The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Walk in the Spirit (Part 3 of 4)
The battle between biblical truth and modern spiritual practices takes center stage as we dive deep into one of Christianity's most divisive topics: speaking in tongues. What exactly happened at Pentecost when the apostles—simple Galileans with no reputation for education—suddenly spoke in languages they'd never learned? Why were the hearers amazed not by unintelligible babbling but by understanding clear messages in their native tongues?
Through careful examination of Scripture, we uncover how today's common practice of "speaking in tongues" fundamentally differs from the biblical gift. The apostle Paul himself states, "If I'm going to speak, I'm going to speak with my understanding as well"—challenging the notion of unintelligible "prayer languages." More troubling is how this practice has become a spiritual measuring stick, with some believers claiming those without this gift lack the Holy Spirit entirely.
Former practitioners are now coming forward, admitting they "faked it for years" under intense social pressure from their congregations. When similar manifestations appear in non-Christian religious groups, we must ask the difficult question: what spiritual source is really behind these experiences?
At its core, this conversation addresses the sufficiency of God's Word. Do modern Christians need miraculous gifts when Scripture "truly furnishes us for every good work"? Every era of church history faces unique spiritual battles, and today's challenges include discerning between walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh—between genuine spiritual experiences and counterfeit ones that may feel supernatural but lead away from biblical truth.
Whether you've experienced charismatic worship or come from more traditional church backgrounds, this eye-opening exploration will challenge you to evaluate all spiritual experiences against the measuring stick of Scripture. The question remains: are we satisfied with Christ and His Word alone, or are we seeking additional experiences to validate our faith?
Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
that they weren't born speaking that language. That's the only way we knew. If you go back to Acts, you remember they said aren't these all Galileans, by the way, the least educated of all the people of that time period, they weren't from Greek, they weren't from Greece or Rome, they were the intellectual centers of the world at that time. No, they were Galileans. And he said did we not understand? How are these Galileans speaking to us in our language? And remember, all of the apostles were Galileans, every one of them. They were all Galileans, Every one of them, they were all Galileans. The only one who wasn't a Galilean was Judas, interestingly enough. But the Galileans were not known for being stellar academics. Let's just say they weren't known for that. Greeks, they were Greeks, they were Rome, they were, but not the Galileans. And so, when the people were going, aren't these Galileans? How is it that they can speak to us in our language? These are learning people, but Christians.
Speaker 1:Every time somebody talks about speaking in tongues, they're saying that the word of God is not complete enough, not sufficient enough, and they are saying that what it is they're saying is infallible, because if God gave you the gift, what you're saying is his truth. Most of these people that are speaking in tongues today. They can't tell you what they're saying, but they can tell you for sure that it is not the language of demons. How is that if you don't know what you're saying, demons? How is that if you don't know what you're saying? Paul says if I'm going to speak, I'm going to speak with my understanding as well. That is the best exercise in prudence.
Speaker 1:No Christian in America has any need for a gift of speaking in tongues. It is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. We have the word of God, which Paul tells us plainly when he talks to Timothy, and he says that the word of God truly furnishes us for every good work, every good work. The word of God furnishes, truly, furnishes, completely, furnishes us. We don't need the miraculous. We're not denying God his ability to do the miraculous. That's not what we're doing. But we are saying this that God is a God of order and when he establishes that which is complete and when he establishes that which is perfect, we put away that which is incomplete and that which is imperfect and that which is partial, and that is the general rule.
Speaker 2:Sister Lisa, go ahead are actually a few people on this app now which is super refreshing that are coming out and saying they faked it for years.
Speaker 2:They belong to a church that was full on. You know, everybody liked to speak in tongues and they literally would shame people until they just started faking it and throwing themselves on the ground and so on and so forth. And they're coming out now and I think the dangerous thing, or it's just sad, because there are baby Christians and I remember myself when I first came to Christ, coming on this app and seeing all the I mean I just picked up the Bible for the first time in 2020. So everything was new and I didn't know whether this time I mean until I really read the word and got into it I thought it was possible. But then they were saying, well, if you don't have the gift of tongues, they'll go so far as to say that you don't have the Holy Spirit. And then you know that was a big red flag for me and praise the Lord. You know I kept reading and learned for myself, and that's all I wanted to add is that they're just admitting it's a lie.
Speaker 1:A lot of them. And not to mention that now you have I'm challenging anybody, go look this up. Now you have I'm challenging anybody, go look this up. Now you have other religious groups, quote unquote speaking in tongues, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, like Catholics. You got to ask yourself if they're doing it, how do you distinguish you from them? Is the same God speaking to them? That's speaking to you. You got to be careful, because the Lord wants us to focus on one thing his son, his word. That's it. Especially if you're telling people you don't know what you're saying, because everybody that tells me they're speaking in tongues, I ask them what are you saying? Well, I don't know. It's the heavenly language, it's baloney. I hate to use such a cheesy expression, but it's true, it's silliness. Brother Jeffrey, encouraging sermon, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Raya was ahead of me, sir. Do you want to take her first? Okay, all right. Well, as you were sitting here explaining to us, jonathan, about how the tongues has been so prevalent in modern-day thinking and theology, and so many people call it a quote, people call it a quote, private prayer language between them and God, jonathan, it just dawned on me that's works. That's works. That's not grace, that's works. And what does Galatians tell us about works? It belongs on the ash heap. Works, it belongs on the ash heap. So that should tell us pretty much right there where tongues is now. It's dead with the apostles, or it died with the apostles back then. And, as you alluded to a moment ago, brother, we can translate the precious message of Jesus into any language we want and print as many Bibles as we want. So I just thank you for making that clear to us tonight, brother. We appreciate it, thank you, brother.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Mrs Mariah, go ahead.
Speaker 5:I've said this before, but I think that it's ironic that some of the translation devices and things that they have are called Babel. That is just so wild to me, because that's where the language was confounded, right? They, the world, who are not even believers understand that it was languages that one could not understand. They could not understand one or the other, and what God did was restore that for the apostles. So they may preach unto all people. So they may preach unto all people that all people may get the correct message in their own language from the source, from which, of course, christ is a source, but he had given it to them to go out. So I just find that very funny and strange, and and for it to be a heavenly language, it's like saying that our god isn't powerful enough to be able to hear our prayers in our own language, because unless satan steals them from the lord and I don't know how he could take anything that belongs to the lord or have dominion over the lord in any sense.
Speaker 1:So, mariah's sister, it is a good thing that Christians, it's a good thing that us Christians, are in a situation where we need to manage our tongues and not use the expletives that the world uses, because if I could, this would be one of those areas where I would. And what I mean by that it's just it really is so upsetting how it is so many people are missing out on the blessing, because I wonder how many people think that they don't have to spend their time in the word of god, don't have to spend their time in, in adhering to um holiness and to the into the claim until the commands to be holy. Because if you believe here's what I'm trying to say if you believe that the holy, that the, that speaking in tongues, for example, is evidence that the Holy Spirit is in you, that it can make you neglect all the other problems that you really have that you're not dealing with, because you have this evidence that the Holy Spirit is in you, when there is no indication at all that having any kind of a spiritual gift has anything to do with salvation, think about it. Think about those folks at the throne of judgment that talk about all the things they did in Christ's name, casting out demons, healing all these things, and they weren't even saved. Now you have the devil using counterfeit miracles.
Speaker 1:How do you not look at tongues and see this as a counterfeit miracle? I will never understand how Christians who call themselves Christians don't see that as counterfeit. But what I do understand is this A delusion that God himself says he will sin, a delusion that he himself says he will sin, so that those who do not love the truth will believe the lie. I don't understand. It is so frustrating If he tells you sorry, I dropped my bible. He says he's going to send a strong delusion so that people believe the lie. He's going to send counterfeit miracles so that those who do not love the truth Believe the lies. And I'm telling you People like the guy earlier.
Speaker 1:He's gone now, but he says we're talking about this whole tongues thing. He says I got to go, he can't take it. We're heretics. I'm a heretic For saying that this is all you need. Tongues can help me. I don't need it. It's a pacifier. It's one of those little capri suns that you give your little kids. But we live in it. We are grownups now, grownups in the faith, the evidence that we have that Paul is speaking about in Galatians. The evidence of our salvation is our faith.
Speaker 6:It's our faith, brother Jeff, man of of god, go ahead yeah, what I was gonna say is you know, I'm not saying that people, people who purportedly speak in these tongues are not saved per se although, well, they may not be, but certainly it. Certainly it certainly would impair somebody's witness if they were. Yeah, because using something like that, you know, basically you're going to drive people away that may be seeking for one, because they think you're nuts and they tend to repel those of us who know that they're speaking nonsense. It certainly would impair their witness. But you know you're right. I mean there are just so many things that I don't know that people grab hold of. I mean you know that are not true and that's Satan's tactic. I mean you know he creates false religions. I mean, let's face it, he's got a masterpiece in Islam. You know, one billion people in this world one of the population of the world follows a false religion inspired by Satan.
Speaker 1:Right, see, you know it's so true brother. Brother Kanan, go ahead no-transcript.
Speaker 4:It's the same thing can be said about any type of theology or doctrine.
Speaker 4:You can become so, and flatuated with it, that that becomes your primary goal to have these debates about a specific subject and that's all you're stuck on.
Speaker 4:But you never give anybody the gospel and so, just like tongues or any other subject, it can be abused, it can be over, um, looked as far as, like studying and things like that. So all these things pose serious dangers, but it's just like everything else. It's all spiritual warfare and we are constantly combating it, and so we need to be patient, gracious, give them the truth, correct them and hopefully they'll come and want to hear from us about why we have that perspective, because the real challenge is why do they say what they say and why do they believe what they believe? And to say ultimately hey, yeah, I want to look at your perspective and your side and I want to study your side without being biased, and really see if you're truly speaking the truth or if I'm the one that's deceived or if you are, because that's what it comes down to is to be consistent with our objections, but also with looking at the evidence.
Speaker 1:You know, you know what You're really. You're really right on that. And here's the thing. Like we are at verse 16 of Galatians 5, and he says walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. So, speaking in tongues, you have to understand this.
Speaker 1:Speaking in tongues is either walking in the spirit or it is fulfilling the lust of the flesh. It's one or the other. Everybody here listening to this needs to understand. It is one or the other. If this is walking in the spirit, it is something every Christian should aspire after, or it is fulfilling the lust of the flesh, and if that is true, it should be something that all of us should look at with great, tremendous disdain. So which is it I'm not asking to say out loud anyway. What I'm saying is speaking in tongues, like all these other miraculous so-called things. They are either walking in the flesh or they are fulfilling the lust of the flesh. I mean walking in the spirit, walking in the spirit or fulfilling the lust of the flesh. God's word, go ahead, brother, go ahead and speak.
Speaker 7:Add to what he was saying. There is that, yes, we're called to tell them the truth and, as you notice, the guy in the comments fled, as demons do when they're confronted with the truth. And, as Ezekiel says, let those who hear hear and those who refuse refuse. They will continue to walk in that demonic spirit and walk in the flesh, as you were saying.
Speaker 1:Right, mariah, go ahead.
Speaker 5:I know that in 1 John 4, it says that I'm going to paraphrase, but it says that greater is he that is in you than he that it is in the world, or they are the world and they speak of um like the world, and the world hears them, but we are of god and we that speak. I'm paraphrasing this part, but it says we that are of God speak and those that are gods hear us, but the world cannot. And so and this by this I know that it says by this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's exactly right. I mean, you know and see, and when, when it really everybody listen. When it comes down to because let's say I'm, let's say I'm wrong, which I'm not, but let's say I'm wrong on this issue it still comes down to this. I will be right about this. These things that we're talking about, they are either consistent with walking in the spirit or they are consistent with fulfilling the lust of the flesh. And this is what all of us have to answer to. Because here's the thing we will know every one of us probably knows at least one person who does this, that we want to believe they are amongst us, that they are one of us. If it's a young Christian who just came to the faith, I might have some leeway there. But as a matter of practice, me personally, I'm not saying these people belong to the body of Christ, I'm just not. I'm sorry, it's false, it is bad. It is false, it is bad, it is wicked, it is evil, it's not from God. Now, could I be wrong on the person? Yes, I could be, I want to be, I want to be. But when you start telling people that if you don't have this manifestations, you're not Christian, it's okay for them to do that, but it's not okay for me to tell them this isn't from God, because what I will say is this, and I'll say this with 100%, absolute, full-throated, whole chest in this Speaking in tongues is not from God, whether the person is a Christian or not. This speaking in tongues is not coming from God. If you ask me where it comes from, I'm going to tell you it is coming from Satan, plain and simple. Now, god working that out with you, that's up to you, that's between you and God. But I will know this this is not coming from God and this is plaguing Christianity today.
Speaker 1:This lie, it is such a big one. It's a big one and we cannot stand for it. We want people to rely on the word of God and living godly, holy lives, as difficult as that already is to do, and I know we want to believe that these people that we love, that they're Christian people, and this is just their little thing that we let them sort of get by with. We don't let them get by with anything. I know what I'm saying to a lot of people doesn't come out good for them, but I'm going to fight this till the day I die, because every era of the Christian church has a enemy that it has to deal with, and it's always different manifestations of how the enemy deals with the church and goes after and he finds weak spots in the body. Every different age there's a new one that comes up. Today, we live with dispensationalism. Today we live with this whole tongue speaking thing and this whole charismatic thing.
Speaker 1:These people who are pushing these things are pushing lies. It is demonic, and to think that it's not is to ignore everything that is coming from Satan, because if these aren't, then what is, then what is? None of these things can be substantiated. I can't tell you how many people have come to me when I've told them or have written to me or whatever, when I've told them. Show me anywhere in the Bible where you see this seven-year tribulation. I can't tell you how many people have come back to me and says I never knew, it wasn't there.
Speaker 1:But these things are intended to dissuade you from the truth and to persuade you into embracing a lie. There is no way that you can tell me that by me telling you. You don't need to speak in tongues. What you need to do is trust in God's word and listen to it, believe it. I'm bad because of that, because I'm saying that all you need is God's word. That's it. Then I'll be bad, evil, wicked Satan, and I'll be bad, evil, wicked Satan and I'll be a heretic if it means that me believing in the word of God, in Christ, the word only, christ only, I'll be that guy and then in the end we will see. And then we will see Christians. We need to understand what it is we are supposed to stand on. The Spirit of God enables us, gives believers the ability to overcome the desires of the flesh, and I believe that this whole tongue speaking and casting out demons and healing the sick all of it is a lie, and I believe it is also consistent with those things that Paul speaks about is fulfilling the lust of the flesh, because these people want to believe that they are having something supernatural, that they have these abilities, but all it is. It is feeding the flesh. That's all it is feeding the flesh. That's it In Romans.
Speaker 1:Let me read some verses for you to go along with this. In Romans, chapter 13,. Paul says this in verses 13 to 14. Let us walk. Let us walk and notice. I want you to focus on the time, the number of times that I use the word walk Now in Galatians. We already used it here in verse 16,. Walk in the spirit In Romans 13, 13,. Let us walk honestly, as in the day, not rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying, but put you on, put you all on the Lord, jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh and to fulfill the lust thereof.
Speaker 1:Ephesians 2, verse 1, 1 through 3. And you has he quickened, made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, wherein time passed, you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience, among whom also we all had our conversation or our conduct in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind. And we're by nature children of wrath, even as others. The last verses. I want to read the last two verses. First, peter four, verse two, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh, to the lusts of men, to the will of God. Second, peter two, verse two, 18, chapter two, verse 18. Of God 2 Peter 2, verse 2, 18. Chapter 2, verse 18.
Speaker 1:For when they speak great, swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lust of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean, escaped from them, who live in error. So, over and over again in these passages, you get this idea of people living according to their lusts, and these lusts are contrary to what it means to walk in the Spirit. It's not a glamorous doctrine to talk about. It's not a glamorous doctrine to teach and have a Bible study on. I realize that, but it is something that we must also be ready to understand and to listen to, because it's important to understand, to know what a lust in the flesh is versus what it means to walk in the spirit. And when Paul talks about it in verse 17, he says for the lusts in Galatians 5, 17, for the flesh. Listen to this.
Speaker 1:The flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. So here's what he's saying here. Listen to how he's putting it. In other words, he's putting it In other words the flesh lusts against the spirit and, in the same manner, the spirit lusts against the flesh. And so these are two opposing ideas the lust of the flesh and the lust of the spirit. The lust of the flesh and the lust of the spirit. The lust of the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit lusts against the flesh. We have a spiritual lust that is after holiness and godliness and righteousness in the Holy Ghost. But the spirit, I mean, but the flesh that's in us. Oftentimes it lusts against the spirit and, like somebody says, both cannot be prevailing at the same time.
Speaker 1:Cad Ben says there's a war going on, and there is. It is a war in our members, so much so that Paul can say that what I would do, I don't do, and what I don't do, that I do do. It's a crazy paradox that takes place within the bosom of us as believers. Bosom of us as believers. We want what we should not want and we deny what we should deny. I think I got that right. But you know what I mean the good that we want to do, we don't do. The bad that we do, we don't want to do the bad that we do, we don't want to do. And so we are always at this constant battle where we have to fight against the very things that distract us from holiness and from godliness. And God has given within us, in our hearts, the ability to resist and to fight. Brother Cam go ahead.
Speaker 8:Wow, I mean you said almost everything I wanted to say. I was like let me get in here, but I mean it's OK, let me let me start with the tongues thing. I mean it's okay, let me let me start with the tongues thing. First is actual human languages that the Holy Spirit had Luke pen. I mean we're, we're. We can actually read them in Acts. Chapter two is listed, so we don't have to like wonder about some supernatural babbling and all that. It actually lists what these languages were at the time right and they heard them in their native tongue.
Speaker 8:It's not like they didn't understand what was being said. I know english. If I, if I'm looking at a group of russians and they speak in English, I know what they said. But this is the thing that they don't want to talk about with that particular religion, because they've gotten caught, because it's incorrect. This was happening simultaneously. This was happening simultaneously. This group of Galileans, which were known to speak a certain language, was speaking all these other languages simultaneously. It didn't say Peter stopped and he spoke in creed, then he stopped and he spoke in this and then he stopped. No, no, he was speaking in all those languages same, and so was all the rest of them, and that's why they were like what in the world is? How can this even be possible? It cannot be counterfeited. What they're doing now is called babbling. It's repetitious, you can hear it, you can hear the repetition and it's spoken against in scripture. Do not do as the, what pagans do, and keep repetitiously speaking like this, as if God will hear you.
Speaker 1:I agree with 99% of that. Here's the part where I disagree, because this is what those who speak in tongues always argue. They believe that, let's say, you have 15 people in a room that speak 15 different languages, they believe that they can speak one language and all 15 people hear them in their own language. That's not what happens. That's not what happens. That's not what happens. So that's the part, brother, where I have to disagree with you, and we can talk about it. But here's what I'm saying, because what did Paul say?
Speaker 1:Paul says I thank God that I speak with more tongues than you all. You see what I mean. He's saying I spoke with more languages than you all. You see what I mean. He's saying I spoke with more languages than you all. So if tongues was just one gift or one language that was able to be understood by 15 people, or 15 people of different languages, then he wouldn't be able to say that. But what he said was I thank God that I spoke more tongues than you all In, in other words, that god gave me the gift of more languages than all of you. But the outcome, brother cam, is the same. What we're saying is exactly the same, because the, the but, but.
Speaker 1:But those who speak tongues today, just what you're describing is exactly what they use to say that this miraculous part is the fact that they could just speak with one voice and all the people that are there speaking different languages here no, that's not. They were given different languages and they spoke different languages and when they spoke, they knew exactly what they were speaking spoke different languages and when they spoke, they knew exactly what they were speaking. And it may be that they were speaking to the Parthians over here, speaking to you in your language, they're speaking to the Medes, they're speaking to them in their language, and Cappadocians and so forth. They all spoke in their own languages. And if those who spoke in tongues want to be really consistent if they want to really be consistent, then they would be saying that when somebody speaks in tongues, those are the only languages that people were speaking into, because it was only those 14 languages that were represented that day at that time.
Speaker 8:I know we disagree on just that little narrow part. Like you said, we can talk about that later, but they never do it. They're not doing that. That's not what we hear out here. They're not speaking to all the people in their languages, nor are they able to speak to them in one language, so they're not doing any of that. They say well, that's a different. What's in Acts, chapter two, is a different language than the gift of tongues. So you're talking about tongues and we're talking about the gift of tongues. So they done literally made up their own version of a quote tongues, it's a movement that they've invented. You started out in 1909 through that William J Seymour Azusa Street, California ministry. That happened out there. We know when it happened. And shortly after that they started saying oh, the Holy Spirit has fell again. Well, that's not Bible. The Holy Spirit hasn't left and come back. So if the root of the tree is no good, how can you say God's fixing it up and making it no?