The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Foolish & Bewitched (Part 3 of 4)
Paul's letter to the Galatians confronts a critical problem that continues to plague believers today – the seductive pull to add human effort to God's grace. This powerful discussion dives deep into what it truly means to be saved by grace through faith, and why our natural inclination to "complete" this work through law-keeping fundamentally undermines the gospel.
At the core of this conversation is Paul's pointed question: "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith?" We explore the profound difference between merely hearing the gospel with our ears versus truly receiving it spiritually in our hearts. This spiritual hearing is a gift from God, given to those whom He has chosen for salvation – "My sheep hear my voice," as Jesus said.
The discussion reveals how the flesh wars against grace in two critical ways. First, the flesh hates grace because grace eliminates our ability to boast. Second, law-keeping appeals to our flesh by giving us something to achieve, something to pride ourselves in. When we suggest that salvation requires faith plus something else – whether ritual observance, moral behavior, or religious practices – we're effectively claiming Christ's righteousness is insufficient.
What makes this teaching particularly powerful is the revelation about Paul's use of the term "accursed" for those who distort the gospel. The Hebrew word "harem" means "a person or thing devoted to the Lord for destruction," underscoring the serious eternal consequences of adding human effort to grace.
If you've ever struggled with the temptation to "contribute" to your salvation or wondered if faith alone is truly enough, this teaching will bring clarity and freedom. The message of Galatians remains our lifeline today: salvation comes by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Hold on a second. Okay, there we go. Is that better? All right, okay, jonathan, what I'm hearing right now is how do I put this? Paul is asking has the word I brought to you not soaked into your heart and into your mind? Has it not pierced your heart, your mind? Has it not brought you to a point where you see the truth of Jesus that I'm trying to bring to you? Didn't Barnabas and I bring you this truth just a while back, a short time later? Did you not hear it? Did you not receive it? Did a short time later? Did you not hear it? Did you not receive it? Did you not absorb it? Did you not understand it? Where did it go? Right, that's what I think about when I hear about hearing.
Speaker 3:Right Now. See, nobody's doing anything wrong. Everybody's perspective has contributed to this. This question has been true, but the one specific element that I want to add to it is this and I'm bringing this up because of a conversation I had a couple of days ago, because you know, there's a great many Christians because Paul's talking about the hearing of faith which only comes through one means through the preached word. The preached word. But many people hear the preached word. Many people hear the preached word and most of them are not. Most of them did not hear it. They heard it but they didn't hear it.
Speaker 3:You understand Meaning that from the heart to the brain, but what I'm saying is people think you have to separate hearing in two different categories. There is a hearing that is audible, which does not convey any sense of in terms of your salvation, but there's a hearing. So, even though you hear that, you hear the gospel. It is not that bare audible hearing that saves you. Otherwise, everyone who ever heard the gospel would be a believer. We know that's not true.
Speaker 3:So the hearing is something that, when it comes into the ear gate, it passes into the heart and is believed, and the command of that part, of the command of that hearing is what God does, opening up that heart and see. This is the difference, because this brother was trying to tell me that everybody hears the gospel and it's just that some reject, no, those whom God has elected to salvation. They hear in due time. They always hear. They always hear Because it is a spiritual. Like Sister Angie says, they hear in the heart. It's a spiritual hearing. When Jesus says my sheep hear my voice, what was he talking about? He wasn't just talking about just this audible hearing that all men have, no Talking about the spirit.
Speaker 4:Notice what he says.
Speaker 3:Did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? The hearing of faith only comes by way or in connection to receiving the spirit. That's the only way. So the big problem that so many modern believers have is that they associate salvation with just the hearing, which is just neutral. The priest's gospel is just neutral. It's just thrown out there and men can decide if like it or not, or if it's logical or not, or if they can lay hold upon it intellectually or not. That's not the issue. The hearing is by the is he talks about is the hearing of faith. This is different. Why it says. He says did you hear? Did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? It can only be by the hearing of faith. And what? What do we know about faith? It is a gift of god and that goes back to john romans 10, 17.
Speaker 3:Faith comes by hearing. Hearing comes by the command of god. Um, um, you like that, sister Mariah? Go ahead. Go ahead, sister Mariah. Then Lisa.
Speaker 4:And then Angie. After that I'll come back after sister Lisa All right, all right, go ahead, lisa.
Speaker 6:I was just going to add. That's the seed that we plant, is the word of God, and it's it is. It is God who brings the increase. It is God who gives them the ears to actually hear it and receive it. So that's what I'm saying these people that they may, they may have received it well and very well may not have. So I guess time would have told.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, sister Angie.
Speaker 2:I would say that, if you are trying to hear it in a logical sense, it's more of a fleshy thing, and the flesh is hostile towards God. So, there's no way you're going to're doing it in the spiritual you figured it out. We can't hear you. Oh, I did. Can you hear me now?
Speaker 2:yeah, I can hear you go ahead yeah, but in the spiritual sense, like lisa was saying. Just to piggyback on that, it is a gift from God and he draws you near and you hear it through the spirit because that is what it wants to please God. So there's no way that people, if they're hearing it through the flesh, they're not going to hear it Right Because it's hostile. But when you're born again you hear. Just like you said, the sheep hear my voice, that's right, the sheep hear my voice.
Speaker 3:He's not talking about just his voice. There's a lot of people that heard him preaching the Sermon on the Mount.
Speaker 2:That's right. But those who had the ears to hear could hear it, but the ones who were not could not, because they also were of cardinal mind, that's right.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. Lastly, before I leave off this verse here and go to verse three, you know, because I said earlier, that when Paul called these Galatians foolish, he's talking about from the standpoint of their spiritual intellect. In other words, they missed it Somehow. They got bewitched. We talked about that and Paul is saying that you have shown a severe lack of discernment in this matter and by deviating from what you had already received from us, who preached the truth to you. So now he's asked this question, you know, did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? And what he's trying to do is restore them to having right judgment, right discernment, because the question forces them to self judge. So the question means so now he's going like well, he's putting him in a position to choose how did this come about? Was it by the works of the law or was it by the hearing of faith?
Speaker 3:The obvious answer that we can assume that those people came to believe or understand or at least in the very least knew what Paul was saying, lay into one issue. Lay into one issue they received the Holy Spirit by the hearing of faith. The hearing of faith and remember, it's not just bare hearing. Because faith is given to you, it's given, it's a gift from God that he's under no obligation to give everyone and he doesn't. So in any situation where there is someone who has faith, it is because it was given to them. It was given to them and it came by way of the preached word. The preached word, somebody made the proclamation of this truth and you believed it. You believed it and this is the method that God chose to save his people. Paul get this.
Speaker 3:Paul says that God chose the foolishness of preaching to save the lost, to save those who are his. He called it foolishness, but the gospel itself is not foolish at all. The part of what's foolish is that it's required in order to do it. It may be perceived this way from man's standpoint, but the thing about it because God could just easily say, like other people accuse us of saying that we're all just robots no, god chose the foolishness of preaching to save the loss, and that's just the way he wanted to do it. Why, I don't know. None of us know why he chose that methodology. But one thing we do know is that it works because we all believe in the greater part of the true body of Christ. They don't waver from his truth. We all believe it.
Speaker 3:So now, in verse three, paul continues his line of questioning and he says are you so foolish Really? He's like you must be crazy. Are you so foolish that, having begun in the spirit, you are now made perfect by the flesh? Perfect means complete, he's like.
Speaker 3:Let me get this straight you knew, and you were taught, that the law could not save, did not save, was not intended to save. You knew this, we taught you, I taught you and you understood it. You understood it and you begun in the spirit by something that goes outside of the law, in fact, where the law does not reside at all. What was it? Faith? He said this in verse two by the hearing of faith. When you heard about faith, that's what you lay hold of in order to become saved and to receive the Spirit of God. So if you were in fact saved by the hearing of faith, received the Spirit, begun your Christian journey, begun your acceptance with God, or entered into your acceptance with God by the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh? And by the flesh he means by keeping the law. Keeping the law is something that is done by the flesh, keeping the law is not done spiritually. So he equates law keeping with the flesh oh, that's good.
Speaker 5:Where did you? Are you saying made perfect by the flesh?
Speaker 3:yes, so he, so his whole thing is. He's basically saying like listen, listen, you received the holy spirit by hearing of the, uh, by the hearing of faith, right, and he goes, wait a minute. So if you achieve and acquire salvation through the hearing of faith, then how are you now saying that your faith or your salvation is made complete by keeping the law, which is what he means when he says being perfected by the flesh? Keeping the law is completely and totally an expression of outward motives. All of the ceremonial laws, what were they?
Speaker 5:They were outward. So one could say that if one is keeping the law that they are in the flesh, yes, amen, amen. So it makes sense when paul says in romans, chapter 8, after he lists all those things but ye are not in the flesh right, but of the spirit right boom, that's good.
Speaker 3:this this is the hardest thing for people to understand. Brother Greg, go ahead.
Speaker 7:Yeah, like a few days ago, there was a guy up in the panel here who was talking about you know how he was getting. You know, know the holy spirit was leading him. You know to keep the law, remember, yeah, and and I would. That's what I was trying to tell him. I say no, that's not the holy spirit, that's your flesh right, because the law excites the flesh and the law and the flesh are allies why do you think that it was rags, honestly, what?
Speaker 3:why do you think? Why do you think that is Riggs, Honestly? Why do you think that is? Why do you think that the law is? Why do you think it excites the flesh? I'm genuinely asking for me too, not just for everybody who's listening, but why do you think?
Speaker 7:That's a good point. Well, it says so in scripture. It says the law, you know, sin, taking opportunity by the law, right. So he's saying you know the principle of sin that's in our flesh. The law uses that as a launching pad, right, to get you know, to get going, to gain some momentum and to get a hold of us. So there's that sense of it. It's kind of like, you know, when you the old thing, you know, you see a park bench and it's got a sign on it says wet paint, don't touch, what do you do? You know you gotta touch it, right. So so there's that sense, right, all right. But then there's the other sense.
Speaker 7:Like we were talking about before, you know, our flesh wants to achieve. Like we were talking about before, our flesh wants to achieve, we want to think that we are doing something to better ourselves, right. And so it appeals to the flesh. Even for a Christian, right, there's something that appeals to the flesh that I'm going over and above. I'm not one of these, you know. I'm not just your run-of-the-mill Christian. I don't eat pork, right. I worship on saturday. I say I say yahushua, you know. You know what I mean, that that appeals to the flesh too. They think that they're bettering themselves spiritually by things that couldn't get them in to it, that couldn't get them into justification in the first place.
Speaker 3:Somebody said in the comments, and it's so true he says isn't that how we frustrate the grace of God? Absolutely? That is the total truth. And, greg, like what you're saying, is that perspective that you're talking about right now, is people saying contrary to what John the Baptist said? These people are saying these law keepers who said they've been saved by grace as well, they are saying I must increase and he must decrease.
Speaker 5:So just to embellish on what he said for a second. He said isn't that how we frustrate the grace of God? So, if we really think about it, the flesh hates grace. You know why? Because you can't save yourself. You have nothing to boast about. You must repent and humble yourself and literally receive salvation as a gift. So what the law does is it actually provokes the flesh right. Not only does the flesh misuse the law to try to boast it also rebels against it, right so?
Speaker 3:it's the law of god, the law of god or the law in general when it comes to the believer, is always trying to tell the believer to come with me. There's nothing wrong with, it's okay, we're not going, we're not sacrificing, we're not going to say, this isn't working for you. The grace of God works for you too. Works for you also. And see, that's the simple part that messes people up. The grace of God is great, faith is great. What Jesus did was wonderful and magnificent, but there's nothing wrong with being circumcised for your salvation. There's nothing wrong if we add this one little thing in there. There's nothing wrong if we add this whole thing of telling you to abstain from this or abstain from that. You know, like Mariah says, it's about what follows the but. You know there are no buts. It is very simple, and I've probably said it a thousand times in these series already and I will say it many more times we are justified by faith alone. Brother Jeffrey, you were going to say something. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jonathan, I was just going to say that the law and works both end in the same place. And do you know where that place is? Oh death, yes, yeah, okay, who said that? Was that you, I don't know who did.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right well, it came out of your water, I just like, yes, it came out of there, point being it is by grace alone that we are saved. I mean, how much clearer, brother Jonathan, can we say it than that? You can't say it any simpler than that, any clearer than that, any plainer than that. That's it, right, it is truly over.
Speaker 3:It is truly something so simple that it drives over people's heads and it is astounding because of, because of the inconsistency. It's incredulous from Paul's perspective. You know he's like, he's dumbfounded by this, he's like I don't understand it. I don't know how I could have said it any plainer. You know and taught you in any plain terms, but the flesh always refers to human effort, human effort, particularly when it comes to these legalistic rituals. We have to run from ritualistic observations as a means to salvation, because when you incorporate this, you turn the grace of our God into something that it no longer is and you also reduce the death of Christ to vanity. Right, sister Mariah, go ahead.
Speaker 4:To talk now.
Speaker 3:Your kids. They wanted to get their answers too. That's all right.
Speaker 4:So bad, so bad. Wanted to get their answers too. That's all right. So bad, so bad. I just um find it very, very funny how people will still equate their good works and they, they say, like you know, I, it's of course prideful or self-righteousness, but they don't even realize and they will even quote, for none is good but God alone.
Speaker 4:And they don't realize that that goodness is still not even you working. It's God and you working, allowing it to be righteousness. That righteous works is not your, it does not belong to you, but God is even so gracious enough that he will give you rewards in the end for abiding in what you uh believe, the on the father's will, or the commandment to believe in him, who he has sent you know. So it is um grace, and this truth of the report in which we have received is you. It's such a humbling and you have to have such humility to just stand in that alone to know that, regardless whatever you do, if it's out of love or not, it is still by the grace of God that you're able to do such things. You know.
Speaker 4:I think that nobody wants to really put that for or not, nobody, but a lot of people that say that they are believers. Not nobody, but a lot of people that say that they are believers. The word is very true when it says for out of the heart, the mouth speaks, and we could know that who it is that they truly worship. Are they really worshiping Christ and God himself, or are they somehow, in some little way, shape or form, worshiping themselves?
Speaker 3:That's what it's, not even subtle. That's exactly what it is Worshiping self, Like Meg said. I love this thing. I haven't used it yet, but I'm going to. It's like the clay is boasting over the hands that made it. I forgot what it was, but, Meg, when you said something like to the effect of you reversed what Jeremiah says where we are the potter and God is, and we're forming God, fashioning God for our own heart.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we want to tell God, we want to, we want to show God what he needs to do or or how he should act, and like it's so interesting to listen to conversation to hear, well, god wouldn't do that, god's not like that. Oh really, go read the scriptures.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 5:Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm going to tell you something To me, when I hear people say that, like it scares me. I feel like lightning is going to strike in the room somewhere and I'm going down, you know to, to hear people speak. And and it's so many moments like this when you realize what jesus meant when he looked at the roman soldier and said forgive them, father, for they know not what they do, that's right, man, right, it's heavy, but you know this, this, this, everything that pertains to the law.
Speaker 3:When we talk about the law, it is, it is all centered around human effort. There is no human effort that can be construed to be an ingredient in the admixture of faith. It cannot be done. It can't be done, and the idea that so many people try to do that and try to rationalize it is bewitching. Like Paul says, you're becoming seduced and charmed, greg, and then Jeffrey and charmed Greg, and then Jeffrey.
Speaker 7:Jeffrey LeFrancois yeah, I'm one. I really appreciate Ray Comfort. I don't know if you guys are familiar with him or not. I am. I know who he is. Yep, and it's. It's. It seems that if the law is rightly applied prior to convert greg, you there got a call. So if, if the law is rightly applied to the sinner before conversion, then it does its true function. It leaves him helpless and and, and that way the cross is rightly understood. Right that the cross is your only, only hope. And so when the law is rightly applied in the beginning, I think it's less likely to be misapplied. The law is less likely to be misapplied after conversion. Not that it's impossible, but do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:Right, I see exactly what you're saying. You know it's interesting to me, greg. Because, right, I see exactly what you're saying. You know it's interesting to me, greg. Because if having the law be incorporated into the grace that you say you received is necessary to complete your salvation, then why wasn't the law able to do that before you coming to christ? And secondly, if we receive the imputed righteousness of christ and you are still having to be obedient to some particular group of laws for and as a means to salvation, then that also means that there was something short. That means the righteousness of christ was shorted, because the only way that there could be a requirement existing in the heart of a believer to believe that they need to follow some law, what it does is not even an implication.
Speaker 3:It's explicit that christ's righteousness didn't go far enough, because if we're given his righteousness for salvation but yet after the fact we need righteousness by the law in order to complete our righteousness, then that means that Christ didn't supply enough of it. And it's crazy when you think about this, because you have the Catholic faith who believes in super irrigation, that righteousness. There's a surplus of righteousness on saints that have passed that can be handed down to other people who didn't, who weren't righteous enough. But yet we have the same kind of people, catholic and otherwise, who would say that no, by teaching losing salvation. They will say well, I know, I'm saved by grace, through faith, but I also need to observe these laws and do these things that are the result of human efforts, because what you're saying there is that Christ didn't go far enough.
Speaker 3:He didn't go far enough. There was some righteousness that he did not acquire for us. So what he imputed to our account was partial in its substance and therefore cannot possibly be satisfaction for the redemption that we need in order to be reconciled to God. So we need to keep the law in addition to the grace of God. Will you, brother Jeffrey, go ahead?
Speaker 1:No, jonathan. I just wanted to add that it's scary in a way that, in that, no matter how well we preach and teach the word of God and that salvation is by grace and grace alone, okay, there are those people in this world that, no matter what, they are going to reject it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:No matter what Right, they already bet eternity on the fact that salvation is through works or some other thing or vehicle or device other than grace Right. And those are the people that, how do I say, we need to be mindful of, because they are the devil's biggest pawn that he uses against us, and I just wanted to share that.
Speaker 3:Right Sister Angie, sister Angie and then Meg.
Speaker 2:I want to go back into that whole thing about. You know, when you hear people speaking like I do this, I do this, and I was in a live one time and I was sharing about some of the ministry that I'm doing here, it's not even me and I said, look, it's not even about us, so we've got to take self out of it. It's not us, it's Christ in us that's doing it. We're prompted by God in the spirit.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:Many times when I'm speaking of me, it's not me. I'm testifying of Jesus Christ for it and not my own. Jesus Christ for and not my own.
Speaker 2:Even in my own woman's study, I said you guys put me on the pedestal. I will step down real quick because it's not about me, it's about Christ. And the moment you make it about me, then you're making it about a works thing. And this is not about works. This is about being a spirit and do that thing. So how many times have you had to correct people and say no, it's not me, it's not about me, it's not, I am in Christ. So it's Christ's work that you receive and you can't put it on me. So we have to be humble when we're doing the work of Christ and make it about Him and take it off of self. I mean just, you know if that makes sense to when we were, when y'all were talking about that thing, um, about that. So when I said I'm in this place, when you say I'm in, god placed me here. This is what he's doing through here.
Speaker 3:And see and see. Uh, I I think that may not be to this extreme, but it could be. I don't know May not be to this extreme, but it could be. I don't know. But here's the thing. Think about this for a second what is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing that which is attributed to God and given the glory of it to Satan.
Speaker 2:Amen to that. That's what it is.
Speaker 3:So when you start off, like Paul is dealing with, if you started off in the faith salvation by grace, through faith If you receive the grace of God, if you've been given the gift of faith and now you're seeking its perfection in law keeping, you are giving credit to your salvation, to the law, because you're saying that the law completes it. So this is why Paul is saying he is, why he's saying that what you, what you, what you have concluded and what you have begun to embrace and what has bewitched you, is damning and those who told you this, let them be accursed. Now, when you think about being accursed, what are we talking about? It's serious. So to me, like I said, I wouldn't say that that is what constitutes the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but that has to be involved in it. If they don't back away from that and return to the rightness of mind, because believing that you can be saved by grace and then you add to the law and not knowing that, that frustrates the grace of God, like one brother said earlier but Paul talks about in Galatians, chapter two, it's become something different.
Speaker 3:That is not God and you are also giving credit to the devil by saying my flesh now needs to add to what Christ has given me, because Christ did not supply enough righteousness for me to need to rely on him alone. So Christians most of us today don't take the time to understand the implications of what we believe, because when you go down some of these roads, you need to go down to the whole road, and if there's a dead end there's a reason for that. But we don't live in a time right now where where the majority of the Christian church are able to string a complete thought together, let alone trying to trying to take the Bible. The word of God is like is like one whole shoe and we're trying to lace it up so we can bring it all together and make it fit, because it always does for every believer. Mariah, go ahead, sister.
Speaker 4:I want to say that it is. I can understand what you're saying and there is some type of truth to that, because if by the law it shows how we are not good and by that our works are unrighteous or evil works, and he says that because they attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to that which is evil, then that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and it doesn't necessarily have to say like, oh, satan, but those evil works. And you're saying, oh, I'm saved, but you're fully trusting in those evil works because you're not at no way, shape or form resting in the work of Christ. So it is ultimately I agree with you.
Speaker 3:It is you know and you know, and I'm thinking about it just from you know the landscape or the imprint that the word of God is laid on me, on me. So not having examined it in a more deeper way is something that I really want to look at, because the reality is, because Paul's telling them this is another gospel, you add anything that is a result of human effort, anything that is tied to legality and ritualism that you are saying completes what the Holy Spirit has begun. This is blasphemous, and to me, I don't see any way around that. It's blasphemous, and so I believe you're right, sister, in that assessment, and it's definitely something to really consider, because this is something that I'm going to add to this particular exposition. Going forward, Sister Meg, go ahead.
Speaker 5:Okay. So a couple things when you were talking about I'm just following what you were saying so, like, when it comes to grace, okay, it absolutely destroys boasting. So when it comes to the humility a ladder to heaven You're forced to depend completely on God's mercy and that humility, right, right. So when the other thing that I just looked up, I wanted to share with y'all, cause you were talking about the word of cursed, the word in Hebrew is harem, and this is what it means A person or thing devoted to the Lord for destruction.
Speaker 3:Wow Devoted.
Speaker 5:If that doesn't make somebody think, not only is it going to be destroyed, it is devoted to the Lord, set aside, devoted to him for destruction, and it's either that you know people are going to get. It's the opposite of being blessed right. Instead of receiving mercy and favor, the person receives only justice and punishment. Punishment because, either way, god is justified in what he does. He's, he's just period. So, man, that if you imagine preaching a different gospel and and somebody just be like dude, you just devoted yourself to the Lord for destruction. Like, instead of just saying a curse, do you know?
Speaker 3:what I mean. It's brutal. But see, we don't understand. Even the best of us, some of the best preachers, best theologians, best minds, down to the most simple minds, who understand things in some of the best ways, we don't understand how serious this is, this book that Paul to the Galatians. This is a very, very serious book, serious, very serious book. Serious, not to say that the others aren't. But in this context, this vein of which we're speaking about, what exactly is the gospel? What is it and what it is? It is salvation absent, anything that is a result of human effort, period, period, it is the hardest thing for people to understand. Lisa, and then Jeffrey.
Speaker 6:Well, I was going to add when Meg was speaking these people it's crazy, because I wish they could hear that Somebody needs to say that devoted. How did that go? I can't even remember how it went, but these are devoted to the Lord for destruction.
Speaker 6:See, that's crazy. And these are the people that will stand there with their chest puffed out, pointing their finger straight at you, saying you don't know, and, and basically, sometimes we'll even go as far as to condemn you, and yet they are just blind to what is really going on. It right that that blew me away. Right there, that was.
Speaker 1:That was man oh man that was and we've talked about this before, but I think it's worth mentioning here again about the seriousness of what we're talking about tonight. The bottom line to me comes down to this we are talking about outcome here in eternity, where