The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
Divine Witness: The Holy Spirit's Legal Testimony in Our Lives
What if God Himself took the witness stand to testify that you are His child? This profound forensic imagery from Romans 8:16 anchors our exploration of the Holy Spirit's personhood—not as an impersonal force but as the third person of the Trinity.
Through careful examination of Scripture, we uncover compelling evidence that the Holy Spirit possesses all attributes of personhood: He teaches, comforts, guides, speaks, and bears witness. Jesus' promise to send "another Comforter" reveals the Spirit as distinct from yet similar to Christ Himself. We explore the significance of masculine pronouns used for the Spirit in the original Greek text, challenging the notion that He is merely an impersonal power or energy.
The discussion takes fascinating turns as we examine the Holy Spirit's role in creation and His ongoing ministry in believers' lives. Job 33:4 declares, "The Spirit of God has made me," revealing His divine creative power. We also discover how even Satan's mockery in Revelation—with his counterfeit trinity of dragon, beast, and false prophet—inadvertently confirms the truth of God's triune nature.
Most powerfully, we see how understanding the Holy Spirit as a person transforms our relationship with Him. No longer do we merely access divine power; we cultivate intimate fellowship with the Divine Person who dwells within us. This relationship produces the fruit of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control—as we keep in step with Him.
Whether you've long understood the Trinity or are questioning these concepts for the first time, this conversation offers fresh insights into the person and work of the Holy Spirit. Join us in discovering how the Spirit's testimony changes everything about our identity and relationship with God.
evidence and legal proof that we are, that the holy spirit bears witness. So when you so, when you talk about witness, it's almost like someone's on the stand in a courtroom, and that's what he means by being forensic. That the holy spirit is this it bears witness, with our spirit, that we are the children of God. So imagine God himself, the Holy Spirit, being on the stand giving a testimony and a witness in your defense that you are a child of God. That's what this is saying in Romans 8, 16. And when you think about it, it's powerful because that's what it means. It is speaking in a legal sense, in a legal sense. And so for him to be giving evidence and legal proof that you are a child of God, then this can only be said, obviously, this can only be said by an intelligent agent who is capable of this, of discharging this kind of an office, in other words, as a witness and a testimony. And so Romans 8, 16 is really a powerful context, because he is saying that the Holy Spirit gives that witness and that testimony, which is consistent with what Sister Meg was saying earlier. And the last one I have in this personal characterization is in 1 Corinthians 6, verse 11, where it says and such were some of you, but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the spirit of our God, justified by the two. So that is the last section that I wanted to have to speak about on the personal characterization, and then I have one last area before I close Just four verses or three verses, but first I want to say this close just four verses, or three verses, but first I want to say this in when you in the new testament, in the new testament, when you read the spirit, more often than not the word is comes from a, the greek word pneuma, and pneuma in english is translated spirit, and so, and the reason why I bring this up because, like I said, I don't normally like to bring up the greek, because you know a lot of people just use it to make it sound like they, they studied greek and whatever but it's important here because when you read um, when you read pneuma, it is often used in what's called the neuter gender sense, meaning it's neutral. If it's in a neuter gender, it's neutral, meaning not masculine, not feminine. However, when it comes to the Holy Spirit in the New Testament it is used in the masculine gender, in the masculine gender meaning that it's not neuter. Now, if you were going to, if you were going to go around trying to make people believe that the Holy Spirit was just some impersonal it, this force, this power, this energy, then most likely the word be used in a neuter sense and not the masculine sense. So just for the Greek nerds out there who are interested in that, I'm throwing that out there.
Speaker 1:But you see, in John 14, verse 26, jesus says but the comforter, the comforter which is the Holy Spirit, which is the holy spirit, the holy ghost whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance. That I said unto you, and this was a verse that I used and that I had mariah uh point out, where it is clear that the holy spirit, um, is addressed. But here, here I wanna put an emphasize on the personal pronoun aspect of it, where the Spirit of God has been addressed by personal pronouns. So in this verse it says that he shall teach you all things. In John 16, verse seven, it says nevertheless, I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you. Jesus says that I leave, that I go away, because if I do not go away the comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, but if I depart I will send him unto you. I will send him unto you, which is what Jesus says.
Speaker 1:Now, for those of you who were in that conversation that we had the other day where we talked about the word if and since, here's another one of those passages where if is used in the sense of the word, since S-I-N-C-E, in other words, since S-I-N-C-E. In other words, jesus says for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you, but if or since I depart, I will send him unto you. And then the last word before my conclusion John 14, 16,. And I will pray the father and he shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you. Now let me ask, let me see who can I ask this question to Mariah? Let me ask you I'm picking on you tonight, sister In John 14, verse 16, I want you to tell me here also where you see the personal nature of the Holy Spirit in this verse. You ready?
Speaker 2:Mariah, you ready, all right, you said John 14, 16,.
Speaker 1:John 14, 16. Ok, I will pray the father and he shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever. So what part of this verse indicates to you the personhood of the Holy Spirit?
Speaker 2:He's able to abide with someone forever. Actually, I had to think of that part.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's true too.
Speaker 2:But there's another word I'm looking at, but that's true I was working my way back that he can abide with somebody forever and that he is a helper.
Speaker 1:Helper. But there's another word I'm looking for in here, Because it says I will pray the Father and he shall give you what another saying that there is that there is a distinction from what the father will do yes jesus, and that what the spirit is going to do so who was the first comforter?
Speaker 2:The first comforter is Jesus. When he came, and then he's saying that he will send you another kind of himself that is like himself, but it's not the same, it's another one.
Speaker 1:It's another one. Does everybody get that Fire?
Speaker 5:Fire. Right, that is fire dude. I love that.
Speaker 1:I will give you another comforter. You know the father. I will pray the father. Christ says I'm going to pray to the father and he shall give you another comforter. You have me now, but it's needful for me to go that my father, who I'm going to ask, send you another comforter to replace me.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, let me read my conclusion. My conclusion will be a quote from my favorite theologian, john Owen. He says this by all these testimonies, we have fully confirmed what was designed to be proved by them, namely that the Holy Spirit is not listen to this that the Holy Spirit is not a quality, as some speak, residing in the divine nature, not a mere imitation of virtue and power from God, not the acting of the power of God in and unto our sanctification, but a holy, intelligent subsistence or person. And that is my conclusion Now. That's my conclusion.
Speaker 1:Now I want to say one last thing before I go to my next and last phase, which is I go around and give everybody their last, their last say, because my brothers mentioned that first, first John, five, seven, about it not being in the original text. I, I have heard that before, I've studied that many years before and I don't hold that same position and I just want to bring that out there. But I do understand the arguments that were made in defense of what my brother, greg, was saying. But I do want to make it clear it is not a position I espouse, although I do know there are many theologians who do just as there are. I believe there's a section in Greg you can help me out, I think the last several verses of Mark 16. There are a lot of people who say it's not part of the original manuscripts and I also understand their arguments there as well.
Speaker 1:So I just want to make it clear that there are these arguments that are made for certain parts of the scripture and there's merit to them, and there's merit on both sides of it, and I just want to make sure that that this is something that you should look into yourself if you want to get verification. I have a tendency to espouse what's there and um, but I do understand the arguments that were made in opposition to that. So I just say that for people who might get irate about these things.
Speaker 6:Yeah, don't even get me going about the woman caught in adultery.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another thing too, and I get it. I get it. But what I want to try to do is, you know, because here's the thing, Greg, I think I think that this would also be something good for us to talk about as to why these conclusions that people have come to in from an apologetic standpoint, and deal with that. But but anyway, and I think it'll be good for us to find a way I do know that you say a lot of things that that have a lot of merit, that I'm sure a lot of people have never heard before it, that I'm sure a lot of people have never heard before, and I want to bring it into them in a way. I'd like to bring it into a way where it can be treated on a, on a for lack of a better expression on an academic level.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's like a whole. It's a whole thing, it's a whole enchilada.
Speaker 1:And so I want to, you know, you know, so, yeah, so I don't say that to disparage you what you're saying or not, because I just want to put it out there that this is some of these things are hotly debated by great minds, as you know, and so here would be a good exercise anyway.
Speaker 6:Pretend it's not there. Pretend it's not there and find other ways to come up with the Trinity from Scripture.
Speaker 1:Right and that to me, and see that right. There is the point you should know. Nobody should ever have to, nobody should ever have to rely on a single verse to prove anything in the Scripture. Generally speaking, every doctrine, that is, that is taught in the word of God, every significant one, especially when it comes to salvation, should be provable anywhere in the Bible.
Speaker 1:And remember everybody, paul and the apostles taught the gospel before the New Testament was written, and this is something that we cannot forget, lose sight of when Paul talked about his gospel, there was no New Testament written when he talked about it. So he was able to prove the gospel and teach the gospel from the old covenant scriptures, and this is what is important. So, yes, there may be a lot of controversy around a given verse or a given passage, but it doesn't mean that you can't understand the truth throughout the entirety of the scripture, because they are, it's a cohesive unit and it's a blessed masterpiece of divinity that God has given us his word. So with that, I'm gonna ask everybody for their last word, and I'll start with you, brother Greg. I'll start with you, last word.
Speaker 6:Greg. Sorry, Greg. Oh, okay, I think Meg wanted to go first.
Speaker 1:Well, you go and she can go next.
Speaker 6:Fair enough, All right. So I'm going to try to give my best 60-second doctrine of the Trinity.
Speaker 1:You can have 63 seconds if you want 63 seconds.
Speaker 6:There is 63 seconds. There is one god amen. Monotheism, right, the father is identified as god, the son is identified as god and the holy spirit is identified as god in scripture. Okay, and we see these three divine persons interact with one another in real time in scripture. So you know, you can't have Clark Kent and Superman in the same room at the same time. Right, the there, since these three divine persons, namely the father, son, holy spirit, interact and communicate with one another in real time. That means that they are not the same person, but they share the same being, right, they share all the omni properties, they are all eternal, they are all uncaused and uncreated, they are non-contingent, they, they exist in and of themselves, but god has eternal, the one. God has eternally and simultaneously existed in three persons, namely the father, the son, the holy spirit brother, absolutely sister, lisa you there.
Speaker 7:I'm here, oh, I think. Do you want to let? Meg wants to go.
Speaker 1:I think she's got something really cool to say and then I can go. Meg and then Lisa. Sorry about that. Meg Go ahead.
Speaker 5:Hey, I'll tell you what. This is what I'm going to do. Everybody else go. I'm going to go last because I got a nugget.
Speaker 1:Uh-oh, nugget, nuggets.
Speaker 2:I'll go last.
Speaker 5:Is that coming to happy me?
Speaker 8:Yes, it does Go ahead, Lisa.
Speaker 7:So I'm just going to end you guys, with John 16. You may have read it there were so many scriptures tonight but I just want to read it again. John 16, I mean John 16, verse 13,. When the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears, he will speak and he will declare to you the things that are to come. So I my suggestion for anyone who doesn't believe, I would pray on this and ask him to show you. He says right here he will guide you into all truth and that's the only way you're going to get it.
Speaker 7:You blessed everybody. I love you all. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1:God bless Lisa Mariah. Last word, Thank you. Yes, bless Lisa Mariah last word.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yes, sir. I'm so happy that I wasn't too naked at all, so all the nuggets you guys shared, I'm so thrilled about it. I actually just did a study on this very thing as well. But I want to read John 6-3 and follow up with Job, and the thing is is a lot of people don't really see the Holy Spirit within the creation as well, you know. So it says John 3, 6. I mean John 3 is on all of our minds.
Speaker 2:John 6, 63. It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe. So we go to Job 33, 4. It says the spirit of God has made me and the breath of life of the almighty gives me life. So I just think that it's cool because we can see all three in participation. I know a lot of people go to you know genesis one, two, where the spirit moved upon the uh, uh, hovered above the waters and stuff. But it's really nice to see that the, the actual creation, and we know that breath of life is that spirit, the spirit of God as well. So I'm blessed by this. Thank you guys, so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks, sister, pleasure to have you here, as always. Brother, church of the Firstborn. Are you there Because I know his yeah, I was here.
Speaker 4:I didn't know if you were able to hear, okay, the foreshadowing, when Christ says I'm the comforter. The foreshadowing was in Isaiah 40, verse 1. Comfort ye, comfort ye my people. So Christ is the first comforter to come, because he's the first preeminence in all things. Then the follow up, as we see, david was forbidden to build the temple. David represented Christ, who purchased the living stones, which is you, the elect.
Speaker 4:But the one who comes to do the building was Solomon, representing the Holy Spirit in the days of peace. The building with Solomon representing the Holy Spirit in the days of peace, when God made peace with his people through the blood sacrifice of his son. We obtained peace through him. So that is what brought the comforter, the second one, the vicar Paraclete, to us to guide us, as Eliezer, the chief servant of Abraham, brought Rebecca to Isaac, representing Christ. So this is the job of the Holy Spirit to edify us, bring us to perfection, maturity, and this he has great joy for the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom rejoices. He rejoices that you are gaining full knowledge of the truth, of who Jesus and the Father is Amen, brother, and you know what?
Speaker 1:Let me tell you something. I am so sorry I didn't bring you in earlier, but it was showing that you didn't have a connection.
Speaker 4:Yes, every time I come onto your channel because of much truth, or anytime I put a like. For example, today I put a post out, my wife, 14 times put a comment. Tiktok refused to put it up there. Wow, yes. And then I went on and made another comment and then it showed, but 14 times it didn't come out. And when I come on your thing yesterday you had echo, I can hear you If you was in Houston Texas every time you said said something. It said it 1830 times. Then it was. I said what is this? Yeah, it was messing the evil spirit, messing the connection.
Speaker 1:If you come, if you come up in a live and if I don't call you, say something because there's a reason, because I don't ignore anybody.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, I try to be a good student. You wait until you're called upon, then you give your answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but yeah. So I appreciate you and I'll tell you something you bring up a lot of things by way of you know you, you show a lot of things that in like, especially in the old testament, that that are that prefigure, that are prefigures, and I love that and I, I want to, I want to, I want to pick your brain about some sources that you might use to to bring some of these things out. I like the stuff you bring out. Okay, I see where you come here from, so, if you don't mind, send me, send me a link or a message to some of the things that you bring out, because I like, I like where you're coming from, uh, and so that's an area that I like, I really like to look into. I love seeing those old testament allusions to things that we find out in the new, so I appreciate that okay, well, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely, brother Todd last word.
Speaker 9:Yes, sir, a couple of things. First, my aunt, who is a nun, has Alzheimer's and I haven't been on your live for a while because I've been tending to her and witnessing to her and now advocating in court for her next week. So if my brothers and sisters in this group could pray for me in your prayer time and pray that God's will would be done in the situation, I would appreciate that.
Speaker 1:You don't even have to ask twice for that brother.
Speaker 9:Now. Thank you, I really appreciate it. It's you know, I've witnessed to her it's caused a lot of problems. You know I try to share that before that when you become a believer, born again Christian, that you know it creates consternation when everybody's Catholic or Lutheranutheran or whatever you know. So, uh, I appreciate your part, uh, with that. With that said, I was asked well, oh, that a quick question.
Speaker 1:So you said you're going to court. Are you going? Are you fighting to be conservative, or something like that guardianship.
Speaker 9:Yeah, some, uh, somebody filed for guardianship and, um, she does not want that, and so I'm fighting to uh defeat the guardianship aspect, because the person that has done it alienates the family and, um kind of like, alters the desire of her in her end times. She's 90.
Speaker 1:I don't think she'll be around long. But yes, it's guardianship. Write me on the DM and then I want to talk to you on the phone because I went through this in court. I fought a three-year battle. I don't want to waste time on here, but let's talk about it because I might be able to help you. Okay On that.
Speaker 9:Okay, I appreciate that. So I asked you about the Old Testament stuff and I like to put together a little weave, so I kind of did that a little bit. Mariah took a little bit of the fire there. A little bit, mariah took a little bit of the fire or the, the, the you know there.
Speaker 9:But Genesis one, one we all know it's talks about God created the heavens and the earth and the spirit of God fluttered over the waters and John one says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and in that word is us in the book of life. The Holy spirit was involved in the creation of us. In Job 3, 33, 4 says that the Spirit of God has made me and the breath of the Almighty gives me life Revelation. The threat of this is that All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beasts and will kneel down before them. Who reside in the land, except those, for those our names are written in the scroll of life, will be saved from that. The Holy Spirit empowers and equips us as Christians, as Judges 634, how he blessed Gideon in the spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon. And the spirit equips us with specific tasks and gives us powers, such as when Pharaoh recognized in Joseph that the spirit of God was upon him. And then, in the craftsmanship of the tabernacle, the Lord said to Moses see, I have called my name Bezela I can't really say that the son of Uriah, the son of Hur, the tribe of Judah, and I filled him with the spirit of God to make these things. And in Judges, he gave Samson the power of superhuman strength to overcome. And of course, we talked about Saul. The spirit comes on Saul when he was chosen king, but leaves him and enters David. And then, finally, getting to what we talked about tonight, the spirit of prophecy exists in the first Gentile that I saw in scripture was Balaam, where he saw the Israelites gathered and God, the spirit of the Lord, came upon him. And finally, in Isaiah. We all know Isaiah is the prophet of the coming Messiah.
Speaker 9:In Isaiah 11, 1 through 2, the spirit of the Lord will rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding. And in 61.1, the spirit of the sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim the good news to the poor. And in Micah 3.8,. But as for me, I'm filled with power, with the spirit of the Lord and, ultimately, what makes us different from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Moses wanted all of his people to be filled with the spirit, and he recognized that they weren't. But through the power of Jesus and in Acts 2 from Joel 2.28, 29, I will pour out my spirit on all my people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy that is us, my brothers and sisters. Thank you for a wonderful night.
Speaker 1:Thanks, brother Todd. That was good man. I appreciate that Candy.
Speaker 3:Last word Okay, been a real good session tonight tonight really enjoyed this one um too many to find it, to get it all all read out you know, even though there's a lot of us.
Speaker 3:But it was beautiful how everybody threw out different scriptures and really kind of nobody repeated, went to the same ones. There's just so many that that's the beautiful part about the body of Christ and coming together, like-minded and working together. It's beautiful, it's just beautiful, it is. I'm going to go with Galatians, chapter four. I'm going to start at verse four. Actually, I'm going to start at verse three. Even so, we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time was come, god sent forth his son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, god has sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts crying. I have a father, wherefore thou art no more a servant but a son, and if a son, then an heir of god through christ.
Speaker 1:But anyway, so love y'all good night thank you, candy, and I love all your contributions with the word, when you, when you bring out because you, you're, you're one of those who really likes to bring out the scriptures are appreciated, and I'm sure everybody else does as well banana pancakes.
Speaker 3:Last word sister hey, jonathan, before she gets on here, it's just the holy spirit speaking through my mouth every single time I forget where the mic button is at.
Speaker 8:So that's the delay.
Speaker 1:No problem.
Speaker 8:Okay, so I'm going to give my final words, just like Paul in 2 Corinthians, verse 13. No, where'd it go? 14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. This, what's it called this live. I had that verse highlighted previously, but this live made me realize. Sure, it can be like from one believer to another one, but we need a fellowship with the Holy Spirit as well. Um, just like we're fellowship, fellow shipping right now.
Speaker 8:Um so, okay, let me find my notes real quick. Um, so, just like, continue to cultivate intimacy, you know, with the person of the Holy Spirit that has been deposited in us, and embracing it because it's there, but then also fellowship with the extension of the Holy Spirit, which the Holy Spirit is in other believers as well. So, continue fellowship with the Holy Spirit within us. It's our teacher, comforter, ministers to us. And also, I was like thinking how to tie all of this in right with the fruit of the Spirit. Okay, okay, I got it, because if we fellowship with the Holy Spirit, then we're going to be able to keep in step with the fruit of the Holy Spirit. And I'm going to try to name them all Love, joy, peace and patience, kindness and goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control and a gentle heart.
Speaker 1:Amen sister.
Speaker 8:Oh, and then I did want to say verse 12 too Greet one another with a holy kiss. It reminded me of Proverbs, you know where it's like the opposite of that kiss from Judas to Jesus, but a holy kiss, I think. In Proverbs it's like a word of honesty, word of truth. So, yep, that's all I got.
Speaker 1:That's good sister. Yeah, I really appreciate you. You're welcome anytime. You have a delightful spirit about you and I really appreciate you, so I want you to come back as often as you can, okay.
Speaker 8:Y'all have a great night All right, you too Meg last word.
Speaker 1:You close it up for the night.
Speaker 6:Thank you, hold on, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:All right, go ahead Okay.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5:Mm-hmm. Go to revelation. So the enemy's highest form is he mocks and. And not only does the enemy mock God and have counterfeits to everything that God does, not only did he do that, but he mocks the Trinity at the highest level in revelation. If we go to revelation, chapter four, okay, we're going to see. In verse eight it says the four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes, around and within, and they do not rest day or night saying holy one, holy two, holy three. Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. So this is the worship of the Godhead in its fullness. This is what it's been revealed to me as.
Speaker 5:So then we go into Revelation, chapter 17. Revelation, chapter 17. And we're going to see what the beast and how the beast mocks the triune God. So we see this in right here. Verse eight again, it says so. If you look at the end times, you have the beat, the dragon, you have the beast and you have the false prophet, which is three. Now listen to what it says. It says which verse Chapter 17.
Speaker 5:We're going to verse eight. Listen to what it says. We just read in chapter 4 that god almighty, holy, holy, holy is the lord, god almighty, who was and is and is to come right right chapter 17, verse 8, it says the beast that you saw was and is not and will ascend out of the bottomless pit to go to perdition.
Speaker 5:And those who dwell on the earth will marvel. Whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Ooh, let me read that one more time. Whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world? Whoa, when they see the beast here, it is guys, that was and is not, and yet is you see that mockery there? I see where you're going. That's, that's all I just wanted to show you. I thought it was kind of, I thought it was significant of how the enemy mocks the triune nature of God. And if and if that was the case, right then one cannot even deny the Trinity in that way, because the enemy literally mocks the trying nature of God in its full. In his fullness, he mocks him. So but man, I just saw that reading that again and I was like whoa, so that kind of blew me away. I'm going to have to go back and read that again.
Speaker 1:You know it's beautiful to me to see how Like difference in the way everybody here Approaches the scriptures. You know, I get, I get to see everybody, so I get to see this pattern of how people come about. I don't know everything about how people do it, but I get an idea in a sense, and so it's it's really, uh, a pleasure for me to be able to have you guys come on and contribute the way that you do and the way you do it. So I really appreciate everybody and your contribution because you make this time, the fellowship that we have on these nights, really special for me, and I know we make it special to each other. So it's just a blessing to have such an awesome group, to be able to fellowship with this way, and I want to encourage us to be able to keep going and really be blessed by one another in this fellowship.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, be provoked and be persuaded.
Speaker 4:Good night, shalom, shalom.
Speaker 5:Good night y'all, love y'all, god bless y'all.