The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Ransom & Redeemed (Part 1 of 5)
The concept of ransom sits at the heart of Christianity, yet few believers truly grasp its profound implications for their salvation. In this thought-provoking episode, we challenge the prevailing narrative that salvation ultimately hinges on human choice rather than God's sovereign grace.
Starting with an unexpected connection to Kanye West's controversial 2018 statement about slavery being a "choice," we explore how this flawed logic mirrors the way many Christians mistakenly view salvation. When Christ is described as paying a "ransom" in Scripture, this language carries specific meaning that fundamentally contradicts the idea of free will determining our spiritual destiny.
Diving into the original Greek word "lutron," we unpack what ransom truly meant to first-century believers—a payment made to secure the release of someone in bondage who lacked the agency to free themselves. This presents a crucial question: if we were truly free to choose God, why would a ransom be necessary at all?
We examine pivotal texts in Matthew 20:28, Mark 10:45, and 1 Timothy 2:6 where Christ is described as "giving his life as a ransom for many." The specific language used here points to God's electing grace rather than universal opportunity dependent on human decision.
The spiritual state of humanity isn't merely sickness but death—we aren't spiritually compromised but spiritually lifeless until God intervenes. Like Ezekiel's vision of dry bones coming to life, our salvation depends entirely on divine animation, not human initiative. This understanding doesn't diminish our value but magnifies God's mercy in saving those who could never save themselves.
For believers seeking deeper theological understanding, this episode offers clarity on a doctrine often misrepresented in contemporary church culture. Join us as we reclaim the biblical truth that we worship not a God who hopes we'll choose Him, but a sovereign Lord who accomplishes exactly what He intends—the complete redemption of His people.
Christians, I hope you're having a good evening tonight, wherever you may be, whatever time it may be where you are. Tonight I want to be talking about a subject regarding something that is essential to be understood in our Christian faith. I've labeled this discussion the ransomed and the redeemed. The ransomed and the redeemed. The ransomed and the redeemed. Christ was made a ransom, and what I want to discuss tonight is what that means to the believer. What are we supposed to understand the ransom that Christ made? What are we supposed to understand the ransom that Christ made? What are we supposed to understand that means?
Speaker 1:Now, most of us, most of us understand in our minds what a ransom involves, and it is often associated with kidnappings. Somebody gets kidnapped and the person who does the kidnapping seeks to sell their control over the person kidnapped. And the one who does, who pays, and that is called a ransom. But the one who pays the ransom, their goal is to make the payment in order to a cessation of control by the party who did the kidnapping. Stick with me here for a while and I hope that I will, by God's grace, make it all make sense to you. That is my goal to hope that it will make sense to you. That is my goal. To hope that it will make sense to you Now. A ransom, the ransom that was paid for us by Christ, implies a lot of things. It implies a lot of things, and a misunderstanding of these things Can prove detrimental to how you understand your salvation and detrimental to how you convey God's word To the lost.
Speaker 1:Now I want to bring to your mind something that happened in the year 2018, which seemed like such a long time to go, such a long time ago 2018. A long time time ago, 2018, in that year, kanye West made a staggering proclamation. Kanye West, anytime he opens his mouth, it is staggering. But in 2018, he says something that was profoundly considered to be ridiculous by all accounts, even to me. Even to me, I could not believe what he was saying, but when I was contemplating the subject matter for tonight, I had sudden recall regarding what he said, regarding what he said, and then I began to see what he said in a whole different light. In a whole different light. Now I'm going to say it. I'm going to say what he said, but what I want you to understand is that I'm not endorsing what he said in the sense that you may think. In other words, I'm not endorsing what he said from a cultural, popular culture standpoint, but what I am going to do is point out that what he said had a lot of poignancy when it comes to the gospel that is preached by those Christians Hear me now by those Christians who oppose the truth. Let me tell you what he said For those of you who may not have heard, and for those of you who may have forgotten what Kanye West said in 2018. And he said this. It struck deep. Ooh, it struck deep.
Speaker 1:He said slavery was a choice, was a choice. Kanye West said that slavery was a choice, talking about the enslavement of black folks in America. He is saying, as a black man, that slavery in America shadow slavery of black people in America was a choice on the behalf of the black folks who were enslaved. This is what he said. And then, when he was questioned about it, his response was hey, man, 400 years. If you've been a slave for 400 years, at some point you have to call it a choice. That's what he said. I'm just telling you what the man said. I'm just telling you what the man said. Do I believe, in those circumstances, that that was a choice? Obviously not. That was an idiotic, asinine statement Lacking every aspect Of intelligence that one can muster, however aspect of intelligence that one can muster, however, I will say this Unbeknownst to himself, he was on to something. Kanye West was on to something when he said that slavery was a choice. Not in the sense before somebody starts attacking me and leveling all kinds of silliness not in the sense of an actual cultural situation situation, but there is a theological sense, or I should say a perceived theological sense, where what he said has a lot of relevance. A lot of relevance. Here's what I mean. A lot of relevance. Here's what I mean when you say that a person like Kanye said what he said. If you believe, like he said, that a person or people who were enslaved were enslaved by their own choice, then how is that?
Speaker 1:Unlike what people in the Christian circles often say about how they became saved or how they refrained from being saved, it is a common belief, I would offer that, by the majority of popular Christianity today, christians, these unbelieving Christians, these apostate souls who call themselves Christians, will tell you that whether they are saved or whether they are not saved, it is the result of their choice.
Speaker 1:This is what they say If I am saved, it is my choice. If I reject Christ upon hearing the gospel, it is my choice. This is what modern, popular, particularly non-denominational Christianity would tell you. If I'm saved or if I'm not saved, it is the result of my choice. Christ did everything that he could do, but salvation or not to be saved or to not be saved is the result of my choice. Now one friend here, mighty Mitch. He says maybe, but it does not match that of black folks it does. This is what Christians Today Are telling people On a daily basis. I hear it every single day Just about my salvation Is the result of the exercise or the exertion of my will my choice.
Speaker 2:It would be a work salvation.
Speaker 1:It would be. But let me finish. I'm going to open it up in a second to you, brother. So stay with me, because I want to hear what you have to say, because you're right, it would be a work salvation. So now, here's what I want to point out. Here's what I want to point out Ransom In the Bible, ransom, it comes from a Greek word Lutron, lutron, l-u-t-r-o-n.
Speaker 1:Forgive me for breaking out the Greek, but in this respect it's going to be significant. If you understand what I'm saying. Ransom means Lutron, and that's the singular version of it. The plural version which is mostly used Is Lutron, and that's the singular version of it. The plural version which is mostly used is Lutra, lutron, lutra, singular plural. It designates. This is what it means. Here's what it means.
Speaker 1:It means indemnification. It means indemnification. It means indemnification in a pecuniary compensation that is given in exchange for the cessation of rights over the person being ransomed for from the person who has usurped authority over that soul. Let me say this again, let me try to make it, let me try to simplify it A ransom in the Bible Means that the person who is paying the ransom Is indemnifying the person person ransomed from the governorship of the person who has control over them. The person who is paying the ransom is paying the ransom to conclude, or to provide a cessation, a ceasing of the bondage imposed upon the person being ransomed for I hope this makes sense A cessation of rights. When someone captures you and brings you into bondage, you have no rights. You have no rights, so the person paying the ransom is freeing you from that bondage. The person paying the ransom is freeing you from that bondage, and this is important.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get back to Kanye West, what he said at the end of this discussion that we're embarking upon right now. Jabba, hang with me, because I want you to stay here. I want to hear what you have to say. Now let me read three verses and then I want to go around to those who are on the panel and get your opening, ideas, thoughts, perspectives, whatever it may be, whatever it may be. So now here we go.
Speaker 1:Matthew, chapter 20. Now, keep in mind in the scriptures in the New Testament, ransom shows up three times. I'm going to read all three verses. Number one Matthew 20, verse 28. Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto but to minister and to give his life a ransom for many. A ransom for many and, by the way, a ransom for many, not all many.
Speaker 1:Next, mark, the gospel of Mark, chapter 10, verse 45. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister and to give his life a ransom for many. It is clear that this is a parallel verse, paralleling what was spoken of by Matthew. And then there's a third instance in which the term ransom is used, and it's in 1 Timothy 2, verse 6, which states Paul says about Christ, who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time. It is clear that Christ paid a ransom for the many. Christ paid a ransom for the many and he paid a ransom for all of those who come under the umbrella of the many. But we're not going to talk about specifically the atonement. We're going to talk about the ransom aspect of it. So before I go on now, I want to invite those who are on our panel to give me their opening insights, thoughts, ideas on what we're talking about. No sermons, try to be as succinct as you possibly can. Let me start with Brother Jabba.
Speaker 2:Jabba Jabba. I'm not sure if I'm saying it right, brother, but go ahead, let's say Jabba the Jabba, like in Jabba the Hood, jabba the Hood, I got it All right. So I'm intrigued by the word many, and right now I'm trying to look up that word. Do you have it handy? Maybe Do you have it handy the word that was used to mark in Matthew, the Greek word of many.
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you, the Greek word is easy to get, but I can tell you it's exactly what it says Many, not all.
Speaker 2:Not all. Okay, so that means that not everybody's going to get it right. That's right. And this makes it a little bit tough because, you know, you think everybody should be able to get it. Put it this way Anybody can get it.
Speaker 1:Everyone can't get it, Like many are called but few are chosen.
Speaker 2:Few are chosen, that's right, right are called, but fewer chosen. Fewer chosen, that's right, right. But the problem I have with that is that gives me the ability to spring on my ego a little bit. Hey, I'm called. You don't get it, but I do. But knowing who Jesus is and studying him for a long time, he's kind of a judo master. So you know, if I push, he pulls. That tells me the people who don't get it are the ones who do, the weak.
Speaker 1:If you have a concordance, Jabba, my sister Mariah just gave you the reference in the Greek concordance it is 4183.
Speaker 2:4183? 4183.
Speaker 3:It means many, a large number or multitude. The word is polis P-O-L-Y-S.
Speaker 2:Okay, so again, that's not all. I think the key to this whole passage is not everybody's going to get this. No, they're not Right.
Speaker 1:Nor was it ever intended that they should.
Speaker 2:Right. So I have to question am I the one that gets it or am I the one that don't? Only you will know that that's between you and the Lord, right? What would God tell me? Pardon me. What would God tell you? What would he tell you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. Okay, here's what I'll say to you, jabba, here's what I'll say. If you want to know that you rank among the many, if you want to know that you rank among the many, all it takes is belief in the one who came and paid the ransom for your soul, that's the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other evidence than faith in him that you are amongst that group. Okay, hold on one second. Let me say one more thing. Go ahead. Those who are not in that many, those who are not in that group. They don't care that they're not in their group. They don't aspire to be a part of that group. And yet you will find Christians, people that call themselves Christians, fighting for something that the people who don't have don't want.
Speaker 2:They don't care about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that, but that kind of takes me to Job now.
Speaker 1:In what sense?
Speaker 2:Job. He was there right, but he wasn't all the way there.
Speaker 1:Job was a believer.
Speaker 2:He was a believer, but he had a few more steps to take. He had a little bit more to do.
Speaker 1:There are no more steps to faith. There is nothing to indicate at any part in Job's life, as far as what is recorded, that he was never a believer.
Speaker 2:No, no, yeah, Right, right, but even still, he was tested. Of course, he was All of us are Exactly, but only Christians.
Speaker 1:Only Christians are tested.
Speaker 2:Only Christians are willing to be tested.
Speaker 1:No, only Christians are tested. It's not a choice. What choice? Let me ask you something, brother. What choice did Job have in being tested? Job didn't even know what was going on.
Speaker 2:He could have just cursed God and died.
Speaker 1:But he didn't, because he was a believer. We already established that.
Speaker 2:So he made the choice though.
Speaker 1:No, he didn't.
Speaker 2:Oh, well, because he knew.
Speaker 1:Job was already a believer. That's what all we know, brother. All we know is this yeah, joe was a book hold on. What we know is that job was a believer. There's no reason to go any further than that. We have no, no understanding about him prior to him coming to faith and how he came to faith okay, so that that's exactly what I'm wrestling with.
Speaker 2:that's exactly what I'm wrestling with right now did, because I feel like there's days that I just don't have a choice, because I believe Let me tell you something, bro.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you what I think. I'm glad I don't have a choice, because I know what my choice would be if I had my own choice, right. And I know what my choice would be. It would be to remain in the sin that I enjoyed and loved Comfort, comfort In sin. Let me move on to the next person, sister Mariah. What are your thoughts? Opening thoughts, ideas.
Speaker 5:Interesting topic tonight. I'm excited to see where it does go as far as which word on ransom Would you say that was plural and singular.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:So I would say, singular Could be in the sense of the individual, and the plural could be in the sense of all those for whom Christ ransomed. Hence the many. Okay, all right. All right, all right Thank you. Okay, brother, greg, your thoughts.
Speaker 6:Open idea. Thank you, okay, brother greg, your thoughts, open idea, any ideas? Brother greg, you there. Okay, I'm outside. I hope it's not too windy. Uh, yeah, it's like go back to what kanye said. Right, so we're all born into the slave market of sin because adam put us there and for the ones who stay in unbelief right until death, they like it that way. Right so they're born in this, they're born as slaves to sin and they do everything they can to keep it that way. They suppress the truth and unrighteousness. They do, brother.
Speaker 1:See, and here's what I'm saying, I'm glad you said this, greg, because this is what's true In the context Kanye was talking in he was off but in a spiritual context, from the perspective that modern Christianity has today, who believes that everything is their will and their choice, then how do you and I'm going to deal with this later how do you reconcile your freedom of will with you being in bondage to sin?
Speaker 6:Well, the thing is like he said, at some point slavery becomes a choice. So for those who are in bondage to sin, they like it that way and that's that is what they choose because of their bondage to sin. So they choose to remain there, but not because their will is free, because their will is enslaved.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was going to add I was going to dogpile on that, but now you cleared it up, so that makes sense. Yes, I was going to come after you for a second.
Speaker 6:I know, I know I got fancy footwork bro.
Speaker 1:Muhammad Ali the Shuffle. That's right God's word. What are your?
Speaker 4:thoughts. Brother, we agree. Nothing is of our own will, everything is god's will. That's reason in the prayer. It says let your will be done, never our will be done. Absolutely well, he chose us from the beginning of the foundation of the earth. Those, those who had faith to begin with, that are no longer bound by that bondage of the sin that we fell in. When they ate the knowledge of good and evil, we know what's good and we know what's evil because we ate of that fruit and the descendants of it. But because we have that faith, we've been set free, as you said, by the ransom of his blood. And we are the many that were called that, many being the elect, that were chosen from the beginning of the foundation of the earth that he formed and made for his own glory. We could celebrate him. That's why he formed us and made us. I mean, I'm clear about that.
Speaker 1:There's a woman a lady, I'm assuming. She says pretty women, pray. We all have free will to live for Jesus or not. This is what is wrong with Christianity today, that thinking right there. That is what's wrong with modern Christianity today. When somebody pays a ransom and I'm going to elaborate on this throughout this message when somebody pays a ransom, it assumes by the nature of the requirement of it that you are in bondage, that you're not free. Pretty woman, pray, you're not. No one is saved because of their freedom of will. They have to be given the ability by God, whose will is totally free with regard to what is required for you to be reconciled to him.
Speaker 1:And so the picture that is being painted here by many Christians today Is that God is not sovereign. He's not the one that runs the show. You are, and that's why, pretty woman, that's why you're wrong. And I'm telling this to anybody here, because here's the thing If you were free, what is the point of a ransom? If you like where you are, then what was the ransom for? If you enjoy slavery, if you enjoyed the bondage that you're in and you have the ability ability to decide I want to go this way, I want want to go that way, then why does? The ransom that Christ has is not for you. Yes, peace be upon me. You're wrong, and this is what is wrong with the gospel that is being preached out there today. We're teaching a God who is anemic in what he has proposed and willed to do.
Speaker 4:From the beginning of the foundation of the world. He willed it.
Speaker 1:He willed everything. There is nothing that goes outside his purview, nothing. Why? Because he is the one who determined it. He's the one who determined it.
Speaker 1:But see, we have a society of people today who believe that the relationship between us and God is like the relationship between us and the United States government, who tells us that we have freedom of speech and every other freedom that we have. I lived in this country long enough to know that no one is truly free in this country, even in a civil sense, even less so in a godly sense. The difference is God does what he does for us. God does what he does for us. God does what he does for us because he loves us. So, all of those people who believe their salvation is a result of their own free will, you worship another God, but I can assure you it is not the God of the Bible, and I would venture a guess that you are lost. You're lost. Somebody says oh, you worship Calvin, stupid.
Speaker 1:See, most people don't even know who Calvin is or what he believed or taught. But this isn't about Calvinism. I never said one word about Calvinism. I read three verses. No one here heard me say one thing about Calvin. I never do. I never do and I can assure you, whoever you are C3PO, whatever you are, you don't know anything about what he taught C3PO. Whatever who you are, you don't know anything about what he taught. Now, as I try to respray myself, let me regroup and get back to the group here. Sister Meg, opening thoughts, perspective views what do?
Speaker 4:you have.
Speaker 3:Well, pretty woman said who the son sets free is free. Indeed, now, if we think about that for one moment, if we are free, who the son sets free is free. Indeed. Now, if we think about that for one moment, if we are free in Christ, what were we previously? We were enslaved to sin.
Speaker 3:And the issue is there's two issues here, and I'm noticing this as I'm studying and talking to people there's two issues. The first issue is that man has to find a place, even if it's the smallest place, to insert themselves into the scripture, to say I did this. This is an innate um wants that man has to insert themselves somewhere, because if they didn't, then it would be complete surrender. Number one, number two, when it, when it comes to um, oh, I lost my thought. That was the first thing I wanted to say.
Speaker 3:The second thing that I wanted to say was how free will from the biblical meaning, in my opinion, is the ability to choose the things of god, okay, as somebody who, where it clearly says in scripture that we are slaves to sin, that we are in bondage, how and we are dead, we are spiritually dead how can a dead man, spirit right, dead in spirit, be raised unless the only one who can give life raises them. How? If we are and here's my second point, the problem is is that there are people, christians, who believe that we are spiritually sick, we are not dead. And if somebody is spiritually sick then they can quote, unquote, possibly recover. But what people fail to realize is that we were dead in our sin and in our trespasses. Realizes that we were dead in our sin and in our trespasses, and the only one, like I said previously, who can bring the dead man to life? If anybody hasn't studied ezekiel, chapter 17, read it. It's the valley of the dead bones.
Speaker 1:he's the only one that can do that so now, pretty woman, pray, she agrees with you. But I guess when I say it is not, it's not, it's not what it means. And pretty woman, pray, she agrees with you. But I guess when I say it is not, is not, is not what it means. And, pretty woman, not attacking you, I'm not attacking you, sister.
Speaker 3:No, she's sweet, but there's. Here's the thing. The problem is is that we have to get to a place where we are really understanding what is going on here. How can somebody that is spiritually dead do anything except Christ? Do it how? There has to be there's, there's, there's. Either either you, either one concludes that we're spiritually sick or we're dead, but scripture clearly says I was alive once without the law. Then sin revived and I died. This gets me so much hate from a lot of people and I don't care because it is. I really don't. I'm so over it that it's so prideful to me for one to say well, guess what? I know that God chose me, but I mean, I had to choose him. Oh, really, you had to choose him. To me that's very prideful and I think that it's asinine.
Speaker 1:I say this over and over again, and asinine is a good word. I like that, I use it quite often. But here's the thing the concept that brother Nathan put up Out of Ezekiel Teaches us that we are depraved sinners, dead.