The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Introduction to Job (Part 2 of 4)
What if your hardest days are not detours but the very road God uses to shape you? We open the book of Job to confront a widespread myth: that prosperity is the signature of faith and suffering signals failure. Through scripture, lived experience, and unflinching honesty, we trace how trials refine character, expose shallow theology, and teach us to worship without easy answers.
We walk through Job’s losses—health, family, wealth—and his stubborn refusal to charge God foolishly. Along the way, we examine our reflex to judge sufferers, learning from Job’s friends what not to do and how to offer comfort without suspicion. Key passages from Job 1, 19, 23, and 42 set the spine of the conversation, while James 1 and Romans 8 frame endurance, gratitude, and hope as essential practices. We also map the structure of the book itself—Job’s dialogues with his friends, the younger Elihu, and finally the Lord—highlighting that Job lived the story without the heavenly prologue we readers enjoy. That gap teaches us humility: sovereignty is certain, explanations are rare, and faith is forged in the dark.
You’ll hear a moving testimony of trauma transformed into a deeper grasp of forgiveness, a picture of ashes becoming something strong and bright. We challenge the habit of crediting God for promotions while blaming the devil for flat tires, and instead learn to see all of life—pleasant or painful—under God’s wise providence. The aim isn’t to romanticize pain but to recover a sturdy, biblical vision of blessing that can hold when nothing else does.
If you’re weary, skeptical of easy answers, or hungry for a faith that stands in the wind, this conversation is for you. Listen, share with a friend who needs courage, and if it strengthens you, subscribe and leave a review so others can find it too.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Also suffered for us leaving us an example that you should follow in his footsteps. So and it's funny because I got a lot of that you said about the suffering and stuff, but this past week's what that's pretty much what's been in my heart that uh he's been showing me in books and stuff. So it's like looking at what we went through and why we go through things like that. It's yep, it's not always a not always a bad thing, and then again, it goes back to seeking the good and everything that that we see and experience because there is good in it, especially that's true, that's true.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you, sister, for that. Appreciate that. So, yeah, you know, the the thing the thing is is that, and I was talking about I was starting to talk about this a little bit, because we live in a day and time where there is so much of an emphasis in modern pulpits that associate your success in this earthly life with sin in your life. In other words, these prosperity preachers they tell you that when you're having a hard time in life, it's because of unfaithfulness or sin in your life or whatever. They're always trying to convince you that if you plant more seeds with them, then you'll be blessed by God. And and I'm telling you, I really believe this with my whole heart, that the greater part of these people that preach this message, they are all liars. All of them. Anyone that tells you that that having carnal, earthly, secular blessings is happening, happens when you are are or or is exhibited as a result of your faithfulness, they are lying to you. Because what Job is what we're learning in the book of Job is that it is trials and afflictions, heartbreaks, grounds for mourning. These are the things that build the Christian character. These are the these these are the fuller's soap. These are the refiners' fire. Riches in this world have nothing to do with your your being faithful. Just like trial and hardships has nothing to do with you having a lack of faith. In fact, I would argue that those who get this the highest degree of trial and affliction are most likely those whom God has given the greatest degree of faith. That's the argument I would make from the scripture all day long. And the argument that prosperity preachers make will never will not be found in the scriptures at all. In fact, Christ said it was hard for a rich man, it is easier for a rich man to enter into heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. So there is no part of the scripture that talks about prosperity being the result of faithfulness. That has nothing to do with anything with your faith. Nothing to do with it. Zero. Brother Jeff, man, or encourage and serve you. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:Jonathan, I would imagine that Job's thinking about his wealth after he is restored is drastically, drastically different than it was before Satan was allowed to sift him. I would imagine, again, this is just my thought here, and you all may disagree. But I would imagine Job was much more careful when he was restored to give God even more praise, more thanks, more glory, more honor, and realized maybe also God could take it away again if he so choose or chose to let that happen. I think we can kind of read between the lines a little bit that that uh again that he may have had a problem with pride a little bit when God told him, hey, I'm God, you're not. So these things happen, and there may not be a reason for it. Right. That's right.
SPEAKER_03:So another thing that I want to look look look into is this, because when we read the book of Job, sometimes I think that we put ourselves in that position and we we wonder how we would be in that position. And I and I would venture, I guess, that many people, when they read the book of Job, feel themselves to be in that sort of ilk at a at whatever particular time in their life they may be reading it. But I mean, a lot of us feel that we have gone through a Job period to some degree. I don't think many of us have ever experienced what he experienced. I think that his case was very exceptional. But that's not to say that people haven't experienced it. I don't know. But it was a lot of tragedy that surrounded his life. And so illness, the loss of his family, the loss of his wealth, the loss of his friends, and and and what it put it what may appear to feel like God may be not looking kindly upon him in one way or the other. But in all of this, the Bible makes it very clear that Job never charged God foolishly. He never accused God in a false way or a foolish way. Never. He never did that. He never lost his faithful ground with the Lord. He never lost that. And the reason why I bring up how we may relate the Job story to ourselves sometimes is because what I want to try to get to add to that is how we may need to look at how we should be looking at our brothers and sisters in Christ. Because I don't know, and even as I'm talking about it, I don't know that I've ever taken that perspective in looking at what some other brother or sister is going through. I never made that direct connection. But one of the things that we learned from the book of Job, that we should learn from the book of Job, is that when a person is going through a particular set of trials, loss of job, loss of income, loss of health, loss of family. It is so easy for a lot of us as onlookers to question the righteousness or the unrighteousness or the sincerity or the hypocrisy of another person simply because of how the outward aspect of their life are being affected. And we start making assessments about how we think God is looking at them. When in fact, we don't know. We simply do not know. You may have, like I said, loss of job, loss of income, loss of health, loss of your wife or your husband, loss of a child, um all kinds of things, any number of things. And you look at a person in that situation, and it is easy for us to take the mindset that there must be something going wrong in their spiritual life. And think about it have you ever went to somebody who's going through all of this and and not considered that possibility? I don't know if I have or not, but it's certainly a question that comes into your mind. And sometimes a person can't express themselves when they're trying to explain what's going on and how they feel. And one of the things that we need to do, we one of the things we first we start asking questions about is how is your walk with God? And I'm not saying that's wrong. But what I'm saying is that what we need to do is when we're coming when it comes to trying to bring comfort to another person, that should be the goal to bring comfort. And it's difficult. We're gonna learn a lot about this book. Lisa, go ahead, you were gonna say something.
SPEAKER_08:Well, I was just gonna say I know a few brothers and sisters in Christ who are going through a tremendous amount of suffering, and seems as though they have for a very long time. And these particular brothers and sisters are the ones who shout the loudest for God's grace and his love and his goodness. So um, you know, it just gives me something to think about when I see them, and I'm I'm thinking, I've never looked at them as like what have you done wrong? I'm just thinking, my goodness, that you you just shout like he is he is their strength as low as they go, um, he is the one that gets them through, and they let the world know. So that's all I wanted to add. Right, it's just been an observation now.
SPEAKER_03:Right. So, anybody else want to add something to what Lisa was saying?
SPEAKER_07:I want to just read something actually here from the book of Job. I'm looking at it. Um, Job 23, 6. Will he plead against me with his great power? No, but he would put strength in me. Fast forward to 2310. But he knoweth the way I take. When he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
SPEAKER_03:Amen, sister. Amen. Great one. Go ahead, Meg.
SPEAKER_09:So I just wanted to give like a little heartbeat verse and just talk about it for a minute. I think that I think that another one in addition to what you said, um, would be in Job 121. And I see, and I think that like throughout this, the the book of Job, we see this come up. It says, Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. And I think that another part was my favorite in um Job chapter 42. And one thing that I see that, like it was a small verse, but then it it blew me up about it. It says, I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eyes see you. Therefore, I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
SPEAKER_06:Amen.
SPEAKER_09:Man, like could you imagine? Like, I've heard of you by the ear, but now that we're here, my eyes have seen you, like I know who you are. And this being the first book that was ever written to see in Job chapter 19 when he says, I know that my Redeemer liveth. Like I mean, that I will stand upon the latter day of the earth, and in my flesh I shall see you. And he is like that verse, and with so many others, while we're reading this book, is something that just lights me up to know that that we get to see as the readers of the word of God, we get to see the end in the beginning. And we get to see that going through trials and tribulations, that what the Lord said about Job, that Job did not get to hear. Job did not get to hear God calling him upright. Job did not get to hear him calling him righteous, but we as believers get to know what the Lord said about Job and how the Lord deemed Job. And when we go through trials and tribulations, we can see how the Lord views us and how he sees us when we're going through something. And it makes it easier for us as believers to go through these things, knowing what was deemed by God about Job. And man, it's just so refreshing. I cannot wait to dive into this book. I'm so glad you chose it.
SPEAKER_03:It is a great book because it is, I mean, the one thing about this book is that especially with this group, the group of folks, there's gonna be so much to talk about because there's so much in every single verse. It's a lot like Psalms and it's a lot like Proverbs in a lot of ways. But it's a really a deep book. And if you understand, if you can put yourself in the mindset of Job, um, it's gonna really shape your understanding about the word of God in a whole nother way. And I know that all of us, including myself, we're gonna get so much out of it that we didn't see the first several times around. And, you know, like some of us, some of us old guys have had read this book, I don't know, 100, 50, 100 times, 200 times, I don't know. But but there's so much here that you just continue to learn. Now we're gonna find out in Job that he's gonna be engaged in dialogue with different, you know, there's several different dialogues going here. Job is gonna have one between Job and his three three friends, Bildad, Eliphaz, and um Zophar. And then when he finishes with those three, he ends up engaging with another guy called Elihu. He's the he's the younger guy. And then he's gonna have his final dialogue or discussion with the Lord Himself. And so, but all of this starts, all of this starts before without in heaven, with Job having absolutely no knowledge of it whatsoever. And there's no indication that Job ever knew anything about how it all happened. We know about it because it was written. So, well, somebody had to know because it was whoever wrote it had to know. But what I'm saying is, as he was going through it, I don't know if he knew that this had transpired. He didn't know that, you know, I would render a guess that he probably learned at the end that this is what happened before. And I don't know that. I could I would I couldn't argue that point, I couldn't prove it, but I just assume this. But you have this invitation that God made to the sons of God to present themselves before him. And and and a lot of people say that, and again, I I won't argue this at this point as we're getting as we're starting getting started, but what happens is God says he invited the sons of God before him, and and it says, and people will uh will assume that Satan is one of those. Now, before you get all over me, just hear me out for a second. It says that the sons of God came before God to see who would test Job, and then it says that Satan came in among them. So there's no, so I would argue in a different message that Job was not, that Satan was not constituted a son of God. And yet, this is what is often, this is how Satan is referred to by so many people, and I don't see in Job, and I'll when we get to that passage, I will deal with that. But I don't think that he was a s was what is what was considered a son of God. And then notice it says that he, Satan, came in among the sons of God, accusing Job, and basically accusing God of putting his hedge around him. Putting his hedge around him and protecting him from what he would like to do to him, from what Satan would like to do to him. So we go on with the whole book, and the and the primary uh theme and purpose of this of this book is that God is showing us and teaching us in this book that uh we need to vindicate his wisdom and we need to vindicate his righteousness and his goodness, even in and especially when it comes to the afflictions that we must go through. So, and here's what I mean people always associate bad things with the devil and great things with God. Agreed. Wow, and this is the problem. So if God wakes you up in the morning, you wake up in the morning, you eat something, you get sick from it. You gotta go to work, you get a flat tire on the way to work, nobody starts to pose you over, somebody drives by, splashes the water all over you. You get to your job, you have to come back home, you know what I'm talking about. The same types of things. And so what happens is when we have these problems in these trials, and you guys can have your own, make up your own stories in your mind about the things that can happen or draw from your own life. But what I will say is this we don't start attributing to Satan what God is doing. But remember, God is the one who is whatever happens to us, it is by his sovereignty, by his sovereign decree that it happens to us. And what we are supposed to do is not look at this as this is the devil's work, this is because this is what so many people do. But what are we supposed to do? We are supposed to vindicate the wisdom of God in having this trial and this affliction occur to us, happen to us. He is the one that permits it. He told Satan, go. You can't touch his life, but you have my my blessing to go. Go do it. Do whatever you want to do, you just can't touch him. You can't, you can't take his life. But do whatever you want to do. Imagine if you heard this today and that tomorrow this is going to start for you. Even though you're a believer, this will be something very difficult to want to want to face. But the Christian needs to understand that everything that happens in our life, and I mean everything, comes from the hand of God. There is nothing that comes outside of his governance, and his governance is his providence over us. God is the one who does it all. Whatever affliction, trial, or tribulation that we go through, it comes from God. It comes from him. And this is what we need to understand, because this is the very thing that we need to learn from this book, and this is what we need, this is how we need to vindicate God whenever it is happening. So when you are going through this trial, because people will say, Oh man, I got God blessed me today. I got I got promoted, I got a bonus, or I, you know, I got a new car, I got a new house, um, my wife's pregnant, or whatever. You go, man, God, this is a blessing from God. How many people sit down and really think and contemplate that all they're going through that is bad is a blessing from God? When was the last time you ever sat down and really thought about that for a second? That everything that happens to you that is ill is a taking it for a blessing from God. Because this is what the book of Job is all about. This is what it's about. Vindicating him when you are being given the assignment to go through the fire. Sister Paz, go ahead.
SPEAKER_06:I just wanted to read a verse, if I could, from James. That says, Count it all count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. I think this is important to know why we go through trials and tribulations. Again, it's a testing of our faith, but we see the glory of God in the fact that He's actively working in our lives and brings us out of these. And I think there's another verse in scripture where it says that God will never let you be tempted beyond what you can.
SPEAKER_03:Um 1 Corinthians 10 13. Yeah, above what you're in. Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And that he offers he always offers a way that you can endure beyond beyond it, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_06:Nothing that God ever does is and what just with what you're going with is the enemy can overcome you at all any point. It's all to conform you into the image of his son and to see the glory of God.
SPEAKER_03:Amen, sister. Dead on. Brother Jeffrey, go ahead. Encourage and servant. Jeff, encourage and servant. Go ahead. Okay. Anybody else want to add in? Oh, go ahead, Jeffrey.
SPEAKER_04:Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04:I had things turned off. This brings us to the question, though, Jonathan, where do we have the most growth in our life? When things are easy and well, or when things are difficult and hard? Now, what's our natural tendency? If we had our choice between picking one or the other, what would be our natural tendency to pick the easy one? Okay. But where does most of the growth occurred? When we've got our back up against the wall, we're out of options, and we have nothing left except to turn loose of everything and say, Lord, here it is. You use it, use me, show me what you have for me. Don't you think Job got to that point? You've taken everything from me. My family, my everything I have, my livestock, my home, everything. I'm covered with sores from head to toe. Amen. What are you trying to show me? That's right. And how am I going to be better or different because of this after it's over? I can guarantee you one thing. Job, like I said earlier, had a much deeper reverence and love for God when he was restored than he did the first time he was wealthy.
SPEAKER_03:Not only that, but I also think that the other the other folks that he was talking to had a better respect for that. Because remember, he told God told uh Job to bless them. Yeah. Right. He had them blessed them later on. So even they had to get, even they had to like um be shocked because of what job would happen to him after, because God gave him a double portion of all that he had before. Sister May, go ahead.
SPEAKER_09:So I I say this now as a healed uh person, but you know, from me being essayed as a as a child for four years of my life, I can honestly say with as much confidence in the Lord God Almighty that I have, I don't regret anything. And the reason that I can say it is because the Lord has shown me forgiveness in a way like I have never experienced. And in my life, it has been He has been able to show me what it looks like and how the Lord forgives, not like we do, but like He does. And to me, that blessing is insurmountable of what has come from such ashes that there was. And I I can honestly say, you know, I've been through some things in my life, but I honestly regret nothing. Being in the place that I am with the Lord and my journey is something I think that we can all look back on, no matter what we've been through, and say, glory to God, you know, in the highest hallelujah praise that we can give, because that's what he does. He turns it all, all good. The word of God says, what the enemy meant for evil, God has turned it into good. And he has and he will and he will to come, every single thing. And man, it's just powerful.
SPEAKER_03:Yep, it really is. It really is. So we know, so when we when we read in this book, and like I said, I'm I'm anxious to get started on it tomorrow. Um, but um as we get to this, we find out that Job is not getting, he's not being punished for hypocrisy or or or uh anything bad like that. He is being, as we said earlier, we we we mentioned earlier, he was being refined. His faith was being refined, his faith was being increased. And so, and so it is very easy to to come to these conclusions that it's it's all about dealing with hypocrisy, dealing about dealing with wickedness, dealing with sin. But in Job's case, we don't see this at all. Like it's different than what we saw with King David or King Solomon. Very different, even different from Moses and some and some of the other guys. Not saying that Job did not have those kind of problems, but this part of his life, this part of his life narrative is what God chose to bring forth to you know for our benefit and learning. But here's what I want to point out about another thing about this book that we should get from it. It is not a book that deals with so much with as Christians, it's not so much about why we suffer, as much as it is about how we suffer. And this is what makes the Christian different than others. So, what we need to do when we read this is to have in our mind to the to the extent that we can remember that this book is supposed to teach us and ought to teach us not so much about why we suffer, even though there's a part of that, and we see some of that going, we saw that in in the first chapter, the opening chapter, when God is dealing with Satan. But this is not dealing with us at the human practical level under the auspices of God's providence. But this book is really about not the not the why we suffer, but how we suffer. How are we to suffer? How? So let me ask, I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna go around and ask everybody, um, how do we, how is it that we are supposed to suffer in the words of scripture? How are we, how do we, what are some of the ways that we smart under God's rod? In other words, how do we handle the chastisement of the Lord? And this doesn't need to be something long and drawn out, it gives you it give you in a word, but what are some of the the things that would characterize our understanding what the what the message is in terms of how we deal with affliction, how we suffer. I'll start with brother God's word.
SPEAKER_02:We endure just as Christ did. We endure to the end. Of course. God's will is, whether good or bad, we praise him and endure. That's over.
SPEAKER_03:All right, endure. Brother Michael, what do you think? How do we how do we smart under God's riot rod? How do we submit to his chastisement?
SPEAKER_01:Self-examine.
SPEAKER_03:Self-examination. Self-examination, introspection.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Absolutely. If it's chastisement, then we need to see if he's disciplining us for anything. And be grateful that he is disciplining us, because if he doesn't discipline us, then we're not one of his children.
SPEAKER_03:Well, what you said, brother, is right on the key, is right on the point. The part where you're saying being grateful when it happens. That's a big part. That's a big part. Being grateful for it. I mean, imagine you know, suffering and going like, oh, thank you, Lord, for that. But this is what this is about. And what what Brother Michael just said is a big one, being grateful for it. Sister Hannah, what do you think?
SPEAKER_07:We would do it with hope. Romans 8 24 and 25 says, For in this hope we are saved. Now, hope that is seen is not hope for who hopes for what he sees. But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
SPEAKER_03:With patience. And there's that word again patience. Brother uh Jeff, man of God, what do you think? What do you add to it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh, you know, I've studied Job for many years, not to sit brag on it, I'm just saying that when when my the greatest tribulations of my life have come, I knew I knew God's sovereignty. I knew that all good and all bad is either caused or allowed. I mean, all bad is either caused or allowed by him. And it's for his purposes, it's for my benefit and uh faith. Basically, when I suffer, that's when I want to speak about God even more. Right. Because uh I want to proclaim that the one I serve is like, I mean, that's that verse in Job 15, though he's slaming, yet I will trust in him. I mean, that is a key verse that I've I've I've really grabbed on to, especially the last six or eight years. I mean, you know, as I told you in my testimony, it seems like every time I turn around, I mean, even lately, Sunday morning I get in my car to go to church, it doesn't start. Yep. Nobody's around. I don't know the neighbors, I got jumper cables, but I don't know any neighbors, so I call triple A and I miss church. And and then then uh I switched from Xfinity to ATT. They build, they somehow build my account again, even though I get it. So there's somebody in Xfinity that's that's fraudulently charging. And I called today and I'm having to get a debit card for the second time in four weeks. The second time. I've already had to get one one time for fraudulent charges. And I'm sitting there going, okay, you know, this is how it's