The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: All Promises to National Israel - FULFILLED (Part 4 of 5)
Faith isn't about what you accomplish—it's about embracing what Christ has already completed. This eye-opening conversation challenges popular misconceptions about salvation by diving deep into Galatians to reveal why Paul was so disturbed by believers who started with faith but slipped into works-based thinking.
We tackle one of today's most widespread theological confusions: dispensationalism and its effect on spiritual urgency. When believers constantly push prophetic fulfillment into some distant future, they miss the present reality of God's work. As one participant powerfully states, "Everything is in the future, so don't operate with urgency today." This mindset serves as a spiritual snooze button, lulling Christians into complacency when Scripture calls for immediate faithfulness.
The discussion reaches its zenith when examining the true identity of "the Israel of God." Through careful examination of Galatians 6:16, Romans 11, and other key passages, we uncover how Scripture consistently presents one unified people of God comprising both Jewish and Gentile believers. This revelation challenges the common assumption that God has unfinished business with national Israel, instead revealing how His promises were already fulfilled to the nation while His spiritual promises continue through the church—the true Israel of God.
Why does this matter? Because understanding our identity in Christ transforms how we view ourselves and others. No ethnic background receives special status in salvation—the ground is level at the cross. When we grasp this truth, we're freed to proclaim the gospel universally without elevating any group above others. The miracle isn't when someone from a particular heritage believes, but whenever any sinner is transformed by grace through faith in Christ alone.
Ready to rethink everything you thought you knew about Israel, the church, and God's plan? Listen now and discover why faith alone in Christ's finished work changes everything.
works that you need to do for salvation. Then Christ somehow fell short and now needs you to pick up the pieces.
Speaker 2:And Jesus says in John 6, 29, and this is the work of God. Believe on him, whom he has sent.
Speaker 1:This is what I'm talking about. Baby boy, keep it coming. That's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking about. We are saved by the active obedience of the lord and savior, jesus christ. There is no work that you can do that he hasn't already done for you, if you believe by way of the hearing of faith nothing more you are condemned already if I'm wrong, speak up. You are condemned already.
Speaker 2:If I'm wrong, speak up. You can't go wrong preaching Christ crucified bro.
Speaker 4:Amen brother.
Speaker 1:You can't. It's him and him alone, and I know all my brothers and sisters here understand that and believe that. I know I'm not dropping anything new. You know these things and this is what Paul is telling the Galatians. You know these things. So who has bewitched you? Why are you being so stupid? He's saying, why are you being foolish? How is it that you have begun this? We have instructed you, me and the other apostles. We've instructed you in salvation and explaining how it is by faith, how you're justified by faith, and the reason why you've been made privy to this is because you've been made to understand that the law only revealed your transgression. It did not heal your condition.
Speaker 4:Paul only revealed your transgression. It did not heal your condition. And when you read the scripture, you will see three things that the Lord Jesus Christ does he grants, he causes, he gives the right. If you are reading scripture, you will be so surprised how many times you see those things he makes, he grants, he causes and he gives the right. It's flooded because that's what he does.
Speaker 1:Right, yep. So in this last passage that I want to get at, it's in Samuel, 2 Samuel, chapter 7. Now, 2 Samuel, chapter 7, and I'm going to read also verse 8. In fact, meg, can you go to 2 Samuel and go to Chapter 7?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So read verse 1 and then read verses eight through eleven okay, so second Samuel, what? Chapter seven. Read verse one and then read eight through eleven. God bless, uh, big, big gravy. I know you gotta go, so I'm glad to have you here, brother, and you know the door is always open for you, Always. You got it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, verse one Okay, here we go.
Speaker 4:All right, oh, here we go. All right, oh, you want verse 1 first.
Speaker 1:Verse 1 and then verses 8 through 11. All right. This is establishing David's kingdom. Go ahead.
Speaker 4:All right. 2 Samuel, verse 1. Chapter 1. Oh 7. I don't want it 7. Okay, here we go. All right, and it came to pass when the king sat in his house and the lord had given him rest round about from all his enemies, verse 8 through 11. Now, 8 through 11, yep, from all his enemies, verse 8 through 11.
Speaker 1:Now, 8 through 11.
Speaker 4:Yep. Now, therefore, so shalt thou say unto my servant David. Thus saith the Lord of hosts I took thee from the sheep coat, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel, and I was with thee, with there. So, ever thou wentest and have cut off all thine enemies Out ofine sight and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. Moreover, I will appoint a place for my people, israel, and will plant them that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more. Neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them anymore, as before time and as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people, israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also, the lord telleth thee that he will make thee a house.
Speaker 1:That's right, david. Again we're hearing. We're hearing the second samuel talking about how god has fulfilled the promises to israel of having rest from all sides, from all their enemies. And remember when, when solomon took over the throne, there was no more war going on at all. None, it was all done. David had defeated all the enemies, he defeated them all. So once again, we see how, under the old covenant made to national, physical, earthly, worldly, fleshly Israel, he fulfilled everything he said, everything he said.
Speaker 1:And so when people tell me, well, it's not important that we still believe that God has a second work to do with Israel. No, it is because you're denying you, because you are denying the accomplishment of what God has promised that he would do. And if you start by saying that he didn't fulfill what he said he's going to do, then how do you explain him fulfilling his promises and how can we be sure that he's going to do it in this covenant? And there's a myriad other reasons why that that that falls apart, but it's just like when I deal, when I talk about and we talked about this maybe the other day, I believe like, especially when you deal with a subject matter like dispensationalism, especially when it comes to eschatology, I had this brother say on on on online the other day I don't know, you know, christians waste their time talking about the seven-year tribulation and defending and arguing about that or whatever, because it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:It does matter. It does matter Because I, as I told you, meg, the other day, as I, when I look at this teaching, this eschatological perspective on the future, when you talk about tribulation, seven years and all those other kinds of all that other nonsense that's out there, what that does it is like pressing the snooze button on an alarm clock, and when you push the snooze button on your alarm clock, you do that to prolong your slumber. And that's what this teaching in dispensationalism teaches Everything is in the future, so don't operate with urgency today. The mark of the beast is not being passed out today. Yes, it has. People have the mark of the beast already and have been having the mark of the beast ever since Christ ascended on high.
Speaker 2:That's why you got to be born again.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. That's exactly the truth. Physical mark, a tattoo or some computer chip in your arm, all this other Da Vinci code nonsense. Then what do people believe? They believe that if it hasn't happened the way you are saying it, then they don't know that they already have it.
Speaker 4:How are you going to start in the flesh what was finished in the spirit? Think about that in relation to what you just said right now. Right, so many things, so many people want to connotate everything so physical they want to see, they want, they want this, they want the tangibility of saying this is what it's going to be and this is what we're going for. I'm going to tell you something.
Speaker 4:You posted this video it was a couple of days ago and it was about the Schofields. I mean, oh, my goodness, I looked that up even further and I'm going to tell you something. I will tell you this what? The first thing that came to my mind when it? Number one, that politics came to mind when it came to the Schofield Bible. Number two it would be a plan from as far back to conjure the pre-trib rapture and all the notes that were in there to deceive people and make them think that this is something that it's not and it's going to be one of the biggest deceive. I don't know if deceivement's a word, but it's going to deceive people so much it's not even funny listen it's it already has.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it already. It already. Let me tell you something, the Schofield. Let me tell you what happens in the 1930s, in the 1930s, in the 1930s, you have the Schofield Reference Bible. I believe it came out in 1917, but it became it really became a big deal closer to the 1930s. But right around in 13, in the 1930s, but right around in 1930s, these are all the things that happened the Schofield Reference Bible, the Origin of the Species by Charles Darwin, the invention of the Campbellites and the Pentecostal movement, mormonism 1930, seven-day Adventism in the 1930s, jehovah's Witnesses in the 30s. All these things happened at the same time. Muslims, or Islam and Buddhism, came in hard. They had already been established, but they really took real root in America in the 1930s. All these things happened at the same time. Like there was a like, is it like? And I and I personally equate it and, and I'm sure it's not completely true, but the greatest preacher in my mind alive after Paul was Charles Spurgeon, and this is not long after he died, not long after he died Then. So in my mind, this whole vacuum was left behind and him being in my mind one of the last great preachers ever, one of the last great preachers ever Spurgeon, winfield, edwards, all these guys because the great preacher started to die out In 2017, we lost RC Sproul.
Speaker 1:A week or so ago, we lost John MacArthur. You know what I mean. So now who's going to carry this torch? Are we going to let somebody else creep in here? When Spurgeon died, semideventism was born. The Campbellites and the Irvingites were born. Semideventism was born. Mormonism was born, if I didn't say that already, the Darwin wrote, the origin of the species was born.
Speaker 1:The Schofield reference Bible came out CI Schofield putting notes in the actual Bible and nobody is saying that he's adding to the Word of God.
Speaker 1:I don't know how much more you can add to the Word of God when you put notes in the Bible. So we, as believers, we have to take the torch left behind by a lot of the great believing christians that that preceded us and to focus on putting the truth out there, because it is only the truth that can save souls, and so we need to understand that, like there's a lot of people that come on here and I was telling you, meg, there's a lot of people that come on here and I was telling you, meg, there's a lot of people that come on here that you are never going to, you are never going to convince anything. So if you feel like you must engage with these, with these clowns that tell these lies to people all day long, then at least be aware of their audience If you have the opportunity to be a part of their discussions and speak to their audience, because they are not going to listen to you.
Speaker 4:And they and what's even more, deceased. What is even more deceptive is that the one thing that they use is you must rightly divide the word of truth. When, if you go and you research what rightly dividing is, it's literally cutting it straight. And the reason why Paul was speaking about this. What was Paul? He was a tent maker. How precise do you have to be? Our Lord and Savior was a carpenter. How precise do you have to be? But when you cut the word of God straight, I'm going to tell you something. That's when it starts to open up. It's not doing all this, Harry Potter, like you say you know, where's Waldo type stuff?
Speaker 4:It's not. It's so sound. It brings you so much peace. That's how you know, because the peace that surpasses all understanding is imparted to the believer that is only from God. And you, it is well with your soul. It really is.
Speaker 1:I love that song, that hymn, if that's what you're referring to, me too, I love that. So Nathan said it. Right, nathan Parry. He says that you know that rightly dividing, talking about the cutting of the animal, that's really what he's talking about when you. So, when you, when you have this, the sacrificial animals, right, you know so that rightly dividing comes with cutting that up right, so that there is no mixture of the foul parts of the animal, so that they're not to be included in the sacrifice that you, that you have to make. So this is a big, this is a big deal, so that that whole, that whole concept, because but you're right, maybe you know, you, you look at him being a tent maker, but he's referring to the animals that were to be used and in the sacrifices, in the animal sacrifices, to rightly divide, rightly cut those up so as to no longer, so as to make sure you don't mix wrong pieces, the dirty pieces, up with that part which is to be offered up. And so when you and when you look at it, it's just a beautiful picture and like somebody said I think it was Kelly she says, oh, yeah, she says, and they say you're not in context, I can't tell you.
Speaker 1:When you're talking with people and you're trying to use scripture, when you're using the scripture, rightly dividing the word of God, as they accuse you of not doing sometimes, what happens is, if they don't like what you say, then it goes into like you're either not in context or you know, and they'll add on to that by saying well, you need to read the verse before that and then you need to read the verse after that. Next thing you know, you got to read the whole chapter. Next thing you know, you got to read the whole book. Next thing you know, you got to read the whole Bible.
Speaker 2:You can't move to another verse in another chapter.
Speaker 1:Exactly. You know, it's just, it's just crazy, and that's why, and that's why it's important, and you know, at least for me, and I know god uses everybody differently. But this is why, like in the, in a, in a situation like tonight with these, with these five verses bringing about, showing and establishing how the promises that god made to israel, they've been fulfilled, and when you read these verses, there's no other conclusion you can come to. It doesn't take a massive brain to understand what this means. It doesn't.
Speaker 2:And brother, if you don't mind, I've got to go to work, but I'd like to read something in Galatians 4 before I leave.
Speaker 1:Go ahead and do it. Go ahead and do it. This could be your last word before you leave.
Speaker 2:I've just been waiting for the right time and I don't know. Yeah, man, it's a good conversation, though I appreciate the time to speak. But here it is Galatians 4, 22 through 31. Okay, we were talking, talking about two Israel. I believe there's two Jerusalem's and there's two Israel's, and it says it right here.
Speaker 2:It says, for it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by the bond made, the other by the free woman. Yep, but he who was of the bond woman was born after the flesh, but he of the free woman was by the promise, which things are an allegory for. These are the two covenants the one from Mount Sinai, that's where the law of Moses was given, which genereth to bondage, which is Agar. So the law of Moses is compared to Hagar, for this Agar is Mount Sinai in the Arabia Peninsula, and answereth to the Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children. So the Jerusalem over there today is in bondage, yes, 26. But Jerusalem, which is above, is free, which is the mother of us all, and Catholics can't deal with this verse, by the way, verse 27.
Speaker 2:For it is written Rejoice thou that bear and that bears not. Break forth and cry thou that travaileth not For the desolate have many more children than she which has a husband. Remember, in Jeremiah three eight, he gave natural Israel a bill of divorce. They have no husband. That's right. And in and in Matthew uh 23, for around verse 36, he says oh, jerusalem, jerusalem, your house is left desolate. So Jerusalem is the desolate house. The church is the is the bride Right house. The church is the bride. And it says now we brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then, he that was persecuted after the flesh persecute him that was born after the spirit. Even so, it is now Two examples the Jews said we should stone Jesus according to the law and Saul stoned Stephen according to the law. Verse 30.
Speaker 2:Nevertheless, what saith the scripture Cast out the bondwoman and her son natural Israel, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Speaker 1:Man, look, I should. In fact, I am going to record this and I should play it. I'm going to play it back, actually, but, man, you, you, you nailed it and I'm glad that you said it now, because when we get to that chapter, we're going to hit it again and it's going to be in the minds of people already. Hopefully we come back and listen to it. So I appreciate that I will.
Speaker 2:I work not, so my's a little odd, but I appreciate the time folks. Thank you All. Right, man, no problem man, god bless you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming, brother.
Speaker 5:Have a good night of work. Listen. That just goes to show you how? Like-minded and of one accord. The Holy Spirit works, because I was literally going to read that as my last words tonight, because you had said earlier that we were going to get into that later on. Yep, but I don't know. Galatians is such a great book, such a great book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you like this book a lot yeah.
Speaker 5:Yes, I do, and like the Holy Spirit, the way he just read that and it went so weird, talking about the animals and the parts the good and the bad Yep, like it just kind of flowed so uniquely Amen, yep, but bad, it just kind of flowed so uniquely. I can't read that, so let's continue.
Speaker 1:We've got to find something else, brother Greg and then Angie.
Speaker 3:Jonathan, I want to ask you three or four questions. These aren't questions that are trying to prove something. I really want to know what you think. So the um, the blindness that paul talks about in romans 11, right, yep, do you think that's still in place?
Speaker 1:do? I think the blindness that is in that is important to the nation of Israel. Yeah, no, I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't, because I believe that you have that element, whatever it may be, and God only knows. There were those who are taken out of that. He removed a part in order that the Gentiles may be brought in, and so, in that way, one tree is made, which which combines Jew and Gentile alike. So, no, I don't believe that that blindness is in in a national sense, is still in play here, because they're really, when you look at it, that nation does not exist anymore the way we, the way the look at it, that nation does not exist anymore the way we, the way the bible speaks about that nation. What's over there now is not a biblical, is not the biblical israel yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well then I only have one question, because sure, since you said no to that, fine, okay. So my last words I liked what I said last night. Right, the law points to the cross. The cross points to an empty tomb. The empty tomb points to a risen and ascended king, and he's coming back.
Speaker 1:And, like you said, I think that, if we understand that, if we're going to talk about oneness like Meg brings up a lot, you know we talk about oneness it is in the people of God.
Speaker 1:We are one family in Christ, whether we be Jew or Gentile, and there are Jew, jewish, there are people who have, who are of Jewish descent, whether we know who they are, because remember when, when, when the Romans came in in 80, 70, they destroyed everything. There are no genealogies, there's no pedigree records, there's nothing like that. So we don't know who's who and there's nobody that can prove that they are tied to any tribe of Israel. That's done and gone. So the salvation, the salvation that people get today, has gone out to all people without distinction, irregardless of nationality or DNA. We are all one, whether you be Jew or whether you be Gentile, and I believe that everyone is now on equal footing. So the only blindness that exists now exists in all those, whether they be Jew or Gentile, who are not chosen to be saved in Christ and who are not given to Christ by the Father, to be redeemed by him and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:And so that's you know that's know, that's not a question.
Speaker 1:Hold on one second. I'm gonna get to angie and I'll go back to you. Angie, go ahead brother.
Speaker 6:I didn't have a question. I was saying hallelujah and amen to what that? What that guy was saying. I'm sorry I came in at the last, I taught bible study and had to cancel one of our sisters. But I mean, it's always a beautiful thing when you can get in the word and do that kind of thing. So but it's really interesting that you're talking about that, because we talked about the Abraham seed and then we did talk about that in study and then, you know, we were just going into about how Galatians. We went into Galatians and it was just you know that it was in five though, so we were, I went a bit above of what your study, what your study is about tonight. So but it's absolutely.
Speaker 6:I love the book of Galatians. I love how Paul just sets everything straight up and I love the way he speaks in it. It's just like, you know, because he is fighting up against, you know, people who are trying to come in and undo everything that Christ has done anyway, that he was supporting and trying to teach everyone. So I mean, this is absolutely true. I did come at the end. I was at the end.
Speaker 1:You still made it.
Speaker 6:I made it, yes.
Speaker 1:I did, Brother Craig. Did I cut you off or were you done with what you were going to say? Before I go to Meg? Did you finish? Yeah, I was done. Okay, good, All right, Meg. What were you going to say? Sister, Go ahead.
Speaker 4:Okay. So here's my question. My question is in Romans 11, right, it says right here, verse 25. Can you hear me, yep, hear you? Okay, it says, lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery. Brothers, a partial hardening has come upon israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in. Okay, I struggle with this verse, and the reason is is because number one, the fullness of the gentiles, I, I mean, I looked it up in the greek and it's player, player, aroma or whatever, but it means fullness, completion, the full number or fulfillment. Yeah, right, so in context, would we use the word fulfillment or would we use the word completion?
Speaker 1:it's the same completion fullness okay so so when that?
Speaker 4:what my I guess my first part of the question is when he says I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery brothers. And then he, he puts a colon there and then he reveals a partial hardening has come upon israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come. So when I read that in scripture I see okay, there's a partial hardening until means that it has a stopping point. When is that? Until the fullness of the gentiles has come in? So what is the fullness of the?
Speaker 1:gentiles read, read the next verse. It tells you in the first six words oh, I just have my notes, go ahead. And so all Israel shall be saved, as it is written so. So here's what happens. So take this, look at it like this you have a pie, right, and I'm just throwing, I'm just throwing out a percentage of the pie. So let's say the pie which represents Israel, it represents Israel, right.
Speaker 3:Whatever?
Speaker 1:we are calling Israel. There's a pie that represents 100% of Israel, Israel the nation. Israel the nation Okay, I mean not Israel the nation. Well, let me show you what I mean. The whole pie is Israel the nation. But then this talks about. But then Paul says that blindness came. Blindness came to part of that pie. Ok, part of that pie, and that part is is removed. Blindness is part. They don't have spiritual enlightenment I agree okay.
Speaker 1:Then he says this will take place until the fullness of the gentile comes in. So that means so. Here's what happens. So whatever part of that pie has been of the israel nation of israel has been removed out, it has been filled, or that vacuum has been filled by the gentiles. And then in verse 26, and it says so and so meaning, and in this manner or in this way, all israel shall be saved. Hearkening back to isaiah 45, verse 25, where he says that all of the seed of Israel shall be justified. But the only way that can be true is if Israel is not what is typically thought to be Israel.
Speaker 1:In a lot of people, christians of mine, today, israel is referring to the Israel of God, the spiritual Israel. So when you have that pie, and part of that natural Israel is taken out and the Gentiles are grafted in, now that new pie is comprised of Jew and Gentile and in that way all Israel will be saved. Why? Because now this is what spiritual Israel actually is. Going back to what I said earlier about John 3.16, when Christ says God so loved the world, there are people who are his, who are called to be his, from all different backgrounds, ethnicities and tongues. And so he says that when those when, when those who are blind are taken out, or those who are taken out of the olive tree, and when the gentiles are brought in, and when or when the sheep of the other fold are brought in, then it is in that way that all Israel shall be saved.
Speaker 1:And notice that he says this, all Israel will be saved.
Speaker 4:So that's both Jew and Gentile together as one nation. Absolutely Okay Now, so when? When that happens? So I, and I think a lot of people when they see this, they think of people as individuals. So many people see everything as individuals, but the body of Christ is one, Christ is one. It's one, yes, so one cannot see this as Gentiles. I've heard somebody say well, it's going to be until the end of the time, because there's still more Gentiles that need salvation, and I'm just like wow.
Speaker 1:There is, and this is the thing that's hard for a lot of people to grasp, and that is that there is one body, there is a finite number of those who are given by the father to the son to redeem and then to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. It is a finite number. It is not random. God is not waiting or hoping that everybody will come and realize through intellect or academia that they can understand the gospel. It has nothing to do with that. God has called out people who are chosen according to the election of grace.
Speaker 4:Yes, because he says all that the father has given me will come.
Speaker 1:And that is what is being said here in verse 26. And so all Israel shall be saved. And notice what he says All Israel will be saved. Are all mankind? Is all mankind saved? No, no. But he says all Israel shall be saved. He gets it from Isaiah 45, 25. All Israel shall be justified. Are all people on earth going to be saved?
Speaker 1:No, you have a couple of clowns on here that like to tell people that no one's going to hell or that everyone's going to, even those people who go to hell are going to come out, and so that everybody in the world is going to be saved. No, no, that's not going to be the case. There's an elect people chosen by god according to the election of grace. Again, what is paul talking about in galatians? Those who hear, those who, who, who are justified by faith. They come to faith by the hearing of faith, not by the law of works. So the thing is there is no one. There is no one who is not going to be saved, that God has decreed to be saved.
Speaker 5:Jonathan, we got a Galatians 6. Yep 6.16? Has decreed to be saved. Jonathan, will you go to?
Speaker 1:Galatians 6? Yep 6.16?.
Speaker 5:I would say well, it's in there. I was going to say 14, but if you want to go back a couple of verses for context, I'll go back. Based on what she just said and you just said too, yeah, so I'll do it in 14. And, by the way, as far as that we are the Israel of God.
Speaker 1:That, yeah, so I'll do it. And, by the way, as far as that we aren't the israel of god.
Speaker 5:That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm gonna read, that's what we're gonna read right now. Absolutely. People don't get that. They don't get that either nope.
Speaker 1:It says in verse 14. But god forbid that I should glory except in the cross of our lord jesus christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me and I unto the world, for in Christ, in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision avails nor anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature, and as many as walk according to this rule. Peace be upon them and mercy upon the Israel of God. From henceforth, let no man trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. And remember he's talking to Gentiles. So the reality is we are the Israel of God, the believer, jew and Gentile alike. Paul says in Romans, chapter two, verse 28, 29,. He is a Jew who is a Jew inwardly, not one who is outwardly, according to the flesh, but one who is circumcised in the heart.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 1:Man, that's fire, and this is what people have a hard time understanding. They want to make everything about Jewish people in the nation of Israel Pretty much anybody who has an address over there. People consider to be, oh, the great people. I'm not saying that there are not Jews that are saved. There are Jews. There are people who live over there who are national Jews, not religious Jews, because no religious Jew can be a Christian, and they will tell you they're not. They will tell you that the belief that we have that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, they will tell us that you're crazy. He is not the Messiah. And yet you have Christians running behind them, chasing after them like they're some kind of heavenly glow that they need to harness from people that live in that piece of dirt over there. And I don't mean that irreverently, because here is dirt too. What I'm saying is it's not about the location of the G, the geography, it's about faith. It's about faith and faith only. And here's the thing it has always been that way.
Speaker 4:Also, why do we, why do we find it so confounds that? Just because that people messed it up in the scripture?
Speaker 1:I mean saying like to pray for israel, or pray for these, this stuff that's going on, it's, it's there, it's nuts and I, I don't know well, well, first of all, I don't get wrapped up in all that kind of stuff because you know, because if you deal with it, if you want to, if you really want to deal with the reality from a people standpoint, from the people standpoint, the Palestinians have more of a claim than people realize, but that's another discussion. But what we need to be able to do is continue to teach and preach the gospel to all people.
Speaker 4:And because we don't know who the Lord elected. That's why we have to go do it.
Speaker 1:When it comes to praying for people, we don't just pray for Israel. We pray for Israel. We pray for China and India and Brazil and Africa and Russia and DR.
Speaker 5:Pray for the lost, that they be found Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Remember, israel is our enemy because of the gospel and Jesus said pray for your enemies and bless them who persecute you. That's why, we pray for Israel because they're our enemy.
Speaker 5:When they thirst. Give them water if they're hungry that's for everybody, everybody.
Speaker 1:It's not just for israel or jews, it's for everybody for the lost for the lost the scripture tells us that he who wins souls is wise, and he doesn't say he who wins jewish souls. Because we, we have this whole idea that when a person who we consider to be a Jew gets saved, we're supposed to open up the Red Sea again. It's like no, they're just like you and I. Nothing special, I'm nothing special, they're nothing special, you're nothing special. We are the base made special by God. God according to the election of grace.
Speaker 4:So in the belief of Muslims, compared to Jews, don't they believe basically the same thing? Pretty much, pretty much. Well then, why is it that they don't like each other?
Speaker 1:Well, that goes back as far as Ishmael and Isaac and all that kind of stuff like that.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:They're brothers, they're brothers, yeah, they're brothers.