The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: True Sons of Abraham (Part 3 of 5)
Have you ever considered that the Greek word for "witness" in Scripture literally means "martyr"? This revelation frames our entire understanding of what it means to follow Christ.
Modern Christianity, particularly in the West, has developed a dangerous aversion to suffering. Many believers embrace a false narrative that God intends to extract His people from worldly trials rather than empower them through difficulties. This escapist theology directly contradicts Scripture's consistent message: "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all."
We explore how comfortable American Christians often have no concept of true lordship or martyrdom. Having never lived under monarchy or oppression, we've crafted a version of faith that demands little sacrifice and promises much comfort. Meanwhile, our brothers and sisters in places like the Democratic Republic of Congo face deadly persecution, with dozens recently martyred for their faith.
The discussion challenges believers to reconsider how they use their platforms. Everything in this world belongs to God and can be deployed for His glory - including social media. Rather than condemning these spaces or using them inappropriately, Christians should leverage every available channel to spread truth.
Perhaps most powerfully, we examine the true meaning of Christian fellowship. Through Galatians 3, we see that all believers are spiritual siblings - children of Abraham through faith. This reality should transform our disagreements from relationship-ending conflicts into opportunities for iron to sharpen iron.
The central hope that empowers us through suffering remains the resurrection - our confidence that whatever happens to our physical bodies, we will be raised again in glory. This perspective allows us to face trials with courage rather than seeking escape routes.
Will you stand in the gap as giants of faith like R.C. Sproul and others go to their reward? The call is clear: stop seeking comfort and start embracing your identity as a witness willing to suffer for truth.
They is telling them you are supposed to escape All of these earthly trials when the, when the trial that is to come upon the world happens, you're supposed to be taken out before that happens. Yes, I got no interest in going anywhere until the Lord calls me home. Soldiers which is what we are stand here and fight. We are watching giants in the faith die, die, and I'm wondering which of us, how many of you, are going to stand in the gap, how many of you are going to fill that vacuum Left behind by people like RC Sproul, john MacArthur and others.
Speaker 1:One day Hopefully not soon the Lord is going to call me home and I'm going to tell you something. I see you, jeffrey. I'm going to call you in a second. Let me tell you something. I'm going to get a little personal here For a quick second. I hope one day that when the Lord decides to take me, that I'm going to live with you and I drop dead right in front of you. That when the Lord decides to take me, that I'm alive with you and I drive dead right in front of you.
Speaker 1:But you know what? There will be people who will say see, that proves that he was a false teacher. That proves this. That proves that. That proves whatever people will make up, whatever they want to fit, whatever it is that makes them feel comfortable. But, johnny, let me tell you something we are here to fill up the suffering, the trial, the affliction, the persecution that was left behind by our Lord and Savior, who was our head and we are the body. When the head feels pain, guess what happens? The body feels pain. Amen, even in science, you have Whatever the brain thinks is happening. That's what's happening to the body.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Yes, so we are made, we are built to go through the fire, not to avoid it. To go through the fire, not to avoid it, to go through it. And we should consider it a honor. We should consider it a honor to be called to suffer for his sake. And if you not you, johnny, but anybody if you're not ready to do that, you have embraced the wrong Lord.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 5:Let's go, Jonathan.
Speaker 4:Jonathan, you're talking right now about Jeffrey's favorite verse in the entire Bible, which is Psalms 34, verse 19. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord is the one who delivers him or her out of them all. All, not most, not all, most all but A-L-L, everyone without exception, right Period, right Amen, amen.
Speaker 1:Love you brother. Brother Brian, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you very much. So if actually I go, if I can go back to Galatians, chapter three, Sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're told that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And it got me thinking sons, children, right, we're children. Children are descendants I already brought up, and not all descendants of israel are israel. Right, already brought that up. But what may who? How are we children? Jesus said nobody can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him first. Right, so it. So it's God who does the drawing. How does he draw? Well, we're told that faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God. Right, so it's the word of God that draws us. It's the word of God. We're gifted that faith. But who births us? Who births us right Now, paul? Paul says in the very next chapter of Galatians, 4.19, my little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you.
Speaker 3:In other translations that says that he is in burden, pains, right. And if we go back to 1 Corinthians, 4, 4, verse 15. For though you might have 10,000 instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, I have begotten you through the gospel Right. Amen, brother, we're birthed into the kingdom. We're birthed into the kingdom by the true pastors, because there's lots of false ones out there.
Speaker 3:we're birthed in by the true pastors who preach the gospel right and it is by that preaching of the gospel, that because his word is living, an act of sharper than any double-edged sword. It's true that that god does the drawn. And that's how we are those who are of faith, who are sons of Abraham, because God gives us with that faith and we are the true descendants of Abraham, the spiritual Israel that God had always intended from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:Amen, brother. And see, I like what you said. We are the true descendants, and the true descendants are those who are of faith, regardless of nationality, ethnicity, creed, tongue, national affiliation, culture, whatever. Anyone who has faith there is. No. Let me tell you something All this turmoil that we see in the world, that we will always see in the world, there is no fellowship On earth Like that of the Christian community. None, we are the most diverse Group of people On planet earth and the world spins Because of us. It spins because of us. It spins because of us. Everything that happens in politics, everywhere in the world, every country in the world, everything happens for us. This is a big deal. This is a big deal and with us, with that being the backdrop, we turn around and glorify God. That's why everything in the world is for us, because we glorify him with it.
Speaker 1:I hear so many people, so many pastors, who I was talking to somebody today. I hear so many pastors that come on TikTok condemning anyone who is teaching, preaching or sharing on TikTok and I'm like but you're on TikTok saying this? But here's my thoughts. Tiktok, tv, Facebook, whatever social media platform there is, whatever it is, everything here belongs to the Lord and it all belongs to him, to the Lord and it all belongs to him. And the thing is, we should be using it For his glory, and so many Christians Refuse.
Speaker 1:You got people who claim to be Christian Wearing Next to nothing, shaking their rear ends All over TikTok when they could be talking about, about and promoting the glory of our Lord and Savior, jesus Christ. You got people who are always screaming and crying about they don't know what it is the Lord has for them to do. Well, won't you go find one of your brothers who preaches the truth and tell the truth and repost one of their videos? How much work does that take If one person hears it? So many people who claim to be Christian are just crybabies and they're looking for reasons to remain lame. They look for reasons.
Speaker 3:May I elaborate? Go ahead, bro, just for a moment. So exactly what you're saying is so true because remember that person who was preaching in the name of Jesus and the disciples came to Jesus and said but he's not one of us, right, he's using your name. And Jesus said let him, because the house is not divided. Before I came to the faith, I was actually watching a guy on TikTok. Now he's a complete heretic. I know now through my studies he might be in it for gifts and stuff like this as well, but I still heard the word of god through him, before I came to faith.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yep, and and no matter what way it's being done, those who god wants to draw and wants to bring into salvation, he will he will who it's done by.
Speaker 3:He will do that, and those verses that I just shared there as well. Those verses show that it is all about the word. There's notice you wake up one day and you have salvation. The word of god has got to be sown in your heart right for that to happen, and he's the one who gives the increase. It can't happen without the word. So we have a responsibility as christians to preach the gospel, to sow those seeds and to hope and pray that God will give the increase to what we work.
Speaker 1:Amen, brother, you have no idea how much I miss you being here. Brian, you need to get in here more often. Brother, meg go ahead. Sister Go ahead.
Speaker 5:Man, you have no idea how much the the Holy Spirit in me is like flying right now. Like the word, just this spoken word like that we're talking about tonight just gets me so excited. Like it just makes sense when the Lord says I have not given you a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. So many times he says in this world you will have trials and tribulations, but fear not, for I have overcome the world. I mean, these disciples were willing to unalive for what they knew and witnessed to be true.
Speaker 5:And when you were talking about just the fact that, just just the fact that it is, it is a honor to do whatever we have to go through, you know, for the name of the Lord, and there's so, like you said, there's so many weak people, and I'm just like, and then the thing that you hear with dispensation was like why would the Lord um abuse his bride or beat his bride? And I'm like you guys are taking it totally out of context. Like this is what we were, what we're here for. You know what I mean. It says don't fear the man who can merely take your, your life. Fear the one that can take your life and your soul. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Man, man, when you read the Bible, do you know what it means to be a witness? Does anybody know? When you read witness in the Greek New Testament, does anybody know what witness really means? Anybody A martyr.
Speaker 4:Martyr, martyr.
Speaker 1:A martyr, martyr, martyr so what does a martyr do?
Speaker 6:They go till unalignment.
Speaker 3:Testify until unalignment.
Speaker 1:A martyr dies to self. A martyr puts itself on the line for another for the right cause. But when the scripture talks about us being witnesses for Christ, witnesses for God, witnesses for his glory, witnesses of his word, witnesses of what he has done, to go out and tell people you are a martyr, that's what it means. That's literally what it means, literally what it means.
Speaker 5:And so the thing is we need to understand what does a martyr do?
Speaker 1:Whatever has to be done, even if it leads to unalivement. So that goes back to what johnny january was talking about, and he's asking a question about suffering. Yeah, when you witness for christ, you are going to suffer, because that's what a martyr is Witnessing is to suffer. If you do not suffer, you are not a martyr and you are not a witness. You are useless. I said it, amen, useless. There's a message I'm preparing for you guys like, if you're past, what's that?
Speaker 1:so, candy Girl, you there, of course. Alright, go ahead. You were going to say something, sister, go ahead you.
Speaker 7:And then Michael and then Mariah well, kind of take it to a different level, then, but at the same time the suffering part, like for what God suffered for us in our sins, there's no suffering that we should even worry about on this earth compared to what he did.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question why are you?
Speaker 7:there, buttercup's what I say, growl it off. That's how I taught my kid man. I ain't even playing. But yeah, cups what I say, growl it off. That's what I said I taught my kid man. I ain't even playing, but yeah, like, if you ain't dying, bleeding and it ain't broke, excuse me, f1 but um, yeah, growl it off, because it ain't nothing compared to what, what was done for us?
Speaker 1:let me, let me ask you this question what's what's the worst that could happen to one, to us candy? What's the worst that could happen to us?
Speaker 7:uh, jesus christ saying um depart from me, i're not.
Speaker 1:No, I'm talking about as a believer, as a believer On a log in. That's the worst that could happen, right.
Speaker 7:Yeah, and then we'll just go be with Jesus the way you're going with it, where you're going with it, but that's not the worst. For me, that's not bad Like take me home, Lord, take me home. But what I'm saying is In the flesh in the world.
Speaker 1:What I'm saying is the worst that can happen to us is to die To an alive F1.
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's the worst here in the world? Yes, but why is that not a problem for us?
Speaker 7:Because Jesus even told us don't worry about what happens to our flesh.
Speaker 1:Why. Because, we're not unalived. What does he say? He can do, dad, brother, thank you.
Speaker 7:Yeah, this, let me, let me say this, raise this all up in the end, anyway, let me say this this is the central theme of our faith the resurrection of the dead.
Speaker 1:This is what every single saint of God in the Old Testament and every true saint in the New Testament looks forward to and trusted. This is the faith that Abraham had, knowing that we can be raised from the dead that we can be raised from the dead Right.
Speaker 7:If we die, if we unalive in the flesh anyway to live in Christ and Christ in us. What does it matter what happens in our flesh? We live in spirit.
Speaker 1:That's right. But here's the thing when it is time, when he punches our card, for lack of a better expression when he punches our card, we know now, before that happens, that we are going to be raised again in our flesh, glorified In a new body, in a new body, In a new body. So, whatever they do, whatever happens to us, doesn't matter.
Speaker 5:No, can you read? Can you read?
Speaker 1:I don't have my bible, because hold on one second, hold that for a second. I want to get the other two first. I want to.
Speaker 6:I want to keep people going michael, you and then mariah, and then I'll come back to you, meg so we're talking about some words like martyr and and things like that, and then you bring it up how we need to be on these apps and how some of us are on these apps doing unrighteous things, but we're claiming jesus is our lord and stuff right uh I know we we talked about it in a panel a couple days ago, but my pastor has been hitting on it too is uh, especially us in america, we have no concept of what lord is because we have never lived under a monica.
Speaker 6:We have no concept of what lord is because we have never lived under a monarchy. We have no concept of what a martyr is because we none of us have lived in an oppressive regime like the roman empire, where their emperor, the caesar, had a, uh, had a divine title to him as Caesar, and so we've never lived in these kind of situations. And so it's almost become a comfortable Christianity where all we have to do is say his name and that's enough. And we know that's not what the scripture talks about. When they believe they were really going against the world and they were setting themselves up for persecution, and that's why jesus promised it. They were setting themselves up for suffering, um, and so we haven't really tasted any of that. No, and so there's, you know, there. They'll come a time and day when we will over here. We'll probably all be gone by then, but we really have to meditate on what those believers went through.
Speaker 1:If you think about Jesus every, every Christian should read at least two or three chapters out of Fox's Book of Martyrs. I don't know if any of you heard of it, fox's Book of Martyrs. It used to be something like 12 or 14 volumes and now I think they've pared it down to like one small volume where you got like three words on each page, because it's all Christians today can handle a few words on each page. But you read about how Christians who are breaking away from Catholicism, away from catholicism, not accepting mass, rejecting mass, rejecting the pope, rejecting um super irrigation, rejecting uh, the, the worshiping and the veneration of the saints, all the stuff that's in the catholic church, these people, if they didn, these Christians, if they did not recant. You need to read what they went through. You need to read what they went through Because here today Christians whine if they didn't get the right size house, or if they didn't get the right size house, or if they didn't get the $2 pay raise, if they don't have enough medical insurance.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's bewildering to me and I'm not saying I'm immune from any of this because, like Michael, sin and suggesting is that we have no concept of what real suffering really is in America. None, none. Homeless people in America would be rich in other countries.
Speaker 6:And if I could really quick say, let's be praying for our brothers and sisters in the Democratic Republic of Congo, because we've lost another 43 to 49 due to unalignment by a people group.
Speaker 1:Because of their faith.
Speaker 6:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, see, this is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm talking about. Christians in America don't know anything. Everything we. It's so frustrating I can't even begin, because we are to be who we are in this country. We are the most, first of all, uninformed people on the planet Americans, christians and Christianity in America is the most anemic belief system on Earth system on earth. When you see what other people do for a false God versus what we do or don't do for the true God.
Speaker 1:It's embarrassing when I listen to these other lies that go on with Christians, supposedly Christians. The fighting and the bickering. Some guy took a picture of me and put demon horns on my head and gave me a forked tongue or whatever he had and posted this thing. He only had an interaction for me for less than 10 seconds. Some guy that calls himself Trinotheus or Trinitheus or whatever it is. This is what people do. Let's see how right I can be. Let's see how wrong I can make you. This is what's going on. They don't care how many people are listening Right now.
Speaker 1:Somebody can start to argue with me about something stupid and I can do the bad thing and I can say I don't know. Whatever it is Somebody getting mad. We go into an argument, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I got to listen to 70, 80 people and put on this tirade when I have the opportunity, and you have the opportunity, to be a blessing to so many people. So we have a choice Do we want to glorify God or do we want to win an argument With somebody who has no interest in what we're saying?
Speaker 1:I don't do this For me. I do this because I love my Lord. I love the Lord Jesus Christ. I love what he did for me. I love his people, all of you. I love his word. I really sincerely do, and I will die holding this position. I will.
Speaker 1:Does that mean I get it right on everything? No, it doesn't. But if you're going to prove me wrong, you're going to have to bring it, because none of us should be lollygagging when it comes to this word of God. None of us. This should be. This is not a boast. This is something that every Christian should be able to say. This should be able to say I am, I am in prayer with my Lord, I'm in his word and I want to know him. I want to know his mind, I want to know what he has designed for me to do and to be. I want to know what it is he wants me to, how he wants me to be effectual to other people. I want to have these relationships, all these things. If you apply yourselves, if you apply yourself, he's going to show you what it is you're asking for. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:For me it gets a little Emotional in that regard, but I'm not one that leans on that. We have to lean and stick to God's Truth, and so I have brothers and sisters here and elsewhere that we, for the most part, we're in agreement. Do we have disagreements on certain things? Of course? So what? What's more important? Being right and destroying you or preserving that relationship and we helping each other grow or come to a meeting of the minds? Because if we don't, it's because Satan is taking advantage of us. He's looking at us, going like look at these idiots. They say that the Lord, jesus Christ is their Lord. They don't know who he is. They don't know him any better than I do. There has to be something different.
Speaker 2:But can I say this? Can I say this? Can I say this? You know, I find myself now that I'll be 70 in November, if the Lord wills and I did some things.
Speaker 2:I was in trucking for 30 years and I, you know, I never realized how Christians years and I, you know, I never realized how, how, how christians hate other christians and how hard it is to prove the christians that. You were quick, I just got, you know. I I got to a place where, where I got into a position where I was trying to get some help and I and it seemed like I had to try to prove that I was a good Christian to other Christians. The reason why? Because they said, well, the reason why you've got to be doing something wrong, I mean and these are even pastors, you know, and it hurt me so bad that I just said forget it.
Speaker 2:Lord, if you can't help me, if you can't lead someone across my path, hey, I'm just going to walk by faith in you alone, and that's basically until I came upon this platform. You know, that's the way I felt. I mean, I felt, well, hey, people are just selfish, I don't care if they're Christian or not, they go to church, but they're thinking about themselves. They hug you and say everybody go around hugging each other, but it's a false love. God talks about agape love and I don't see agape love. I see a bunch of people saying well, if you had enough faith, you could believe God for this and that and the other. That's not what I'm going to say.
Speaker 1:It's an issue because we are in a situation where it is imperative that we find a way To be Cordial. So here's what I mean I have three siblings, and siblings Always fight. But let me tell you something You're not going to jump on my brother without dealing with me. That's how it was when I was growing up. That was never going to happen. If I want to beat my little brother up, that's on me. You touch my little brother. Brother, we got a problem. So in in in.
Speaker 1:We're reading here in verse 7 of Galatians 3, paul says know you there, don't you know? He says know you all, therefore, that they which are of faith the same are the children of Abraham. If all of those who are of faith are the children of Abraham, that means that all of those who are of faith are brothers and sisters. There is not a single person listening to me live or on this panel who, if you say something crazy, I'm going to call you on it, and who, if you say something crazy, I'm going to call you on it, and I hope you'll do the same for me.
Speaker 1:Because that's what happens with family we hash it out Not with bloodthirst but with the idea of, like Sister says correcting each other, iron, sharpening iron. We all say that, but how many of us really believe it? How many of us really believe it? It's like if I disagree with you, I can't talk to you anymore. I can't fellowship with you, I can't be friends with you anymore Because you don't believe that if I eat steak then I'm not a Christian. This is ludicrous.
Speaker 7:I think it's a point to where what I'm saying is what's right and what you're saying is what's right. Nobody wants to, for some reason. Compromise is coming to. Go and pray about it, reread it and let the Holy Spirit, like-minded on one accord, reveal whether we were right or wrong, or it is what it is, and then come back and fellowship about it again. That's where that edifying, that's where that coming together and trying to talk to one another and be that way, that's that fruit. Because to me, what else is it? If we're not showing the fruit from our bonds, from our branches, in situations like that, then what are we showing? So what does that really say about us?
Speaker 1:My brother, joshua, says anybody, nobody will remain. See, the thing about it is you know, I read a really good sermon this morning by one of my favorites, john Owen, and it was about. It was about accepting reproof from a brother or sister in Christ. Accepting reproof, see, everybody today wants to tell, tell, tell, tell everyone else what is is wrong In their understanding, or whatever. But the Bible talks about reasoning together, reasoning together.
Speaker 1:There's not one of you who I have fellowship with that you can't. Come to my house and we can sit down. And we can sit down, sit on the back porch, on the patio, whatever. You know, put a steak on the grill or whatever. And you know, put a steak on a grill or whatever. And you know, have a Coke or drink a glass of wine, whatever you have, whatever it may be, and we can sit down and we can argue about the scriptures in a quality, good way. I love it, I love it and I miss that. I miss it and I miss that. I miss that Because so many people, so many Christians, are so either immature or thin skinned. And I'll give you a protein drink, canaan Water or protein drink. But my thing is that old school way of communing with one another, where we get together and we talk about these things, and it's beautiful when two or three Christians are sitting together and they're having a good debate about how to understand how it is that, as a collective, we're to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ man. What is more,