The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Idolatry & Sorcery (PART 4 of 5)
Have you ever wondered if God would remove someone from your life to keep you on the right spiritual path? This raw, powerful conversation explores how far God will go to preserve our faith when we're being drawn away from Him.
Brother Jeff shares his deeply personal story of how his former wife, who practiced witchcraft, was influencing him toward pagan practices before her sudden death in a car accident. This testimony opens a profound discussion about God's sovereignty and the sometimes dramatic ways He intervenes in our lives - from biblical examples like the destruction of Pharaoh's army to the overnight death of 185,000 Assyrian soldiers threatening Hezekiah.
The fellowship takes an encouraging turn as we explore the beauty of authenticity in Christian ministry. When someone suggested Brother Jonathan change his speaking style to be more "effective," it sparked a powerful reminder that God qualifies us despite our limitations. Like Moses and Paul who had speech impediments, God uses our natural personalities - even our weaknesses - to accomplish His purposes.
Sisters Mariah and Meg share testimonies of God's faithfulness through difficult seasons, emphasizing how reading Scripture aloud and surrounding ourselves with genuine believers creates an environment where faith can flourish. The conversation highlights that spending time with God should be a delight rather than an obligation, and that we never need to apologize for our Christian identity.
This episode offers comfort to anyone struggling with idol worship, unhealthy influences, or feeling inadequate for God's calling. As Sister Candy beautifully puts it: "The gifts and talents God has given you will supersede anything you ever do in this world, for it is not man who qualifies, but God who qualifies you."
Faith That Challenges. Conversations that Matter. Laughs included. Subscribe Now!
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so, my sister christine, don't worry, because this is going to be, this is going to be handled, because god does this with all of us. He did it with me, he did it with lisa, meg can't everybody here. He's going to do it with you he's going to do it with you.
Speaker 1:You keep trusting and leaning on him. Depend on him. Mariah, me as well. This is what we talked about. Idol worship, you know it can be in such a way where it can make it hard to do what you need to do, but when it comes to the communication or the relationship between us and the Lord, nothing must get in the way. I don't care what it is. Nothing gets in the way between you and the Lord. Brother Jeff, go ahead.
Speaker 3:You were going to say something. One thing I want to do is I certainly want to put out there that not all drugs, all medicines I hate the term drug. I never prescribe drugs to my patients. I hate the term drug. I never prescribed drugs to my patients. I prescribed medicines to them are bad. I take a few myself. I'm diabetic.
Speaker 3:Well, we're not talking about that kind of thing. I know, I know, but anyway, I just wanted to say you know, but I have known people say, well, I don't need to take any medications for any of my diseases. I said, well, I don't need to take any medications for any of my diseases. I said, well, unfortunately, you may die younger than you planned. It won't be younger than God planned, but it'll be younger than you planned because you know, let's face it.
Speaker 3:The other thing is I wanted to give Christine an affirmation. One is I've heard her talk and everything. I've heard her talk. I feel the Holy Spirit within her. I feel the Holy Spirit within her. I mean, if she had not told me all that stuff, you know, I mean, the thing is, she, you have the Spirit. Christina, you are beautiful.
Speaker 3:Everything that's happened to you I mean you know, I could tell you stories Everything that's happened to you has happened to most of us. And the thing is, god's always been there for me. He will be there for you. And the thing is, this's always been there for me, he will be there for you. And the thing is, this group will be there for you. I mean, I don't have much, but if you need $10, I'll send you $10. You know, I mean I've certainly given away about three years. Well, sure, lisa, anytime, you know, I'll mail it to your house and your husband can find out why you're getting money from this strange guy.
Speaker 3:But the thing is, you know, but my point is, we're here, we are your family. I mean, they are my family. And you know, we may not be together physically but we are definitely tight knitted spirit. And you know, the thing is, we're going to uphold you. You keep coming back, we're going to pray over you. God has got you by the hand. You know, it's just.
Speaker 3:I'm just overwhelmed here. I just want to tell you that I just feel so good about this. I mean, yeah, you don't need to be. You know, have I smoked marijuana A little bit? The woman hey, jonathan, the woman I just left she smoked a joint every night. I can't stand the smell of this stuff. I didn't do it, not because I felt morally high, I just don't like it. But the thing is, you know, it's just, there are all kinds of things in our past and you know I'll make a full confession here.
Speaker 3:My wife that was the witch was drawing me away. I started reading her books. She was drawing me away from the faith, and what Jonathan said may be exactly right. Maybe God accomplished that just to save me. And that makes me want to cry, because if I thought that he actually let somebody be killed just to put me right on the back path, that's enough to make me just want to fall down and just weep because I just I just don't feel like I'm worth that and I'm not.
Speaker 3:But the thing is nevertheless, it happened, and it happened a long time ago, and every halloween night, I remember it. I remember the deputy coming to my door. I wasn't in the car with her when she had the car wreck. She was with another man. That's another story, but the thing is I had to go to a town 20 miles away, to a funeral home to identify my wife who, just a few hours before I, saw full life. And the thing is to think that you know that just shocked me. You know what I did with those books, jonathan, what I lit a fire in my fireplace and I burned them. I burned them. I felt that was the proper thing to do not throw them in the trash for somebody else to fish out, but to burn them, and I was just so overwhelmed with just how things are. Anyway, I'm sorry I don't want to make this about me, but anyway, tina, I'll be praying for you. That's one thing I am pretty good at these days. That's a good thing about being retired. You've got a lot of time to pray.
Speaker 1:That's a good thing about being retired, you got a lot of time to pray. Anyway, it's funny because one thing that I've noticed over all this time that we've been having these, these fellowships, is that on any given night, if we're talking about a particular subject, especially if it has practical implications, which they all should, that there will always be that one or two people who the subject we've been talking about has really impacted, and you can always tell, because they become particularly passionate about speaking out. And so, brother Jeff, you're not speaking too much, you're speaking from somebody who's been dealing with the very topics that we're dealing with tonight.
Speaker 3:And I want to tell you you're the only people outside of my family I've ever told this. And the reason why my family knew is that when she died, my parents and my sister and everybody came to my house and I actually talked to my sister about it in a positive way and then it's like the Lord struck me down and said are you crazy? My sister's in heaven now. She died of brain cancer last year. My parents are gone. I've never told it to anyone else and you know I felt like I needed to because I didn't want you to think oh yeah, I was standing by while my wife was being a witch and, you know, saying you shouldn't do that. No, I was starting to be part of it. I never, I never did any rituals or anything, just read. But again, you know I was headed in that direction. I mean it's just awful.
Speaker 1:But see, here's, here's the thing, here's the other thing, brother Jeff and this is for everybody else to understand too, and keep in mind everything I say these things come right back to me too. We all have these things that we have dealt with. But the other side of this like what Jeff is talking about is that even if he didn't do those things, even if he didn't read the books, even if he didn't whatever, if you align yourself with a person that gives them the sanctioned comfort in doing it, we might as well be doing it. If you understand what I'm saying, in other words, if you can allow someone to feel comfortable about sin, that you know goes contrary to your God and you do nothing about it, this is also how we contribute to the wickedness of other people, christians. This is why sometimes, this is why sometimes I can tell when some Christians don't know the Old Testament, because you will see a different side of how God deals with things. But when you understand his attribute that he doesn't change, that he doesn't change, you have to understand something he's the same God. You might find it unbelievable to even contemplate the possibility that God may remove somebody from your life in a mortal way.
Speaker 1:But how many people did God destroy when the Egyptians were chasing after Israel? Over 600 chariots of riders, and most of them probably had more than one. All dead, all gone. The 3,000, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the law and they were worshiping the calf? 3,000, gone. The king of Babylon telling Hezekiah, not even talking. Hezekiah, remember, hezekiah was the king. So the Assyrian king is bypassing Hezekiah and telling his people, telling his people not to listen to him. And Hezekiah was like oh lord, I need some help, I need some help, I need some help. And God heard his prayer. Does anybody know what happened after that? Anybody?
Speaker 3:What happened? The angel of the Lord well, actually, yeah, I think was that when the angel of the Lord went out and killed all of them, I think so. And then they had the two guys the lepers at the gate.
Speaker 1:Well, the first thing is or was that another account? No, you're probably in the right place but the first of all the egypt, the assyrian king, it says he hears the whispers right about something else that he, someplace else he needed to be right, exactly he got.
Speaker 3:He got drawn away.
Speaker 1:But then they woke up the next morning because his men were still there. And they woke up the next morning and 185,000 of his army, they were all dead.
Speaker 3:That's right yeah.
Speaker 1:All of them. I could go throughout the scriptures with accounts like this. So what I'm saying is there are things that we know to do, or at least that we should know to do, by the precepts that the Lord has laid out for us as believers, and that the Spirit of God guides us within our hearts to know to do. He calls to remembrance things that we have understood, studied, learned, heard, preached. So if you're in a situation and you recognize that something is not right Now, the only thing to do is to act on it, to correct it. But if you don't, you're inviting the Lord, you're inviting him to step in and take drastic measures, and this is something that we need to always step in and take drastic measures, and this is something that we need to always contemplate. Sister Candy, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I just want to read out of Isaiah, Isaiah 63. If you don't care, can I read seven verses? Go ahead, Okay. He says verse 7 of 63,. I will mention the loving kindness of the Lord and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord has bestowed upon us and the great goodness toward the house of Israel which he has bestowed upon them, according to his mercies, according to the multitude of his loving kindness. He says he bore them and carried them all the days of old, but they rebelled and grieved his holy spirit. So he turned himself against them as an enemy and he fought against them.
Speaker 2:Here's what I was originally going to read, but then, when you started talking about what you just started talking about, it kind of flowed in with that too. So verse 11 starts. Then he remembered the days of old Moses and his people saying when is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who put the Holy Spirit within them? Who led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm dividing the water before them to make for himself an everlasting name? Who led them through the deep as a horse in the wilderness that they might not stumble as a beast goes down into the valley and the spirit of the lord causes him to rest. So you lead your people to make yourself a glorious name. And with that I just want to say because a lot of the holy spirit Spirit is definitely always in here God knew that we would need His Holy Spirit to help us live the way.
Speaker 1:He wants us to Yep. Absolutely, mariah, did I get to you? Mariah, did I skip you? Go ahead, kany.
Speaker 2:You can let the Spirit choose the road that we're going to take. It's not on us anymore, so we literally have to let go. And in order for your mind to be ruled by spirit, we've got to remain close. And in order to remain close, how do we do that?
Speaker 2:We spend time in prayer and and in his word, and those things we have to put those things in our lives. Like you know, I said before about put the app on your phone, set your alarm. When your alarm goes off, first thing you do, grab your phone, read a morning scripture, say a prayer, do a little devotion. It don't take five minutes. If even that, you know what I'm saying, but at least give him first, before we ever hit our feet on the ground. He woke us up and we're not promised tomorrow well, you know.
Speaker 1:You know, see, the thing about it is I'll say this too like spending time with the lord of god, with the word of god, spending time with the lord god. It shouldn't be like this kind of thing where, like, let me and I'm not suggesting Candy, you're saying this, but it was just making me think about it because I have done this in the past, you know, especially in my younger years, where you will do what you think is enough to get by, when, in fact, worshiping God for the Christian should be a delight, should be a delight. I agree, my wife can tell you that I could sit here at this table or my office, or whatever, all day long. Literally, I could do it all day Reading the Word of God, listening to sermons, reading sermons, writing sermons, writing Bible studies, you know, looking at texts. I could do it all day, every day, all day, and never leave the house. Every day, all day, and never leave the house, because it's a delight. You know, and I have to.
Speaker 1:You know, and so, and it's a great thing For me Personally that he gave this to me To do and that my wife encouraged me to do it, and so, and now here we are, and so I wish that every Christian could love the word of God and these things the way I do, and more so. I wish this for all of you to love it. More than that, you know, the only thing About getting older that I love Is that I'm getting closer to go see my Lord. Otherwise, man, if I could Take what the Lord shows me now and take the experience that the Lord gives me now and go back to when I was converted at 19 years old and to be able to like, just continue to just do this, I would love it. But I'm looking forward to seeing my lord, though, that's for sure. Mariah, go ahead, sister.
Speaker 5:Go ahead, sister. I just wanted to say that it is healthy to surround yourself with things Like I'm a stay-at-home mom and so I have duties, family duties, during the daytime. But while Meg is working and I'm working in my household and getting things together, we do sit on panels for hours talking and preaching the word when we can and getting in, and I think that that is like um, I think it was sister lisa talking about like a healthy, uh, addiction of the lord, though hunger for the Lord to be around those, because I could be listening to anything else in the world or you know, talking senseless and useless, vain things, but instead I found a hunger in me that wants to just hear the Lord if, if it's not sermons, then it's sitting on a panel that I know that is of God and things of that nature, and studying when I can as well. I'm still doing that, by the way, but I do want to say to Sister Tina that you know prayer, just keep praying and reading that word out loud, because it does affect your household and for the longest, like I've mentioned before, my husband was a JW and I would sit and I would read the word out loud and I would ask like what do you think about this? Just to get the wheels turning and things of that nature? Like what do you think about this Just to get the wheels turning, and things of that nature. And not to say that you know, god answers our prayers in his own time. He is not subject to answer them when we feel like it, but he is faithful and he will do that which is right, that it is according to his will to those who love Him.
Speaker 5:And it was hard. I've been with my husband for 17 years now and it wasn't right away and we still have our issues here and there, you know. But pray about it and seek the Lord first and listen to that still quiet voice and sometimes it may even think or sound like it is your own, but it is not. It's telling you to do something and it's telling you these things and your flesh will combat it and say why this and why that? And when we get to questioning things, then we say we should have went with our first mind and I often think that that is the Lord telling us, because it's always right.
Speaker 5:The first mind is never wrong. So I think that that is a sign of the Lord, just giving you the right direction in which we should go. But stay in prayer and all those things that you have gone through. I have gone through as well and too, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it's Jesus Christ himself, and you know it's just be encouraged. Times and seasons are rough, but trials and tribulations we will have and they are promised to us, that we will go through in our life and suffer, and sometimes it's in our own household and and yes, marriage is a big thing and that even the small, the family dynamic that you have, satan wishes to destroy that little bit that you do have, you know. So continue to push forward in prayer and seek the Lord. I'm not saying that you already aren't doing that, by the way.
Speaker 1:Sister Tina, let me get back. Let me come back to you for a second. Sister Meg, how about you? What do you get? What do you think?
Speaker 4:How about you? What do you think? I just love Mariah Nathan's coming up on panels now, where he used to not, and he's always in this life too, and me and Mariah and Brother Kev will sit and talk to people like I'll be doing my work and you know, and it's, it's really good to be with such a wonderful group of people who sincerely love the Lord and love the people you know, no matter who they are, to just care enough to say you know what? Like before we came here, me and Mariah, we were over there talking to this 18 year old boy who's a catholic, who has just no idea what he, what is even going on, and I had to be rough with him. But I said I want you to know I love you, I'm not, I'm not telling you these things because you know I care about you and so if, if I, if you feel I'm being a little bold and aggressive, don't get offended, but I just want to talk to you and tell you the truth. I mean, guys, we don't have much time. I'm praying, for I don't know about y'all, but I'm praying for the Lord, jesus Christ, to come back any day. I'm waiting for that mountain to crack into all eyes to see him and us to get out of here. You know, and we, just we have to continue to be bold for the Lord.
Speaker 4:You know you said something, brother Jonathan, a while back. You were saying you know, these great people are being taken from the earth and who are going to be those people to stand up and be bold for the Lord and speak those things that need to be said, the truth of God's word. But the truth of God's word is studying God's word, so you're able to articulate and not only find out what you believe. It's very easy to say what you believe, but why do you believe what you believe? And I learned that, brother Jonathan, you're my brother for real, so you know that really sparked something in me and took my reading and just wanting to understand to a whole nother level.
Speaker 4:Because how many people can answer why? And we have to give an answer. That's what our faith calls us to do, is to give an answer on why we believe what we believe. And you know I don't care. You know you'll hear somebody saying oh, you're a woman, I'm not listening to you, but okay, that's fine, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to say it.
Speaker 4:So, whether your ears choose to listen or not, that's up to you, but we're all called to share the word of God. Every single one of us, no matter who it is. Be bold. If family has to go away bye, if your friends have to go away bye, it does not matter.
Speaker 4:You know why? Because the Lord Jesus Christ put each and every one of us here for a purpose and we were born for such a time as this, and the time is now. We could have been born at any other time, but the Lord Jesus Christ chose us to be in here for this time as part of the plan, and each and every one of us are a part of that, and that's why, no matter where we are in the body of Christ, it doesn't matter. We all play a part, an important part, and it's important to the Lord. And so we just have to continue to do as we are called to do yield to the spirit, listen, let the word of God heal you. There's no such thing as deliverance ministries. That's garbage. Such thing as deliverance ministries that's garbage, it's absolute garbage. The only thing, the word of god will literally heal you right, it will heal you. There's nothing else we need. We are fully equipped. And if, if, if?
Speaker 1:no one wants to hear it, oh well well, right, you know it's, it's such, it's such a like, like I think. I think that somehow the Christian church has allowed the world to make it soft, has allowed the world to make it soft. Christians, we need to stop apologizing to people for being Christian and we need to stop apologizing to people for saying things that our Lord told us to say. We need to stop apologizing to the world for being in his service. You know, I remember when I was younger there were people that used to always tell me oh, you're this, you're that, you're that? I kid you not, this is a true story.
Speaker 1:This happened to me yesterday, yesterday, a good friend of mine, who I've grown up with since I was in Junior high school, sends me A message, a text, and he says I think you need to Change the way you speak. He told me I need to change From one type of voice To another type of voice. You know, got real, you know, think about it. And you know, I believe he was trying to help. And I said, and I asked the question what is this coming up for? I said where are you? What are you talking about? So apparently he's been listening to, to my I guess my lives or I don't know what, something about this. But he told me I need to. You know I'm being careful in case he listens to this, but I don't hide things who cares.
Speaker 1:I want to hear.
Speaker 1:But what he said and I said well, but it's real simple as this. Well, but it's real simple as this. He, you know, he thought that I would be more effective if I spoke in a different voice, and I mean, I'm talking about in an aesthetic, some kind of voice Like he talks about. Well, comedians speak one way and these kind of people speak this way, and if you spoke this way, it would make you more effective, or whatever. But see, here's the thing. I just wrote to him and I said you know what? I'll let the Lord work that out. I let the Lord work that out. Paul had a problem speaking. Moses had a problem speaking. There are others in the scriptures that weren't speakers. I don't consider myself a speaker Blabbermouth maybe, but not a speaker. But this is what you get, Because this is all I got.
Speaker 2:Don't give us a line of you being the fluffy Jonathan speaking person. Give us that fluffy voice, jonathan. We just want you to pretend to be somebody. You're not negative, no, we love you just how you are, and so does Jesus.
Speaker 4:Amen, if you came any other way, I would be like look at this little wimpy man, I'd probably be giggling like dude.
Speaker 2:Why are you talking like that I love?
Speaker 4:it the itchiness Jonathan.
Speaker 2:You have it for a reason.
Speaker 1:You guys stop it, Because I wasn't pushing for this.
Speaker 4:No, I know, I'm just saying I think you know I'm going to tell you something Like I love you just how you are. You know, you don't realize. Don't realize how you're impactful and the Lord created you just that way. He gave you your voice, he gave you the way that you speak, he gave you your zeal, he gave you your heart. And you know what there's nothing that needs to change with that heart. And you know what there's there's nothing that needs to change with that because you know what?
Speaker 4:it, it's, it's, it's perfect. And you know what? I'm gonna tell you something me, I, I am like I'm the same way. I can't, I don't know any any other way, way to be? No way, no way. Well, you know, you know, here's the way I look at it. I'm sorry, I mean, I don't know any other way to be, no way. Well, you know, here's the way I look at it. I'm sorry, I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't know what he. You know. I don't know what he. You know what he's thinking, or where he's coming from, or what he's thinking he's helping or whatever. But listen, the way I look at it. This way, however I speak, whatever my pitch and intensity is, or my, my, uh, uh, I forget what you call it, um, anyway, whatever it may be. And I'm coming to you Jeff next, cause I know, I know you put your hand up, but then hopefully it will make people focus more on what I'm saying, cause I really don't care how, how I say it, unless I'm not being, unless I'm being rude or something like that, but what I'm saying is.
Speaker 1:My goal, in hope is that if my weakness of speech enhances what I'm saying, I would rather that be the case, because sometimes, when people speak in what others think are eloquent, dreamy ways, they get caught up in the rapture of the speaking and lose the message. And this is what, and this is what that whole thing is, what those greeks back in the old testament times were always about. Remember the guy who was speaking, and he was speaking these great words and then God killed him on the spot. Remember that While he was preaching it's in the book of Acts Struck him down dead. And so, because they worshipped eloquent speaking, let's put together a really an, an orchestrated, really solid arrangement of words. We'll focus on inflection and pitch and voice and oratory, and that's what they loved back there, that's what the greeks loved in the bible. And look, excuse me, and I'm not especially at my age now I'm not trying to modify anything like that. I'm just going to put what's on my heart and say that.
Speaker 4:Jonathan, you know what? My husband just came in my room and said Because we got you blaring all over the house? My husband said it's because you're calm. He says you're calm, he's like, and you don't get angry. You just speak out and you're calm. He's like, and you don't get angry. You just speak out and you're, you're just the same and he's like, and he's like that's.
Speaker 1:that's why they're just haters, that's my, my husband, my husband.
Speaker 4:He was sat there today. He's like I just love jonathan. I was like, oh, he was like he's just, he really does he lists. We listen together every night. He's just in the living room I'm in the my other room with the bible so but he listens to you every single night well, I appreciate all you guys in the kind words and I swear I wasn't fishing for that.
Speaker 1:I just trying to tell you that that it's um you have to you. You, what you are, is what God wants you to be, and he will use your talents, your gifts, even if they may not be gifts to you, they may not seem like gifts to you and they may not sound like gifts to the other people, but God is focusing on us glorifying him through his word, focusing on us glorifying him through his word.
Speaker 2:He will take whatever my fragile proclivities are and make them useful to the ears of those who are listening. That's what I was going to say, because you don't have to have that Christian job label, you don't have to change who you are because that's the work of god that is done within you so that he uses you right where you are.
Speaker 1:that's right, that's, that's all. That's all I can, that's all I can do. And um, you know, like it, like I have um, and I'm sure you guys know this, but I, I'm this, but I talk fast. By nature I'm a fast, I speak fast, and it takes a lot of effort for me to slow that down. It takes a lot of effort for me to slow it down because I want people, I don't want God's qualitative message to be blunted by my rapid speech and I'm just stepping over words, and so I need to make things clear and when you get to certain places of the scripture, you need to be able to enunciate properly so that people understand what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:I can't just blurt through propitiation. I can't just blurt through omniscience or any words that are in the Bible or that reference things that speak to God's character and His way and His will and things like this. So the whole point is, anyway, just be who you are and don't think that you are not useful to God because of some frailty that you think prohibits you from being effective. It's not you that's being effective. Even when you are effective, it's the Lord in you Amen.
Speaker 4:I'm going to tell you something. When I switched jobs, I had prayed for a different job for three years and I knew what the Lord. I had made my request known to the Lord and I knew that he was going to fulfill them and finally I got moved to construction and even though I asked to get out of the restaurant business and to have a five-day work week, I still asked the Lord. I said, lord, of all the places you could have put me in, you put me in construction. I said I don't know anything. The Holy Spirit said this. He says my child, the gifts and talents that I have given you will supersede anything and everything that you ever do in this world, for it is not man who qualifies, but it is me who qualifies you.
Speaker 1:Yes, Amen sister.
Speaker 4:Amen. And I said you know what, lord, you're right, you qualify me. And, just like you know, it's not the world, just like the Holy Spirit showed me, it's not the world that qualifies us, it's the Lord, god Almighty, that qualifies us. And if God can be for you, then who can be against you? Nobody.
Speaker 1:Brother Jeffrey go ahead.