The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Exposition of JOB 1:1-5 (Part 2 of 4)
What if your decisions in public places are preaching a message you never intended? We explore the unsettling and liberating idea that holiness includes avoiding not just sin, but even the appearance of it—because our lives are read long before our words are believed. Starting with Job’s portrait of integrity, we follow the thread through practical choices, the shaping power of God’s attributes, and the Spirit’s quiet work of redirecting desire so that righteousness becomes not only possible but beautiful.
As the conversation unfolds, we decode the numbers surrounding Job’s family—seven, three, and ten—as biblical signals of divine completeness rather than mere statistics. That lens opens rich connections to restoration, inheritance, and the significance of names that whisper light, fragrance, and beauty after suffering. We look at wealth and witness side by side: Job stands as the greatest of the East, yet his greatness is measured by reverence, not accumulation. From there, we turn to Jesus, who set aside His glory, embraced poverty, and demonstrated power for others, not for Himself. The result is a radical reframing of success that pulls us away from optics and toward obedience.
Throughout, we ask practical questions for gray areas: Does this align with God’s character? Will my choices confuse people about whom I serve? Is my motive love for God and neighbor? We reflect on “guilty by association,” the wisdom of Proverbs, and how the Spirit tutors our conscience to choose clarity over compromise. If you’re hungry for a faith that is both thoughtful and grounded—one that treats numbers as windows into theology and daily decisions as acts of worship—you’ll find fresh traction here. Listen, share with a friend who wrestles with gray zones, and tell us: where do you draw the line, and how has the Spirit helped you keep it? If this resonates, subscribe and leave a review to help others find the conversation.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
From evil. He intentionally turned away with from it.
SPEAKER_07:That's right. Avoided, sisters, Sister Mariah said, departed. Everyone has been right. He has been right. He despises it. He he he avoids sin of all ills and and elements. And he avoids gross sin, especially. But here's important, here's an important thing that I think that um, because I'm I'm hoping that everybody here hears these things and thinks, how do I apply this to myself? How can I be this person that Job was? Because he not only did he avoid gross sin, but here's something else that we need to point out. He avoided every appearance of it. Every appearance of it. Now, let me say something about this for a second before I move on to verse 2. We have to understand that the appearance of sin, having the appearance of evil, in many respects is just as bad as the act itself. We have to understand that as believers, we are ambassadors for our Lord. And we should not even put ourselves in a position to where we have or exhibit the appearance of sin. And here's what I mean you can do certain things, be in certain places, and not be doing anything wrong. But just by association, it gives others the appearance of sinful person or sinful affiliation. And just because you didn't do the act, but people walk away because we are witnesses for our Lord and his life, just because if people walk away with the fact that you are associated or affiliated doesn't absolve you from guilt to some degree. Anybody else?
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna say uh they say you are the company that you keep, right?
SPEAKER_07:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. If you're with someone, and for example, my uncle went to this situation, he was with some people that had guns and robbed a place. He was in the back of the car asleep, but he also went down for it, so you're just as guilty.
SPEAKER_07:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:And and see, and I'm gonna say something, brethren. That's what I was looking for, guilty by association.
SPEAKER_07:That's right, and and and I'm gonna say something, brethren. I think that this is one of the most gross errors that so many of us believers make. Absolving ourselves from the sin of those who sin in our company. And so we need to understand that if you go to like let me let me let me put it bluntly. Let me put it bluntly. You could be in a strip club. Now, I don't know why anybody would think that they should be, but I'm I'm not gonna say that there might be some reason why you might end up there for whatever reason. But what I will say is this it will appear that you are there for unsavory activities, and no Christian ought to be seen in such a place, and not just places like that, places that you feel are less egregious in your mind, you have to be able to judge between a place where you find acceptable and that you believe to be unacceptable to God versus what you feel is unacceptable to you, because so many Christians will say, I wasn't doing it, I was there, but I didn't do it. And so we need to be model citizens, not so much as this world is concerned, even though we need to be model citizens in this world, but more importantly, what drives whether or not we can be model citizens in this world has to do with us being model citizens in the kingdom of Christ. First and foremost. Brother Chris, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Brother Jonathan, okay, so look, now when with you saying all of those things, because it took because while I was waiting, but as I was waiting, you said all that stuff, and that insinuates that you have to have an understanding of the personality traits of God in order to everything. How would you know what would be or what wouldn't be unless you had certain personal or you knew the personality traits?
SPEAKER_07:Right. Yeah, you you you you need to be familiar, like you said, personality traits or the attributes of God. Yes. And and when you understand his character, it should do much to drive how you carry yourself and how you behave yourself. I mean, it's sort of like when you when you have, well, we all have parents. Now, if our parents were disciplinarians as they should all be, and as we should be if we're parents, there's certain ways that a child will behave in front of their parents where they will not behave that way. I mean, there's a certain way that pick the children will behave around others where they won't behave around their own parents, assuming that their parents are true, godly disciplinarians. Sister Meg, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:I there's a verse that says, He that it's Proverbs 28, 26, he that trusteth in his own heart is a fool. But who whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. So trusting in our own emotions and our judgment rather than God's word is folly. It's foolish. And so there's there's so many were um places in scripture where it talks about fools.
SPEAKER_07:Right. Absolutely, absolutely. Uh, brother Jeffrey, encouraging servant. You made it yet? All right, he's probably still driving, so I just want to make sure I give him a chance. Brother Jeff, man of God, input. What do you think?
SPEAKER_06:Well, I I think uh, you know, this is uh it's pretty good stuff. I mean, the thing is, you know, I mean, fear, uh, I lean on the reverence. I mean, although it does say that, you know, fear not doing that, you know, the man that can take your take your life, fear is the one that can cast your soul into hell. And that's God. We have to remember that. That's the edge of reverence, knowing that he's so powerful and that uh he's so awesome that you know we're like just performing. But on the other hand, his grace and mercy and love, which are also attributes, assurance that he loves us like a heavenly father. Right. A father, like an earth, no more, I mean, no less than an earthly father. I mean, yeah, I respected my dad, you know. I mean, he he never abused me, but when he said it, I mean, my dad was 21 years in the army, he went to Korea and Vietnam twice. When he said something, you know, to the man was this is short aside. Uh-uh, on Jeffrey, they were having BS words, and one of them was Braun Strong. My father had a Braun store with two locally clusters. You know, I never asked him how he got those. But it had to be bravery. And he didn't mess with my dad. But he but you know, the thing is he was a very kind man. Children loved him. He was a very kind person, except he was stern. And the thing is, I respected him. I was in awe. I was in fear of him. He he if I've got anything good in my personality today in terms of that, uh, it's it's due to my dad. So, you know, that's what that's what fear means to me. Fear, fear in God to the believer just means, you know, I am definitely in awe of him. I reverence him, I bow before him, but it doesn't mean I'm I'm afraid of him anymore.
SPEAKER_07:Right, I got it. I understand that being true. I think I think there's a lot of truth in that. Sister Candy, go ahead. Candy, you there?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I was gonna I was gonna respond off of what Chris was saying too, and what you were saying about uh being places and stuff. And it's like when you when the Holy Spirit is indwelling in us, what's he say he's gonna do? He's gonna cause us to walk in his statutes and commands. So that that when he puts it in your heart, you don't you'll end up like even if you do go, there's something about it that you don't want it, like you're not, you're out of place, like it sets you apart, and you you end up veering, and he keeps you from wanting to go and do those things with people, and he puts that distance between you and what's not good for you, and that's the beautiful part of it. He does it for us. That's right, he causes us to not want to do these things again.
SPEAKER_07:That's right, absolutely, sister. Absolutely. So now we get to verse two. Now you guess the ver we get to verse two, short verse. There were born unto Job seven sons and three daughters. Now, here's what I want to say before I call on Chris because I promised to go to him and see if he came to a conclusion about how to assess the fact that Job has seven sons and three daughters and what he thinks that could mean or symbolize. Um, but I will say this before I ask him that. And that is that Job, I mean that children, from the beginning of time, children have been the primary, chief sort of emblem of human success. Children. And if you think about it, it is very different today. From the time since time began, I mean, the first promise that God made to Eve was that she would have this heir that would bring salvation to the world. And he promised her that as a result of her losing one of her own sons. And so children were the primary token or emblem of God's blessing to humanity, to humans. And it's such a shame today that we sanction things in our society like abortion and things of this nature. I'm not gonna deal with that subject at this moment, but what what I wanted what I want to point out is this how far we have become, how far we have come, where we look at worldly, earthly, secular, carnal success in the form of money and things and material things, more so than we look at children. And it's a sad thing because here's what happens when we have children if we are godly people, we are able to, with God's blessing, to guide them into developing and inheriting a spiritual blessing, the primary spiritual blessing, which is eternal life. But now we have chosen to alter our affections and expectations and to give a new assignment to our ambition to be the accumulation of worldly wealth and to hand that down. But that does not go with you or with anyone when you die, and if you give it to your children when they die, it remains. But when you have children, this is the way God communicates his holiness, his divinity, his glory, all the things that we know about salvation in the eternal life that we teach them to obtain. And so, for all of you who have children, you have to understand something make it your priority to be to give your children the spiritual blessings that have eternal ramifications that tend to life, not pursuing the money. There are so many of you who will make excuses, and we are all guilty of it, to put our personal ambitions before the spiritual ambitions that we need to instill within our children, and most of us either personally in terms of our relations to our parents or our relationship to our own children, if we have lost the opportunity to do this for our own kids. But there's never too it is never too late to understand these truths because you may have a grandchild or great grandchild that you get to pass down this understanding that we have. So now, brother Chris. Yes, sir. Okay, seven sons, three daughters.
SPEAKER_02:You brought up the significance of seven sons and three daughters, right?
SPEAKER_07:All right, so you you brought up a significance of attaching a significance to the numbers.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Now, it it first you it takes me all the way forward to the seven churches. Okay, and then it it takes me into the other aspect of the the three godheads. So or or the birthing, the the the power to bring forth offspring. Right, and that and that's in the three, and that's in reference to you know, you know, the Holy Spirit and the authorities, the the the the authoritative power or uh principalities that the Holy Spirit wields in the seven churches. Okay, so that that's what it I can't uh that's the first place that I go in terms of understanding that scripture, and that though that was indicative of that. And this is the main reason the churches are saying to the Holy Spirit much in the same way. Hey, look, come into me, right? And and a desire to have the fruits of the spirit operating in their lives, right? And and these things, love, you know. I mean, I mean, which is the base, right? Right, uh, and so this is the that that's uh the very first thing that comes to my mind in reference to it. Not only that, but it's all but also fruitfulness, right?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, but the children, the children themselves, they they they are his his fruit. So I agree. I think what you're saying is absolutely correct. No disagreement with what you said just now. And and look, let's face it, there are many ways to apply these things. Um, Lisa, let me come to you now. I want you to say everything that you've been that you've been typing.
SPEAKER_04:Well, if you I was saying the seven sons, the number seven, the three daughters, they totaled ten children, all of those um in they represent divine completeness or perfection um in scripture. So, like three, the trinity we talk about all the time, seven, you know, seven days in creation, you know, that all of it. So it's so good. I was going on to the sheep next. 7,000 sheep, sheep, those were real sheep, but we we are sheep. What do we say that in Revelation 144,000 um will be saved? And just just the numbers, it's all it's beautiful, it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_07:It is, and and I and I like that. I like both answers. And and and um, and I I I highlighted yours because this is exactly what I have in my notes. That it is that combination of seven and three, which it which attaches in the number three divinity to completion or perfection. And so you see that. Now, we're you you know there, I don't believe for one instant that there is a coincidence in these kinds of things because God is always drawing our attention to these kinds of things to reaffirm in our minds and our understanding the truth about him. He's always bringing things to absolute perfection, and he is always bringing things to perfection because he is divine in nature. And the one thing that I did not have in my notes was toting this number of 10, which is also signifying completion. And so this is a really good assessment to have about it. And when we see three and seven, we we should look at these numbers among other numbers, 12 and 10, they mean something. They mean something. 40 means something. So when we see these things, it's a constant reminder of us to reflect on the personality of God and like Chris mentioned earlier, the attributes of God. It brings us to that whole idea, He, because He is divine, He also is the one that produces only that which is perfect and complete. And it's just a blessing to be able to recognize it because throughout Scripture, as we all know, we get reminded of it on a regular basis and a continual basis. May go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:So I wanted to add that too, but then when you uh on the number 10, I think it's really significant because like there were Ten Commandments, there were 10 generations from Adam to Noah, and 10 generations from Noah to Abraham. So so it represents the like the completeness in the human experience, but also when you get down to like their names, right? It's very interesting. I don't know if we get to their names, but um their names are very significant. Did we go to their names yet? No.
SPEAKER_07:Whose names?
SPEAKER_06:Um, you shared that with us before.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's in Joe, and that's in 42. They he names their names. Gemini, Kaziah.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we haven't got we haven't got that now, but why you want to you you kind of want to go through it real quick?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So so Gemini means daylight, and Kaziah, um Kaziah Kassia, um, it's the horn of beauty. So it they they represent light, fragrance, and glory. So it's symbols of restored grace and beauty after suffering. So it's it's really interesting. Um, and they're usually not given an inheritance inheritance among their brothers, so it's symbolizing grace and equality, equality, it's foreshadowshadowing the new creation that we have. So we are all God's children and share equally in his inheritance. So I just think it's pretty neat with that, too.
SPEAKER_07:Absolutely. Um no, that that's that's something good, and we can we can elaborate on that more when we get to it because you're right, the names do mean something, and God didn't waste any, he didn't waste a single word, he didn't waste a single word in the scriptures at all. They all have relevance, even down to the names and the numbers that he uses to to enumerate whatever it is that is being enumerated. There's a reason for it. And and these are the things that we that we as believers should seek to sort of extract from the from this word, because there's so much out here that feeds the soul when we continue to look at it. And uh, and I'm sure that as everyone goes through these things, there are gonna be many things that you're gonna that are gonna jump out at you, and you're gonna just be blessed by it, and hopefully you'll share with us and bless us all too. Yep, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:So, and I know that we're kind of jumping ahead, but like with his daughters and his sons, I it represents eternal. They're them eternally. So while they were doubled, they were doubled eternally because he had them first, and then in the end, he had a total of 20. Because he didn't double his children, but he doubled everything, but he literally did double his children because the children lived in eternity with the Lord.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, we talked about that last night, and that's what we're gonna deal with when not only when we get to that chapter, but even before that, when we deal with what he talks about in Rome, in uh, as you brought up last night in in uh verse night or chapter 19, when he talks about seeing the Lord in his flesh, because and I think that has a lot of bearing on terms of what Job understood, and when God said that he would double his blessing, he did that. But if you read the scripture as it is right now, you might not, at first glance, you might not recognize that he fulfilled that with his children. Because for many years I didn't, and I'm not saying everybody else, that means everybody else wouldn't, but I didn't for sure. I had a hard time reconciling how come if he if God promised to double everything that he that he had, how come he didn't give him, how come he only gave him seven more sons and three more daughters instead of 14 sons and six more daughters? But as you stated properly so, because the first ten kids that he had never never died. They're going to be resurrected. They they were alive before God, even though they had died um prematurely from the way humans look at it. So in verse chapter three, or sorry, verse chapter three, in chapter three, in verse three, his substance was also, in addition to his children, seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, five hundred she asses, and a very great household. So that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. Now, here's here's what I here's what I think about this. Because certainly it is clear that the word of God wants to make it clear to us that Job had tremendous and great wealth. But I don't think I don't think that it was solely laid out for us to just focus on the wealth part in and of itself, but to focus on the character of Job in spite of the wealth. Does that does that make sense? In other words, like it is rare to find a man to be as wealthy as Job was. And it says here in verse 3 that at the time he was the greatest men, the greatest man of all the men of the East. And I think this is significant because what we what we're what we're gonna learn about Job is that it wasn't about the wealth, but about how he handled that wealth, how he handled it. Sister Kenny, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I think back to the verse that talks about um where Jesus left what he had and came and was basically poor so that we could be rich.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And then he says he's the greatest man of all East. So that represents Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_07:Right. It does, it does. Now here's something here's something else I'll add.
SPEAKER_03:Um it wasn't about to me, the possessions and stuff isn't about the materials part of it and the physical. To me, it represents that spiritual richness. That's right.
SPEAKER_07:It would it, I agree. It was God is showing us that this man, in spite of the great wealth that he had, as we read in the previous verse, that he was a man that was upright, perfect, eschewed evil, and feared God in spite of all his wealth. And you rarely, you rarely find wealthy men like that. And I think this is what God is showing us. Um, Sister Joni, let me ask you a question. What else do you see? So we see that Job, we all know the story of Job. We know that he starts off with his great wealth, and we know that he has it all taken away from him. So, in your mind, how do you relate this as being characteristic or a type of price?
SPEAKER_05:Well, he he lost everything. It would have put him in a mindset of oh wow, I'm trying to put this together. Um like I don't know. Jesus, he gave up every there we go, right there. Jesus gave up everything, and so did Joe.
SPEAKER_07:What did he have? What did Jesus have?
SPEAKER_05:He had well, I'm not sure what you mean.
SPEAKER_07:Take your time. What did Jesus have?
SPEAKER_05:He had he showed us that we could have eternal life.
SPEAKER_07:No, what did he what did he himself have?
SPEAKER_05:A father in heaven?
SPEAKER_07:No, no, no. What we're talking about, Job was a man who was wealthy and then lost everything. Now, by contrast, relate that to Christ.
SPEAKER_05:Christ really didn't have a lot.
SPEAKER_07:Did he?
SPEAKER_05:Well, uh, I mean physical property.
SPEAKER_07:Somebody want to help out here? I'll help.
SPEAKER_06:As it says, as it says in Hebrews, I mean, he came to earth with and laid down his glory to become like a slave. That's what he gave up.
SPEAKER_05:Well, his father in heaven would make that make him rich.
SPEAKER_06:Right, but the thing, the thing is that when Jesus became a man, he gave up all, he put aside all his glory to be like one of us. Those are those are all the things that he had that he gave up.
SPEAKER_07:That's right. He gave up all of his Jesus Christ, he gave up all of his prerogatives as God Almighty. He was rich and became poor for our sakes. Am I right?
SPEAKER_02:He even highlighted that with Peter. He said, Peter, go go out to the water and get these coins. He said, Hey, listen, tell me this. If the owner of the house has the house and his son comes in and says, and then a stranger, I'm paraphrasing, then a stranger comes in and says, who is gonna have to pay to stay in the house? He said, the stranger. He said, Don't worry about it. Let's go get the coins out of the fish and take it in. Because he owned everything. How you gonna charge the Lord a tax for everything that was created through him? Was his statement. But yeah, I hear you.
SPEAKER_07:Sister Candy, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:It's like when Jesus was born, he could have stayed in a castle because he was a king, you know. But again, he came, he could left his glory. He came, he lived in poverty so that we could be rich in him. And that's what everything in that first little section that we're going over tonight, when Satan takes it from him, it's like him sacrificing every bit of not just what he left left when he well, yeah, that's even better because that's what he left when he came to the earth in the flesh. Not the meeting, the sacrifice on the cross. Right. Man, that comes later, I know, but hey.
SPEAKER_07:So so we read here in in Philippians chapter two. Everybody is familiar with this. Christ, being in the form of God, did not think it a robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation. And he took upon himself the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. And being found fashioned as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto the death of the Christ. I mean, death of the cross. What Christ did, he gave up all of his prerogatives in terms of his divinity. And not that he didn't have power accessible to him, he gave up the use of it for his own personal benefit. You did see him perform miraculous things on others, but you didn't see him using his prerogatives as God for his own personal gain while he was on earth in the flesh of a man. Sister um Are you go ahead?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was gonna say so from the verses of um that we've already read where it says Job um turned away from evil, it just reminds me when uh Satan was tempting Christ with Um, you know, all all the stuff of the world, and he rejected it. It just reminded me of that.
SPEAKER_07:Absolutely. Uh Candy, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:You're saying that it's like um when he came when he came in the flesh, though, he was man in the flesh. And the only way he could do those miracles was to show us what God can do in man through uh through man. That's that that's so beautiful. Oh my goodness. Right. No, there was something else I was gonna say, but oh, I can't remember.
SPEAKER_07:All right, if it comes to you, just come just throw the hand up there again. May go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:I I want to say it like in at the end when it it was the men of the east. The east is super awesome to do a study on, but I wrote in the comments and said the story that began in the east ends in the east because the Lord Jesus returns from the east, and it's a literal complete reconciliation of God's entire plan.
SPEAKER_07:Okay, all right, Sister Candy, go ahead. You want something you want to you for you remember what you forgot?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was supposed to go with what I said, but it's basically he came to he came to serve, not to be served. Right, absolutely. But he was serving God the Father.
SPEAKER_07:Right. Yeah, he was he was the servant, and he was a servant, and he made himself poor. I mean, he was he was in a manger, he he he did, he had a regular job, he was a normal guy, he built tents, you know, he was he was a carpenter, and so we see that this he that divinity and the and the kingly authority that he came here with was not something that was something to be observed the way we observed kings and and um wealth and power and position. He redefined what that should look like having that kind of power. And he said, My kingdom is not of this world, my kingdom did not come with observation or outward show. It was a very different type of a kingdom that he had, one that he continues to build into this very day. But make no mistake about it, we are in it today, but when he was here, he was not in his glorified state, he was in the state of a common man with nothing common about him in terms of his perfection and his deity, which was never apart from him, but it was something that he laid aside, which will be even more difficult to do from a human perspective because what happens with man when we get any amount of power or or or wealth? What did we always say about a person who has it all? Somebody's always saying it went to their head. And it always does. It very rarely does not. And this is what we're seeing with Job. He is not the person who has all the wealth that he had and it went to his head. And this is what his friends are gonna make the case about, and we're gonna find out as we go through this that.