The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Introduction to Job (Part 1 of 4)
What if your deepest losses weren’t proof of failure, but invitations to trust the God who governs even the limits of your pain? We open a new verse-by-verse journey through Job and strip away the clichés to see what this ancient story actually reveals about righteous suffering, resilient faith, and the sovereignty of God.
Together we explore how Job predates Israel’s covenant, temple, and rituals—yet shines with living faith. That context matters: it shows that worship and integrity are rooted in the character of God, not external systems. We talk about the famous “patience of Job,” then press deeper into themes often missed: Satan’s real but restricted agency, the difference between lament and accusation, and the subtle danger of defending ourselves when we should be honoring God. The conversation highlights Psalm 34:19 as a compass—many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers out of them all—challenging prosperity assumptions that equate blessing with ease.
You’ll hear thoughtful insights from the panel on comforting friends without presumptions, learning to sit with unanswered questions, and cultivating endurance when explanations don’t come. We examine how Job’s friends weaponized theology, why quick diagnoses harm the hurting, and how God’s final word reframes the whole story: he doesn’t owe us reasons, but he gives us himself. If you’ve wrestled with suffering, wondered where God is in the chaos, or needed language for faithful grief, this episode offers a clear, grounded path forward.
Listen, share with a friend who needs hope, and if this journey is helping you see God more clearly, follow the show, leave a review, and tell us what truth you’re holding onto this week.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Christians. Good evening. I hope you're having a good Wednesday. And um I trust your week so far has been good as we get to this hunt day. Um I have to say it's been a while, about a week exactly, since I have been able to enjoy the fellowship of those folks that I get to enjoy so much fellowship with. But I'm grateful to be back after this week. And um I have to say I've been having withdrawals. I've been having withdrawals. So we got through our first complete exposition through an entire book of the Bible. That was the book of Galatians. And today I'm going to embark upon a new book of the Bible to go through verse by verse. Um, and that is going to be the book of Job. The book of Job. Now you're talking about a book that is about 42 chapters long, so it's a long book. A lot of the a lot of the ground we're gonna cover will cover multiplicity of verses. But in order to break things up and to keep things interesting, I will also intersperse in between um sections of going through Job with dealing with um topical treatments and other books and whatnot, just to keep it interesting, which I'm sure it will be anyway. But anyway, so that being said, I'm gonna start with the book of Job. And I want to start by asking some of the people on the panel, um, what is the overall understanding of what Job is about? Because people generally have a typical understanding about Job, but I want to see if there's anything that goes out of the ordinary in terms of what people think Job as a book is about and the lessons that it intends to convey. So I'm gonna start with my sister Lisa. How are you, Lisa?
SPEAKER_06:Hey, hey, gosh, I miss you. I miss y'all.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I miss being on here too, believe me.
SPEAKER_06:Oh man. Yeah. So Job to me basically is a story um that reminds us that hardships in life are not necessarily um because of sin. They're not caused by our sin. Wow. Sometimes we we go through things, um, they may be tests, but it just seems like Job's friends just thought he must have done something. He was cursed because of what he had done. And we know that that's not necessarily the case. So that's my take.
SPEAKER_04:That's a good one. That's a very good one. Brother Jeff, man of God, how are you?
SPEAKER_02:Pretty good, uh, stranger. But uh sorry for your loss and uh you know missed you. Uh I the the past Sunday you were on. I mean, Sundays, man, I you know, I spend all day in church just about. But uh anyway, my thoughts on this, I mean, you know, talking about the proverbial statement of the patience of Job, uh, you know, my my take on this is certainly the same as uh Sister Lisa, I mean, obviously, but you know, the other thing is that Job steadfastly maintains his faithfulness to God in spite of everything that happens to him, in spite of what he's accused of. Right. And I think that really strikes me as uh, you know, uh a central thing for this book, why it was included in the canon. I think it was the first, I think it was the first one written.
SPEAKER_04:It was. It's definitely the oldest one for sure. Absolutely. So his constancy in his faith is um is what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. So, brother, God's word, how about you? What do you think?
SPEAKER_03:About Job. I think Job is one of the best books in the Bible, to be honest with you, because of what he just said about his faith and how Satan also tempts the righteous and those that are find favor in God's sight, the elect, because as you know in other books it says that if possible, the powers of darkness will try to lead the way astray, if possible, the elect, which Job was an elect. And it also shows us the trials and tribulations that us of faith go through and are tested by Satan to test that faith so that we do not turn our backs to God like a lot of the Israelites did in the Old Testament.
SPEAKER_04:Amen. Good one, good one. I lost my pen. What I do with it. I can't find my pen, my favorite ink pen. All right. Um, Sister Candy, how are you?
SPEAKER_07:Blessed. Glad you're back, glad you're back.
SPEAKER_04:I'm glad to be back, sister. Glad to be back. So, what's what's your assessment about the book of Job? Some of the main takeaways from the book of Job before we even get started in it.
SPEAKER_07:Well, I mean, a lot of suffering that he's survived, but um, and the fact that Lisa and Brother Jeff kind of wraps it up with a lot of that, but I I look at it as the suffering too. Like he didn't blame God, it wasn't God's fault, but then it was a test of his faith, his loyalty, and his trust in God. And he didn't let his peers like or his family coerce him into or convince him that you know to blame God for the mishaps. Um he more or less and and I look at it like this is things that that we that we go through in the world, and people we see people wonder why good people suffer. And again, like like Sister Lisa said, she's like, um, you know, we suffer because what what do what does sufferings do for us with the Holy Spirit, you know, what it what what it produces. But then we also have to look at what Satan tries to do in the process, but God knows us because we are his. So he allows him to do everything, but he can't take our lives. So that's why it kind of makes me thinking about Job. It makes me go back to that scripture where um where he tells the rich man to go and get rid of all this stuff and then come follow him, you know? So, like, no matter what you have, your life is what what what is his. So everything else, you'll get you'll get back what God, as long as you know what I'm saying, we don't blame him for the losses and stuff like that. And there's probably more I want to say, but it's kind of like I know I don't have a lot of time, and I'm trying to like talk real fast.
SPEAKER_04:You said plenty, you said plenty. No problem. Sister Paz, what do you think of some of the takeaways that we're supposed to get glean from the book of Job?
SPEAKER_08:Uh, just personally speaking about what I took away from Job, uh, I think it's a great book, firstly. Um seeing that uh Satan can only like how Satan is still under the authority of God, right? He has to approach the throne of God and have permission to do what he does, right? Right, and that God uses these things to conform us into the image of Christ. So everything is working towards God's plan, so nothing can harm me. I think a lot of people put emphasis on the enemy as if he's some powerful being who can outdo God, and this shows us no, he's still under God's authority and God uses him. Right? So we see that Job goes through trial and tribulations, but again, it reminds me of the verse where it says um that God's power works great us in our weakness. Right, and Job was taught to fully depend on God, that his trial and tribulation produced endurance and character and hope. Um, and this is the same for all of us, and that we can have this stance on when we go through trial and tribulation, that we're to fully depend on God, and it brings us closer to God and not have that despair.
SPEAKER_04:Excellent, excellent one, brother Jeffrey. Encouraged the third.
SPEAKER_05:Well, good evening, Jonathan. And good evening, panel. It's good to be connected with you all again. Hope that uh everybody is well. Let's pray for our brother Jonathan. Uh how you feeling, brother?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, a lot better, a lot better. I'm still fighting it, I'm still fighting the cold part, but then my my back, I threw my back out again. Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, I had the you know, the funeral, then the cold, then the then the uh in the cold. I'm still trying to fight the the flu or whatever it is, and then my back is my pain, the back of my pain is crazy. But enough about me, brother.
SPEAKER_05:What do you what do you think about Job? Well, one of the things that I that always stuck out to me about Job is the fact that we found out that we find out rather later on in the writings that he had also a problem with pride because God eventually winds up asking him, Job, where were you when I laid the cornerstone for the entire universe? You know, and he job is questioning God as to why he did what he did, and I I think part of the book of Job is the fact that there's we learn from that, Jonathan, that there's going to be things and events that happen to us that maybe God just isn't going to explain why they are allowed to happen to us. God doesn't owe us an explanation. That's one of the things that Job finds out as the book goes along.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_05:He doesn't curse God, but at the same time, he he's wondering why God why. God is under no obligation to tell him. Right.
SPEAKER_03:That's true.
SPEAKER_05:And that and that's one thing we have to be remembering when we have our trials, God may reveal it for a reason. There may be times he won't. We just have to do what Job did. We just have to trust him.
SPEAKER_04:Amen, brother. Sister Hannah, your thoughts on what on what we take away from the book of Job. And what's your understanding about what we're supposed to learn from this book?
SPEAKER_00:Um, yeah, I well, good evening, everybody. God bless. Um I'm trying to put my five-year-old to bed.
SPEAKER_03:I'll be right.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, um, kind of like Brother Jeffrey said, um, just there at the end, it kind of makes us realize like who are we to question God? Like it puts me into like my position, like how tiny I am, how I'm not aware of almost anything. Um, one of my favorite, like most of my favorite verses, which like just shows us the great scope of God and and his awesome power um is from there. I love those questions at the end. And I think it gives me a lot of perspective too, whenever we see something going on in other people's lives. Like, we actually have have no idea why it's going on. So it teaches me how to stand by a friend and how my words really wouldn't help anything when it comes to like, oh, this is what you did wrong. Oh, this is why it must be happening. I don't know why it's happening. Can't tell you that.
SPEAKER_04:Amen, sister. It's a good one. Before I go ahead, I'm gonna give you Candy. You want to say something else before I went on? Moved on. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, I think um it also gives a better, deeper understanding of who God really is in this process of how everything takes place and how he ends up, like like what Brother uh Curgeon was saying when uh Joe was, when he asked Joe, like, where were you when I did this? You know what I'm saying? So, and then of course what it gives back. And then it's also like when we go these things and and we wonder why, and we question, like, and then we try to figure out like like Lisa said in the beginning, you know, it's not always because of our sins, especially when we're we're slaved by Christ, you know? So these things sometimes lean not to your own understanding of why it's happening, but trust God, have faith and trust in him for the process. So, again, as as children of him, we're hid in him, so we're protected. So don't question him either. Right, he's our father. Who questions their father?
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Well, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you something, everybody, something. I am not that I'm the one to be impressed, but I'm impressed. Because I went to I went around the panel here, and I totally received something, got something that I did not expect. Something I completely did not expect. There was one word that no one used, which is the one word that most people all use. Anyone who wants to venture a guess, what word was not used that is always used?
SPEAKER_06:Punishment.
SPEAKER_04:Nope. When we talk about Job, what what is what do you often hear more often than any anything else in terms of what we're learning from it or what we see Job going through? What is the one word that is always associated with Job?
SPEAKER_00:Is it suffering?
SPEAKER_04:Nope. Suffering is you.
SPEAKER_07:I'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm talking about the wow.
SPEAKER_04:Look, I'm dealing with the senior class. Let me let me just go ahead and say it. Patience. Patience is the one word that is more often associated with Job than any other descriptor. Patience.
SPEAKER_07:You say patience, but when I think about how he questioned and sat there and wished he would have never been born and all that stuff, it's like I understand what you're saying with the patience, and you're right. But whenever he does stuff like that, it makes me wonder was he patient in that in that particular thing? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04:Hold on, hold on. Let me say this. Let me say this. I'm I'm not saying that I wasn't saying that's a bad thing, just that he mentioned it. So I didn't hear it if he did. But here's the thing. My point is this. I'm saying that I was impressive that nobody did mention that because that is the easy, that's the go-to response. His patience. That's what I'm saying. When most people talk about Job, they talk about the patience of Job, the patience of Job, the patience. So what I'm saying is everybody here came up with a good list. Jeff mentioned the one thing that stood out with him was saying his constancy and faith. Job's constancy and faith remained. He remained faithful to God. Somebody else mentions that uh, I think it was uh uh Lisa was talking about how we see there that we that one of the things that we understand is that we cannot always look at a person's circumstance and judge them based on that. In other words, if a person is going through a what we might see as a downfall, it cannot necessarily be understood, and more often than not, should it be understood as being the result of sin when it comes to a Christian? And then somebody else pointed out that uh Candy brought out about that Job did not blame God, he did not uh falsely accuse God in any kind of way, that he was being tested, that he learned to continue to trust, and that good people suffer. And then Paz mentioned uh his inter his encounters or the relationship between what was going on between God and Satan being in the background of all of this and how God governs Satan's actions over his people. So, this is what I'm saying is a good thing that that you guys have all looked at a lot of things that are in the book of Job, that are in the book of Job that most people don't reference, don't reference, and not and certainly not in a prevalent way. Um, but more often than not, the common words that we always hear with reference to Job is patience. That's usually the number one thing. And it is, is a big part of patience, it's a big part of it. But what I'm saying is there's so much more to it. There's so much more to it because this book really is also, also, like every book in the Bible, is about God, about Christ, and it's about his sovereignty over all things. And somebody mentioned that as well. Um so this is what we're gonna we're gonna be you know be talking about. Now, somebody mentioned earlier about about Job. Now, we don't know, like the book of Hebrews, we don't know who the author is. Many speculate that that that Moses wrote that as well. I'm not sure about that. There's no account for that, and I'll leave that discussion to somebody that is more astute in apologetics, um, because I'm definitely, definitely not that guy. Um, but it is safe to be it is safe to assume, like the rest of the scriptures, it is part of the original, it is part of the canon of scriptures and is to be believed to be inspired by God as it is, to teach us the truths that we are to learn about God. Now, about Job himself, his name, depending on who you talk to, or you know, depending on how you look at his name, it is it has one of two or a combination of the two uh definitions, which is one, the persecuted one, his name means the persecuted one, and also it could mean one who returns to God, somebody who returns to God. So it his name is befitting of what his life was characterized by. And so it is such a it is such a unique thing that God has assigned so much about him and so much about us in the name that were given to the saints in the in the scriptures. Their names mean something, and I don't think that was by accident. I think it was intended by God to be that way, and it is a it is an exceptional way to convey the narrative of who God is and who his relationship is to his people and how he impacts his people and how they are influenced by his sovereign will. So when we look through the book of Job, we get we start to understand, we need to look at how it is he returns to God, what the setting is for his return, what his position was before there was this sort of distraction in his life that caused him to to, as we're gonna find out, Job has a problem. And the and and like all of us, we had many problems. But one thing that Job does throughout this story, from I think it's the fourth, third, fourth chapter on, up until we get to chapter 40 or somewhere around there, you find Job having these dialogues between his friends. But and they are telling him that the reason that he's going through these things is because of sin in his life. It is sin that is the cause of it. And so Job goes about to make his case to his friends that that was not the reason, that his intentions and that his actions and that his deeds were upright, and that he was led by God. But what Job, his mistake was, and we will find this later as we get through the end of the book, that his problem was not that he was wrong, but his problem was wrong in who it was he was defending. Who should he have been defending? He should have been defending God. Job was defending himself when he ought to have been defending the Lord, and this is what this whole book is about. You can be right about something, but when someone accuses you of something, and you can say, no, that's not the reason. That's not why it happened. That's not the reason. You may be right, but the problem you're gonna have with God is defending yourself as opposed to defending him. Jeff, uh encouraging service, you got your hand up? Oh, cool. So all I have to do now is wait a while. Wait long enough, there won't be no problem.
SPEAKER_05:I'll get it back here later. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:All right. So anybody else want to say something on that before I move on? All right. So Job, you know, this book, as I think we talked about earlier, Jeff mentioned it, is the oldest book of the Bible. Definitely the oldest book. And and you will find out that in this book, there's not much, there's not there's no there's not much talk about the old any of the systems that come under the patriarchy. You don't find a lot of this under in the book of Job. You don't find any references whatsoever to Israel. You find no reference at all to a covenant or to the covenant. You find no reference at all to temple worship. And yet we all know that Job was a man of great faith. He was a man of great faith. He was a man that had a proper standing before God, he was a very pious man in the eyes of God. But none of those things that most attribute to religious sanctity or holiness under the ritual of ceremony, none of these things were known by Job. Again, no reference to Israel, no reference to temple worship, no reference to a covenant whatsoever. What we get in the book of Job is a characterization of what it means to be godly apart from all those things. And we also understand that, and we see also in the life of Job that God has a purpose for Gentile worshipers. For gentile worshipers. Pastor, do you have something to say? I don't know what BRB is, so I'm thinking that may mean you want to say something. Be right back. Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't know what that was. All right, Jeff, man of God, go ahead. You were gonna say something.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, it just occurred to me, yeah, be right back. Uh it occurred it occurred to me that uh, you know, Job predates Abraham, most likely. Uh, you know, and you know, it just goes to show you that, you know, God had made that the people of God, you know, from down through Seth and down through Noah knew God. And so there were what this tells us is there were people like probably like Melchizedek, right, uh later on, but people that were not associated with the with God's call to be a people that knew God and worshipped him because they they always had. In other words, they didn't lose their religion, so to speak. Right, right. You know, they didn't yeah, you know, and and to me, it just occurred to me, and I'm thinking that that is really it's great. Because you don't because you know that it tells you that there are probably people like that all over the place that God had. God had people everywhere. Yeah, and then so I just wanted to share that with you.
SPEAKER_04:He did. Appreciate that. Wait, Meg, you were gonna say something or ask something.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the first thing I wanted to say is reunited and girls. But the second thing I wanted to say is, I have looked, I don't know if you know anything about this, but I've searched it for myself and I can't find anything. So I was looking through, like, I wanted to look at like Job's lineage and like where he came from. And I have the complete genealogy from Seth all the way to the Lord Jesus Christ. Where did he come from? Like what lineage lineage did Job come from?
SPEAKER_04:We don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, we don't. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we you know, we uh I don't know, I don't know that it says he was any line because he preceded all he preceded all the ones that were listed. If you see that it you saw it in, you saw it in Shem, Jeff.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just saying that given where he lived in the land of us.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean that's that would give you an indication, but um, but it doesn't say precisely.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:But that's yeah, it doesn't say precisely, but that would seem to be what it was indicated. Again, when it comes to the origins of Job, it's you know, I would leave that would that that would be something for some of these weightier professors in uh in terms of apologetics might have some better insight into. But I think that um uh what Jeff is saying is probably close to the truth. Um, so that's a good one. But I want to read a verse because this is like when we talk about what the book of Job is about, that's what we're talking about tonight. We're just sort of having just some casual conversation about what the book is about, what we expect to glean from it, what we should look to find in it. Um, but when you look at there there's one verse that I was able to pick out, and there's many that we could pick out, and I've got I picked one out of Psalm chapter 34 from verse 19, which says this many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them of them all. And this is to me the heart of this book. This is the heart of this book. And I would also, and you know, in every book that we go through, I will give you what I think, you know, what my assessment is. You may find something different, and it may be true as well, that you can call it the heart of the book. But this one I think tells a lot about what we're seeing in Job, many other afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. And I think that really, really encapsulates what the book of Job, you know, is about. And there was there's so many verses to look at. And I was looking at verses in the New Testament, too, that talked about the afflictions and trials, and all of those would be applicable. But um so this is what I think that the subject of the book is really all about. And it and it points out two uh two significant things that we really want to deal with, and we're also gonna see throughout the passage, and this is some of the things I the two things that I wrote down here. First is whether it is consistent with the justice and the goodness of God to afflict righteous, a righteous and sincere person, even to strip him of all of his outward, you know, means of all of all the good things. So the issue is how is it what we're gonna be looking at is reconciling how God can bring these bad things on us, things that we perceive as being bad things, we perceive as being bad things, and yet reconcile them to his goodness. And reconcile them with his goodness. And this is one of the things that is the most difficult for Christians to believe. And this is what has given rise, a misunderstanding about this is what has given significant rise to prosperity preaching, prosperity gospels, and to these preachers that they are teaching the exact opposite of what the book of Job is teaching. The exact opposite. Sister Candy, go ahead.
SPEAKER_07:I just wanted to read something because of what we're we're going over, Job. In 1 Peter, um I'm actually gonna go to chapter 3, verse 13 right quick. And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good? Right, but even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, righteousness' sake, you are blessed. Right. So do not be afraid for the threats nor be troubled.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but then I also like what it says in chapter 2, uh, verse 19. For this is commendable if wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me go to uh chapter 3 again, uh verse 21. It says, There is also an anti-type for which now saves us, baptism, not the removal of the field of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God? Angels and authorities and powers have been made subject to him. But then in chapter two, I like what verse 19 says. That's why I read that chapter three first. For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what credit is it if when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. So, and of course, we know I'm already just like 21. For this is to you who are God, because Christ.