The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Faith PREVAILS, Torah FAILS! (Part 3 of 4)
The age-old tension between grace and works takes center stage in this provocative theological discussion. When believers claim salvation comes through Christ alone but simultaneously believe they can lose that salvation through their actions, they've created an irreconcilable contradiction. This powerful conversation dissects Paul's passionate rebuke to the Galatians who had been "bewitched" into adding circumcision to faith requirements.
What does it truly mean to be "at one" with Christ through atonement? The group explores how even adding one small work requirement—Paul's "little leaven"—fundamentally corrupts the entire gospel message. When we suggest our efforts contribute to salvation, we've declared Christ's sacrifice insufficient.
The discussion tackles why human pride so viscerally resists the doctrine of divine sovereignty in salvation. Many Christians verbally affirm grace while functionally living as though their standing with God depends on performance. This contradiction reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christ accomplished on the cross.
Most provocatively, the group examines why suggesting humans lack free will in salvation generates such heated reactions. "You will lose friends, you will lose family over this one thing," one participant warns—a testament to how deeply human ego resists complete surrender to God's sovereignty.
Whether you're wrestling with questions about eternal security, the nature of grace, or the relationship between faith and works, this conversation offers challenging insights that may transform your understanding of what it means to be truly saved by grace alone.
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Pardon me Go ahead. So that's how they do the. That's what their theology says is that it doesn't talk like the way we just described it, that it's Jesus doing it through us.
Speaker 2:No, they don't. Well, here's the thing. They will give you that in lip service. But in other words, but it's speaking with a forked tongue both sides of the mouth, the forked tongue on both sides of the mouth, because you can't say that, you can't say that, um, that, for instance, um, I believe that I'm saved by grace through faith in jesus christ, and then, at the same time, say that I can lose my salvation, christ, and then, at the same time, say that I can lose my salvation because you have to understand what they don't understand. Brother, are the implications of what it means to say I was saved by grace on one hand, but I can lose my salvation on the other. So what does that imply?
Speaker 3:it's like saying hold on, hold on forewarned, foreknown. What does that imply?
Speaker 2:It's like saying hold on, hold on, hold on, Forewarned for known. What does that imply?
Speaker 1:Well, that means it's a conditional. It's not, it's not grace Conditional. On what, though? On what you do Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 2:You see what I mean. So what happens is people, don't they? They, they will say, okay, I read this, I believe that, I read this over here, I believe that so. But sometimes they will go like.
Speaker 2:This is the reason why I was asking this question here, when I was asking everybody the question about is this a contradiction? That Paul was saying Circumcision, uncircumcision, nothing. But then Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians that but the commandments, keeping the commandments, do matter. So what's problematic is people not aligning the whole of Scripture in a way that makes it clear. But if so, if you don't know that the atonement of Christ is actually an efficient work and not simply a sufficient work, then there's all kind of room for falling away from sin.
Speaker 2:But those of us who really understand the word of God and are led by the spirit of God, we understand what atonement really means. Atonement means literally at one. It doesn't mean a provision for all. It means, at one Meaning, that anyone who trusts in Christ for salvation and believes that he died for their sins, they are saved immediately and his atonement is theirs. His substitutionary work belongs to them. Now, when the Father and the Spirit look at this son that has been made new, what does he see? He sees nothing different than what he sees in his own son.
Speaker 1:So they just explain away many verses then that prove these things. That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. And we, brother, we are doing this right now, as we should do on a regular basis, so that all of us believers who are discussing these things together, and we and we sharpen each other's iron. The reason we do this is so that we can, we can become better at persuading, and so they may be at fault for their understanding, but we also have to understand that there's some fault on our part too, because if you lack the ability to persuade simply because we were lazy not you, brother, but I mean in general and lazy then what happens is we bear some of the responsibility. So when we look at paul in galatians, he says listen, I've told you everything. I've told you everything how you came to conclusion. You didn't get this from me, as we're going to read later. You didn't get this from me.
Speaker 2:I was very clear, I was articulate in my explanation. There was no ambiguity in the conclusions that I made, and there was no ambiguity in your understanding. In fact, you were so happy and excited about it, you were willing to give me your eyes so that I can be healed of my infirmity, and you would have done so if you could have. So he reminds them. He reminds them that you had a good understanding. You knew what I explained to you and you knew there was nothing else to be added to it. But go ahead, brother. I cut you off, I'm sorry, and then May.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just going to say that. So basically they're just suppressing the truth to maintain power, to ego, pride, whatever All that stuff, Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely brother, absolutely May go ahead.
Speaker 3:Simple terms what the person innately is saying. It's Lord, Jesus Christ, I believe in you and I believe that you saved me, but I believe that I need to help you. That's as simple as it is and that's how I explain it to other people. Simple as it is and that's how I explain it to other people. It's like what about salvation? That's when it says it's of the Lord. Where in any scripture, any scripture in the word of God and trust me, I've looked. Are you involved?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Nowhere, Absolutely nowhere. But, brother, foreknown, get ready, Okay, Because truth is is is not fun to the recipient, and and and and you will get. You will get so much. I stand in the line of fire on many days and I people message me like man I mean, but hold your character, because, because that fruit will make the other people look like complete fools, Because if you lose it, then it's, it's unprofitable, and so the Holy spirit will keep you in those moments to just stand when you can't do nothing else.
Speaker 3:You just stand on the word of God, because truth will allow the believer to stand. It knows nothing else. There's only one.
Speaker 2:Amen, Angie go ahead.
Speaker 6:Go to what Fornone was saying about. You know, we get people who they say they know Jesus, they know the word, but then they don't understand fully what Jesus meant when he said it was finished on the cross. And so, therefore, when Paul sits there and says it is not Christ that died, it was I that died, it was his pride and ego is what he was referring to. So you get people that do stand in their pride and ego and you always hear I, I, I, I, I. Well, they put a human effort to that I. When we say I, we're meaning Christ.
Speaker 6:So, the big difference between the two. And when he said it was finished and he did the atonement for our sins, it was finished.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Sister Appreciate that Absolutely.
Speaker 5:Before we go, because so we are justified by faith alone, we're just right. There's no works Right alone. We're justified by faith alone. There's no works Right, but the good works that's done by Jesus, which sends us the helper to guide us, transform us, do the good deeds, the good works through us. There is no more I, that's that regenerate and generate regeneration, and the unregenerate part of us so thatgenerate part of us, so that regenerate part of us once we become in Christ. So here's the question we don't have to do nothing after that.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 5:Nothing no.
Speaker 4:Not be obedient.
Speaker 2:There's nothing else to do.
Speaker 5:What the word says. So the good works that I'm speaking on is it's done in us, through us and by the love that is instilled and transformed our hearts and minds. At that point we want to be obedient, so that comes natural with the holy spirit within us. So a lot of times people take that work. For example, I'm going to use a matthew 25 where the parable of uh, the talents. So you got five, it gets five, he brings five back. You got two, that gets two, he brings two back. You got one who dug it up, hit it, didn't do nothing with what god did and give him to bring back to him and basically he was cast off and his talents was given to the one who had the most Okay. One of it is is he wasn't obedient and doing what God gave him his talent to do with it.
Speaker 4:Right, right.
Speaker 5:So a lot of times when you speak about the obedience because it is a work God gives us work to do he give those five talents to that one person to go do work for him. Got it, but not work as in the law. Work Right, that was his hands and feet, it was him doing the work through the person he gives the talents to Do. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:No, I see what you're saying. No, it's good. Good work, brother Jeffrey, man of God.
Speaker 7:Well, I just want to throw something back in here, because it's my job, the you know. Let's go back to the concept of the elect and the non-elect. Okay, you know we're talking about, you know how we should be and how we should talk to other people and everything, but we've got to remember that we don't know which is which, but there's no way. The elect is going to hell, Right?
Speaker 7:There's no way. The non-elect is not going to hell, regardless of what we tell them Right? But you know it's the way we should live, knowing that we are saved and not having confusion about it and thinking that we're doing something that the Lord himself is doing. I mean, you know, james, people love to argue about Paul and James being at odds about works, and you know I don't want to go down a rabbit hole on that, but basically you know, everything is done by Christ and we should live like that, in gratitude and love. But, like I said, you know you, you could you know the elected, the elect and the non-elect or the non-elect right.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I'll give you like a preview of another um, uh, topic that I'm going to cover, and I'm going to be presenting this whole thing from the metaphor of weed killer and it goes with what you're saying. So you have this. Those of us we have lawns, we know how hard a lawn can be to maintain, but we spray weed killer all over the whole lawn and we do that. We do that to kill the weeds but to preserve the grass. That's right. And so the word of God is like the weed killer. Yep, you know, it kills the grass. I mean, it kills the weeds but it preserves the grass. And this is what. This is what the gospel does. You know, for one group it gets rid of and the other group it preserves, and part of that preservation of that other group is getting rid of the other group.
Speaker 7:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So that's very much in line with what you're talking about right now. But you know I don't want to spill too much on that.
Speaker 7:Well, yeah, I'm looking forward to it, I mean because you're right. I mean, basically, what we're doing by presenting the gospel is we are, by hearing the gospel, we are stimulating the elect Right and the Holy Spirit will convert them, and it's hardening the hearts of the non-elect, purging them.
Speaker 2:And see, the thing about it is we preach the gospel to everyone because we don't know who our unborn brothers and sisters are yet Exactly, but the means of their new birth is through the preached word, and that's why it's so important for us to get this gospel down in every aspect, so that we know how to address whatever comes our way. You know, and it's just, and I don't know why any christian wouldn't want to you know, when you get into these, when you get into this word I know I'm on a little high horse now, but when you get into this word, you, you, you, you realize how beautiful it is, how consistent it is, you know how tight it is, and, and there are no inconsistencies, there are no contradictions. The only problem is like the law, is man right, it's me, and so we have to sort these things out.
Speaker 7:And so now, we're at, we're ready to, we're ready to resist the onslaught of the evil. One to resist by having our sword sharpened. Yep, absolutely, Brother Jeffrey encourage the server.
Speaker 2:You're going to say something, Jeffrey encourage the server.
Speaker 8:You were going to say something Real quick, jonathan if we want to take this and boil it down to its simplest form.
Speaker 8:You kind of hear me now, yes, okay, kind of boil it down to its simplest form, and that is are others seeing Jesus in us? Not just hearing, but are they seeing? Are we being his hands, his feet, his ears, his eyes? Are they seeing him in us? When they see him in us, it works past their flesh and touches their heart. Are we touching? Are we allowing Christ in us to touch the heart of those who need to be touched? There's a question I think we all have to ask ourselves at one point or another is how effective is my witness? How effective is my witness? How effective is what I'm trying to do to serve?
Speaker 4:God and to show others his grace, his mercy.
Speaker 8:I would argue— yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I would argue that if you want to get an idea of how effective your witness is, then it will be commensurate to your understanding of the word of God and how much time you put into it. If you want to know, if you want a good idea of the effectiveness of your witness, you want a good idea of the effectiveness of your witness. It will have a lot to do with the effectiveness of your diligence and vigilance when it comes to the word of God, and not the word of God alone, but the prayer that goes along with it, and that appetite and that hunger to win souls, because nope, let's face it, we're here to win souls. This is the thing and this cannot be lost on any christian. So I don't let you know. So when these people, you know there's a popular saying in these non-denominational churches and you know and this is one thing that it's not just non-denominational churches, there's a lot of churches that that do this and they talk about the lord jesus christ. You need to come to him and make him your personal lord and savior. But I get what they mean by that. But I tell this much when the Lord comes into our hearts and saves us from our sin, he becomes after that anything but personal, meaning solely for us. He is solely for us. He is our savior. So I'm not saying that he's not our own, but what I'm saying is that what he does is he works in us to go and produce for him. We are his workmanship, like brother brian brought up, we are his workmanship, created in christ jesus in order to produce good works, and nothing can be more chief than that. When you look at, when you look at the um in galatians 5, those nine, those nine, uh, fruits of the spirit, you know. So there's an expectation that he has of us to go out and to produce that kind of fruit and to share and to share the gospel. But in order for us to share the gospel, we have to get it right ourselves. We really do.
Speaker 2:In verse 7, in verse 7 of galatians 5, paul tells the galatians. He says you ran well, and he's using the metaphor of a runner you ran well, so who hindered you from obeying the truth? Now he's admitting I told you the truth and you ran well. So what got in the way? Who got in the way? Clearly someone did. How did this happen?
Speaker 2:And in verse 8, he says this persuasion does not come from him. Who calls you? It wasn't me, it wasn't the Lord, it wasn't the Holy Spirit, it wasn't other faithful believers. So this persuasion that you now have, where does it come from? How did you get into this place, this situation, brother Brian?
Speaker 2:Who has bewitched you? Who turned you? Who bewitched you? Who coerced you into perverting the gospel and therefore changing it, making it another gospel, which is not the gospel, but another gospel altogether.
Speaker 2:And notice this he's only talking about far. He's only talked about circumcision, even though he made the argument that keeping the law, if you're going to keep one, you must keep all. But he's only been talking about up to this point, he's only been talking about circumcision, circumcision. And that one addition was enough for Paul to say you are stupid. This is what he means when he says foolish Galatians. That's what he means. That's what he's saying you, foolish Galatians, you stupid ones? I'm telling you that's what he's saying.
Speaker 2:Who has bewitched you? Who has seduced you to the point that you are willing to sacrifice all? Whether it be to please, to please, to appease or whatever is not the issue. So look what Paul says. Whether it be to please, to appease or whatever is not the issue. So look what Paul says. Who's done this to you?
Speaker 2:And then he goes and he says in verse 9, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. A little leaven, it corrupts the whole lump. A little leaven, it corrupts the whole lump. Remember, he's not arguing with them about they weren't trying to add in. They weren't talking about keeping the Sabbath, honoring your parents. They weren't talking about any of those other things. They weren't arguing about any of that.
Speaker 2:Paul is only bringing up the one issue circumcision. And that was enough. A little leaven, one little law. They could argue with him. Surely, paul, this can't be that big of a deal. You're taking this out of control. You're taking this, you know, too far, aren't you being a little extravagant? Is it really wrong if I go get circumcised? How wrong can it be? You got Titus circumcised. So what's really wrong with this? Why is it wrong in this instance, brother God's word? Why is it? Why is why is it wrong? Because people were getting circumcised and Paul, there were many people. There were people that Paul, they had no problem. Titus was, was circumcised. So what was wrong with this? What was wrong with this in this particular case, god's word? What was wrong with this? What was wrong?
Speaker 4:with this, in this particular case, god's word. What was wrong with it? I'd say that again, they're reverting back to putting their faith back in the law and not on the grace and the finished work of the cross. They're relying on their own. They're saying because I'm performing this circumcision, I'm doing something. They're taking away, as Paul has said, what was done on the cross. The sacrifice on the cross is in vain when you do that, when you don't put your faith in the grace.
Speaker 2:And what is it? Do you think they believe their reward is by adding circumcision to faith? What do they?
Speaker 4:think their reward is Salvation, salvation, and it's not. The salvation is done on the cross. They're blind. They're blind. I take it more. I'm not calling them stupid because Christ said we're not supposed to call anybody foolish. I think he's more pointing to the fact that they're blind still because they're still believers. They're just blind in what they are seeing. They're not understanding. They're not really stupid, they're just not understanding.
Speaker 2:He calls him that, but I hear what you're saying. So he goes on. He says a little leaven leavens the whole lump and and, and. And brother, what you're saying there, you see some consistency here, because in verse 10 paul says I have confidence in you, I have confidence in you, in the lord, that you will have no other mind. But he who troubles you listen to this but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. And you can just see the real heart of this apostle here. He says I have confidence, he's like, I believe you're going to come back to your senses. I have confidence that this is so. I have confidence in the lord that you will have no other mind, but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he is. And then in verse 11 he says and I, brethren, I will preach.
Speaker 2:If I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. This, this is what he means here when he says. Because, in other words, he's saying that by your actions, by what you have sort of succumbed to in this view, that circumcision needs to be added. He's saying if I still preach circumcision, then why am I suffering? And he was suffering, but he was suffering because he was taking the law out of the situation. He's saying you can't be justified by any law, and this is why he was. This is why he was suffering the persecution that he's talking about, because he has overthrown the law and he knows that that it is faith in Christ that overthrows the law. That's why he was being persecuted. And he says that. Then he goes, then the offense of the cross has ceased. So we'll get to that part in a second. There's a couple of hands up. Let me see. It is first Angie and then Meg.
Speaker 6:I love how he was saying and how Paul was representing. He was putting his faith in the Lord In verse 10, I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is and he knew who it was, but it was like that part right there to me is absolutely beautiful, because he has confidence in the Lord, because it's the Lord's work and not anybody else's work, and that's just beautiful to me. I just wanted to point that out because, you know, when we stand in the Lord, we have confidence in him and not in ourselves, because it's him that does it, not us so? And it is him that works through us, does it not us so? And it is him that works through us, and so, therefore, you know him just saying that because they knew it before and they were influenced by these law judiaizers that wanted to add law to to the work of christ. You know, and and it to me that was just like. I love that. I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:No, perfect, Meg go ahead.
Speaker 3:That I think is important in like 10, and then I'm going to go to 12. But in 10, when it says I kind of like what Angie said, but if we go back to Galatians 1, verse 8, right, when it says if we or an angel from heaven come to you preaching any other gospel than the gospel in which you have received, let him, let them be accursed, right, right so it's not.
Speaker 3:It's not the people who got told this nonsense, because then when we get to 10, we see what paul is saying. He says I have confidence in you that through the Lord, that there will be none otherwise minded, meaning the Lord's going to restore you right. But woe to them and what they did. But then in 12 I was going to ask you, wait till we get there. You haven't got there yet, okay we haven't got there yet.
Speaker 2:That's where. That's where we end up. Sister candy, go ahead.
Speaker 5:So in 1 Peter, chapter 2, verse 15, he says Then I'm going to jump over to Colossians, chapter 3. Verse 17, and whosoever do in the word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus cross, given thanks to God and the father by him, then I'm going to jump down to 23. And whatsoever you do, do it heartily as to the Lord and not unto men, knowing what of the Lord you shall receive the reward of the inheritance, for ye serve the Lord Christ, but he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done. And there is no respect of persons.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 5:If you don't care, I want to go to Colossians 2.
Speaker 2:Come on, keep it short, keep it short Candy, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead to the next one.
Speaker 5:I'll keep it short. I'll do this one last.
Speaker 2:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 5:I'm good, go ahead.
Speaker 2:You sure?
Speaker 5:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I will hold this one off Alright so In verse 11 he says and I, brethren, if I still Preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? So the whole idea is Is that if he were Pre preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? So the whole idea is Is that if he were Preaching circumcision he wouldn't be suffering? But the suffering is a result of the fact that he is preaching against it. This is the problem. So then he says Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
Speaker 2:So, brother Brian, let me ask you what does he mean there when he says then the offense of the cross has ceased. So, brother Brian, let me ask you what does he mean there when he says then the offense of the cross has ceased? He says if I preach circumcision, then why am I still suffering persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. What does he mean by that? No, I don't know. That's a good one. I don't know, I don't know on that one. That's fair. I like that, that's fair, brother jeffrey. Uh, man of god, what do you think he means there?
Speaker 7:he says then the offense of the cross has ceased well, you know, he's basically put the work of the cross, the office of the cross is the fact that it exists. It's what our Lord gave his sacrifice on. And if you circumcision here, representing the entire law, if a law is represented, then you're basically making the cross to be nothing, to be of no concern, no value, no atonement, no, no, anything.
Speaker 2:And so that's right. No, keep going, you're dead on.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I mean, you know. So basically, you know you're replacing the atoning work of Christ with going backward into something that was never meant to be, such as they're presenting Right Selfific.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah. So what he's saying? So he calls, so he's saying that if this is the case, then the offense of the cross has ceased, and he's basically saying that. He's basically saying that because offense is also another word for stumbling block. Right, right, Stumbling blocks, offense. This is the same sort of language. He's saying that because offense is also another word for stumbling block. Right, right, stumbling blocks, offense, this, this is the same sort of language. And he says that if you introduce, if you're preaching, if he were preaching circumcision, if he was preaching that, which he was not, then he would. That would be making the cross an offense or a stumbling block. But now I want to ask this a stumbling block or an offense to what?
Speaker 7:Do you know, To faith, to true faith. You know, I mean to salvation.
Speaker 2:But well no, it wouldn't be. The cross would not be a stumbling block to faith and salvation. But well no, it wouldn't be. The cross would not be a stumbling block to faith and salvation.
Speaker 7:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:What is it, Meg? It's the gospel. No, it wouldn't be that either. No, not that either.
Speaker 5:To the chief cornerstone the law keepers. Nope, Well, kind of Okay. Who said the law keepers?
Speaker 2:Nope, well, kind of Okay. Who said that? Law keepers, angie, Take that a little further, angie.
Speaker 6:The Judaizers, the law keepers, the ones that didn't have faith in Christ Jesus. It's a stumbling block because they didn't believe in it.
Speaker 2:But they were Judaizing. To what end? What was their goal in Judaizing? What was it to do? What was it pressuring people to do? Works, works, which is what.
Speaker 6:Works, which is the law. It's a part of the law.
Speaker 2:And it's human effort right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at.
Speaker 2:You said works, but I just wanted to add that other part to it. So what he's saying is this If I preach circumcision, then if I preach the circumcision, then that means the cross has become an offense and a stumbling block to human effort, to human merit, to works, the works of men. So you often see this used in the reverse, but Paul uses that concept and he applies it to him. Human pride, he's saying if I introduce into grace circumcision, first of all, it doesn't make sense that I would do that, because if I were doing that, then I wouldn't be persecuted, and I'm being persecuted, as you clearly know. So that can be the issue. So that being true that I'm not preaching that, but if I were preaching that, then this would also mean that the cross has become an offense, or would be an offense and an assembling block, not only to me but to everyone who I'm preaching to.
Speaker 2:If I am preaching circumcision in addition to justification by faith and this is what he is saying the cross is offensive to the will of man, it's an offense, it's a stumbling block to the will of man. This is what the apostle is saying. It's a stumbling block to human pride and ego. That's right, sister Angie. That's right, brother Brian, a rock of offense.
Speaker 6:Can I say something about that ego? Because you know, it's not just pride. The ego makes it based on human efforts too, but it also hurts their feelings, Like they are all up in there and they get angry, and so that's why Paul was being personal.
Speaker 2:But, sister, this is, this is exactly what he's saying Right now. When you so, when you read this, this should make us clearly understand why people who are called themselves Christians foam at the mouth when you talk about. Man has no free will.
Speaker 6:That's right, that's right, brother.
Speaker 2:That's right. This is why they foam and foment all this foolishness. This is why they fuel their disdain for the truth that we try to present.
Speaker 5:This is why what are you saying that? And the sad part about it is is they think they have all the time in the world.
Speaker 2:They think they're right. Sister, they think they're right.
Speaker 5:Not all of them, some. Some know they're they're wrong, but they're not ready to give up that worldly life.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 5:As of what it can bring. In the end, they would rather take that chance of not waking up tomorrow. And then what?
Speaker 3:The truth of the matter is, when it comes to free will what Jonathan's talking about right now get ready. You will lose friends, you will lose family over this one thing, that's right.
Speaker 5:one thing trust me, I should because we don't want to do the things that they continue to want to do, that we know is not good for our souls. That is not. That's not who we are anymore.
Speaker 3:Going alive and say, just mention, you ain't got no free will, I'm going down.
Speaker 5:The only free will is a free will to sin. That's it.
Speaker 6:Sister Meg. I mean, I've lost all the family members and all the friends. They were not even part of the faith family. That's the thing. God removed all those people and he replaced them with brothers and sisters. They weren't friends, they were brothers and sisters in Christ. So yeah, that did happen already, and anybody that comes in that tries they turn around and walk away from me because they can't handle the truth. And so that's me, and I'm okay with it because I don't put who I am in Christ based on that.
Speaker 2:Well, look, paul, he was in the process of being persecuted. He tells you right here and this is the reason why he's saying that if you want to do things your way, then the cross is an offense to you. The cross has become your stumbling block. You trip, you trip over it, and he already told them. You did run well, but what's hindering you, it's that, it's that human merit that you so desperately want to inject. Everybody listening. I'm telling you submit to Christ fully and completely. Your will does not enter into the equation, and if it does, the cross has become an offense to you. The cross has become a stumbling block to you has become a stumbling block to you.
Speaker 1:What is it about when folks, when you tell them that there's no free will? What do you guys think is the reason why it's such a visceral reaction To me? It reminds me of how Golem acts when you take the ring of power away from him.