The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Knowing the Terror of the Lord (Part 1 of 3)
What if the afterlife offers no do-overs and no quiet hallway where sins slowly burn away? We take a hard look at the doctrine of purgatory and test it against Scripture, focusing on the intermediate state, the language of hell and the grave, and the piercing clarity of Luke 16. Our aim isn’t to win an argument—it’s to restore the urgency of grace to the realm where it belongs: life before death.
We start by unpacking why fire imagery in the Bible can both destroy and purify, and why that symbolism doesn’t establish a post-mortem path to heaven. From there, we clear up a frequent confusion about Jesus and hell: the Gospels say His body lay in the tomb, not that He entered the place of torment to save the impenitent. If redemption is offered during life and the cross is sufficient, the logic of purgatory unravels.
Luke 16 becomes our anchor as we follow the rich man and Lazarus beyond the veil. Whether you read it as parable or a literal account, the scene reveals conscious awareness after death, a plea for relief, and a word that cannot be ignored: remember. That haunting detail reframes judgment as more than punishment—it is an awakened conscience that cannot forget. And then comes the hardest line of all: a great gulf is fixed. No passage from torment to comfort. No transfers. No second chance system waiting to be triggered.
If you’ve carried quiet hope that time after death will fix what you never surrendered in life, this conversation may sting—but it also points to a better hope. Mercy is real, present, and offered now. Listen, weigh the texts, and decide what you will do with the time you have. If this episode challenged or helped you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review to support the show.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
How is everyone doing? I'm going to get right in and I'm going to tell you what I'm going to talk about. I'm going to talk about the myth. The myth of purgatory. What you got to say. I love that. Purgatory. The myth of purgatory. A doctrine that has been embraced by hundreds of millions, hundreds of millions of people, and particularly those who belong to the Catholic Church. But purgatory. And a lot of the things I want to say about purgatory aren't going to just be about Catholics. It's also going to be about what people who are not Catholics might have to say about this idea of those things which take place in the afterlife or the intermediate state. Intermediate means the meaning being that state after death, but prior to the resurrection when Christ returns. So that is referred to as the intermediate state for those who don't know. I don't want to assume everybody doesn't know. For those who don't know, that's the intermediate state. Hey, brother, how are you doing? You know who you are. Glad you're on. So now this issue of purgatory. Because purgatory has its root in the idea of purging. So when we refer to purgatory, we're talking about purging. But what exactly is being purged? And when exactly is it being purged? And then let me back up. Purgatory is a place where it is presumed that those who die impenitent, unrepentant, sinners, those who die unsaved die. They go to a quote unquote holding place referred to as purgatory. And from purgatory, they can earn their way out and at some point in the future come out of purgatory and go to dwell with God and his people. But the thing that is being purged is their sin. The sin that was not purged while they were living on earth. Now fire, the idea of fire. Fire being used as a symbol for whatever it is that is going to be the eternal flame, figuratively speaking, that is going to be what is used to punish unrepentant and impenitent sinners. Fire can do two things. Fire can destroy and consume, but it can also purify. Can consume and destroy, or it can also purify. But the same fire can be used to purify jewelry, gold, uh, silver, brass. It purifies. It can be that which burns away dross. So it can destroy or it can purify. Carries with it the connotation of purifying. And in order to believe that, you have to believe that God has somehow established a mechanism, a methodology, and put it in place so that men who die in their sins can be purged of their sins after they die. Which begs the question why all this ruckus, why all this urgency about being saved while you're alive, if somehow you can be saved from purgatory. The reason there is an idea of purgatory is because it establishes false hope. It provides a means, at least historically, to be a source of income. A business. It's a business. But I don't want to go too deep down the road of purgatory. What I want to be able to do is start with this premise. Here's the premise that I am starting with. Christian friends, and if you're a Catholic or whatever, there is in the Bible no such thing as purgatory. No prophets taught it, no apostles taught it, Jesus didn't teach it. Now there is no getting out of hell when you go there. Jesus came to earth to die for our sins, so that while we are on earth, we can find and have access to salvation. Jesus did not go to hell to redeem anyone. And in addition to this notion, this false notion of purgatory, there is also this false notion and idea that Jesus Christ went to hell. Jesus Christ never went to hell. Not the place where the impenitent and unrepentant sinners go. Sometimes the word in English, the word hell in English, is used to translate the word grave. Jesus' body was put into the tomb, which was called the grave, which in English is translated hell. So hell can have a dual meaning. It can mean just the grave, but it could also mean the place where this soul is tormented, both before and after resurrection. Now, in Luke 16, Christians, listen. In Luke 16, we have the rich man and Lazarus that Jesus is talking about. Some people refer to it as a parable. I don't. I believe Christ is giving an actual narrative in Luke 16. But whether you believe it is a parable or whether you believe it was literal, like I do in this particular case, what I will say is this. Hey Claire, what I will say is this. Jesus definitely intended to give us a glimpse into what takes place to the righteous and the impenitent after they die, but prior to resurrection. So now keep in mind, we're still dealing with this idea of purgatory, which I will say once again, and I will continue to repeat: there is no such thing as purgatory in the Bible. The Bible does not talk about purgatory. Jesus didn't teach it, Peter didn't teach it, John didn't teach it, Paul didn't teach it, Moses didn't teach it, no one taught anything in the Bible at any time in the history of Christianity, no one taught purgatory. So if you are a friend of mine and you're Catholic, I'm sorry that I have to tell you this. But I'm really not sorry. Because the truth is the truth, and the word of God is good, and I love the word of God. But if you are holding to this false notion of purgatory because somebody you love, you know, was hellbent on never turning from sin, and you were at the funeral giving that eulogy about how great they were, deep down you know, deep down you know, there are people who will never be redeemed. If you shut your eyes on this earth, the second you shut your eyes on earth, your eyes wake up, you wake up in the afterlife. Shutting your eyes on earth in death, you simultaneously wake up in the intermediate state, either in hell or in Abraham's bosom, or what is also synonymously called paradise. So now, in Luke 16, we have this narrative that Christ has laid out for us of the rich man and Lazarus. And I'm gonna glean a few examples from about, I don't know, four, four or five verses. I'll put some notes down so I don't forget being an old man and all. So now the rich man and Lazarus die. Lazarus, who was poor, goes to Abraham's bosom. But the rich man lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and he sees Lazarus afar off in the bosom of Abraham. And it says in verse twenty-three of Luke sixteen, and being in torments in Hades, he, the rich man, lifted up his eyes, and he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, the rich man, that is, he cried out to Abraham, and he said, Have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said something interesting. He says something interesting. It wasn't part of what I really wanted to add to this conversation, but since I'm here, we might as well touch it. We might as well touch upon it. Abraham said, son, here's the key word. And likewise Lazarus evil things. And now Lazarus is comforted, and you are tormented. Now here's the thing. This struck me. Lazarus told, I mean, Abraham told the rich man, son, remember. Remember. Now remember, Lazarus has died. The rich man has died. And immediately after death, they are awake and conscious and aware, and their identity is known by them both. And they see each other even though they are far away, but they see each other as if they're close. Don't ask me how that is. I don't know. No one knows. We will know when we are known. When we leave here. But follow this. Abraham told the rich man, son. This is a big word here. He says, remember. Remember that in your lifetime you received good things and Lazarus his evil things. And now he is comforted, and you are tormented. What's my emphasis? I emphasizing the word remember. What does this tell you and I about what happens to souls when they die? It tells me and tells you, and if it doesn't, it should tell you right now. That when you die, especially if you have never turned to the Lord Jesus Christ, this passage tells you all of what you did in his life, you will remember. You will remember. All the evil you've done, you will remember. All of your sin in his life, you will remember. All of the wickedness you've done, you will remember. You will go through an eternity of remembering. Remembering all of your sin, all of your deeds, all of your fornications and adulteries, and lies, and covetousness, and greed, and superfluous ambition. And what the scripture refers to as the superfluity of naughtiness, you will remember it all. I hope, sinners who don't know Christ, see, I'm a sinner who knows Christ. But sinners who don't know him, you better understand right now what I'm trying to tell you. All your sin, all of your mockery, all of your scorn toward our Lord Jesus Christ, all of your castigation, all of your accusation against him, all of your denial of him, all of it you will remember. When you are in torments, you will remember. This is what Jesus is talking about when he says that hell is a place where the worm does not die. Some people believe that this is talking about the conscience. The conscience is always awake and aroused in bubbling sin of your past to the surface of your understanding and your awareness and what you're going through. You are going to know exactly everything that you have forgotten now. All your sin that you have forgotten about that you don't remember now, there you will remember it all because God will bring it to your remembrance. But for those who don't know Christ, there's nothing for you but thunderboats and the terror of the Lord. Paul said, Therefore, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. He didn't say, Therefore, knowing the love of the Lord, we persuade men. No. Paul said, therefore, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Some of you think this is a joke. I am here to tell you it is not a joke. It is not a joke. When I stop doing this, when you start, when you stop seeing this mug on this platform, unless the platform goes down, if you don't see me, you know I have gone to be with the Lord. To my last breath, I am here for you, my brothers and sisters, to encourage you to grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. All this talk about how God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life and how he wants you to do this, I have no more room, time for that nonsense. It is good to know those things, but Christians and people today aren't ready for that. So, what you need to understand is that the wrath of God is on its way. A tempest, a storm, thunderbursts, bolts, his wrath, his judgment will come uncut, unwavering, unsympathetic, because it is just. I'm just telling you the truth. You don't like this, go listen to Joel Olstein or Kenneth Copeland or T.D. Jakes or one of these other fake apostate preachers who have no interest in Christ whatsoever. They are stole soul stealers, soul killers. So back to this theme of purgatory. And in verse twenty six of Luke sixteen, Abraham says, Besides all of this, between you and me, or you and us, there is a great gulf fixed. So that those who want to pass from here, paradise, to you in hell, you cannot, nor can those from here pass to there. In other words, Abraham is telling this rich man, even if we wanted to come over to you, we couldn't. Even if you wanted to come over here, you can't. Because there's a great gulf or a great chasm or a massive space, a void that is so vast that the wicked can't go where the righteous are, and the righteous can't go where the wicked are. There is no purgatory. You are either with the people of God, and that is where you are housed, or you are with the servants of Satan, and that is where you are housed. And once you die, you are immediately placed in one of those places based on whether or not you embrace Christ as your Lord and Savior or not. And regardless of what your choice is, you stand on one side of this great chasm. You stand on one side of this great gulf. So that if you want to go to the other side, you can't. If someone from the other side wants to come to you, they cannot. You know what that means? There's no purgatory. There is no transitioning, there's no moving to a different part of the prison. Ronnie, my brother, I heard you. And I'm going to follow up and do exactly what you asked when I'm done. God bless you, brother. And I hope the best for you and your f your family. But I'm going to respond to your request. So now, there's no purgatory. There's no crossing over. There's no intermediate state for the intermediate. When you die,