The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: The MARKS of Grace (Part 2 of 4)
If belief never costs you anything, is it belief at all? We open the playbook on costly discipleship and trace how Paul’s scars became his résumé, a living argument that the gospel is worth more than comfort, reputation, or safety. Through heartfelt stories and Scripture, we explore why real faith chooses obedience when relationships strain, why joy can coexist with trials, and how the Spirit turns our weakness into a stage for grace.
We get honest about “soft faith” and the ways modern convenience reshapes our expectations of the Christian life. From Acts’ rejoicing after a beating to Paul’s declaration that God’s strength is made perfect in weakness, we ask what marks we’re seeking: external badges that flatter the flesh or the inner transformation that endures when the crowd turns away. The contrast with the Judaizers is sharp and timely—rituals may soothe anxieties, but only Christ justifies and only the heart circumcised by the Spirit perseveres under pressure.
Along the way, we press into a service mindset. Veterans wear ribbons that tell their story without words; believers carry scars of faithfulness that speak of love, courage, and a King whose victory is secure. That certainty doesn’t bench us; it deploys us. Study the Word like a playbook, train for trials, and stay on mission, knowing the gates of hell will not prevail. If you’ve felt the pull toward ease, let this conversation reawaken a resilient joy and a steady courage that returns to the hard place because Christ is worthy. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs courage today, and leave a review with one takeaway you’re ready to live out.
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Listen, unless you really believe, only somebody who really believes would subject themselves to this. I have no doubt that if Paul had come under, had I have no doubt that there have been multiple times where he perhaps might have been offered the opportunity to recant. But I know he didn't. And had he done so, we would not have the gospel as illustratively as we have it today. But he didn't. He subdued, he subjected his body, he subjected his body to scourging, stoning, and a variety of persecutions because he truly believed. And here's what we need to understand, believers. My brethren in Christ, listen. Here's what we need to understand that this is what belief produces. The willingness, the willingness to subject yourself, to subject yourself to scourging, to persecution, to ridicule, to mocking, to stoning, if it may be, to be shot, whatever it may be. And do not believe, do not become so naive to believe that whatever it may be required to this degree might not be required of you today, in this age. Because what I see going on in the world today is that there's a very real possibility that this can happen to Christians today. And soon. So what I'm saying here is that Paul, his marks that were in his body, they were his credentials of his service to the Lord Jesus Christ. Brother Jeffrey, encourage you to serving. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:So I just want to add that whoever the individual was that you spoke this truth to, they must have been pretty close to you. And we love you, brother, and we applaud you for your willingness to speak that truth as painful as it must have been to do it. But that shows us that you are who you say you are, that you, that He is Christ is living in you. And a desire to provoke and persuade is real. The person receiving the provoking and the persuasion, I guess, didn't want to listen to it anymore or doesn't agree with what you're uh preaching from that position. Keep preaching what you do. You're called to do what you do. All right. Don't depart from that. Don't let someone who was close to you who may have fallen away. Keep you from that. Do what you do because that's what God has called you to do. All right. That's what you are. That's what He has gifted you to do. All right. And you are a man of honor. You're a man of love. You're a man of grace. We here on the panel love you, support you. Sometimes the truth doesn't always line up with what we think it should be or how we want it to feel. Sometimes truth is hurtful, but it's necessary sometimes. You just keep giving us God's word. You're growing us. Yes, growth is painful. It's not easy. Where does it say in his word, Jonathan? Somebody on the panel tell me where it says that our growth is going to be easy. No hard times. It's going to be convenient. It's going to happen when we want it, how we want it, where we want it. I don't read that anywhere, folks. Our brother here is teaching us we're going to get truth when God decides to give it to us. Take it. With that, Jonathan, we love you. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't let this sidetrack you. You're too important in what God is doing. I hope, I hope I can talk and speak for everybody in the panel this evening. You're doing what you're gifted to do. Keep doing it. And with that, I hope everyone will say amen with me. Thank you, brother. Appreciate that. Appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02:Amen. And I make two points now.
SPEAKER_05:Let me go in order, Jay, but I'll definitely get you, okay? So hold on to that thought, okay? I just want to go in order. I don't want to lose place with anybody. Sister Candy, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I've been quiet. So I got a few things to say based off everything you've said, okay? So first and foremost, I want to go to Jonah 2.9. He says, but I will sacrifice to you with the voice of thanksgiving. I will pay what I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord's. So that is his. Everything we do, again, what I always say, I'm dead. I'm not, there is no me. It's it's him who lives in me, right? But then I also want to go back to 2 Corinthians chapter 11. And I was going to talk about um what Paul went through, but something brought me back up here to verse um 20. Actually, I'm gonna start at 19. For you put up with fools gladly, since you yourselves are wise. For you put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face, to shame I say that we were too weak for that. But in whatever anyone is bold, I speak foolishly because I am bold also. But then I also want to jump over here to chapter 12, verse 9. And he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Because again, it's not us. We we that sanctification, that Holy Spirit that indwells in us, that the God that lives in us is way, way more powerful than I who am living in this world. And I said I because that's being selfish, but there is no I, because there is no me. It is he who lives in me that is greater than he who is in the world.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, amen, sister. Thank you so much, Candy. I appreciate that. Good word there, Mariah, Mariah and then Jay.
SPEAKER_06:Um, so what you were speaking about, um, I know that it's tough. I just, you know, okay, hold on. I've brought people to faith too and to see it, and it just ruins a relationship. They no longer want to speak to you because the truth that faith here is now offensive to them in so many ways. Hold on, and um, so I just wanted to read to your point of what you were saying about um them suffering and recanting. One second. Um, I acts 540, or I'll read 39. But if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest even you be found fighting against God. And they agreed with him, and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus and let not the and let them go. So they departed from the presence of the council and rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer for suffer shame for his name. So I think that that's beautiful because yes, and it says they went on daily teaching in the temple in every house, and they did not cease from teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_06:That's all I wanted to share.
SPEAKER_05:Amen, sister. Thank you for that, brother Jay. Go ahead. Jay and then Lisa, and then Brian after that. So, Jay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Wait, two points, and let me finish it on Jonathan. One, I have a note here that talks about worship, family worship. And this has to do with you, John, Jonathan, because it says the ministry of restoration can only be exercised by believers who are spiritually strong. Paul's injunction is that those who are spiritually spiritual are to restore the one who is called up to God and falls into sin. Their appearance and a ministry of restoration can only be exercised by believers who themselves are on their guard. And one of them and one of the marks of spiritual strength is his cautiousness. So as to avoid every pit that Satan digs into which careless four U 23, should this not move us to pray earnestly that we might keep employing? And then a note on verse 17 uh a little note, trouble. Paul now, Paul's plural noun signifying the many distractions that Paul suffered to due to departure from the truth of Galatian church. So it's just that Paul was concerned, you know, uh about what says here, uh uh departure from the truth. He was concerned that people departed for the truth. And so, you know, he Christ suffered a lot. Well, he suffered a lot for the gospels, and so the bare mark his marks in his body. He called it in other words, take mine of the Catholic the way they say it. But he bought bore the marks of of his suffering, and he didn't let nothing slow him down. He was there to preach the gospel, and he was telling the rest of the people to stay strong, brothers, stay strong, and that's it.
SPEAKER_05:So let me say this. So I want I want to remember that what you just said because what Brother Jay just said about nothing slowing Paul down. I want everybody to remember this because I'm gonna bring this up again. I'm gonna bring this up again. Nothing slow Paul down, and he's and Brother Jay is right. And I'm gonna bring this up again, and and it may create wounds in some folks. But I want to make sure you understand what I'm saying and what the apostle was saying, and understand what the brother Jay just said, because in spite of all that Paul suffered, it did not cause him to wane one way or the other. He continued in his path, in this calling to do what was called, and he did not let the persecution or the stoning or the scourging dissuade him from his mission. He stayed on mission, regardless of what it cost him physically, spiritually, emotionally, or whatever. He stayed on. And this is what I was talking about about today's Christianity. Soft. Soft. And as I said earlier, I'm not gonna get into the weeds about what I wanted to say, but this is the crux of the matter. This man went through scourging, he went through stoning, and he went through persecution, and he kept on. He kept on, he didn't need a vacation. He didn't need a trip to the Bahamas. He didn't need a TikTok break. So all I'm saying is that, as I have said over and over again, if you've heard me, I've said this many, many, many times. Being a Christian is difficult. It is more difficult than whatever you think in your life is difficult. Being a Christian is more difficult. More. I don't care what it is. You're not making enough money, you got too many kids, they're unruly, your husband is cheating on you, you're cheating on your husband, your job isn't right, you didn't get your promotion, whatever it is, these aren't Christian spiritual matters. And yet, these are the things that 21st century America, as Christians, believe are difficult. But again, I'm not going to go too far into that. Because I'm hoping that what I'm saying is understood without me having to say it bluntly. But what I will say is that 21st century American Christianity is soft. Paul is talking about his credentials, his marks, his scars that he bore in service. If you are a military person, you understand what I'm talking about. We get these things that these these boards that they get put on our chests. And every one of them, without the military veteran having to say a word, all those things that are on a military's uniform. A military veteran's uniform, it tells you everything they did. Purple Heart, I was injured. The marksman, I was a good shooter. Every one of them tells you something different. Your hash marks tell you how long you've been, how many, how long you've been in the service. All these things tell you what you've done. They speak of what you've done, even so you don't have to say a word. Anybody sees this, these boards with all these lines of stuff. It tells you what you did and how you served, and it tells you who you served. There are so many men in the military who went into war, into Iraq, or whatever. It doesn't matter if you thought the war was justified or not, it doesn't matter about that. They did what they were called to do. And many, you'd be surprised at how many of them, after they were allowed to leave, volunteered to go back and to stay in the fight. Now, if military personnel, and I'm hot on this because I'm ex-military, if military personnel can go through all that they go to and endure all of the hardships of battle on the field, and then after they've been allowed an excuse to leave for good service done, say, no, sir, I want to go back and take the fight to them. Use me, let me go. This is what men do for their country, which you and I all know has no real benefit and advantage in the end when you think about it, because Christ is going to come back to change a fallen world. So if these guys can do what they do for a world that is failing and fallen, what is it that troubles you about serving for a world that you are guaranteed to be successful in bringing about perfect holiness, righteousness, and glory for the Lord and Savior of the world? These men do what they do to serve the flag, you United States of America. And yet, we know what the ultimate demise will be of America and every nation on this earth. But we have the Lord Jesus Christ, the King of the universe, the ruler and creator of all that exists, of all that we see, of all that we are, the King of spirits, the creator of spirits. The one who tells us, go and fight, and the victory is already yours. I've guaranteed it, I've secured it. But we're too soft, we're too busy. Too busy. We have more important things to do. We need vacations, we need a break. Sister Lisa, go ahead. Hope you didn't forget what you were what you were holding on to. Go ahead. Lisa and then Brian.
SPEAKER_07:You know me so well. Hope you didn't forget. Um, I did kind of, but what I wanted to say, I wanted to commend you, um, you know, uh, for your your emotions. Um I just it it reminded me of what Paul must have been feeling writing these letters, knowing that these were believers, and he's he's worried about them. He loves them. He's he's probably grieved a little bit for them. Um and I get the impression that's kind of how you're feeling. Um I don't know if you're regretful of what you said. You said you no, you said you didn't regret what you said to this individual. And that that's what if it was truth, it needed to be said. And, you know, uh, I think Candy was saying just a reminder, it just made it obvious to me how much you care about this individual, but we got to remember sometimes the sheep in the fold likes to go astray, you know, we've all done it, and who came after us was our Lord Jesus. So, you know, you know, if what you said is gonna it helped, I guarantee you, I heard some things that really I I said this before in lives, I've heard things that really offended me, um, but they saved my life, you know. I mean, I know it's the Lord that saved my life. So, you know, remember Jesus wept. I think we all feel it when we see someone we care about, someone we love as a brother or sister in Christ taking those steps away. Um it's it's hard to see. It's I think it's a spirit grieving inside of us, you know. Um anyway, I think that was sort of it, but I I think I think I had a better point, but you're right, if I didn't read it out right away, it's it's gone.
SPEAKER_05:Write it down next time.
SPEAKER_07:Then I'll miss what y'all are saying.
SPEAKER_05:So exactly. Brother Brian, go ahead. Brian is a Jeffrey man of God. Go ahead. Brian, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, as you was um, as everybody was speaking and stuff, and when you was when uh Jay had said nothing slowed Paul down like cover. Remember you some uh the marks, the marks in the body, not and I remembered uh the one scripture that we always talk about as a believer. We say we just want to, Paul said he just wanna know him in the part of his resurrection, the fellowship of his of his suffering. So what but what what what always astounded me, what really had me perplexed, if it's anything in Paul's life and in his writings that had me perplexed, is what this is what I didn't understand. So him and Barnabas went to this city called Isaconium. And they went in the city, went in the synagogue, and a lot of Jews and a lot of Gentiles believed a miracle took place. After the miracle took place, these Gentiles, they was about to offer sacrifices, and they start calling them uh I guess the Greek Greek gods or whatever.
SPEAKER_04:Gods, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So then they stone Paul and they suppose him to be dead and drug him outside the city. But what had me perplexed about this, he goes right back to the same city and preaches again. Yes. He goes right back. I mean, just think about if I if I go to Chicago, I get shot at, I'm out there preaching, I get shot at, and I go right back to the same spot and preach again.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Where I got shot at.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. That's exactly this this that, brother. Let me tell you something. That's exactly, see, the the beauty of this whole thing is right now, you are saying exactly, probably in better way, in a better way, than I would say it. Because this is exactly what Paul is talking about. And this is exactly what I mean about 21st century Christian being soft. He didn't run away from it. Jesus didn't run away from it. None of the faithful people of God anywhere in the scripture, none of them ran away from it. They didn't run away from it, they went through it. And so it's it's just it's hard to try to get the modern mindset of the of the of the believer today to understand what is required. And it's it's difficult to get us to understand how short this life is. But I get it. I don't want to pretend like like I'm some luminary, because I'm not. I'm just as fragile as everyone listening. But but what moves within a Christian to serve their Lord transcends the human aspect, and this and we yield ourselves to the Spirit of God to be led by Him, which is what Paul told us in first in the same book in chapter 5. Those who are led by the Spirit. Sometimes these things just can't be or I sometimes, you know, I don't know. I don't sometimes I just don't feel I have the aptitude to explain it in a way that is articulate enough to be understood. There are many more people that are far more gifted in speaking than I am, and I wish I could convey it to your hearts that what this is talking about. You have to be willing to put it all on the line for Christ. This 70, 80, 90, 100 years that he gives us is a vapor. It's like somebody puffing a cigarette and the smoke comes out of the cigarette or out of the breath, and then in fractions of a second is gone. That's our life. That's our life. So many Christians have been led to believe that your whole experience here as a Christian is to be one of comfort and convenience. And it is not. Who ever said that? No one ever said that. Christ never said that. No apostle, disciple, no one in the scriptures ever said that. But somehow we live in a time now because we live in this age and day and age where people believe, Christians believe, even Christians, that we are entitled to comfort. Our comfort is to be found only in Christ and Him alone. And that means comfort, as we talked about when we talked about joy in Galatians 5, we talked about joy. And we clearly articulated that joy was not just this casual, circumstantial, circumstantial happiness. Joy was something that a possesses that a Christian possesses even when they are going through hardship. Brother Bryant says, Cotton candy Christianity, that is what we have become accustomed to. Cotton candy Christianity is soft, is fuzzy, but it's not real. Not just for me. I want it to be for all of you. You guys don't understand. I pray for all of you literally every day. You here in this, listen to me right now. I do. I'm not exaggerating and I'm not lying. I'm telling you the truth. So what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, we need to understand that that what it means to be in service to Christ means that we are his service members, just like we look at our our service members in our military, except we have a cause that we know we shall accomplish. We are told in Matthew 16, 18, that the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ's church. He's basically telling you, go to war, don't worry about the victory. It's already yours. I have already secured it. How lazy do you have to be, Christians? How lazy do you have to be to be told to go into war? Here's the armor, go and fight, you will definitely win, and then you not go anyway. I'm speaking to myself as well. I'm not condescending, I'm not pointing a finger, and I'm not judging. I'm just telling you the flat out truth. And this is something that the apostle Paul understood. And he says, I bear in the bot in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus Christ. But you know what he's doing? Paul is crafty. He is shrewd. Shrewd, gentle as a dove, wise as a serpent, the apostle Paul is. Wise. Because we started this, the apostle Paul started this whole conversation with the Galatian church by telling them who has bewitched you, who has caused you to pervert the gospel by adding a little leaven to the gospel and making the gospel no longer the gospel. He tells them that you have allowed these people to take the grace that I've told you about and taught you about. You have allowed these people to frustrate the grace which is that which comes by faith that is given to you. Justification is by faith and faith alone. But the Judaizers came and convinced you that you needed to be circumcised. And he's and they're telling him if you want to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, if you want to believe in him as your Lord and Savior, that's fine. So long as you get circumcised. Because we need to take something back to our leaders to tell them we got you. Making a fair show of you in the flesh, as we discussed in the last discussion. But Christians, listen to me here. Listen to me here. Paul says that I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. And he is contrasting. He is contrasting the marks that are in his own body, which are of the Lord Jesus Christ, from the marks of the Judaizers, which was what? Anybody. Anybody. What were the marks of the Judaizers?
SPEAKER_06:The circumcision?
SPEAKER_05:Yes. Circumcision. Paul is making that connection. He's going, he's going like, you want your marks of the circumcision? Those are the marks you want? The marks in my body are the marks of the Lord Jesus Christ. The marks that you want are the marks of the Judaizers. My marks have an inward in fact, had a have an inward impact on my heart inwardly, as we're going to see. But you want your marks to be of circumcision so that you can give credit to the Judaizers who want to make merchandise of you and make a fair show of you in the flesh. Paul uses his words meticulously. Perfect, perfect. I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. But you want to bear in your body the marks of the Judaizers. The same people that he said, let them be accursed. I hope that you guys are seeing this. Paul's marks are not in the flesh of ritual, but they are in the flesh of his suffering. And he is testifying that he belongs to Christ. And by you accepting this circumcision as a means of salvation, you are saying that you are receiving the marks in the flesh in order to appease and satisfy men. Not the Lord Jesus Christ. Your mark has nothing to do with Christ. If you want to be circumcised, you are looking for a mark of the Judaizers and men and not of Christ. This is what the Apostle Paul is saying. I tell you, I swear to you, I put my life on it. That's what he is telling you. It is a circumcision of the heart, like Brother Brian says, that we need to be looking for. It doesn't matter how much we agree about some of these, or agree, or disagree on some of these other issues in the faith that we understand. People learn at different stages, but I've got to tell you, the circumcision of the heart is what it is all about. The inward person. What Paul is saying is this, I don't need any more proof of my devotion that these are that these marks that I have are sacred. I don't need any more proof. And the Judaizers can't add anything to validate what I've gone through. It is Christ who validates what I've gone through. These scars that I've that I've obtained, these marks, are for him and by him. And they glorify him. Circumcision? What is that? It is the peeling off of the filth of the flesh of skin, but it has nothing to do with changing the heart that needs sin and his will, and the will that goes with sin, it needs to be peeled off. But circumcision of the flesh doesn't do it. Let me put it crudely. Peeling off the skin of the foreskin of the penis does not save anyone. It doesn't. I gotta tell you the truth. It doesn't. So what Paul is showing us is that stop take your eyes off of the flesh. This is what so many Christians do. Everything is about the flesh. What I can do, what I feel. This is why so many of these churches today make such a big thing about the Acts, about the book of Acts that they twist and turn and turn into so many different directions. Because people need to feel something. And what I need to know about him is that whatever it is I need to be justified before God is already done by him. And there's nothing else that I or any of you or anyone else can do for me to get there. Nothing. Brother Jeff, man of God, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:A couple things. I mean, we're all saved. We joined the Lord's army. He's our commander. There are people that have more experience, like yourself, you know, and that, but you don't command us, but you uh you have knowledge from study and from what the Holy Spirit has done in your life. And uh so you are, you know, you are like uh the platoon sergeant or the sergeant major or something like that uh from the army talk. But the thing is, our king, our commander is Jesus, we're in the we're in the service. Just like in the service, service is expected. Nobody sits on the sidelines. The second is that people you know, this Judaizer thing is so stupid because I mean, you look at what I would have told them as you know what circumcision was? Circumcision was given as a as a command by God to Abraham to set them apart. It had nothing to do with salvation. It just it just if you were circumcised and you're a man, if you if you went over and took a leak, everybody knew you were a Jew. You know, that's what it was for, is to set you apart. And uh that's all it was for. And you know, I was just reading R. C. Sproul's uh uh commentary in Galatians today, and you know, the law was abrogated as soon as Christ arrived. There was no need for the law, the law is nothing now, it's gone, it's been over, it's been super arrogated. You know, it's you know, it's you can't stress this enough. I mean, there is just like you say, there's Jesus and nothing, and the thing is, the law was the tutor to bring us to Christ just to show us we couldn't be saved on our own merit or effort or if for any reason. And when Christ came, he said, Okay, I'm the fulfillment. This is how you do it. Brother, and the thing is, you know, you you're gonna keep you're gonna keep out talking because that's what we all gotta do. The Holy Spirit's within us, all we gotta do is listen to him. And I spend hours a day studying, not to tell you this, but because it's something I feel compelled to do. I feel like the Lord is saying, get in that word and study it. And the thing is, the more you study the word, the more you want to tell people about it. And you're and you're ready to answer questions. And uh yeah, Joni uh indirectly telling me I'm talking too much. No, you're not gonna be.
SPEAKER_05:No, you know what? I'm gonna tell you something, brother. It it's so true because people that play sports. I was I was I didn't get into football and basketball, but I do understand one thing. Players in sports, they get a playbook. And they have to go study the playbook.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:They have to go study the playbook so that they can get into the game. I see you, Joni. I'm gonna get to you. And so they and when you go in when you're in the military, you have a you have a strategy that you have to discuss. And you go out there and do that.