, with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Speaker 2:He helps us by interceding for us.
Speaker 3:And there's one other place in there, in the first part of that verse Likewise the spirit does what Helps us, Helps our infirmities infirmities yes he helps our weaknesses and he makes intercession for us.
Speaker 3:Now, by way of, by way of, of, uh, a slight deviation, but I don't want to turn this into another. I don't want to go another direction with this, but what I do want to say here, in this particular place, because this verse is often taken when it says but the spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Many people in the charismatic and Pentecostal movement take this to be speaking in tongues, with some secret, private language to God. For the life of me, I don't understand how they come up with that when it specifically says well, let me ask this question, let me ask everybody this question. It says but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. So how do we know? This cannot be talking about speaking in tongues. Anybody, it's the Holy.
Speaker 6:Spirit that is interceding with groanings.
Speaker 3:So how do we know? But here's what I'm asking how do we know that that part of the verse is not talking about speaking in tongues, because we don't need to say anything.
Speaker 6:Because, it says it's not uttered.
Speaker 5:Well, Meg's.
Speaker 3:Wait, hold on. Hold on One second, Todd. Go ahead and say it.
Speaker 6:Because it says it's not uttered.
Speaker 3:It's not expressed. That's right Wordless.
Speaker 5:Grownings Wordless.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 5:Well, I was thinking of the verse where he says when you don't know what to pray, he knows your heart, so he intercesses and does it for you.
Speaker 3:Basically, but that's the first part. It says likewise the Holy Spirit Helps our infirmities. For we know, we know not what we should pray for as we ought okay, so that's.
Speaker 5:You were in that verse, right?
Speaker 3:so it's in the same verse, but in the second part you have the charismatics and pentecostals that say that, that, that that this verse proves that there's a secret language that is between christians and god that the devil can't frustrate or get in the way of. But it says clearly here that the spirit makes intercession for us with unutterable groanings.
Speaker 5:See, I think that's when you don't know and you're like going through whatever you're going through and you don't know what to say, so you're just making noises like oh God, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, but that's just nutty, because I mean it's just somebody that don't know what to say based on what they're feeling, how to put it in words. But the holy spirit knows what what, so he's intercessing for us. But yeah, that's speaking into that's that that? Yeah yeah I mean.
Speaker 2:My translation says the spirit himself. So it's not saying that it's through us that he is making these utterance, but himself. And, and sometimes he's speaking directly on our behalf. Go ahead, sister, he is oh yeah, he, you're right, he is.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, you're right, he is. That's exactly what's happening. It is the Holy Spirit himself making that intersection for us. And here's the thing he does this even if we aren't able to express ourselves. That's what it's talking about, because you can have in your own heart this, this, this frustration, this angst there's. There are many times where you know what you're thinking, you know what you feel, but you can't quite put it out there the way you want to. But the spirit of god is in you and he knows and the scripture tells us that he knows what we have need of, even before we think to ask.
Speaker 5:Amen, that's what I was just saying about the groanings and stuff. You don't know what to say, so he does it for you. I mean, you don't even have to come at it. Yeah, he just knows because he already knows.
Speaker 6:So, brother Jonathan, somebody asked him the question in the comments. Jesus is God, so the Holy spirit is Jesus, right? That's ridiculous.
Speaker 3:That's ridiculous.
Speaker 4:They're conflating being in person again.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Now see here's Jonathan. Let me ask you this, because that's so. I want to say this and I don't mean to sound bad, so if anybody takes offense to it, I mean just say it sister, don't qualify it, just say it pray about it, just pray about it. But how can one say they have the holy spirit and have been saved to be saying things like that, when the word is right there and if the holy spirit is the one who helps them to understand and guides them?
Speaker 3:people listen. Here's the thing when people say this kind of nonsense, I don't even waste my time, because it's just nonsense and I'm sure the person may really truly believe that. You know what I mean. So it's not a slam on the person. It's a slam on what the person. It's a slam on what they're saying, because there is no way you can read anywhere in the scriptures and come to that conclusion. There's nowhere in the scriptures. See, here's the thing when the word of God is understood and the truth is really conveyed, it cannot be gainsaid, in other words, it cannot be frustrated. It will always be consistent. That statement is ridiculous. Jesus Christ is not the Holy Spirit and that's obviously a person who is part of the oneness movement. It's silly and it's ridiculous and it's not taught anywhere in scripture.
Speaker 4:No, it would be like this Be like I am human Right. Jonathan is human, therefore I am Jonathan.
Speaker 3:Right, this is just crazy.
Speaker 5:But if the body of Christ is supposed to be like-minded, one mind, one accord, one body, like-minded, one accord, I guess that's. What I don't understand is, I don't see the Holy Spirit making him think that what he's thinking that's not in scripture, it's right there. I just here's the thing.
Speaker 3:This just I don't. Here's the thing. This is what we talked about.
Speaker 5:Not yet, and I'm not saying that in bed, I just it's the confusion, you know there's you. The Holy spirit will discern the someone confused versus someone who's just believing something.
Speaker 3:Here's what you need to understand Christians are not confused. Non-christians are confused.
Speaker 5:There, you said it. You just answered my whole question.
Speaker 3:You know, don't waste your time, sorry, don't waste your time being frustrated with nonsense Like this person says. So you have three gods? No, we don't. This whole message has been about one God, that's in three persons. But see, it takes the spirit of God to make somebody understand what's really happening. If you read in one place, if you read in like.
Speaker 3:So far, every verse that we've talked about has been dealing with the divinity of the Holy Spirit. No one pretty much argues about the divinity and the godhood of the Father. Most of Christianity don't argue the divinity and the godhood of the Father. Most of Christianity don't argue the divinity and the godhood of Christ. But the Holy Spirit becomes another complex issue that a lot of people, even who claim to be Christian, don't really spend a lot of time in. But they may know, but only ungodly people who call themselves Christians will believe that by saying that the Holy Spirit and the Son of God and the Father are three gods, that is something that a wicked person believes if they call themselves Christian.
Speaker 3:And so what I'm trying to tell people don't waste your time dealing with this nonsense, because these kind of people all they will want to try to do is twist you up in knots over something silly and ridiculous when you know, plainly, I'm willing to sit, because me and meg were talking the other day and she was like, well, you know, I think one of the things that we should do that would help people is put these notes out there. Anybody who wants my notes with these verses that all show the divinity of the Holy Spirit and, on a later date, all the verses that I will show that show the divinity of the Lord, the son of God and the same with the father, I will gladly send it. Gladly send it so that you can be helped to the best that I can help you. Put them out, put shut the mouths of these people with all this nonsense, because it's nonsense, and you don't have to waste your time because it's just what we talked about last night, remember, remember. This is who we were before we came to what we are now. We were no different than these people who couldn't see it, but this is something only the Holy Spirit can show you. I agree, only the Holy Spirit can show you this.
Speaker 3:Greg, were you going to say something or did I cut you off? I'm not sure. Were you going to say something, brother?
Speaker 4:No, but I could Go ahead, go ahead, you off. I'm not sure were you gonna say something, brother. No, but I could go ahead, go ahead. And I've just I've seen a couple of people put in the comments first john 5, 7, and you know, love you guys, but not a good, not a good place to go. It's a. It's a highly unlikely that 1 John 5-7 is actually scripture and if you go up against an educated Muslim or whatever, they'll rip you to shreds with that. So, just for your own benefit, learn other scriptures to defend the Trinity, besides 1 John 5, 7, because it's probably not original.
Speaker 3:Right, some people do make that argument. But even then, when you look at the whole of scripture, you can't come into any other conclusion than the conclusion that we've all been coming to and emphasizing improving tonight. It just, it just can't. So I got two more sections which I'll be really fast about it. I'll be really fast about it, about the personhood of the Holy Spirit. So now I'm talking about just the personal characterization of the Holy Spirit. So we see in the word of God four times that where we see the word comforter being used, where it is referring to the Holy Spirit as our comforter. Now here's the thing the Holy Spirit, even the Lord Jesus Christ himself, says we are, or the Holy Spirit is our comforter. Now, there are a lot of inanimate things, that there are a lot of inanimate things Clothes, blankets, towels, socks these things bring us comfort, you know. However, however, it is different bring us comfort. However, it is different. It is different when we talk about the comforter, because the comforter is making a reference to a person, a being, an entity that brings comfort. That is not just like you get from a blanket a coat, a hat, whatever it is, earmuffs, whatever it has, but the holy spirit is a living person and only a living person can be a comforter.
Speaker 3:Now, in hebrews 10, 15, I think. I don't know. I think somebody may have read this verse. I put it on my list but it was where of the holy, the holy ghost also is a witness to us. For after that he has said before. But so my point here is because I didn't go read the whole verse but the whole point here is that the holy spirit is also a witness to us, and I think it was meggan talked about the witness aspect. The holy spirit if an inanimate force or power or energy, there is no possible way that the holy spirit can give a testimony or give a or be a witness. But we also see in romans 8, 16. It says that the spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. And this is interesting because when it says here that the spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, this term is also forensic in the sense that it denotes the supplying of valid knowledge.