The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Be Ye Separate (PART 2 of 3)
Walking with Christ often means walking alone. In this raw, unfiltered conversation, believers share their heartbreaking struggles with maintaining faith while loving family members who don't share their spiritual journey.
The discussion opens with a powerful examination of what it truly means to be "separate" as Christians. Rather than superiority or judgment, this separation stems from a desire to honor God while desperately wanting to see loved ones come to faith. As one brother vulnerably shares his anguish over his atheist son, the community responds with compassion, prayer, and stories of hope.
A sister reveals how she was once "that child" who responded with hostility to her mother's faith—until persistent prayer broke through her resistance. Another recounts the painful consequences of being unequally yoked in relationships with non-believers, offering both warning and hope to others in similar situations.
Perhaps most striking is a father's testimony about telling his daughter he couldn't attend her wedding to a Muslim man—not from rejection but from unwavering commitment to biblical truth. "Who do I serve?" he asks, highlighting the excruciating choices faith sometimes demands.
Throughout the conversation emerges a powerful truth: sometimes our separation itself becomes our greatest testimony. When we lovingly but firmly stand for truth, it creates questions that can lead to transformation. As one member puts it, "Learn how to annoy the Lord until he gives you what you want," referencing Jesus's parable of the persistent widow.
This heartfelt exchange reminds us that authentic Christian community isn't about perfection but transparent vulnerability—sharing our struggles, bearing one another's burdens, and persisting in prayer for those we love. Whether you're praying for an unbelieving child, navigating difficult family relationships, or struggling to maintain your faith in a hostile environment, you'll find encouragement and practical wisdom in these stories of faithful endurance.
Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!
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Sunburnt SoulsChristian Mental Health Podcast Hosted by a Pastor with Bipolar. Faith and Mental Health.
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on one level or another, on a day by day basis, suffer through much mental and heart anguish, mourning for sin, begging and pleading God to bring a person that you really love to faith, so that you can have that fellowship with that person. You want to see them saved with that person. You want to see them saved, but what you cannot do is join with them and be carried away, as the Bible puts it, with their dissimulation. You want them to become as you are, not the other way around. And another significant element to that is you have to search your own heart and examine your own heart to see whether or not you are a person that anybody should become like.
Speaker 1:And again I want to put an emphasis on the fact that I'm not suggesting that we are perfect. That's not what I'm saying. But we can perfectly desire to be Christ-like with every fiber of our being, in spite of our shortcomings and misgivings. Because when a person shares that, you sharpen one another and push each other in that right direction and you agree to be accountable to one another. And that agreement is often verbal support and sometimes it's action. When a person says I'm not going there with you, I'm not going to that Super Bowl party, or I'm not going to that barbecue Because you know what's going to happen when you get there, because you know who's going to be there, you know what they're going to do, you know how they're going to talk. Let's not lie to ourselves, paz. What do you think, sister?
Speaker 2:I think everything that you said is very true. I'm probably the worst person to speak to about this, so I'll give it to someone else.
Speaker 1:All right, brother Brian, go ahead. You were going to say something, brother.
Speaker 3:Thank you, yeah, so oh, man, I completely relate to everything that you said, Because when I first came to faith two years ago, I was a big drinker. Now not this. Sorry, I can't concentrate when I speak.
Speaker 1:No, some people don't have their mic, their mute mic, but go ahead, ryan.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I was a guy that you know. When I finished work or off work I'd go into town, go to the pub, pub, you know me and my friends would meet up and we just drink, drink, drink. But when I came to the faith I was, I remember, going to the pub one time. It was like the second time I went after I was saved and that second time I went the conversation on my right hand side made me shrivel and the conversation that was at an opportunity on my right-hand side made me shrivel. And the conversation that was at an opportunity on my left-hand side. I said I don't want to be involved in that anymore and I actually left half of my pint on the counter, sent him off to the loo and I just went home and I never, never, went back to the place again. I just could not stick it.
Speaker 3:And when I first came to the faith, the first church that I joined to receive the word, you're talking about being a lonely place being a Christian in the world. It's also a lonely place being a Christian in the world of Christianity, because this church I had my Bible in my hand after service. I was talking about how great the service was. I wanted to show people other scriptures that I was after learning that, you know, kind of adheres to what the teaching was about today, and I just was on fire and after maybe six or seven weeks of doing that, I noticed, oh, hold on, now, these people are not as interested as I am. Hold on, now, these people are not as interested as I am.
Speaker 3:And actually these people have been saying the same thing in, in and out for these past six and seven weeks and it was actually incredibly upsetting for me, um, because then I was doubting who they were, you know, and I didn't want to do that really. But that went on for a while and then I realized, okay, okay, this is a very lonely walk, right, um, yeah, so I completely read. But how do we do it? How do we change people? There's only one answer we can change people and that's with the word. The word of god has the ability to change hearts, and that's what we do.
Speaker 1:That's right, brother, sister mariah. What do you think?
Speaker 6:Sister Mariah, what do you think? One second please.
Speaker 1:Sure, I'll come back to her Meg what do you think, sister?
Speaker 7:It's a very lonely world. Like you said, it's um. You can. When you read the word of God, you can really identify with Haggai as the broken hearted, you know prophet. You can identify with Jeremiah as the weeping prophet. You can identify with all these people. But the world gets lonely. But you better believe that those people that don't talk to you because you talk about Jesus too much and they don't want to hear it when life gets hard for them, they're the first person you call because they know that you're there praying and that you'll encourage them and that you'll lift them back up again. But any other time it's like all right, but you're good when life gets hard.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 7:They're going to run right to you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, brother Jeffrey. Good morning brother. How are you doing?
Speaker 5:I am well, can you hear me okay?
Speaker 1:I hear you fine.
Speaker 5:Am I getting any feedback to anybody? Nope.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, brother Speak.
Speaker 5:Okay, thank you. Part of the problem, jonathan. I'm on my iPad and I had my iPhone sitting next to me.
Speaker 1:That's all right, brother Jesse just speak.
Speaker 5:Okay, I didn't know really what you were talking about until a couple of minutes ago, jonathan. I'm dealing with that right now. I saw my son on Friday night, who is an atheist. We had a good visit. I pray for him often, as we talked about starting to annoy God with prayer, okay, but something inside of me changed and now I'm having to go back and look at that and say my time with him is already limited. I may have to limit it even more. This is my own son, my only son that I'm talking about, and so I need for you all to understand right now that this has really thrown a monkey wrench into Jeffrey. I'm not encouraging anybody and I'm not serving anybody right now because I'm a mess and I'm telling you all this to be accountable, not because I'm proud of it, because I'm hurting and I've hurt you. All this to be accountable, not because I'm proud of it, because I'm hurting and I've hurt Joni this morning, because I was a total jerk, because I am confused.
Speaker 1:I'm hurt, not physically.
Speaker 5:Not physically, emotionally. She is fine and well. She's right here. But, Jeffrey, right now and I'm not asking for sympathy and I'm not expecting any right now and I'm not asking for sympathy and I'm not expecting any, but I need to be accountable to you, my friends and my only family I got, I failed. I'm not encouraging right now, I'm not serving right now. Would you all, when you have time, please pray for me, and I'm going to get out of here, I'm going to go silent and listen some more, because I need to listen and not talk. Love you all.
Speaker 1:All right, brother, let me say something to everybody here. One thing that I can't stand is when people say I'm going to pray for you and it sort of just sounds like a rote, mechanic, cliche statement to make to people who you know really need the Lord's help. So I'm going to ask everybody here, sometime today, pray for this brother, brother Jeffrey. And all I'm saying is that if you can do it, mean it, do it. I'm going to, and I'm asking and I'm appealing to all of you to also appeal to the Lord on his behalf. I know what he's talking about. He was at my house last week in person. We talked about it and you know the Lord knows the details. Just check in with the Lord on his behalf. It doesn't take long. All I'm saying is just mean it, and I'm not suggesting any of you will do that and don't mean it. I'm just you know what I'm talking about, because people throw that out there all the time. I'm praying for you. Really pray for this brother today, because this is Him telling us this.
Speaker 1:This is what happens in the real temple of God. This is what is discussed. This is where requests are made. This is where we understand the needs that we need to go to God and to address and, like Sister Amy says, if you say you'll pray, do it. You don't have to say it out loud, just do it. If you were listening to him, you can tell this is not something that's manufactured. He's hurting and a lot of people are in the same situation. So go ahead, brother Jeffrey, go ahead. What were you going to say?
Speaker 5:I just want to say, jonathan, that if I've come across as phony, Stop that nonsense.
Speaker 1:Let me stop you right there, brother. Let me stop you right there. You don't need to do that.
Speaker 5:I feel like I do, jonathan, because I need to be accountable and I want other people to know that when I'm in my right mind, which is not at this moment, I want to be someone that's there to encourage and serve them any way I can, if possible. I feel like a phony and a fraud right now and will this pass? Yes, but it gets deeper sometimes when I go into it. I understand, I'm done Okay thank you.
Speaker 1:We're praying for this brother and that's what we're doing, and people are already doing that, brother Jeffrey. So I'm going to get my chance when we get off here. I look forward to appealing to the Lord on your behalf. Sister Lisa, go ahead.
Speaker 4:Well, I just wanted to say to Jeffrey you are not alone in this, brother. I think many of us have children who are struggling. I mean, it is what Jonathan says is when we really walk with the Lord, we become separate.
Speaker 4:They separate themselves, and I have one daughter who is born again and two who claim that they love the Lord, but their lives it's like what we're talking about now and it's hard separating, but I think they separate. So the pain is there, it's real. We have people that we love. These are our kids, sometimes our parents, but you're not alone and I pray, just so you know.
Speaker 4:I haven't prayed for you personally, which I will do, but I pray for us as a body, every single day, for those of us who have family members, who who aren't, who aren't on this, on this walk, and we all know the road is narrow. So I will keep you in my prayers, just know that. And you aren't on this, on this walk. We all know the road is narrow, so I will keep you in my prayers, just know that. And you aren't alone, and don't ever. I think it's so refreshing that you, that you, that you ask for prayer. I mean that's what we need to do. Many times we just shut down. So you're going to get prayer, brother, just know that, that's all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some people, some people, many people, most of us, I would I would I would render a guess have a very hard time being transparent, because we don't want to be known. We don't want, we don't want to be seen, we want our, our religion to be a secret. And the reality is, there is nothing better than to have God's people to know what's going on and to reach out to him on your behalf. You know, and so it's important to do that. Sister Paz, go ahead go ahead.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to give some kind of encouragement, um, to get people to pray, because I was that child, um, um, I was living. I always thought that god existed, but I was living like an ungodly life. And my mom was saved before me and she was desperate, as a mother, for me to be saved too. She tried to tell me the gospel and I was absolutely horrible to her. I had this hostility towards God and I didn't know where it came from. I didn't mean to react the way that I did, but at the same time, I didn't understand why I was reacting the way that I did. I was very angry and hostile towards her whenever she'd talk about God or the gospel even though I could see the glory of God in the way that he changed her and she'd become a new creation.
Speaker 2:And I wanted it too. Um, but I was just running in the other direction and I think it goes with scripture as well when it says that we are in hostility to god and things god are foolish, um to us, etc. Um, but my mum, she um backed off a bit so that there was less hostility between us and she just got everyone she knew to pray for me and the Lord answered her, like five years later. I'm not saying it's certain, if it's in the Lord's will, then he will, but prayer definitely. God uses prayer as a means and it worked for me.
Speaker 1:It does, sister. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:It's a great encouragement.
Speaker 1:Brother DT, are you willing?
Speaker 9:Do I have an echo? One second? Let me turn my volume down a little bit. How about now? Does it sound okay? Sounds great.
Speaker 9:First and foremost, we have at our disposal the one who is the beginning and the end, who is all things. Everything that is made was made by him. His maid was made by him. There is nothing anywhere that God does not see, hear, know. He is everywhere. He is in you, he is in me, he is in us and we are gathered now together Together. We are that body, we are. We are that body we are, we are that church.
Speaker 9:Heavenly Father, I am asking now to hear, to hear our voice as we pray for our child, we pray for Jeff's son. I am asking, in the name of Jesus Christ, lord, that you make his heart turn. Lord, you have the power. Anything I ask, anything we ask in your will. It will be done. We believe it, we know it. We are here because of you.
Speaker 9:There is nothing stopping us. There is nothing stopping this from happening, father. There is nothing that can stop you and we are asking, in the name of Jesus Christ, to make Jeff's son turn around. Lord, to join the family, to join the family. Show him, make that light, that spark, make it happen. Make it happen. And we will continue to pray, lord, as often as it takes, because you tell us to knock, to knock. If not for the will to come down, for our shameless audacity of our persistence, we will keep in praying, we will keep asking, we will not stop, we will slow down our day, put everything on hold, and we will pray, because that's what we're here to do. We use the weapon of love, that's what we are armed with and we are praying today. Father, we are asking for this in the name of Jesus Christ. If anyone else wishes to speak and to add, please do so.
Speaker 8:Brother Jeffrey, I just want to encourage you Because I know what it's like to be in that position that you're in with somebody that you love. But there are many nights that I have cried over my father and I was a teenager and I was praying and praying, and praying, and finally one day I went up to him and I was like, dad, I'm going to tell you something. I will never see you again. You are 72 years old and if you die and you don't know Jesus, I will be separated from you forever. I will never see you again. And my dad tells me now that the moment that I said that to him, something hit him and it broke his heart, because the love that we have for our family, it breaks you.
Speaker 8:But I'm going to tell you something, brother Our God has a promise to save our household and he made that promise and he's not going to forsake us or leave us, because it's our heart's desire. And he says, if we seek him first, the kingdom of God and his righteousness, that all things will be added unto us. And that is a promise. And so I want you to be encouraged that there is not any prayer that I have prayed that the Lord has not answered me. I have been in my room by myself and saying, lord, I need you to show up for me and I'm not going to leave this room, I'm not going to stop praying until you show up. And, brother Jeffrey, he will show up. Your faith will get it through. I'm telling you all of our faith and it breaks my heart. But I'm going to all of our faith and it breaks my heart. But I'm gonna tell you something you need to rejoice because the Lord is doing something, Jeffrey. Even when we don't think he is, he is, and so you just be encouraged. I love you and it breaks my heart.
Speaker 8:I'm sitting here in tears because I know how that feels. But I'm gonna tell you something this group of we love you and we love Joni and know that he is going to come through. He will. He is not a God that will lie. He is a God of his word and he will do it. And our faith, together with yours, he's going to do it, just like the faith of those people, those people who lifted that layman who went on the roof, and their faith, by their faith, they put him down at the feet of Jesus and he was healed and, brother, our faith is taking your son to that roof to lay him at the feet of Jesus, and he is going to believe you. Just thank the Lord, brother, and we love you and we're here for you, and don't you ever forget that More than you have to You're right brother, right brother sister, pass, go ahead, I'm gonna stop soon for emotional damage.
Speaker 2:I cry every time I'm here. Um, I just want to say jeffrey as well, um, you're always welcome to reach out to me if you ever want to again me being that child before, and I just wanted to be open here and tell you guys a story. So when I was first saved um, as a baby Christian, I was very, um, like I didn't. I didn't grow up in church, I didn't know any scripture, so I didn't know about being unequally yoked and I fell into a relationship with someone I had known since I was um very much younger, a young teenager, and he became a Muslim. So he was very much unequally yoked during that time, and this is why I agree with the scriptures. During that time it was very much hostile darkness and light. Whenever I talk about God, he would get angry. Whenever he would talk about Prophet Muhammad, I would obviously get angry, um and we would just clash constantly. Um.
Speaker 2:During that time, um, my relationship with God suffered, um, I became more distant from God, I fell into sin. I had my daughter, um, I was severely chastised by God, uh, lost like temporal fellowship, would we say, with God, and found it very hard to come back to repentance. During that time I also fell into. It became an abusive relationship also with the butting heads, obviously about religion became physically and emotionally abusive. By the grace of God, he pulled me out of it and perhaps I didn't learn her lesson.
Speaker 2:She went straight into a relationship with an atheist and was severely chastised still and had my second daughter. And then God, by his grace, drew me back and drew me into actual repentance. My partner is an atheist. I have to live with an atheist now due to the consequences of my sin. So anyone that wants to reach out to me if they're going through anything in those situations or having to live with an atheist or not knowing what to do, I am here as a shoulder and we can lean on each other. That's what I wanted to say. But those are the realities of being unequally yoked. Those are the realities of going against God's word. And God doesn't abandon his children, but he will chastise you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, sister, for that. That's amazing. Let me tell you guys about something personal with me, because you know, doing these things, sometimes you know you get a person who leads something or starts something in these kind of conversations and sort of, in some regard, remains aloof a lot of people, which is why I don't like the celebrity Christian type thing that we see today. But I'll say this I have two daughters and my youngest one was in a relationship and I'll be frank with you. I just because the circumstances when I was younger, you know you make decisions that aren't wise and I have, you know, two daughters from a previous marriage and they're grown now. Two daughters from a previous, you know, marriage and they're grown now.
Speaker 1:But I, I have to admit, um, to my own detriment, that I was not the father that I really, really wanted to be. A lot of reasons for that, um. But my youngest one and this this goes back in the last few years was involved with a gentleman who, for all intents and purposes, was a nice guy and he was raised Muslim. My daughter was raised Christian, obviously, and um, and she was making some decisions that seemed to be going down the path of permanence with this particular person, and the conversation came up about marriage, being married to this person, and, um, and she was telling me about it, and I think that the understanding with it was that this was something that I would be understanding about, and I was not understanding because I cannot be. And so one of the most difficult things that I've ever had to say in recent years was to tell my own daughter if you marry this man, I will not be there, I will not give you away, I will not sit in a pew, I will not sit in the back room, I won't even park outside. I won't be there. There is nothing about that marriage that I would be wanting to celebrate If it were to happen. And I told her that there's only one condition, one condition whereby I would attend a wedding Between her and this man, and that is if he became what you are a Christian or you become what he is non-Christian. In other words, if you admit to me that you really aren't a Christian that's been saved by grace, that Jesus Christ is not your Lord, whether you're serving Allah or not, all you have to do is tell me that Jesus Christ is not your Lord, whether you're serving Allah or not. All you have to do is tell me that Jesus Christ is not your Lord, and I'll be at your wedding and I could sense the pain that my words Elicited, and you can have a demeanor on the outside that exudes strength, but imagine being a father Having to tell your daughter this. Imagine other people knowing that you're saying this and telling you that you're cruel. Imagine people telling you that's not showing support. But who do I serve? Who do you serve?
Speaker 1:I didn't say I wouldn't go, but I'm not going to celebrate. The very thing that Paul says is what we should not do Joining ourselves with the unbelievers, celebrating the marriage of a Christian soul becoming in union with someone who is an unbeliever, much less a Muslim. But, like Joshua said, if you're not going to serve God, then you choose whatever God you want to serve. Choose you this day, whom you will serve, but me and my house, we're going to serve the Lord, and so what I'm saying is it's painful to be who we are and what we are, who we are and what we are.
Speaker 1:I had a similar situation when the issue came up about Going to, when the discussion was had about going to A gay wedding. I wouldn't be caught dead Witnessing A gay marriage. They can do it all day long, that's their civil right to do. But you'd have to drag my dead carcass into a church to witness that and to celebrate that. The same way you'd have to drag my dead carcass into me watching my daughter get married to a Muslim. I will never do it Unless she tells me she's not. She doesn't serve the Lord, jesus Christ, and my daughter couldn't do that. You're talking about my little girl, my baby, and I gotta tell you Nothing, nothing, let's just say when she called me to tell me that that relationship was over, it was bittersweet, I was happy, but I was also hurt for her sake.
Speaker 1:When Paul tells us to be separate, to come out from among them, he doesn't give a list of exemptions when we find our children or our siblings or our parents. He didn't say come out from among them, with the exception of these folks. Of these folks, christians underestimate the significance Of the ministry Of separation, because Sometimes it is the separation itself that becomes the biggest Testimony you can ever give, because when they feel that if they truly want to be around you and you pull yourself away from them many times, they're going to want to know why. But as long as you're willing to celebrate with them and hang out with them and they're like everything is okay, they don't feel sometimes that there's anything they need to change, because the whole idea is that if you're willing to celebrate with them and hang out with them and they're like everything is okay, they don't feel sometimes that there's anything they need to change, because the whole idea is that if you're there with them to some degree, you're okay.
Speaker 1:So meg was right. Brother jeffrey, like you and we talked about this when you were here we, when we desire something and we want it really bad, learn how to and make it a practice of annoying the Lord until he gives you what you want, like an unjust judge who would refuse to give that lady justice, but he ended up giving her justice so that he could shut her up. Go ahead, paz.
Speaker 2:I just want to say, yeah, I've annoyed the Lord a lot about my partner and he was someone that was very in hostility to God. Well, I don't know that a God exists. I need facts, not just beliefs and opinions. Didn't want to hear anything about God and just was totally hard against it. And the more I annoyed the Lord and was in prayer, really praying for it, god answered me and softened his heart towards it. He's not saved yet, but he was started to be willing to read scripture. I mean, I sat with him for hours on end until the like sunrise of him asking question after question about god and I started to see that that change and that in being intrigued, as well as me standing on the word of God and you were just saying, if they don't see a need for change, then they're not going to know anything, the more I stood on the word of God, the more he saw the glory of God and was intrigued by it. So prayer and standing on the word of God is really important, especially when being around unbelievers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely sister.
Speaker 5:Brother Jeffrey, go ahead ahead and then four known jonathan during the course of my life because ultimately I know that's what's best for me, whether I deem it that way at that moment or not. The issue with my son largely is the fact, the guilt that I carry, because at the early stages of his Christian life as I've shared with all of you before maybe those of you who are here that don't know, as I was a pastor at that time, eyeball deep in adultery I've shared that. You all know that story and the confusion and the misdirection for lack of a better word that it put into him at that time. I still feel like that is still there and he feels like, well, if God was doing all of that and God was permitting all of that to go on in dad's life, then there is no God and I have always felt like he is his own man. Now, of course he makes his own decisions and he has to answer for himself. I understand that clearly. But the root or the cause of that ultimately, at least in my mind, falls on me. Falls on me, but as I've been saying here in the scroll, the fact that we are all broken people and, as Jonathan was alluding to a moment ago, and then I'll stop. It's good for us, I think, anyway, to be broken and transparent with each other, because I do not want to deceive any of you into thinking that I'm something more or less than what God created me to be, because I'm not Okay, I am what he created me and that's all I want to be me and that's all I want to be.
Speaker 5:But it's been a hard road, like all of you have been through, to get to where we are, and sometimes it's been difficult. Sometimes we've had regrets. I know I've had mine, you've had yours, megan, you brought tears to my eyes when you shared a little bit deeper story about your dad. That's wonderful. We are so thankful that he came to Christ recently and that you and him will be singing together in eternity. Never forget what Jesus did for you and for him. And so I would just say, folks, that you are the family that Joni and I have, and I got to visit my brother last weekend and, boy, what an upper that was. But when great, great joy comes into my life, the enemy comes with everything he's got, trying to steal it and snatch it away, and that's part of where I am right now, but your prayers are working. So, on behalf of Joni and me, thank you all. We love you all, and thank you for your love for us. Thank you, brother.
Speaker 1:Brother Fornone go ahead, and then Mariah.
Speaker 10:Yeah.
Speaker 10:So I just wanted to bring up because it started to really become explicit as we were talking about these things and the topic about being unequally yoked realized is that you know, from God's perspective, look what, look at God's um, uh feelings towards this in the old Testament, when he had the, the Jews um wipe out uh the people, the other, uh people in the old Testament because he didn't want them mixing.
Speaker 10:So we know what God's perspective is on it he's, he's hardcore, he's wipe out everyone, he doesn't want any of the leaven. So he's extremely powerful on on not mixing and not allowing that into with sinners and prostitutes and tax collectors. So he's showing grace. So you know, on the one hand, we have to be extremely vigilant not to be taken down by, you know, by living amongst these people and being influenced by them, but then, on the other hand, allowing Jesus to offer his grace to them. I just thought it was an interesting perspective on both of those to see how serious God takes it on one hand, but then also the extension of grace through Jesus for all these people as well.
Speaker 1:Amen, brother, sister Mariah, I'm sorry to get back to you.
Speaker 6:I resonate with it a lot and before I was saved I had a background of Christian knowledge and things of that nature. But my husband, he was raised a Jehovah Witness and I didn't get saved until 2015 when I understood properly. But he has, too, been saved and now shares in the glory of God, correctly, in the right way, and although it's, the norm is for a man to lead the woman into, to God and, you know, be the provider and the leader of all things. I'm just happy and a witness to know that God can use whomever to bring whomever to.