The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: True Sons of Abraham (Part 2 of 5)
The question of who truly belongs to Abraham's family strikes at the very heart of Christian identity. In this provocative exploration of Galatians 3, we confront Paul's revolutionary declaration: "They which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."
This statement upends centuries of ethnic and religious assumptions. While many Jews in Jesus' time boasted "Abraham is our father," Paul boldly redefines family lines according to faith rather than flesh. The implications are staggering—God doesn't maintain exclusive relationships with any people group based on ethnicity, geography, or heritage. His only concern is with those who share Abraham's faith.
We examine why Paul called the Galatians "foolish" for being "bewitched" into adding works to the gospel of grace. The seductive pull toward law-keeping continues today among Christians who believe Torah observance draws them closer to God. Paul's response is unequivocal: attempting to mix works with grace doesn't enhance salvation; it contaminates it entirely.
The ancient shadows of sacrifice, circumcision, and temple ritual were never meant to stand alone. They pointed to their substance—Christ himself. When Jesus declared at Passover, "Do this in remembrance of me," he connected the dots between shadow and substance, revealing himself as the fulfillment of all Old Testament types.
This teaching remains controversial precisely because it's so radical. It explains why those clinging to ethnic or religious exclusivity—whether ancient Jews or modern dispensationalists—find Paul's gospel offensive. By declaring faith alone as the pathway to becoming Abraham's children, he dismantles every human attempt to establish special standing with God through lineage, geography, or law-keeping efforts.
Want to understand why grace and faith stand at the center of authentic Christianity? Listen as we unpack this profound truth that continues to challenge and transform those who embrace it.
It's fine. I don't really have too much of a problem with what she has for the most part, I really don't.
Speaker 2:Oh, neither do I, until she comes at me.
Speaker 1:She's awesome, though Brian is me how you doing, brother, it's been a while. I'm glad you can make it up.
Speaker 2:It has been a while. God bless you. I hope you're well.
Speaker 1:I am well man. I hope the same for you as well. God bless you.
Speaker 2:I hope you're well. I am well, man. I hope the same for you as well. Good, so I joined when you were just finished reading your verse. But just gathering on what everybody was saying, what I would have to say is there is only one gospel, of course, because I'm not a dispensationist and the gospel was given to Abraham. He knew the gospel when he was bringing Isaac up onto the mountain right. He knew that God was going to provide a lamb and he had understanding as to what that meant.
Speaker 2:Now, when we look at the Old Testament, we know from Hebrews 10, verse 1, that the law was a shadow of what was to come. The circumcision of the flesh is explained, or sorry, is opened up by Jeremiah in chapter 4, verse 4, where he explains that God wanted a circumcision of the heart. Everything in the Old Testament. There was a physical representation given so that the Jews could best comprehend what God was doing or what was happening in the spiritual. That's right. Romans 9, 6, not all descendants of Israel are Israel. So we are Israel. Israel is those who overcome. That's what.
Speaker 2:Israel means the overcomers.
Speaker 1:Brian, say that again please.
Speaker 2:Not all descendants of Israel are Israel. Israel means to overcome. We are overcomers, we are the new spiritual Israel.
Speaker 2:It was a physical Israel, and they were actually. Their responsibility was to be a light onto the world, and that wasn't a light that they were going around spreading Judaism. That was a light in regards to the scriptures, in regards to God's word. He entrusted them with documenting his testimony, documenting his promises, documenting his covenant. That then, when Jesus Christ came and on a life upon the cross and sent to disciples after his resurrection, sent to disciples to the four corners of the world, you could basically say, right, that was the light onto the world.
Speaker 1:Brother man, you said it, I couldn't say it more eloquently is what you just did, is? It's a perfect representation of what we're talking about here and it's and it's really significant because, uh, you know, when we make, when we juxtapose the and I'll just ask when you, when you juxtapose the ceremonial elements that were presented under the old covenant against what Christ did for us in the new, fulfilling and thereby superseding the need for those previous, weaker, beggarly elements under the old covenant, bigger beggarly elements under the old covenant, the difference is that so many people have a problem with is that what christ did was eliminated, the requirement for anything further that came under the law because, because what he did was fulfilled, superseded, satisfied.
Speaker 1:All these things amount to the same thing.
Speaker 1:When I hear people talk about how salvation is the result of man's will, the result of man's will, people don't understand that that undermines the active obedience of Christ and the righteousness that he obtained through that active obedience being imputed to our account.
Speaker 1:As it says in this chapter, verse six of chapter three of Galatians, abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness, which means that his belief resulted in the imputation of righteousness righteousness otherwise the atonement and the sacrifices that were offered for sin would never have had to have been repeated more than once. And yet they were repeated on a regular, daily basis, up to the point where the day of atonement occurred every year, and the reason for the reoccurrence over and over again is because it could not take away sin. So the difference between what the Lord Jesus Christ did in his body and what was done under the old covenant sacrificial system is that he eliminated that. He eliminated the need for another sacrifice and he eliminated the need for man to try to obey any works of any law, which is what Paul is making clear in Galatians.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the reason it was a shadow of what was to come is because when you look at a shadow, you cannot entirely tell what that shadow is. Sorry, what is? You can't say. Reflect in the shadow. What's causing the shadow?
Speaker 4:right, that's right.
Speaker 2:You have got to look at the subject to know what's causing the shadow. So it was a shadow because they did not have understanding of the law Right. They only knew the law Right. So it wasn't until christ came that they seen what caused the shadow and now they had understanding. Now the scriptures was open. And christ explains this perfectly in matthew, chapter five and six, when he explains the law and he's saying hey, you heard of schmurder. Let me tell you what it really means. Right, you've heard of adultery. Let me tell you what it really means.
Speaker 1:Right, you've heard of adultery let me tell you what it really means. Absolutely yeah. And so here's the thing. So if the shadows, if the shadow didn't do what was thought could be done, what was it that came that did accomplish that? So, in other words, what is the contrast, what is the salvific contrast of the shadow?
Speaker 2:Salvific contrast of the shadow. I find it difficult to understand your question. To be honest, all right, yeah, go on, go ahead. Say right, yeah, go on, go ahead. No, say what you think. Go ahead, say what you think. I think what you're attending to is that christ was the, christ was the fulfillment of the shadow. Right, he was. He was that sacrifice every year. But the sacrifice every year was given to the jews so that they could recognize the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
Speaker 2:It wasn't because they were washing themselves of sin, although the scriptures does say that it wasn't because of that. It was so that they could recognize what was being done on that cross.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and so what I was getting to, and I'm sure that my question could be a little, you know, a little injected with complexity, but what you're saying is actually the answer to what I'm saying. You have the shadow on one hand, but the shadow is cast from the substance. Amen. The shadow is cast from the substance. Christ is the substance of what the shadow is cast from, the substance.
Speaker 2:christ is the substance of what the shadow was being cast from look at the passover, the passover and exodus, and, and god says to those after the passover, he says about the meal. He says do this as a festival to me. That's right Now. Why did he want it as a festival to him? So that they're constantly reminded of what happened, so that then in the future they could recognize what was really happening. Jesus even said at the Passover meal when he raises the bread and raises the wine, he says do this in remembrance of me. He enforces it again amen, brother, appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I like this little exchange. I went longer, but I love, I love it.
Speaker 5:It was worthwhile, brother michael hey, hey so uh I know we've had a uh discussion Abraham before, sure, but my thing is, I always love God's eternal plan, how it happens temporarily, that's right, how he carries it out in real time. And so we even see, before Abraham, abraham is chosen as the father of the faithful, the father of all these spiritual sons and daughters. And so, even before that, though, we see the pleasing sacrifice in Abel and then his bloodshed, we see God clothing Adam and Eve, we see Noah being locked in the ark, being locked in Christ, assured in Christ to be saved from God's judgment. And so we keep seeing these pictures, and then he's like, boom, I'm going to pick this guy out of earth and he's going to be saved from God's judgment. And so we keep seeing these pictures, and then he's like, boom, I'm going to pick this guy out of earth and he's going to be the father of my spiritual kingdom on earth, walking physically on earth.
Speaker 5:And so and I always go back to the Genesis 15, 17, when Abram falls asleep and he has the vision of the smoking pot and the flaming torch which we see in the Exodus, the smoke by day and the fire by night, leading the Israelites Right, it's the presence of God, and God unilaterally walks through the sacrifice to say you can't keep this covenant. I can about by myself and I will, because in that tradition both were supposed to walk through to sign the covenant, but we all know we couldn't do it. Abram couldn't do it. God did it unilaterally, so he kept not just talking to Abram but also showing him these signs, and so we see why Abram believed he kept doing these things and we got to remember Abram was used to worshiping false pagan gods that could do nothing Right, and now he has the one true, living God, speaking to him and telling him I am your shield and Abram's like yes, I have questions, but I'm going with you, god. I have questions but I believe you, and that that's how we operate. Amen, brother.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 5:It's a beautiful way just to see God's eternal plan being carried out and of course we see. You know, abram is the father, isaac's the son, and the story of the father, son and spirit in this, this family, right here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so in verse, in verse. So thank you for that, michael, appreciate it, brother. Thank you for that, michael, appreciate it, brother. So in verse 7, paul says, after he concludes not concludes, but he completes a thought in Galatians 3, verse 6, when he talks about that Abraham's belief was accounted to him for righteousness. So in verse 7, he says so as a result of this. Know, therefore, that they which are of faith the same meaning, they which are of faith the same are the children of Abraham.
Speaker 1:Now look, brethren. I don't know why there is so much confusion in Christian circles about God's plan. People are all caught up in and mesmerized by by these foolish notions of Jews in Israel and rebuilt temples and red heifers and Israel is gonna be this and we're gonna be sending in this, you know, ambassadors to Israel and the Antichrist and all this kind of stuff. Paul says here in verse 7, know ye, therefore, because now he's going into uncharted territory. And if you understand what Paul is saying, you will understand why Jews, judaism, you understand why Islam, muslims, you will understand why these folks hate the Apostle Paul. Here is why, right here, why they hate him. He's bringing color to their understanding that they are not ready to receive, and the crazy thing about it is it still goes on today. Listen, listen to what he says. Really, let this sink into your mind and into your heart, into your soul, because this brings nothing but utter comfort and joy to the heart of the true believer who understands, who's been made to understand by the spirit of God who lives within them. These truths. Let me say this at the outset, this at the outset God does not have an exclusive relationship in any capacity with any other people because of ethnicity, race, language, domicile, geographic location, whatever it may be, geographic location, whatever it may be. He is concerned with one group of people and they are his exclusive people, his only people that he has interest in, and it is those which are of faith, as Paul says here in verse seven, those who which are of faith, not law keepers, not the Jews, not the Muslims, not all these other things. He is concerned about one group of people, they which have the faith of Abraham, and those who have the faith of Abraham, according to verse 7, they are the children of Abraham. Think about this for a second.
Speaker 1:The Jews in the Old Covenant I mean in the New Testament are found several times telling even the Lord Jesus Christ himself, the creator of mankind, telling him we have Abraham to our father. You, we don't know, but Abraham is my father. What did Jesus tell him? If Abraham were your father, you would love me. You would love me. You would understand what I am saying. Abraham rejoiced to see my day, indeed, and he rejoiced and they said how can you say that Abraham is your father? You're not even 50 years old. Jesus was barely 33, and they were like you're not even 30 years old or 50 years old, yet how can you say you've seen Abraham and yet they say Abraham is their father? So what does that suggest to you about these folks? They trusted in their lineage, they trusted in their bloodline, they trusted in their fleshly affiliation, but they didn't trust. They didn't trust in those who put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Abraham did that. I don't.
Speaker 1:When all these people see, you would talk about these things and all of your resistance will generally come from other people who profess to know the Lord Jesus Christ, profess to know God. These people did not know God Because if they did, they would have known who Christ was. Christ told him that If God were your father, you would love me because I came forth from him. My father and I are one. I proceed from my father. I do only what he does, what he tells me, I do what he does, and hitherto he works and hitherto I work. The Bible is replete with the Lord Jesus Christ himself acknowledging the union between him and his father and that there is no difference between their agenda. They have the same shared, unified, triunal agenda the Father, son and the Holy Spirit. They do nothing divergent from the other, and so Christ says and so what he's saying if you don't know one, you don't know any, any one of the persons, of the Godhead that is.
Speaker 1:But Paul makes it very clear in Galatians 3, verse 7. Know ye, therefore, that they which are of faith the same are the children of Israel. There's two things that we need to glean from this, two things. One, they which are of faith are the children of Abraham, they which are of faith. And then two, the same are the children of Abraham. So that tells you something those who do not have faith, even if their lineage is direct, they are not Abraham's children in the sense. That matters the most.
Speaker 1:Now Christians get in conversations and they talk about spiritualizing things. But spiritualizing, dealing with things in the spiritual realm. When it comes to God, that's where the real reality is, not in this fleshly world. They which are of faith the same are Abraham's children. Meaning you could be in a room with a thousand, a hundred ten thousand Jewish folks, all of which who despise the Lord, and there are many Christians who will think they're on sacred ground simply because they're around those who are of the Jewish persuasion. But it means nothing, because if they do not have faith, whether they be Jew, whether they be Egyptian, whether they be Italian, chinese, indian, whatever, if they do not have faith in God through Jesus Christ, the same faith that Abraham had, they are not Abraham's children. I don't care how many of them there are. They can boast their bloodline affiliation, even though that itself would not be true.
Speaker 1:Titus handled that situation in AD 70. For those who know your biblical history, there is no way to attach yourself to the lineage of any one of the 12 tribes of Israel. It's impossible. I can't tell you how many people who claim to have a connection to any one of the tribes that I have disputed with, challenging them to prove it. They can't do it because it's impossible. Call them to their face. But it doesn't matter, because if they don't have the faith of Abraham, they are not Abraham's children. If you believe in God, that you've been saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, you are Abraham's children. And all this nonsense of looking for some rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, all of that is silly, it's nonsense, it's stupid, it's ridiculous, as if God would go back to send his Shekinah glory to dwell within a tabernacle buried deep within the corridors of the temple and go back to the weak and beggarly when Christ shined and shines so much more illustriously than that.
Speaker 1:Now it says here that they which are of faith are Abraham's children. I want to ask people on the panel now I'm going to go around and I'm going to ask you to try to be as concise as possible. It says they which are of faith are Abraham's children. So my question is this what is excluded from this statement of Paul, from what constitutes a child of Abraham? We know that faith is the requirement to be a child of Abraham, one of the sons of Abraham, but what I'm asking now is so what does that exclude? What is it that so many people add to the faith which Abraham has? That doesn't, that should not be included, because here all I see is they which are of faith. These are the children of Abraham. So what is it that so many people say that in addition to faith is needed to be children of Abraham? Let me start with. Let me start with you, michael. What do you think?
Speaker 5:I mean, I see it in the comments real easy. Our Torah keepers are guys that want to keep the Torah even after they say they have faith in Christ and they try to say I'm closer to God because I keep the Torah Right. It's, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Sister. Angie ridiculous. Absolutely Sister.
Speaker 4:Angie your thoughts. I agree with that because I mean, if you read on Galatians, it's like now. Therefore, the time this trusting faithfulness came there was imprisoned by subjecting to this system, which resulted from perverting the Torah into legalism. He didn't say nothing about this grace through faith Period, straight up.
Speaker 1:Candy. You there, sister. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 6:No worries, it's my faith alone. In Galatians 3.23, he says but before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed, wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith. And after faith is come, we are no longer under that schoolmaster. So there is nothing other than believing and having faith alone that we are justified.
Speaker 1:Amen, sister, sister Mariah, let me ask you a question. Paul says in verse one of chapter three. He says oh foolish Galatians, foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you. What was he talking about? What was it that he is associating? Them being bewitched by?
Speaker 4:The law adding works to the gospel.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 6:Absolutely, absolutely. How could they add and not obey what they clearly knew to be true?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. We saw in chapter 2, in verse 16, and I said in the very opening sessions that we had studies that we had on this that the heart, not only the heart of the book of Galatians, but the heart of the gospel, is found in Galatians, chapter 2, verse 16. And it says this Paul says, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ. Even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith in Christ, not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. And the meaning of this is, he says, no man shall be justified by any works of any law. He says no man shall be justified by any works of any law. So there is nothing that can be produced through the effort of man that can result even in the slightest degree of participation when it comes to obtaining and acquiring salvation. It's impossible. And then Paul goes on to say. He goes on to say that those who try to introduce anything of law into the grace of God, they frustrate the grace of God, they contaminate it, they're contaminators. And when you contaminate the grace of God, even in the slightest degree. It is no longer God's grace.
Speaker 1:Paul also made it very clear that it is always one or the other. It cannot be an admixture. It is yours, justified either by law or justified by grace. Which is it going to be? There is no scenario in the Bible where you can show that there is an admixture or a combination of the two. Johnny, am I lying or a combination of the two? Johnny, am I lying or am I telling the truth? Johnny January, am I lying or telling the truth?
Speaker 3:You're telling the truth, brother, amen. Yeah, you're telling the truth. Go ahead. Maybe later I can ask my question, okay got a question no, go ahead, I will ask the question.
Speaker 3:okay, in romans it says that, um, uh, therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with god through our lord, jesus christ, by whom we have access, by faith, into this grace, uh, uh, into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God, and not only so, but we glory in tribulations. Okay, so that's the question I have. What does Paul mean that we glory in tribulations, in troubles, in difficulties? What does Paul mean by that?
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question what did Christ go through to obtain his glory?
Speaker 3:He did the will of the Father by suffering for our sins on the cross.
Speaker 1:Get detailed. What else did he do? What did he undergo?
Speaker 3:He was separated. He did something that he had never experienced he was separated from the Father.
Speaker 1:But what about all the things leading up to that? You're right. So you're right about that. I want you to think about it. You asked the questions. I want you to think about it because I, because I think that when you consider what you're, what you're asking, you already know the answer. Like I told you last night, you know the answer. What did the lord jesus christ, what did he go through? What? Give me some highlights of what he went through in his life when he was here on Earth For that last three years of his life. What did he go through? Start before he went to the cross.
Speaker 3:He came to save his own, but they rejected him.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he was rejected. What else? What else?
Speaker 3:He was mocked, mocked, yes, what else, what else? He was mocked, mocked, yes, what else? Ridiculed, ridiculed, he suffered, he suffered tough.
Speaker 1:He suffered, he suffered. My brother, floyd, here, says he was accused. Right, he was slandered. Yes, he was told that his works that he was doing by the Holy Spirit were actually works that were done by Satan, that Satan was using him to do these things experience like pressures on our jobs, pressures in our family situations, pressures in finances, pressures in our physical need, threat those sort of things.
Speaker 3:Those are the sufferings of the righteous. Am I correct by that?
Speaker 1:Of course you're correct. Brother Greg said Jesus Christ, look what happened to Judas. What did Judas do to Christ? What did he do?
Speaker 3:He betrayed him. He betrayed him.
Speaker 1:Yes, christ was called a blasphemer. Christ was called a liar because he said he was a son of God, which is who he was. Yes, christ had no. How many times did they take up stones To want to stone him to death? Amen. We are told that the afflictions, the persecution, the tribulations that we go through, christ left behind For us to go through. And so many people will tell me hey, why do you dwell on this tribulation, this, this seven-year tribulation thing? Because it's a lie and the reason why it is so bad, the reason why I am hot on it and I will always be no-transcript.