The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Lust For Forgiveness (Part 5 of 5)
Forgiveness—it's the heartbeat of our salvation, yet often the most challenging command to obey. This soul-stirring conversation dives deep into the transformative power of forgiveness not as a human achievement, but as God's work through willing vessels.
When we attempt to forgive through our own strength, we inevitably fall short. But when we surrender to God's prompting, true healing begins. As one participant vulnerably shared, "It's not our power that we forgive, it's His, and when He prompts us, we only need to be obedient." This profound truth liberates us from the impossible burden of manufacturing forgiveness through limited human capacity.
The discussion weaves through Romans 12:9-21, exploring the marks of genuine Christian character—particularly the counter-cultural call to "bless those who persecute you" and "overcome evil with good." Most striking is the revelation that many believers struggle to accept complete forgiveness: "The hardest thing for a Christian soul to believe is that they will never stand before God to give an account for any sin." This stunning reality challenges our tendency toward shame and self-condemnation.
While the world drowns itself in distractions—entertainment, consumption, revenge—to maintain superficial joy, believers are called to vigilance. "We need to be surgical when it comes to sin in our lives," one speaker urges, rejecting comfort-focused spirituality for the transformative work of God's truth. Marriage emerges as a powerful example of this sanctifying process, described as "sacrificial love like no other. It is the Father's love that He has for us."
Whether you're struggling to forgive someone who's wounded you deeply or battling to accept God's complete forgiveness in your own life, this conversation offers both challenge and comfort. Remember, as Jesus taught Peter, we're called to forgive not just seven times, but "seventy times seven"—reflecting the boundless mercy we've received from our Heavenly Father.
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book is about the Lord, but he just reminded me in listening to Meg that it's not our power that we forgive, it's his, and when he prompts us, we only need to be obedient. And I just I felt it and it's so amazing. So it's just to encourage anyone who's struggling. Give this to the Lord, because he does it Like he really does it. It's an amazing thing and just hopefully that encourages someone who may be struggling with that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for that, sister. Sister Maria, you're new here, sister. Sister, I want to give you the opportunity to speak If you would like to. I appreciate you being here, so I want to give you a chance to speak.
Speaker 3:Hi, thank you for inviting me up. I'm usually shy being on these panels.
Speaker 2:Don't be shy.
Speaker 3:I'm Maria. I'm from New York, bronx, new York. I'm with that 37,. Bronx, new York and I'm a 37-year-old single mom and I love coming into your room. I love everybody's talks and everybody's testimony and everybody reading the Word, because I love God and it just fulfills my heart. But while listening to everybody, I have a topical Bible. I have many Bibles. I was led to Romans 12. Sorry, 9 through 21 about marks of the true Christian.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I want to know if I could read that. Read it. Go ahead my translation. And I want to know if I could read that. Go ahead, sister, you read it. My translation is in ESV.
Speaker 3:Let's love wait, sorry. Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil. Hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
Speaker 3:Do not be slothful in zeal. Be fervent in spirit. Serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope. Be patient in tribulation. Be constant in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality. Bless those who persecute you. Bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice Weak, with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all, if possible, so far as it depends on you. Live peaceably with all Beloved. Never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God. For it is written vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink, for by so doing, you will help burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that that is where the Holy Spirit led me to share in your group.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad you did and I hope you will continue to hang around, listen to us and listen with us and hang out and chime in whenever you can, okay.
Speaker 3:Yes, I will Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:TNA, tna H310. I don't know how to say that, but I'm sure there's some meaning behind that. But, sister, if you would like to share something, feel free to jump in, if you're okay with that.
Speaker 5:Hi everybody. I'm also shy to speak on here, so I just love to listen to everybody speak, because you guys have so much wisdom and knowledge that I'm hopefully one day to get there. As far as his word, I'm blessed to have met Sister Candy. She's been a blessing in my life.
Speaker 2:Mine too.
Speaker 5:Yes, so yeah, ever since I've. I think one day I'll be able to share my testimony, but it's a lot Just my walk with God and how I'm trying to just live a righteous life right now.
Speaker 2:so good sister, we'll talk about that. I don't want to embarrass you at all. So you take your time and hopefully you'll keep coming back and and and then, uh, and, if you're, if you're ever willing, I would love to have you to entertain you, to have you do your, your testimony on here whenever you're ready, okay that sounds good. All right, sister Brother Michael, go ahead, and then Candy.
Speaker 4:First, sorry Maria for the outburst, but now everyone knows when I hear something good, I yell behind a muted mic, so I get excited when I hear something. But I'm going to affirm your Romans 12, because that was actually one of the chapters I was going to bring up it's. It's one of my favorites. But at the same time, and on that note, I'm going to bring in ephesians, where it talks about we don't fight against the flesh, we fight against principalities and so forth. And I'm bringing in isaiah, where no weapon formed against us shall succeed. Not just prosper, but succeed is a better way of saying that. And so we've got to think about this Anytime someone's coming at us, and I'll bring in a little bit of 1 Samuel on this.
Speaker 4:We're the target, of course, we're the physical target, but their biggest target is they're rejecting God. They're going after God and what he says to treat each other like. And so in Samuel, samuel's telling the people of Israel you know, you don't want a king, why are you doing this? I'm a judge, this is how we're going to do things. And they were kind of rebelling against Samuel and he couldn't understand the kind of thing. And God told him they're not coming. It's not personal, it's not against you. They're rejecting me.
Speaker 4:And so that's what's happening with all these one. All the unbelievers reject them daily. We just happen to be the target because we represent him, and so remember that. But remember nothing that they throw at us will ever succeed, and it's because of what Maria read in Romans 12. Because it's all a principality and we know who the victor is. And so this is the confidence we can have in the one who started a good work in us and will complete it. We can have this confidence and we can have this peace that we are going to be targets a lot of times, and people are going to do things towards us, and sometimes they may not know it, sometimes they will know it, but this is where we know it will not succeed. So let's be like Christ and forgive.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen, brother, sister Candy, go ahead.
Speaker 6:I got three scriptures in there I actually just got three this time, but Isaiah 43, he says in verse 25, this time. But in Isaiah 43 he says in verse 25 I, even I, he am he that blotteth out of thy transgressions for my own sake and will not remember thy sins. So put in remembrance, lead us together, declare thou that thou mayest be justified. Then in Mark 2, 7, he says the questions asked why doth this man, this, speak? Blasphemies who can forgive sins, but god only so if god's in us. That's the only way we're going to be able to do it. Then if you go to first john, chapter 2, verse 12, he says I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. So even he forgives us for his name's sake. We are to forgive for his name's sake as well.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 6:Just beautiful.
Speaker 2:You know, the thing is, if you really want to glorify God, become an expert at forgiveness. If you want to glorify God, learn how to be forgiving, because this is the essence of our. This is at the root of our relationship with Him. It's at the root of it Forgiveness. Forgiveness, receiving a pardon and with that pardon becoming adopted and with that adoption, becoming separated from the world and with that separation from the world, having a hope and an expectation of eternal life to come, and the expectation of our Lord and Savior to come for us. This chain has so many links in it. It's almost infinite In terms of what we can see, in terms of the goodness of God and what he does to bring us home to him this salvation that we have. It may seem like to us that it's about us, but it's not. It's about him. It's about him. Our salvation is about him, and it's a glorious thing, and he doesn't give us any reason why, other than the fact that it was his will, it was his pleasure to do so, and so the thing about it is all we have to do is rest in that understanding that what he has done, he did in us, he did for his own glory. And he's the only one that can do this, because he cannot lie. He's the only one that can say these things that he says because it is a purity of absolute truth. He's forgiven us Christians.
Speaker 2:The hardest thing for us to believe, the hardest thing for a Christian soul To believe, is that they will never stand Before God To give an account for any sin. This is difficult to believe, believing this, believing this, believing this, believing this is unbelievable that he would forgive us and that we are expected to believe and trust that we will not be ever again held accountable before the triune God, the tribunal of God, for any sin Ever. And I know that we all worry and we struggle, we struggle and we have problems With sin and habits and these things that we find ourselves Succumbing to so often. And it annoys us that we find ourselves succumbing to so often and it annoys us, it plagues the mind, it frustrates the heart, it upsets the soul, it antagonizes the spirit of God that lives within us. But let me tell you, if you were not saved, none of those things that I just described would be happening. These things only happen with believers. They don't happen with the wicked. They don't care, they are. They don't happen with the wicked. They don't care. Their minds are saturated with bliss and merriment. They take pleasure in the world, they inoculate themselves by worldly pleasures, they satisfy and overfill their appetites and they are never full. Never full. They're never concerned, they don't feel guilt, they don't feel scarred, they don't feel cut to the quick. They can't because they're incapable.
Speaker 2:You think so many Christians out there, these people that are always talking about escaping a quote unquote, so-called tribulation period. I don't know what they're talking about, cause I'm going through tribulation every day. I have no idea what they're talking about. I know I'm saved. I know it 100%, saved 100%. And I also know that daily, in varying degrees, I am going through tribulation. I know I'm being afflicted. I know that I'm undergoing a spiritual persecution and I also know that every one of you are partakers of the very same thing I'm talking about. I know it.
Speaker 2:So what is this foolishness about? Tribulation in the future? What is this? People drown themselves. The wicked are constantly keeping their wicked joy moving. I'll tell you some of the ways they do it. I mentioned merriment. You know the scripture talks about. You know when the Lord comes, there will be, you know, marrying and giving in marriage and there'll be just having a time of merriment. But the world actually drowned itself in music, for example, for example, in feasting, eating, consuming, in laughter. Everything is funny, everything is a joke. We are very unserious people and people like to say well, god wants me to have all this, he wants me to eat. Well, he wants me to be rich and healthy and wealthy, he wants me to enjoy.
Speaker 7:There's nothing wrong with this.
Speaker 2:This is what they say Fleshly solace Creature comforts. We got our homes and our couches, our stereo systems and our saunas and jacuzzis, and the patios, the outdoor patios, and the ceiling fans, and the warm, thick towels that dry ourselves off when we get out of the showers. This is all these things. This is what keeps people going and keep them distracted from holiness and from recognizing the sinfulness of sin. And you want to know, you want to know, you want to know One of the things that give people so much gratification, that keeps perpetuating the wicked joy that the world has Revenge, revenge, revenge. Seeing people we don't like fall, seeing their downfall, hoping for and celebrating their collapse. This is the kind of world we live in today. But what we need to remind people is that our Lord, he's coming back, and when he comes back, it won't be a day like when he came before, preaching peace. When he comes back this time he's going to be a God who's returning here to exact revenge, a God of wrath for those who refuse to call upon his name, for those who refuse to call upon his name, for those who refuse to look at that great old, rugged cross where the nails penetrated his body and his blood dripped off that piece of wood tree down to the ground where sinners are to wash them.
Speaker 2:We spend our times listening to all this soft, weak, impotent, anemic preaching Because our ears are itching. We don't want to hear what hurts. Every message, every sermon should open wounds in your soul. Every message, every sermon should open wounds in your soul. And every sermon that wounds and opens up your soul before it's over it should bring that balm of Gilead and patch you up and heal you and make you ready for the next day, the next hour, the next minute, the next week, year, whatever it may be. But believers, my brothers and sisters in Christ, we need to be serious about the God that we serve and worship, because all this that we're talking about, it's not a game. It's not a game.
Speaker 2:All this stuff and turmoil that's going on in the world is temporary. We are watching the Antichrist have his way, the beast have his way, mystery Babylon having her day, the whore that sits upon seven mountains. They tell you that the mark of the beast is in the future, not knowing that they're receiving the mark of the beast right now. They tell you that the kingdom of God is in the future. When we're in the kingdom of God right now, they tell you that tribulation is coming in the future. When we're in the kingdom of God right now, they tell you that tribulation is coming in the future. When we're in tribulation right now, challenge me on these things. Prove me wrong and when you do so, educate me all of us.
Speaker 2:But I don't think I am, and I want all of you to be persuaded that today is a day where we need to be watchmen, we need to be vigilant, we need to be studious when it comes to the word of God. We need to be surgical when it comes to sin in our lives. Get rid of the jokes and the jesting and the foolishness and the mirth On this earth. This is only but for a moment. But guess what? Joy comes in the morning. Joy comes in the morning, evie. I hope you're ready, sister, because you know what I'm going to ask you to do.
Speaker 8:Already. I even looked for a song I so hyped. Today you don't even know, talking about brother being crying. Like like this is. We have to feel this because this is so real, it's, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2:So I'm so ready to let me know, because I'm ready. All right, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna let meg get her last thing she wants to say here, and then, when she does, I want you to go with it, meg I mean Evie, and we'll finish with that. So, sister Meg, go ahead.
Speaker 7:Well, you weren't the only one who got into a fight with her spouse tonight. I just want to tell you that. So, but you know, after, after that little pop-off was over, I sat down and I was like you know, I was like we have watched so many people fall away. And I mean, we've been married, we've been together 22 years and I'm going to tell you something If a marriage doesn't sanctify you and show you the love of God, I don't know what does. When you're the one suffering and the other one's healing, or when they're the one suffering and you're the one healing, it's, it's literally sacrificial love, and it's a sacrificial love like no other. It is the father's love that he has for us. And I couldn't.
Speaker 7:I sit here and think while you were just talking and I was like you know, as believers, I don't even think, we even realize how protected we are by the Lord Jesus Christ. Living in today's world, we have no idea what he has protected us from, and I sit in amazement and I tell the Lord thank you. All the time I'm like you know my number one prayer, and it is short, but I mean it with all my heart. I always tell the Lord I say thank you, father, for protecting me and loving me, even when I don't protect and love myself. Like thank you.
Speaker 7:Like this, this hedge of protection that we have over us is like nothing we've ever seen or known or will ever know living in this world. And he has his hand and he loves his children Like he truly loves us y'all. And I am overwhelming. If I think about it too much, I'm going to be crying all over this place again, but it is. It is that powerful. He loves us, he. We are his children. Like I just can't. Even the love of god is the most beautiful thing that we can ever experience and how blessed we are that he came for us. And I can't even our salvation. Even when you understand, like when you were reading these verses today, we don't really realize the body of Christ, doesn't really realize how dead they really were, how we all were, we were. This world without the lord jesus christ is a walking cemetery. Do you hear me?
Speaker 7:yep, yep it literally is, and and when you said, if the lord jesus christ, if we were put in hell right after adam and Eve, he would have been just in doing so. I mean, god loves us y'all. We are his children and we are going to be in heaven one day. Aren't you guys excited about that?
Speaker 2:As long as I don't lift the door to you.
Speaker 7:No, I already told him that we're going to be on the street. Holy, holy, holy street avenue Me and you. Brother Jonathan already told him that you're we're going to be on the strength. Holy, holy, holy street avenue me and you, we're gonna, we're gonna be neighbors. I hope I'm neighbors with all y'all. I don't want a mansion by myself. I told the lord. Lord, I know you said you're going to prepare a place for us. I don't want a place by myself. I want all my brothers and sisters right there with me every day.
Speaker 2:All right, that's all right. Sister, I love you to death, girl, I really do I love y'all too More than y'all know.
Speaker 7:Trust me.
Speaker 2:I love you to death, evie. Come on now, give her something, sister, and after she gets done, we will finish up right there, because you know, nathan said he's going to sing at Jonathan's window.
Speaker 7:That's funny.
Speaker 8:Alright, Evie, let's have it sister, this is what you do. It's a reminder of where we were before Christ guys. So I mean it's late, Me, me, me, but I'm gonna work it out. I was buried beneath my rebellion, Lost without hope of redemption blind to my need for a savior.
Speaker 8:Oh but God, crushed by the weight of my failures and living the lie I created and live in the lie I've created, digging my grave without knowing, oh but God, rich in mercy, how you loved me too much to let me stay lost and my salvation sent from heaven, ning my sin to a cross over God. You gave me a truth worth believing and I traded my chains for your freedom, because you were the one that I needed over.
Speaker 8:God Resurrected my heart from the ruins, ruins, and my rescue came through like the morning. Now this is my true testimony. Oh but God. Oh but God, rich in mercy, how you love me too much to let me stay lost. And my salvation sent from heaven. Now that wreckage of my choices you have turned to life from ashes, lifted from death and risen with him. Now I stand in my confidence, rich in mercy, how you love me too much to let me stay lost. My salvation sent from heaven, nailing my sins to a cross. Oh but God, wow.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, sister Evie. I really appreciate you, sister. I really really do. You have no idea. Whenever I see you show up in the chat or whatever to come on up, I'm like I'm going to use her tonight. I know I'm going to use her.
Speaker 8:The song that really connects with what we're talking about, because there's so many beautiful solid songs that people don't know. You know what I'm saying. I bring them out and they're like did you write that? I'm like girl, I wish I would have wrote that, but they're solid. I don't listen to any of these other craziness, like I will root. I would find where they're from and what. Seriously, because you know even the songs that I sing. When people look them up, I want them to be solid.
Speaker 2:Right. So let me close with this. I'm not going to close with my usual be provoked to be persuaded, but I'm going to close with the words in Matthew 18 that Brother J brought up. And for those of you who don't know Brother Jay, give him a follow and show him a little bit of love, just so he can share some things with us and whatever. I think it's important for us to be able to kind of like bond with each other wherever we can, however we can. But I'm going to close with this with the text from Matthew 18 that he gave us.
Speaker 2:Then came Peter to him and said Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me? And I forgive him? Till seven times. The Lord Jesus said to him I say unto you until seven times, but until 70 times seven. With that, be provoked and persuaded. God bless you all and I'm looking forward to the next time we get to convene together, which I hope will be tomorrow night. But in the meantime, god bless you all and thank you for your generous ears and attention. I appreciate all of you and I tell you I love you. I really really do, and I appreciate everyone's contribution to this conference, these studies that we have and the fellowship that we have together. Have a good night.
Speaker 7:Good night, all Good night, Love y'all. We love you too.
Speaker 1:Brother Jonathan.
Speaker 7:God bless.
Speaker 3:Love y'all. No-transcript.