The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Idolatry & Sorcery (PART 2 of 5)
What do we give to idols that rightfully belongs to God alone? This profound question serves as the catalyst for a deep exploration into modern idolatry and its subtle infiltration into Christian lives.
At its core, idolatry isn't just about worshiping statues or images—it's about misallocating what God deserves exclusively. Our dependence, affection, time, faith, worship, and obedience all belong to God, yet we frequently redirect these elements to other sources. As the conversation unfolds, we discover that dependence may be the most significant aspect of our relationship with God that idolatry corrupts. When we divide our dependence between God and anything else—whether relationships, careers, entertainment, or even religious activities—we've created an idol.
Perhaps most revealing is what we choose to evangelize most passionately in our daily lives. Many believers who hesitate to share the gospel will fearlessly and frequently proclaim the virtues of their favorite sports teams, political figures, or entertainment franchises. This contrast exposes where our true worship priorities lie. As one participant powerfully states, "Your idol is what you evangelize."
The discussion takes a particularly challenging turn when examining political idolatry among Christians. When political affiliations supersede spiritual identity and fracture fellowship with other believers, we've allowed a powerful idol to take root. No political party deserves the devotion that belongs to Christ alone.
Through references to Ezekiel 14 and Matthew 6:33, we're reminded that God takes "idols of the heart" seriously and calls us to seek His kingdom first. The remedy begins with honest self-assessment: What occupies your thoughts? Where do you invest your time? What dominates your conversations? The answers often reveal the hidden idols that have established footholds in our lives.
Join us for this thought-provoking conversation that challenges each listener to examine their own heart and realign their worship, dependence, and affection solely toward the One who deserves it all.
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is we owe the lord what we owe god, what he consider what he expects of us. And then my question is with that in, with that in the back of your mind, my question is this what, then, does idolatry ask us to do? In other words, what is it that idolatry is causing us to do, which makes it idolatrous? Sister Mariah, what do you think?
Speaker 3:I'm in a loud area. I don't want to.
Speaker 1:I'll come back to you, sister Meg, keeping in mind what God expects of us. What does that mean that we would be offering up To idolatry? Alright, she's not there either, brother Jeff, man of God, go ahead. Mean that we would be offering up to idolatry? All right, she's not there either, brother Jeff, man of God, go ahead. What do you think?
Speaker 4:I'm here. My dogs were just barking, all right. Go ahead. So could you kind of?
Speaker 1:reframe the question. All right, Keeping in mind what God expects of his believers. What does that tell you?
Speaker 3:men are offering up to their idols.
Speaker 1:Their faith, faith Okay.
Speaker 4:Anything else.
Speaker 1:Their time, their time.
Speaker 4:Faith and their time. Their faith and their time, their worship.
Speaker 6:I didn't want to say that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go around and ask a few other people. Brother Jeffrey, man of God, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, we owe God everything, all of our mind, body, soul and spirit and strength. Second of all, what popped into my head is that, you know, we, as the bride of Christ, are married to our Lord God. Any affection we give to an idol is taking away from that. It'd be like a husband having a good relationship with his wife and then going out and do kissy-kissy with some female. It's basically giving away affection that only belongs to your husband.
Speaker 1:I like that one, I like that one. So let's keep it straight. So, one of the things that we're talking about, like, meg mentioned faith and worship, but, and you mentioned affection, this is a big one. Affection, this is. This is a big thing, because affection is what we give idols. What else do we give idols, lisa? What else do we give an item that only that should only be given to god?
Speaker 2:oh well, I was gonna say love at first, but that's sort of affection, um let's see, well, we, we should love him as he loves us, and when we place anything, when we put anything before him, it takes away from that.
Speaker 1:See. So let me ask this again, because I want to make sure people understand what I'm asking. There are things that we are, that we owe God, that he demands of us, and so really, the answer to this question Is easy when you understand what we're supposed to give to God. So and I'm saying this because I think maybe I'm having a problem framing the question right so what I'm saying is God expects things of us. Idolatry is giving to the idol what belongs to God. So what are we giving to the idol that only god should have?
Speaker 2:so let me start all over again lisa, lisa, lisa, go ahead I was. We need to give up ourselves or we need to die to ourself and be with him, and when we are putting some you know something again in front of him, we're not, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, uh, mariah, go ahead, you're ready.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say worship, honor, glory, praise, all those things. Like it says, you worship the creation rather than the creator himself all right, christina, go ahead.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4:um, I think that he wants us to put him first. Um, you know, because from what I see, when we wake up, usually um, first thing we probably reach out for is our phone, you know, checking on other things. That is not as important as he is.
Speaker 1:When you check on your phone, like how would you equate that to what we're not giving to God, just for an example? I like that, so I want to hear what you have to say about that.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry repeat the question.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned the phone.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:So what aspect of what you do with a phone would be the counterpart to what we should be giving to God? What are you doing with that phone that you're replacing with regard to your, your worship for god, the true god?
Speaker 4:um, there's just so many things that we seek on social media or you know just anything to do with, I think, questions that we were asking ourselves, or that we don't feel fulfillment, I guess, and we go to all these things to look for the answers instead of him. That we should be doing every day. But I also think, like obedience is one.
Speaker 1:Obedience.
Speaker 4:Yes, to have integrity to his laws, really.
Speaker 1:All right, Because everybody's giving me. So I got down to obedience. Brother Greg, what do you say?
Speaker 6:Thank you, tina, for that. Well, this might take a second. So I think the idea is that what we owe God is our willingness to please him and whatever he asks, right, in other words, like he becomes. Like if we picture our lives as a wheel, there's a hub in the center and that's God, and all the spokes that come off of it could be your family, your career, you know your record, what you know.
Speaker 6:God is at the center, he holds it all together, all right. And and so you, you, you organize your life around him, right, you prioritize. You prioritize him over the other things. When something else goes into the hub, right, whether it's your family, your career even you know noble things or if it's like you know, let's say, an addiction, whatever kind of addiction you know drugs, liquor, sex, whatever right, then what you do is you will prioritize your life around that addiction, right, you will do whatever it demands of you. You know what I mean. So when God's the center of it, you do whatever he requires, and everyone's going to be led differently because we all have different callings and gifts and so on, but the point is, you know he determines the priorities of everything else right if that makes sense.
Speaker 6:I don't know make total sense.
Speaker 1:Make total sense. So when we look at and I think this was an important one because this deals directly with our relationship with the lord um brother, jeff. Go ahead before I go ahead.
Speaker 3:Trust me between the eyes. You know, I was thinking you know how, during the day I mean, I read devotions, I listen to podcasts talking about the Lord, read the Bible and all that and it just occurred to me that am I doing all that and how much time am I actually spend meditating and talking to the Lord? In other words, you know, somebody in the comments said that your religion can become idolatrous and I was thinking, you know, it's not intentional, but I have to really ask myself that's a good point, you know, am I just?
Speaker 3:you know, I'd like to say no, but it troubles me enough that I want to meditate on it a little bit, Right? I mean, you know, I grab from my phone too, but usually I at least say hello to God before I do it. But the thing is, but the thing is just hit me. I was just thinking you know, yeah, I'm into all this stuff, but do I have? You know, are there times I feel the need to pray and I just lay everything down and stop what I'm doing to do it, or I've got to, I've got to read this, I got to do that, Got to do that, and I'm thinking I, I gotta you know that I, I'm admonishing myself about that now.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely Candy. Go ahead Before I go on Candy go ahead.
Speaker 7:Before I go on. So I say your heart, mind and your body, mind and soul. Ok, but I also found in Ezekiel 14. Verse two says and the Lord came to me saying Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I myself be inquired of at all by them? Therefore, speak to them and say to them thus said the lord, every one of the house of israel who sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity.
Speaker 7:I'm going to jump down to verse six, where he says therefore to the house of Israel thus says the Lord God, repent, turn away from your idols and turn your faces away from all the abominations. For anyone of the house of Israel, of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates them himself from me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me. I, the Lord, will answer him by myself. I will set my face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.
Speaker 1:I think the key of what you really can do is when it says in his heart which is what Kelly brought up.
Speaker 7:Yeah, that's why I was like, because we give when we go to do. He wants all of us, every bit of us. But most importantly, what does he come into our lives and transform our hearts and our minds? What did he put his commandments into our hearts and our minds? So that's the number one thing that we know that he says in Scripture, especially in the New Testament, in scripture, especially in the New Testament. But then when we start looking at this part of it and we go back and he tells us exactly what it is.
Speaker 1:So what you end up having, candy, can you mute? There you go, because yours echoes for some reason with me. So I'll put together a little short list and everything I'm going to say is going to touch across what everybody has already said. But one of the things that's, that's that's ultimate in this whole situation of idolatry is it is what we owe God that we also give to. That we give to idols is dependence. You know an idol is an idol when you depend on it. You know an idol is an idol when you depend on it.
Speaker 1:Now, this is a big thing, because so many people they allocate portions of their dependence or they ask for their dependence on other things that are not God. But as a Christian, we owe him and him only our complete, unfettered dependence. You depend on anything in addition to god? If you give him 60 dependence and you share that with other, with other things other, it is not dependent. We depend on him for everything. We depend on god for all things, everything.
Speaker 1:Dependence. What else do we give to? What else do we give to other things or other people that we, or other experiences that we take away from God, our wills, our wills, our desires? It controls idols control our wills. They elicit from us a direction that goes in its way, or her way or his way, whatever way of this idol. But one of the things that we owe God is submission to him. That means giving our will over to him. That means giving our will over to him, not share it with an idol, because when you share what we owe God between God and another idol, you just made two idols and neither one of them is God.
Speaker 5:Brother Jeffrey, you were going to say something. Jonathan, I just wanted to say that one of the things I have noticed that an idol steals from your life, that's just so vitally important that you can't get back. And that's your time, I mean once that time that you've given to that idol is gone, you can't get it back. I mean, yes, you can repent from it, sure, be forgiven of it absolutely, but you can't get that time back. So I have to be careful. How much time do I spend on the phone? How much time do I watch television? How much time do I devote watching football on TV, that sort of thing? And be careful, because if I give those things too much time, they can quietly, subtly, become an idol. Right, we have to be careful.
Speaker 1:All right. So here's something else. Here's something else. How about studying? In other words, what we take time to learn above, learning about God, learning about him, studying to show yourself approved by God, what so? So when you look at your academic life, I don't mean collegiate academic, I mean your, your academic approaches toward knowing your Lord that you serve, toward knowing your Lord that you serve. You know, I could easily see how the academic approaches that I take toward my study. Someone could look at me and go I think he worships his study. I think he worships academic. I could see that somebody making that claim. But we have to know our own hearts. But the thing is, when it comes to study, what?
Speaker 1:What do you spend most of your time learning and trying to be to master? Is it the 4 000 uh ai programs? Is it the 4 000 uh uh? What do you call those coin based things, those coins or whatever? That bitcoin stuff? All that people. They will spend time learning, studying everything. There are people who who brag about well, I saw 300 movies this year and I can tell you all about all of them make recommendations. They give time. Learning about these things and studying the word of God is a chore. It's a chore. What do you spend more time learning about Something to be considered here? Sister Candy, go ahead, and then Greg something to be considered here.
Speaker 7:Sister Candy, go ahead. And then Greg, I guess I'm kind of going to hit on two things since you brought that up. I like that dependent part when you said that, because I myself at one point in time always was like I'm independent, not that I worshiped myself, but I worshiped the fact that I didn't depend on nobody for anything because I could do everything right. But even though it was like I knew God was the reason I could do those things and I was independent. But then I guess a while back now it's like I am independent, but I'm only independent because I depend on God, who allows me to be that independent, because I'm dependent on him to be able to do it all. So kind of hitting both of them.
Speaker 7:But I liked how you said that. I liked that really a lot. And the studying part. I can relate with that too, because where I used to play, like I was telling you that night I was doing my life, I used to play the game all the time to kill time while I was working or whatever I was doing, and the Holy Spirit said, I mean, he said to me he was like what, if you put all that time you spent on that game into God's word.
Speaker 5:Absolutely.
Speaker 7:And then that's what I quit playing the game and started getting into the word. And, man, I'm telling you, he knows how to talk to us. He knows how to get us where he wants us when he wants us. It's his time.
Speaker 1:That's right, brother, greg, go ahead, that's right brother Greg, go ahead.
Speaker 6:I was just thinking about the irony of, you know, giving your dependence to the idol. Right, but what is, you know the bible? When it describes idols, it says eyes they have, but they don't see. They have ears, but they can't hear. Mouths, but they can, can't speak. So the irony is the thing you're giving your dependents to is incapable of delivering the thing you're depending on it for. That's right. You can't do it.
Speaker 1:It's true. It's true, and you know, whatever you give your dependents to is your biggest distraction, because what happens is people manufacture a reason for these inordinate dependencies. These things, like Brother Greg just said, they don't give you anything, they don't satisfy anything, they don't scratch any itches. Whatever it is within you, there's something you know, and everybody for everyone is different. It's different, but the reality is dependence is probably the number one thing that we take away from God when we worship an idol, because whatever it is that we depend on more than God, that is our idol. That is one way of knowing what your idol is. Somebody made a good point here, and it's funny, a brother here, johnny, it's almost like he's reading my own notes, but one of the things that I put down on my notes is preaching and and and proclaiming, and he said I forgot the word he used. Johnny, if you can type what you, what you wrote up again, I like to see it, because it's already passed by, but it's an excellent comment, because what it is is Whatever it is you worship the most. That's what you evangelize the most. See, your idol is what you evangelize.
Speaker 1:What do you talk about most aggressively, most fearlessly? And when I say fearlessly, you need to understand what I'm saying, Because there are many of you Believers who will refrain From sharing the word of God At the due season Because you are afraid Of backlash. Well, I'm at work. I can't talk about religion or politics at work, or we at a party. I don't want about religion or politics at work, or we had a party. I don't want to disrupt the party by talking about the Lord Jesus or this or that, whatever it is. But you can go to that job, to that party, whatever it is, and you can talk about everything under the sun, but you won't talk about the Lord Jesus Christ in due season. But you will talk about your idol, without regard for any season, because every moment in your life is the season for you to talk about that nonsense. All you have to do is watch what happens on this platform here.
Speaker 1:When something is what they call trending, that's all people talk about, but the gospel has never stopped trending. Never. The glory of the Lord Jesus Christ will never stop trending. Never the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ will never stop trending. You might stop being down with him using street terms, but he will never stop trending. You will be gone. I will be gone. His gospel will continue. They tried to burn Bibles, they tried to burn Christians. They tried to get rid of everything religious. There's an element of people doing that today.
Speaker 5:But they'll never get away with it.
Speaker 1:But evangelizing. You want to know what your idol is. What do you talk about the most? What do you talk about the most? Think about it. It's different for everybody, but when you consider the reluctance that so many believers have when it comes to sharing the gospel to people who are going to perish, and you refuse to step in and speak up or you refuse to take your post as a proclaimer of the gospel, which is what all of us are supposed to be doing, every single one of us, no Christian, is exempt from proclaiming the Lord until he comes. Not one of us, not one woman, man, child, not one of us, not one woman, man, child. If you are a believer it is one of the first orders of business is to speak to the things of God, to this dark world. So preaching that's what you evangelize. People evangelize their idols.
Speaker 1:I watch these people that I've grown up with and we've all seen it. When it comes to sports and entertainment, these people can tell you the stats of every player in the league. They can tell you the stats of every boxer. They can tell you the stats of every hockey. They can tell you the stats of every hockey player and the wins and the losses and who won the last trophies, and all this stuff. All this stuff and all these people most of them, a lot of them, many of them Christians. You ask them what resurrection means. They don't know, but they can give you stats from 27, 30 teams in the football league and tell you everything. They can tell you who the GOAT is in every sport and, oddly enough, they use goat, the very animal that God uses, to reference people who he rejects. Think about that one for a second.
Speaker 7:You got people who want to be goats and you got people who worship and celebrate the goats it's funny you said that, jonathan, because have you seen the, the new one that they're putting out for the christians? The goat no over all things. That's what goat stands for now.
Speaker 1:What does the G mean?
Speaker 7:God over all things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, people do all this stuff with God. They like to make things they can put on bracelets and t-shirts and hats and stuff. It kind of annoys me to some degree.
Speaker 7:I thought it was offensive myself because of what he does with the goats and how he uses them in the Bible.
Speaker 1:I see what you're saying, I see where you're coming from. It's like people have their charms and these things, but you see where I'm going with this and that's a good one. I haven't seen that yet, brother Jeff man.
Speaker 3:I gotta go ahead, forgot what I was going to say. Well, you know you're right, and, and the thing is, you know it's just my the thought popped in my head. You know, the preacher said vanity of vanities, it's all vanity. And you know it's chasing after the wind. And you know it's chasing after the wind and you know vanity means worthlessness. But vanity is really important because, you know, you ever talk to somebody who's a real sports nut that quotes all those things. I mean they're proud of that boy, they know all that stuff. You know I can't say I mean I like football but I missed the Bengals game yesterday because I just didn't think about it. You know, and you know it's like, and I follow my college team and everything, but I mean it's like if I missed it I wouldn't cry about it. I mean I'm not saying I'm better, I'm saying I'm old, right and when, and and the thing is one thing I've learned is it just nothing much matters else anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, when you, when you, when you think about, when you really think about what is truly an idol. It's all these things that we discussed, but ultimately it is enslavement to vanity.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Some of you said read Matthew 6, 33. I'll quote it for you Seek you first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. That's Matthew 6.33.
Speaker 1:That's right. But see what, man? What the anti-Christian system of this world has gotten men to do is to rationalize all these idols. You know, because here's the thing when people worship idols, they don't. They don't. They themselves don't necessarily recognize them as idols. I've never heard a single person go I worship idols. This is something that a Christian believer is supposed to recognize. Only they can recognize idols. Think about that for a second.
Speaker 1:The unbeliever who worships his or her idol. They don't look at it as an idol To them. It's what they depend on, it's what they proclaim, it's what they evangelize to other people. Oh man, you got to go watch these movies, you got to go watch this movie, or you got to go follow this team, or you got to go and do this. And people, they tell you everything about it, they preach about it. Ask yourself what you preach about more than Christ? Don't tell me. Ask yourself, is there anything in your life that you preach about more than Christ, including your kid?
Speaker 1:I always tease my mother because she has her first great great grandchild and that little baby I call her super baby because my mother thinks she can do everything. Oh, she's so alert. Oh, she's so smart. Oh, she sees everything. Oh, she was walking before she was born. It's like that's how my mother, that's how grandparents are. Every grandchild is like a super child. They can do everything and they're showing you their IQ was above 700 before they get out of the crib.
Speaker 1:But people can worship their children. Like Jeffrey said, you can worship your spouse. Worship their children. Like Jeffrey said, you can worship your spouse. You can worship your job. People worship money.
Speaker 1:Some of you guys are going to like this, but I'm going to tell you anyway. Some of you are sick and obsessed with worshiping politics. It's going to destroy your soul. All this political nonsense is insane and we've all been touched by it. We've all been touched by it. But let me tell you what the let me tell you what happens, because, because they are telling you people are you know all sides of these political spectrum and things. They're telling you what to believe, who you you should like, who you shouldn't like, what's beneficial, what's not beneficial. You know it goes on and on.
Speaker 1:I don't even want to waste my time with it, but I guarantee you there's at least one person listening, not just on the panel, but just listening in general, where this obsession with worldly politics has become so out of control and so inordinate that people Christians will rip another Christian spine out because they disagree on some silly politician's view or a political party. No Christian should be this concerned about Republicans and Democrats or whatever else is going on in America. This is not our world. We were told to leave this world, to not be of this world and to expect another one, because this one provides nothing, and I know everyone here knows exactly what I'm talking about. On all these things, trump, biden, whoever. To the christian, that should not matter at all. What matters to us is christ alone, christ alone. And the thing about it is because, listen, if I went to the extremes about this whole thing, about how silly this is, people probably would never come back. But that's alright, because he is the only one I serve. I don't care about Republican politicians or Democrat politicians. None of these people do anything for me. The only one who does it for me is Christ and him alone.
Speaker 1:Some of you worship these politicians and, just like I said, you don't think it's worship, but it is, and you can have a good idea that what you're worshiping in these politics Is worship, because People will be afraid to even talk to you about it. That's how you know. Some of you are being self-owned and self-radicalized, and then many of you want to associate it so that you can rationalize it to Christianity. None of these parties in America, or any party in any other political government, none of them are Christian. None of them.
Speaker 1:But you guys, so many people, will fall on the sword for this stupidity. It's an idol. I'm telling you. It's an idol. I know how many people talk about this, but you're going to see that if you continue down this road, insisting on this, and especially Let me tell you something Especially if you are allowing politics To get between your Christian relationships, you are a fool. I can't put it any other way. It's foolish and it shouldn't happen. And it's crazy the way so many Christians will make comments to other Christians with this assumption built in that you are on their side of this issue or that issue, as if the perspective is how could they not be? They're Christians.
Speaker 1:But that is emblematic of idolatry. Be careful what it is you embrace that is outside of what we read in this beautiful book that we call the scriptures, the word of God. The last thing I'll say about this, this idolatry thing, and I'll move on to witchcraft and sorcery is denial of self. Somebody said it earlier. Somebody said it earlier sacrificing, sacrificing um of self. Okay, blazing rose says to me you yourself make political comments, you're not free from it. I said I was touched by it as well, sister. I said that. I said I was touched by it as well, sister. I said that there's no hypocrisy here. I said we've all been touched by it.