The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Abraham Believed God (Part 1 of 5)
Abraham's family isn't defined by bloodlines, DNA, or ethnicity – it's determined solely by faith. This eye-opening exploration of Galatians 3:6-8 challenges prevalent misconceptions about who truly belongs in God's family.
When Paul writes that "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness," he establishes the prototype for justification by faith alone. The startling truth? "Being Jewish means nothing" regarding salvation. The physical land in the Middle East? Spiritually meaningless compared to the faith that connects believers to Abraham.
We dive deep into the forensic nature of justification – how Abraham's belief was credited to his account as righteousness, wiping away his spiritual debt. This legal transaction is what happens for every true believer, regardless of heritage. As one panel member powerfully states, justification means we're treated "just as if we had never sinned."
Why do so many Christians struggle with this message? Perhaps because we get "bored" with the simplicity of faith. We create elaborate religious systems to feel we're contributing something to our salvation when God requires only faith – a faith that itself is His gift to us.
The implications are revolutionary. There's no spiritual distinction between ethnic groups in God's economy. All humanity stands equally condemned without Christ and equally blessed through faith. This is God's true vision of equality – not based on human categories but on our relationship to Christ.
If you're tired of religious performance and hungry for the liberating truth of grace, join us for this profound discussion about what it truly means to be part of Abraham's family affair. Discover why salvation is "about a work that only God can do" and why that's the best news you'll ever hear.
Christians, good evening, hope you're having a good Friday night and I hope you don't get too crazy tonight or too crazy this weekend. But for those of you who are inclined to engage in things spiritual, here we are Going to talk about something that we've been dealing with over the last couple of weeks, and that is this exposition through the book of Galatians. The book of Galatians, and now I come to Galatians, chapter 3. And I'm going to be picking up in Galatians, chapter 3, and in verses 6 through 8. Now it's important that we understand what we're about to read, because in Galatians 3, 6 through 8, we're going to talk about Abraham and his seed, his family, his real family. This is what we're going to be dealing with, and the concept involved here requires thinking on a different level than what the natural man likes to embrace or the way a thinking person in the natural likes to think, like to think. So what I want to try to do is to, with the help of people who come on board and who are on the panel and other people who are listening to, sort of detail what it is that we are going to be talking about with regard to Abraham's family.
Speaker 1:Now I I titled this message and this talk. I've titled it Abraham's family affair. Abraham's family affair that's what I call it, and what is going to be absolutely essential for everyone to lay hold of is that there is definitely a distinction that God makes between the spiritual and natural, and what I mean by that is the spiritual offspring of God versus the natural offspring. And so we need to I mean, when it comes to Abraham actually not God is what I meant, but it's still tied to God when we deal with the spiritual connection that believers have with Abraham is tied to the spirituality of those who have faith with God, who have faith in God. Now let me read Galatians, chapter 3, verse 6 through 8 and it says this, even as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Speaker 1:Know ye, therefore, that they which are of faith, they which are of faith, the same meaning, those who are of faith, these are the children of Abraham, and the scripture foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith preached before the gospel unto Abraham saying in thee shall all nations be blessed.
Speaker 1:Now, last week we dealt with the issue of the natural Israelites, natural Israel, and I pointed out and I showed several verses I believe five or six, five or six verses where it shows clearly in the word of God that all of the promises that God made to national Israel, the physical Israel, the fleshly Israel, all of those things have been fulfilled. All of those things have been fulfilled 100%. God made his promises and he kept them. And this is a significant fact, because you have so many Christians today who believe, as a result of faulty dispensational or the faulty dispensational system, that there are still things that God has not fulfilled with natural Israel, which must be fulfilled later. And that is not true and I intend to point that out here.
Speaker 1:Natural Israel and spiritual Israel are two different things. They are two different groups of people. They are not the same people, they're not related, they are completely different groups. And the thing is, only those, as I intend to show, only those who have the faith that Abraham had, only those are Abraham's offspring and therefore sons of God. It's not difficult For the world. This is difficult For the unbelieving Christian, this is impossible to believe, but to those who do believe you understand something that is very essential. Believe you understand something that is very essential, that that, what paul is making his case of in this passage in james, in galatians one and two, in this book in general, is that justification is by faith. We are justified by faith.
Speaker 1:You being of the bloodline of any tribe in Israel does not give you a direct connection, warrant or salvation, nor does it give you any interest in Christ whatsoever. Being Jewish means nothing. It means nothing. If anything, it works completely against you. If what we mean by being Jewish is that you subscribe to Judaism, I'm not talking about anything ethnic. What needs to be understood is that ethnicity, bloodline, DNA, none of these things have anything whatsoever to do with salvation and they have no interest in and of themselves or by themselves, apart from faith in God, faith in Christ for salvation, none of it. Being Jewish grants you nothing. There are no special favors, there are no special blessings, there is nothing. That land over there in the Middle East means deadly. It means nothing, and this is what needs to be understood. And God never said it would be otherwise. He never said it would be otherwise.
Speaker 1:So we come to these passages and Paul is still trying to prove that justification is by faith. He is trying to explain something that he didn't think that he or expected that he would ever have to explain again to the Galatians. He never considered that he'd have to bring the subject up again. He never considered that the Galatians, who had come to believe in justification by faith, he never thought that they would start to go back to beggarly elements, to add those things to the grace that they've been given in order to perfect, in order to perfect the grace that they have been given. In other words, paul never considered and did not understand how they could be so bewitched as to believe that the law, in any part of it, could have anything to do with being integrated into grace for salvation.
Speaker 1:You are either saved by keeping the law by the works of the law, or you're saved by grace. Good luck if it is your perspective that you can be saved by the works of the law, because that is impossible. And if it were even remotely possible in the slightest, then there would have been no need for our Lord and Savior, jesus Christ, to come. There would have been no need for it whatsoever. Now here's something else I want to tell you. There are so many people, these so-called Torah keepers, these goofballs, who think they know what they're talking about, and they want to sound profound and deep when they talk to people and they want to think they talk over your head. Somehow what they're saying is going to be more embraced, even though not understood. In fact, they don't even care if what they're telling you is understood, so long as they made you believe that they said something marvelous, when all they have said is nonsense. But let me explain something to you.
Speaker 1:You are saved by grace through faith, and that grace is unmerited favor, and the faith that gets you that grace is a gift from God. It's a gift. So both of these two things unmerited favor and the gift imply something, not even imply. They explicitly says something that is poignant and should be understood. It means that there is nothing on the part of man that can obtain what grace through faith gains. Grace is unmerited favor, so that means that man can't earn it and that means that the salvation that is given to man cannot be a matter of debt. Grace and debt are enemies.
Speaker 1:And it also means that if you're saved by grace, that grace is laid hold of by faith, and that faith that lays hold of the grace that saves is a gift given by God. That's something laid a hold of by the sinner, who is dead and sinning trespasses. And the last time I checked, there's nothing a dead person can lay hold of or grab or think about. There's nothing that dead souls contemplate. There's nothing that dead souls have the ability to choose or select this way or that way on any given matter. On any given matter, no matter what it is For salvation to be, what the Bible depicts it as being, there is nothing on the part of man that he contributes to that fact, unless you want to consider sin a contribution, because that is what is required the recognition that you are a sinner, and even repentance. Even repentance is a gift from God. Repentance is a gift. It's not, it is not a conclusion that men come to of their own intellect.
Speaker 2:It is a gift.
Speaker 1:So now, before I go on and start to discuss starting from Galatians, chapter 3, verse 6, verses 6 through 8, I want to get opening thoughts from the folks that are on the panel, who I esteem very highly and contribute so much to these messages to make it a more engaging discussion. So, that being said, I want to go around and I want to ask for the folks on the panel for their opening remarks, ideas, thoughts, whatever it is they may be. Let me start with Sister Ange. What do you think, sister, so far?
Speaker 3:Hello brother you know, just reading what I had here and I think it's beautiful because you know I always love my translation and I don't want to say it's better than anyone else's at all at all. It's just a word of God. But I want to read and you know, just John 12 and 13 for my, for my book and it says but as too many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to be on children of God. And this is the favorite part, not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of god that right there just sets it all to presidents of what you're trying, what you're teaching tonight. Is it? Where does it get to? Where it's a human effort, right? It's not right so absolutely.
Speaker 3:that's where. So I mean there's nothing of our doing that we can do based on our salvation, as in it's the work of Christ and God and not anything of us, absolutely. As long as we don't deny ourselves, that's right, absolutely stand on that.
Speaker 3:I just want to say God bless you. I'm so glad we're all here tonight. I love how we can get in a discussion and we're all in one accord. You can see all of us in this panel and some that come regularly in the discussion and the comments To say we're all in one accord because you see that, but also be in alignment with God's word.
Speaker 1:Right, Absolutely. Thank you, Sister. We're going to talk tomorrow too. I got your good news. I meant to write to you.
Speaker 3:God bless you. Everything is working out for you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brother. Thank you, brother Gray comments Opening thoughts. Greg you there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nothing, so much as of yet.
Speaker 1:All right, no problem, I can live with that, brother Jeffrey. Comments opening thoughts ideas.
Speaker 4:Well, good evening Jonathan, good evening panel. Thank you all for coming into Jonathan's live tonight. I think we're in for another treat and for another night of enlightening and learning. So let's dig in here to what we've got.
Speaker 4:Jonathan, I just want to say that the opening remark you had about how the grace of God makes us all one there's no distinction anymore between Jew, gentile, race, ethnicity or anything else, and I've often thought of that as God's vision or version of equality. Here's how that works. Very briefly, jonathan the eternal soul that resides within your handsome black body and the eternal soul that rests in the old white body of this old white guy. Both of them will burn equally well in the fires of hell if they both reject christ during the course of their lives. Consequently and conversely, they will both prosper, they will both be blessed, they will both be a blessing to others if they receive the miraculous forgiving grace of Christ. That is God's version or vision to me, jonathan, of true equality that is given to us only only through the blood of Jesus Christ, which is why the world cannot solve the racism problem that it struggles with. They don't have the solution the blood of Jesus, they reject that. So they're stuck in the problem.
Speaker 4:But anyway, looking forward to your study tonight. God bless you, brother. Let's dig into this thing and see what God has for us. Okay, looking forward to it, brother.
Speaker 1:Oh, sorry about that, that was an accident. Sure thing. Banana Pancakes what do you think, sister? How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Hey, hi panel, hey everyone. I'm excited to be here. I got the good book open and ready to go and so far, what you have mentioned really gets me thinking of Romans 12.3. It says, for I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith, soberly as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. So, yeah, this doesn't say we earned it by works, and I don't know if it's the intention of it. But himself more highly than he ought to think makes me think of that attitude that people tend to get, maybe unintentionally or purposely, but just showing off like, oh, look at all the things I do, I keep this, I do this and I'm so good by my own work.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely. And, sister, I want to encourage you to keep doing what you were doing the other night. I know you're doing your thing, so keep it up. You know what I'm talking about, so keep it up. Superbly how you talking about. So keep it up Superbally how you doing, brother, good to have you in here tonight again.
Speaker 5:Good evening.
Speaker 6:No opening so far. Just looking forward to getting into the word and discussing it and edifying each other. So yeah, just looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:All right, brother, looking forward to the engagement God's word. How about you Opening comments, remarks, thoughts, ideas.
Speaker 6:I totally agree with what all you're saying there. It all goes back to the friendship of and I kind of brought this up the other day and you never thought about it before, but I just so happened to be reading in the Psalms the night before you got live and that friendship verse came up again and I was thinking about actually messaging and then you came on talking about it and I was like, oh my god, go ahead and bring this up as part of the introduction to it. But the, the friendship of this from psalms 25, the friendship of the lord is for those who fear him and he makes his covenant known to them. Well, we were talking about the other day the law was put in place for fear, but the covenant that is known is the grace, that's the covenant of Christ, is the grace, the love right there. And he made that known to Abram. The fear was once he seen not Abraham's works but God's work by creating Isaac. The promise works but God's work by creating Isaac the promise. It wasn't until he put, like we talked about the other day, he put that faith of taking Isaac up there to sacrifice because he had seen not his own works but God's works.
Speaker 6:And if you notice what Christ says, too, as the example don't believe me, not my works that I'm doing. Believe the works that are in me. Believe those works. That's what he was trying to tell us. Don't believe me, not my works that I'm doing. Believe the works that are in me. Believe those words. That's what he was trying to do. If you don't believe me, because you know you're gonna say I'm a man, don't believe me. Believe the works that are in me right, absolutely, brother.
Speaker 1:Candy opening remarks Marks you there.
Speaker 7:Candy, I'm here.
Speaker 1:All right, go ahead. What do you want to say?
Speaker 7:Really, I'm just excited to hear what's going to be said tonight and, as we all know, it's only by faith. That's all we have to live with, that's all we can use, that's all we can think about. Stand fast in faith.
Speaker 1:Quit being a liar and be strong. That's right. You know, brethren, here's what I think. Here's what I honestly really think is I think that for these, so far, just over two millennia, I think that we hear and we talk about and we read about God's grace, god's love, god's favor, god's mercy, god's compassion. We read all these things and we talk about faith at the apex of all of this, which gives us access to all these blessings.
Speaker 6:I think some of us get bored.
Speaker 1:I think some of us really get bored. What I mean by that is that there are a lot of those who call themselves Christians who get bored with just trying to lay hold of what faith is, and that's all that is required. And so it leads people to go down these different paths where they need to create different things to render what we have in Christ more grandiose, as if salvation by grace, through faith, isn't the pinnacle Of what salvation is all about. Now, I don't understand. It's like. It's like they need these various and spurious religious excitements. They need to be injected into what this is all about. But when it comes down to this, it comes down to just this Faith Faith in the Lord God and His finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, trusting Him as our Lord and Savior. But men want a big old song and dance about everything.
Speaker 4:They just do.
Speaker 1:They just do. They just do. They want to be a part of the contribution that God has made to their salvation and they want to say that what? And they want to say, and they talk as if God hasn't done it all and he needs you to finish what he started. Salvation is not about finishing a work that God has started. Salvation is about a work that only God can do, period, and man has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation. Zero. It is simply what God has chosen to do on the behalf of his elected few. This is something that a lot of people don't like, but it is a fact, as we are going to make very clear in these words that we're about to talk about right now, that I'm going to get into God's word.
Speaker 6:Go ahead. He's going to say they love those song and dances, just like they were wanting a song and dance with their idol of the calf when they rejected their Savior that brought them out of the land of Egypt. Then they sought to. You know, they reverted back. There's nothing new that those who claim to have the faith they've seen the works of God not their own works, but the works of God They'll turn their back to them. Right, you didn't know what you were saying.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. So let's do verse six. It says even as Abraham, even as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye, therefore, that they which are of faith the same are the children of God, are children of Abraham, that they which are of faith, the same are the children of God, are children of Abraham. Paul says even as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. So we have three things that are at play here Abraham believed God. Number one and two it was accounted to him. And number three it was accounted to him for righteousness. So here's the picture here. Here's a picture here, because we have to understand, first and foremost, that Abraham is the model, he's the prototype for the case that Paul is building now.
Speaker 1:Abraham is the prototype for justification by faith. Now, if you remember, for those of you and I know most of you do know this justification is a forensic term, it is a legal term. Legal, it means you are, if you've been justified, you are no longer guilty. And not only are you no longer guilty, like in the case of Abraham. Even as Abraham, not only are you no longer guilty, but even as Abraham verse 6, even as he believed God. It was accounted.
Speaker 1:What was accounted, his belief, his belief in whom God, in whom God and all that God has promised, related to Abraham, which Abraham knew full well about the expected seed who would come that would provide for his ultimate redemption, not just Isaac's, but also his own. So Abraham believed God and it that belief was accounted, and this is where we get into the legal aspect of it. It was accounted, in other words, no longer is he guilty of his sin, no longer will he be held responsible for his sin and there's no longer any retribution for him to look forward to or to expect in the future. Because he believed God and it was accounted to him, put to his account. Think of it like QuickBooks or some Excel spreadsheet, in other words, in the general ledger that does all of God's bookkeeping. In the general ledger there is no more debt that Abraham has with God. Why? Because he believed God and that belief credited him. With what Righteousness.
Speaker 4:Brother Jeffrey go ahead. Let me jump in real quick here and share a thought on justification. I may have shared this and justification. I may have shared this thought before. But justification, jonathan, means just as if we had never sinned ever. Right Now folks go back in your life and think about some of the things that God has had to forgive. I know that's not a pleasant thought at least for me it isn't anyway but the grace of God applied to that means and the justification means, as far as God is concerned, it never happened. It never happened, it did. But when grace was applied, it's the same now as if it never did you can't yeah jonathan, you see what I'm saying you can't get more forgiven than that, right?
Speaker 4:so yeah, I just wanted to share that. Thanks, thanks, brother, uh candy girl, you're next.
Speaker 7:Candy Girl you're next. I just look at 1 Thessalonians 1, verse 3 and 4, or verse 3. So remember, without facing your work of faith and labor of love and patient, of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God, our Father. And then, if you go to Romans 4, I'll start with verse 2. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God. For what said the scripture? Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now, to him that worketh in the reward, not reckoned of grace but of debt, but to him that worketh not but believe on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Speaker 7:So we don't do anything. The work we keep hearing like the good works. The only work we can actually do as believers is faith, work and keeping the faith and believing in what we can't see. But we read, we hear. Believe, that's faith, that's all we got, that's all we can live by. Like, I can't, I don't know, man, I told you the Galatians. I've been on Galatians for a minute and then you started doing this on it and it's just. It's so powerful to understand. Once that light bulb clicks on and you put that switch. It's no matter what in this world right now. Once we become believers of Jesus Christ and are in him and he is in us, there's nothing. We just have to be patient in the Lord, trust and believe what he has told us and just let him work through us and just believe, just believe. No matter what, just believe.
Speaker 1:Amen, sister Appreciate that God's word. Go ahead.
Speaker 6:I was just going to add, kind of tied to what the guy was talking about, about race and people who have sinned, and kind of tied into a main event, because I was watching TV here while we were talking a little bit too, and I've noticed going through TikTok, hulk Hogan just passed away. Hulk Hogan was a self-proclaimed Christian. He just got recently baptized and, as you know, hulk Hogan had some controversial things that he had done in the past. A sinner, just like any other essence Absolutely.
Speaker 6:You and other people here that would have been descendants of people of that thing would have been offended by what he would have said. Does that mean that he's not in the grace of our Father in Heaven? Because he said that back then. That's what I was thinking about exactly when he was sitting there, because they were talking about the thing that this man had done and hadn't done. And I noticed that a lot of Christians, self-proclaimed Christians, on here saying that man's burning in hell for what he said and that's not understanding the grace of God. And I just wanted to add what, using the modern day example of something that was going on, what he was talking about there, about the grace and that's all being centered.
Speaker 1:I was going to post on something. I was going to post on something about that today, and I may get to it tomorrow, but I understand exactly what you're saying, brother, and I appreciate those words. I really believe what you said is absolutely the truth. Brother Kung Fu, this is your first time on here, so with us any opening remarks you want to have joining us for the first time. What's your thoughts so far?
Speaker 5:So I think everybody knows Jesus Christ. Okay, I'm from Germany and it's a really hard time as a Christ Jesus loving human in this place. Why so Jesus? Jesus don't like to disrespect someone, so God is on his side, his father, and I must love and accept everyone. When someone is not believe in Jesus, it's no problem. Everyone. When someone is not believing in Jesus, there's no problem. But the problem here in the Europe community is there is so many people destruct and bring many destruction in this world, in our world, in Jesus' knowledge that I know. So I must have many respect about the things about my English not so good. They have so many fucking problems before.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, hold on, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question, number one. I want to say something at the outset. I hope that you can refrain from the foul language. Yes, number one, if you don't mind. And number two I want to ask are you a Christian, are you a believer?
Speaker 5:Absolutely. I live in a church.
Speaker 1:Okay, good. Well, you know what, brother, what you're saying, I definitely get. I definitely get what you're saying and I'm hoping that, as we go through this message and other messages in the future, that we can continue to emphasize the fact that what you're saying because what it sounds like you're saying is that we have to have this sort of acceptance of people, yes, and that I understand. Let me just say this the reason why me and, I hope, many other Christians like yourself and others will do things and engage people in this way is because it's not just more than respect.
Speaker 6:Yes, it is love it is.
Speaker 1:What we should be exhibiting is a love for mankind and the desire to see them not having to undergo the wrath of God.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and that whole Situation Is incumbent upon the lost soul. That lost soul's ability To come to the faith that we're talking about tonight, which I believe all of us, including yourself, sounds like you may have. Now we don't I don't know you very well yet, but I hope to get to know you. But my point is we as believers because we don't get brownie points for doing this I don't get paid for this and everybody here, including yourself, you're not getting paid for sitting here and us having this conversation. But what we want, what we do want is for other people to hear that there is a way for a man to be reconciled to God, apart from works of the law, to be saved by grace. And this is what I want to continue to herald in this world, and I hope that I get to do that with you and everybody else here as my fellow companion in that exercise, in that role, in that vocation, which is tough, you understand.
Speaker 5:Yes, I understand Very tough. Can I ask a question? Sure, Okay. So when you're a Christian, you see a sick person, you help him. What's that when you see a situation.