The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Walk in the Spirit (Part 4 of 4)
What if your greatest spiritual struggle is actually the strongest evidence of your salvation? In this powerful examination of Galatians 5:17-18, we uncover a revolutionary truth often overlooked in modern Christianity: the war between flesh and spirit that rages within believers is proof of spiritual life.
While many Christians feel discouraged by their ongoing battle against sin, this internal conflict actually confirms the Holy Spirit's presence. Unbelievers don't experience this struggle—they sleep peacefully, unbothered by the conviction that keeps believers on their knees. Your resistance to temptation, grief over sin, and desire for holiness all testify to the divine life within you.
We explore Paul's emphatic declaration that those led by the Spirit are not under the law. This creates a clear distinction between true gospel freedom and the bondage of religious performance. No saint in Scripture was ever saved through law-keeping—Abraham, Moses, and all others received righteousness through faith alone. When we understand this truth, we're liberated from the crushing weight of trying to earn God's favor through religious observance.
The discussion tackles controversial topics like speaking in tongues, challenging the notion that such gifts serve as evidence of salvation. Instead, the true mark of the Christian is the daily struggle against sin and the desire to walk in holiness. Fellowship among believers creates spiritual bonds that transcend physical presence, uniting us in our common battle.
Are you struggling against sin? Take heart—your battle is evidence of life, not failure. Join us in embracing the war within as confirmation of your salvation and discovering the freedom that comes from being led by the Spirit rather than bound by the law.
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Oh, it started out wrong. It must still be wrong. If it's rotten when it started out, it must be rotten now. I don't see anything good coming out of it. All I see is evil and flesh being personified in the churches because they will tell you in a minute Don't you want, brother, all that God has for you? Wait a minute, we got. So now the devil then created two classes of Christian. Now you got to walk around feeling like, oh, I don't have all that God wanted for me. Sister, can you help me? Sure, I can. Let's go train you how to speak it. What Training to speak it? Come on, nobody got trained to speak in tongues. Nobody had to be influenced to speak in tongues. Either it happened to you or it did. So I could speak on this for days, but thank you for letting me speak.
Speaker 2:No problem. And, by the way, this is a book Every Christian should go. Look, it's a good one Speaking in tongues, a guide to research on glossalia, and glossalia is tongue, and that's where we get our word glossary. It's a real language. Brother Jeffrey, encourage and serve me, go ahead, brother.
Speaker 3:The Word, as we all know, is very clear on what it commands us we have to do and what needs to be done to be in right relationship with God.
Speaker 3:It tells us that we have sinned for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, that the wages of sin is death. God commends his love towards us and that, while we were yet sinners, christ died for us. Romans 10, 9, and 10 tells us the procedure for you to save Confess with your mouth, believe in your heart, okay. It also says after that has occurred and we begin walking in the spirit and following Christ, if we have sin, we can confess our sins. He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now, having said all of that, brother Jonathan, would you please show us a scripture that specifically commands us and directs us to speak in tongues? All of these other scriptures tell us precisely what we need to do. There is no scripture that I have found that commands us or tries to persuade us, tells us it's necessary or absolute that we speak in tongues to show the salvation that has occurred in our lives.
Speaker 3:I don't find that scripture. I don't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:And you won't? There isn't. So let me say this because I like what Brother Kev was saying, because even though on that one little issue we have a difference, but I will say this that we are on the same page in terms of what is happening out there today is not something that comes from God, and that's the key thing there that needs to be understood. But now Paul tells us in verse 17, there's only two verses left, and I think I'll get through verse 18 before we finish up tonight. But in verse 17, paul says again, for the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. So what he now? Here's what he's saying. He's presupposing this First of all, he's presupposing one, that there is a lusting of the flesh, and secondly, he is presupposing that the spirit also goes against, or lusts against, the flesh. So the lust against the flesh, I mean, I'm sorry, the lust of the flesh against the spirit and the spirit lusts against the flesh. All right Then. So he assumes that we know that these two principles are at work, and they are at work in the individual believer. But we also know he also explains that these are two contrary principles at work within the individual believer. These two things, okay Now.
Speaker 2:So there's a struggle that all believers have. There's a struggle, and no believer is free from this struggle, meaning spirit fighting against the flesh and flesh lusting against the spirit. But let me ask everybody here what does? Now? Here's the thing. I'm looking for one answer to this question what is the benefit to having this war? What does it tell us about ourselves? That is glorious, that is great, that is good. That God has done for us, for us to be able to have this, can I answer?
Speaker 1:Can I answer Go ahead, kev. That is great, that is good that God has done for us, for us to be able to have this. Go ahead, kev. Thank God for the war, because that means I'm safe, because there was no war. I was just doing my evil thing and thought it was good, and when there's a war that means you can say you know what there needs to be correction. But without war, you wouldn't know.
Speaker 2:That's my brother right there. See, listen, I don't need to add to nobody else, because that is it. The unbeliever doesn't have this struggle, they don't have that battle. Only the true believer has this war going on within. So what is it? It is the proof that we have spiritual life.
Speaker 2:You know, you watch these movies where the gangster I like gangster movies you know how movie, how they, how they kidnap somebody and then they want to have a give, a ransom. They want to, they want to, they want to have a ransom. And then the person who is being what do you it? When they want to get your money, you know, when they want you to pay to get their loved one back, they'll say, okay, I'll pay you the money. But what do they always say? They say I want proof of what, I want proof of what, proof of life, I want proof of life, proof of life.
Speaker 2:And so the war that goes on in the Christian soul between flesh and the spirit, it is proof of life. Like Brother Kenneth just says, it is proof that the principle of spiritual life is in us. If you are not having that struggle, you are not a Christian. You're not If you are not lusting after the flesh, and it is not ripping you apart. Making you desire God, making you pray to God, making you cry out to God, making you seek for accountability from your brother and sister. This is the evidence that you belong to him. Unbelievers do not have this problem. Be thankful, christians, that you have this problem. It's not everyday that you can be glad To have a problem of this magnitude, but, as a Christian, be thankful that you can resist and fight against the lust of the flesh.
Speaker 1:Amen. Amen, brother gives the lust of the flesh. Lord and conquerors, amen Amen brother Amen, Sister Lisa.
Speaker 2:What do you think?
Speaker 5:This is awesome. Yeah, I agree 100%. What can I add? Nothing.
Speaker 1:You're going to have me running around the house.
Speaker 2:Babe, god's word, brother, what do you got to say? Go ahead, brother.
Speaker 6:I may be wrong, but I've always considered this the trials and the tribulations of the true believers, the battle between the flesh and the spirit.
Speaker 7:Oh yeah, you're right 100% right, 100% right.
Speaker 2:Unbelievers don't have this problem. They don't. They're happy in their sin, they love their sin. They're not struggling, they're not mourning over sin, they're not trying to live a righteous, holy, godly life. They don't care that they're not saved. Brother, you are 100% right and these are things that we, as Christians, need to understand. We need to understand. We don't need to be clouded about these issues. Be certain about it. My sister, evie, says I hate mine. Evie, I want you to come up, even if you feel like you can't, because, before I close, I want you to sing something for us. So come on up, sister.
Speaker 2:Listen, christians, if you were not having this problem, if you were not having this war within your members, you have no evidence that you're a Christian. This is the evidence that you're a Christian, not tongues, not casting out demons. The evidence that you are a Christian, not tongues, not casting out demons. The evidence that you are a Christian Is this war Between the flesh and the spirit of God that dwells within you, the lust of the flesh Fighting it. This is the evidence that you are a believer, because unbelievers do not have this battle going on. They are not confronted with these, with this battle that we have. You are struggling with sin, whatever it is. Whatever it is, I don't need to go through the list. We'll go through the list later. I won't get to it tonight but I'll probably get to it tomorrow night or next Wednesday night or Tuesday night, whatever my next night on Galatians. We'll get to what they are, what a lot of these things are, and they're all encompassing. But notice, the unbeliever sleeps well at night. But notice, the unbeliever sleeps well at night. I'm troubled every night for something, for someone. You may not know this, you may find it hard to believe, and I'm not being hyperbolic, but I pray for every one of these people, every one of you that comes up here on these profiles, every name that I know. I speak out in prayer with the Lord daily. And also everybody whose name I don't know, who's here and who's listening, because you all are my family.
Speaker 2:And let me tell you something the wicked people in the world. They're not praying for anybody. They're not praying for anybody. They don't care about you. I don't care if they're family. If they don't know Christ, they don't care about you. They may tell you that I love you, but if they don't know Christ, they don't care about you. They may tell you that I love you, but if they don't know Christ, they don't love you the way they should. They don't love you the way godly people love God's people, so they don't love you like I do. We can be on here.
Speaker 2:We talked about this earlier today, I think it was. I don't have to see any of you face to face, but you and I both know, we all know, that there's a spiritual tie that binds us together and you feel it, you sense it. This is that spiritual aspect, that spiritual bond that we have, and for a believer it never goes away. It never goes away. So it may be difficult to fight against all those things that we have, that we resist, that we need to fight against the sin that so easily besets us. But notice, but know, some know this, christians, brethren, know this. I'm saying this for your edification, for your exhortation to build you up in this way, having that struggle. Be thankful that you have it, because it is proof of life. It is the proof of life that the spiritual, eternal, divine life that only Christ can give. This struggle, this fight against sin, is the evidence that you have it. The principle of life is in you, otherwise you have no struggles to worry about. You would just continue to go on gleefully and dolefully in this stupid life that you have, which has nothing meaningful within it To be spoken about.
Speaker 2:In verse 18, paul says but if you be led, guided, if you be led, guided, if you be led by the Spirit, he says you are not under the law. Here's where we're going to wrap it up. Notice this If you be led of the Spirit, if spirit of god, first of all, he can't lead you unless he's in you. So if he's leading you, he's in you. If he's in you, he's leading you. And paul says if you I want everyone to hear if I don't, if you, if nothing else makes sense tonight, please understand this. He says if you are led of the Spirit, then you are not under the law. If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Which means that if you are under the law, if you are living according to the law, if you believe or you're telling people that they must be living according to the law in order to be saved, these are folks who are not led by the Spirit.
Speaker 2:You, torah keepers, if you call yourself a Torah keeper, a law keeper or a person who believes that the only way I can be saved is if I honor God on Saturday or whatever. Whatever your law is, you're eating pork or whatever. Whatever your law is, you're eating pork or whatever whatever the law is. If you live according to any works of any law, you are not being led by the spirit, which means that the spirit of God is not in you. This is what Paul is saying. Look at what he says in Galatians 5, 18. If you be led of the spirit, you are not under the law. So the flip is also true If you are under the law, then you are not being led by the spirit.
Speaker 2:It's pretty simple to me, and this is what Paul was trying to make the Galatian church understand you don't need to be circumcised to be saved. You are justified by faith in Christ. You will either be justified by faith in him or you're going to be justified by law. You're going to be either led by the spirit or you're going to be governed by the law. Which will you have? Which will you have? Which will you have? And so, if you're going to be led by the spirit, it frees you, it releases believers, it gives you a release From the law and the covenant of works Completely. It has no power over you whatsoever. And the covenant of works completely. It has no power over you whatsoever. There is nothing that you can do to enhance or to obtain salvation by law. Keeping To be under the law is to be under its condemnation and powerless to fulfill it Absolutely powerless, like Brother Kev says. You pick this day, moses or the Lord Jesus Christ. Which one is it going to be? Even Moses didn't pick the law, not for salvation. Abraham, he didn't pick the law.
Speaker 2:Righteousness was imputed to his account because of his faith, not because of the law, not because of circumcision. No saint of God that we read about Old or New Testament, no saint Was saved by law keeping. Show me proof of anybody In the Bible who was saved by keeping the law and I'll show you saints In the Old Testament especially who broke the law over and over and over again. The spirit Is the source of all true liberty in Christ. It's in the spirit when we get liberty, where we're set free, where we're set free, where we're set free from bondage the bondage of sin, death and Satan, but lawlessness. There's no life in that, but we as Christians and the Spirit of God dwelling in us, we are empowered. We were empowered by God to obey him rightly, to obey him correctly. And therein lies the struggle between the lust of the flesh and being led by the spirit. If you would be led by the spirit, you're free from the law, but if you would be led from the law, the Spirit of God is not in you. And this is what Paul, the case he's making. This is the case he's making with the Galatian church.
Speaker 2:Normally, since we've been in Galatians, I cited Galatians, chapter 2, verse 16, in the beginning of the talk and the study that we've been having together, but I chose today to save it to the very end, because he says here, in verse 16 of chapter 2, which is the heart of the whole book of Galatians and the heart of the gospel of salvation, and he says this knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ. Even we have believed in Christ Jesus. Why? That we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified, no flesh. That being said, I'm going to leave everybody to give their last words for the night. Keep them short. And Evie, my sister, evie, if you would Use that glorious voice of yours and sing something for us Before we close, you'll be the last one. Okay, brother Kev, last word.
Speaker 1:I can't even say nothing. I'm all caught up over here. I'm sorry, I just I don't even know what to. And I'm all caught up over here. I'm sorry, I just I don't even know what to say. I think you said it all. I just need to sit here and just marinate. No, thank you for giving me the opportunity to say something. I'm going to just sit here. I know I didn't heard this many, many, many times, but I needed this. Trust me Well, brother, I times, but I needed this.
Speaker 2:Trust me. Well, brother, I'm glad you're here and once again, I told you before, you are always welcome here, man. I love your contribution and you can fellowship with us anytime you come up. If there's a spot open, you can take it, Sister Mariah last word for tonight.
Speaker 7:Well, let's thank Paul for the correction that if any of us know what the true gospel is, it is death, burial and resurrection. And anyone that believes this and calls on the name of Jesus and confesses with their mouth and believes in their heart, they will be saved and they are freed from that which they were under previously to be judged and their end be damnation. Okay, baby, wait, hold on, and then you can walk in the spirit that you won't fulfill the lust of the flesh. It is a battle and I thank god for it. Like you said, it is evidence that we are saved, because before I was saved, I was planning my next sin, not giving a care to what it was, and and it wasn't until god came and called me out that I started to feel the pressure and the weight of it. So, god bless, it was a wonderful topic and it was well needed, as always, just to keep us in remembrance of what our God has done for us.
Speaker 2:Amen, sister. So good for us, for sure, brother Jeffrey, man of God, last word, brother.
Speaker 8:Jeffrey, man of God. Last word I mean as usual. This is Rich. I'm always awed and humbled by the contributions of my brothers and sisters here and you know how I feel about you. This has just been a wonderful study. I mean, you know, every time I have a talk like this, I feel like my understanding of the word is deeper and that's really what I crave most in life. I mean, the thing is, you know, I try to think of every single way that I can serve the Lord, especially now as I approach. You know, I mean I don't want to get maudlin about it, but you know I've achieved my three score in 10. I'm not guaranteed anymore and you know I'm hoping I'll be around for a long time to bother you. But you know we'll see. Yeah, but you know, this has just been marvelous.
Speaker 8:Everybody's been good. My brother Kev, there, you just amazed me, brother. I just love all you guys. To me it's one big hug fest. If I could get you all in a room, you guys would tell me to quit doing it because I'd be hugging all of you. All right? Well, that's what I got to say.
Speaker 2:All right, brother, appreciate that, sister Lisa last word.
Speaker 5:Oh, I agree with Jeff, we need a hug fest. We have to have this. This has been another such an edifying study. It's so good. I have never felt so joyful to have all the struggles I have. You know what I mean, to have all the struggles I have. You know what I mean. So it's you know how can we sit here with this? I got this big stupid smile on my face Just thinking of the stuff I go through and I am, you know. I'm just going to thank you, lord. I thank you and yeah, this is good. Thank you all and God bless everybody. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:God's word, brother, go ahead. Last word for tonight.
Speaker 6:Last word is I'd rather be considered a heretic by being guided by the spirit and the truth of the finished work on the cross, than to be considered a conformist and bound to the law and any other works that they want to add to it.
Speaker 2:Amen, brother, amen, brother, jeffrey, encourage the servant Last word, and Joni too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's here. She's in the other room, though, listening on her computer. But, jonathan, after the teaching and revelations that we have received tonight, it is a blessing, but there's also a warning. We are now without excuse. We have been given absolute, pure, unadulterated truth. Okay. So the question then becomes, folks, what are we going to do with it? Are we going to use it, or is it just going to sit idly by in our mind? Let's go out tomorrow and put this truth to use and see what God can do with it. Okay, all right. Thank you, jonathan, thank you, panel. You guys are awesome. Good night, everybody.
Speaker 1:You know, I would like to say something about what he just said, because the word of God says that some just take the word and then they kind of like get all happy and you know, but they don't let it sink down and let it become fruitful. So that's why I'm sitting here letting it get in. I want it to get in, I don't want it to leave out. I want it to go all the way in and produce something.
Speaker 2:I want it to marinate. There you go, brother, sister Candy, last word.
Speaker 4:First, can I say this about the tongues? We already know. If we have the Holy Spirit within us, we don't need no jibber-jabber in order to have a conversation or pray to the Father above. Second, I think it's in 2 Corinthians 4, no. 2 Corinthians 14, 39, where he's basically forbidding you to speak in tongues. There's no need in it, 22. 2 Corinthians, chapter 14, is in 12, 13, and 14 is good for you to speak in tongues. So if you don't know, go there so you know.
Speaker 4:Other than that, Psalms 19, 7 says the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Ecclesiastes 12, 13 through 14 says let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God, keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man, for God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or bad or whether it be of evil. James 2 or James 1, 25 says but whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Speaker 4:James 2, 8 says if ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture and his deal. James 2.8 says If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye will do well. And then my last thing has in 2 Corinthians I think it's chapter 1. Oh, I lost my page Chapter 1, verse 12. For our rejoicing is this the testimony of our conscience that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you. And with that being said, y'all, jonathan's going to keep us provoked and verse awake, amen.
Speaker 2:Amen, sister, and I want to say once again, candy, I love your testimony, as, what many people did, I got a lot.
Speaker 4:We'll have to have another one, because there's more to it, man. There's so much more. There's a whole lifetime of it.
Speaker 8:You have a candy. You're not reading your bible while driving your truck, are you?
Speaker 4:well, actually, I'm like sitting here waiting for all this to take place, so that I actually could read my bible before I back into this talk okay, because I was saying you do that, you do that, west virginia, they'll give you a fat ticket well, needless to say, I I do throw it open sometimes.
Speaker 5:now I do I turn my?
Speaker 4:inside light on and I make sure nobody's around me and I make sure I keep it between the lines.
Speaker 8:Just be safe, let the Smokies not get you, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:Amen, I don't need them bears after me, but you know, I'm just the co-pilot. God's my pilot baby.
Speaker 7:Mr them bears after me, but you know.
Speaker 4:I'm just the co-pilot.
Speaker 2:God's my pilot baby. There you go, sister Evie. Thank you, jeff. Give her something, sister, come on now.
Speaker 9:This was such a great live, guys. Thank you so much. Everybody's input was amazing. So my last words are going to be oh Lord, my rock and my redeemer.
Speaker 9:Oh Lord, my rock and my redeemer, greatest treasure of my longing soul, my God, like you, there is no other. True delight is found in you alone. Your grace, a well too deep to fathom. Your love exceeds the heavens. Reach your truth, a fount of perfect wisdom, my highest good and my unending need. Oh Lord, my rock and my redeemer, strong defender of my weary heart, defender of my weary heart, my sword to fight the cruel deceiver and my shield against his hateful darts. My song when enemies surround me, my hope when tides of sorrows rise. My joy when trials are abounding. Your faithfulness, my refuge in the night. Oh Lord, my rock and my redeemer, gracious savior of my ruined life, my guilt and cross lit on your shoulders In my place. You suffered, bled and died. You rose. The grave and death are conquered. You broke the bonds of sin and shame. May all my days bring glory to your name. May all my days bring glory to your name.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, Thank you so much, sister. I love you so much. Evie, you are so special, so special. I thank you that God is letting us benefit from the blessing of your great gift. Sister, I really appreciate it and I tell you I'm going to steal you every time I can to get you to come up here and do that for us, because I love you, I will be honored brother. I love it so you guys that was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Her voice is amazing and you know it's like it just goes to show you you don't need to have no team piece, orchestra and all these people singing, you just have one little voice that she has it. Just, it just reaches to the heaven, it just reaches to heaven. It takes me there. So everyone, with all that being said, be provoked and be persuaded. Amen, god bless you all until tomorrow evening. Everyone, with all that being said, be provoked and be persuaded. Amen, god bless you all until tomorrow evening. And you all have a great night. What's left of it? And we'll get together soon. God bless you.
Speaker 5:God bless, god bless. Good night, everybody Love you, everybody, good night.