The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Exposition of Job 1:6 (Part 2 of 4)
What if the most unsettling line in Job is also the most comforting—that even Satan acknowledges the hedge God sets around His people? We open the text and follow the thread: God preserves, God orders, and God limits. The result is not a cold system but a warm promise for fragile hearts.
We walk through the heavenly council where the “sons of God” present themselves and an intruder arrives among them. That scene reframes how we think about evil and suffering. Permission is not abdication; it stands on purpose. Trials refine faith rather than waste it, and the boundaries of darkness are drawn by a sovereign hand. Along the way, we challenge a common assumption about how God knows the future. Scripture’s pattern shows decree before foreknowledge—God knows because God orders—giving substance to perseverance of the saints and real assurance when life buckles.
From there, we connect Job to the wider arc of redemption. Adoption began in eternity, not at conversion. Jesus’ language of lost sheep across Israel and the nations reveals a people chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. That truth does not dull evangelistic zeal; it steadies it. We pray, plead, and persevere, knowing the Shepherd finds His own. We also untangle confusion about the “sons of God,” clarifying the role of angelic messengers and highlighting the unique intimacy believers enjoy in union with Christ—nearer than angels, held firmer than our fears admit.
If you’ve wrestled with legalism, feared losing your salvation, or wondered whether your pain has a point, this conversation aims at your relief. Expect a clear-eyed look at Job, practical analogies for providence, and a sturdy hope that does not deny sorrow. If this helped you breathe easier, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review so others can find it too.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Sure. But Satan says he is only this way, God, because you protect him. Even Satan knows this. So I emphasize this several times because this is something that I want to, I hope that I can firmly establish this in your minds. The truth of this. Because this is why we preach, and like my brother Kai says, this is why we rest in the sovereignty of God. Because we need to understand that it is because of him that we are preserved in grace. This is why, whatever term you use, eternal security, perseverance of the saints, uh, once saved, always, whatever you want to call it, that is what it is. I prefer the perseverance of the saints. God is the one who causes us to persevere in the faith. He's the one who does that. And what we will see here, and what we will see here, is not only does he preserve us in him, not only does he preserve us in him, he provides the means whereby we do it. And even when we suffer, even when we suffer as we are about to see Job begin to undergo, we will also understand that this, as we discussed in the last two sessions, these sufferings, even though they may be at the hands of the devil himself, they are ordered by God. They are ordered by God himself. And why? We said firmly, it was to establish us more firmly in the Lord by his refining grace. His afflictions, the sufferings that he sends our way, are for our refinement, for our purification, which leads to us having a better understanding of our thrice holy God. So I had to take time on this because I want this to sink in to everyone, to get this into our minds. Right now we're seeing the divine counsel of God working from heaven itself, from heaven itself. And if the devil knows that it is God who keeps a hedge around his upright people, his people, what is it do you think Satan wants most for you not to understand and not to believe? The thing he wants you not to believe the very most is that God is sovereign in your salvation, that he is your preserver, that he is in control, as Sister Lisa said, that he is all in all. God is all, as Brother D.T. says. Maria, the goodness of God. Brother Jeffrey, encourage and servant.
SPEAKER_03:Go ahead. Yeah, Jonathan, I think there's often times the enemy will come against us, and I know in my life, he's tried to convince me that my life is simply a series of random events that are connected, and that I'm just drifting without him, while yet God oversees everything. Right. He knows where I've been, he knows where I am, he knows where I'm going. Now let me ask you this question, brother.
SPEAKER_04:Go on, man. Because this is how this is how I wanted to help shape the language of my brethren in Christ. You you said in a trifold manner what God knows.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_04:But let me ask you this question. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:How does God know? Because there's nothing he doesn't know. No, but how does he know?
SPEAKER_04:We know he knows all things, but how does he know? Because he's God. That's not how, that's not why, that's not how he knows. Yes, it is how he knows from a natural standpoint, yes. But what I'm asking you, when things happen, how does God know that it is going to happen? He permits it. No, that is not why.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:He does permit it. But how does he know? How? Why does he permit it?
SPEAKER_03:Good question. You got me spoken. A couple of people said it already.
SPEAKER_04:All right. He ordered it. Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. It's not just, of course. Right. This needs this needs to be the first, the beginning, the first fruit of our understanding, the divinity of God. Everything that He that happens in this world is ordered by God, is decreed by God. Is predestined by God. And then is done, as Mariah says, by his foreknowledge. And his foreknowledge is not just a is not simply knowing, but it is it is his it is his decree that he cares about beforehand. In other words, his foreknowledge has a lot to do with what he, that the fact that he has a decree that he loves, that he that he loves and that he intends to execute. But the issue is simply this, brother, and it's not a it's not an attack. It is to help us understand the reason why God knows all things is because he ordered all things. If he didn't order all things, then he can't know all things because that would mean things were left to chance that he did not know yet. Does that make sense? Disagreement? Sister Lisa, go ahead. Yes, it makes sense.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, sorry, Jeffrey. I was just gonna um answer the question at the time. Um, yeah, but you yeah, God is sovereign. I that's what we just got have to remember that even in the darkest of times, He caused it, He ordered it. We gotta figure out what we're we're to learn from it or what it's supposed to do for us. That's right. All things are for the good of those who love Him. Right and are called.
SPEAKER_04:Brother Jeff, does it make sense? Does it make sense, Brother Jeff? Me? No, encouraging servant. Jeffrey, you're there.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I'm there. I was in the other room getting something to drink. Okay. Makes perfect sense. It makes sense? Perfect sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so it look at it this way. You get up in the morning to go to work, I don't know, four or five, six o'clock, seven o'clock in the morning, whatever time you everybody goes to work. If you set your clock, you set your clock the night before for eight o'clock in the morning. So how do you know what time you're getting up tomorrow? Because you're the one that set the clock. Right. So this is a way of looking at it. And so, and so God is the one that orders all things that take place. And this is what this is what we must be able to glean from what we're seeing here in this opening, in this verse of um, in verse 6 in Job, and as we start to move on. And the whole idea is to is to convey that there is nothing that takes place by chance, but everything happens as a result of the determinant counsel of God. In Acts 15, 18, it said, Paul says very clearly, known unto God are all of his works from the beginning. The beginning of what? From before time. From before time began. Sister May, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:So another way you can put it is that like he's not, God is not bound by the past, the present, or the future. Okay, that everything is eternally present before him at all times. And one of my favorite verses is Isaiah 46, 10. It says, My counsel shall stand and I will accomplish all my purpose. Everything happens because God has willed it to happen.
SPEAKER_04:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:God knows things because he planned all things, nothing surprises him. One thing that's interesting too, though, when when we're looking at these verses tonight, is that when Job, when in in uh Job, it says, the Lord said to Satan, have you considered my servant Job? You see, Satan did not initiate the conversation. It was the Lord that started it. And it was the Lord that all of this happened. He was he came in submission to the Lord, and the Lord spoke first. He's basically, you will never speak before me. I'm gonna tell you this.
SPEAKER_04:Right, absolutely. And what you said, the key word and what you just said was the word submission. Even the Lord him, even Satan himself presented himself to God in submission. Now we see here that it says that the sons of God, it says that the sons of God came and presented themselves before the Lord. And by the sons of God, let me ask um, let me ask Brother Coz. Who are we referring to as the sons of God?
SPEAKER_02:And I don't want to destroy something else because I've wondered about that. And um, I would say that the I'm not gonna trigger that. I have uh I have something I can say. Um I'd say probably the angels at the moment. I would say the memory.
SPEAKER_06:Is it the fallen angels?
SPEAKER_04:No. What are the time? What's the time? Go ahead, Joni. What were you saying?
SPEAKER_06:Is it the fallen angels? Sons of God?
SPEAKER_04:What do you think?
SPEAKER_06:I think it is because they're the ones. Well, that's another story. No, no, this is the thing. They're the ones that made it with um our um women and had hold on, Meg.
SPEAKER_04:Go ahead, Joni, go ahead.
SPEAKER_06:And uh had the uh really big people, the giants are, you know.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Is it does anybody does anybody else fall in line with what Sister Joni is saying? No. All right, so let me let me let me make let me say something here. Because this is not to pick on my sister, because believe it or not, I the majority of Christians that I know believe what she just said. The majority of the Christians that I know, in all my years of being a Christian, believe what Sister Joni just said.
SPEAKER_06:I've even had uh had people stud and like teach Bible study about it.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Well, and this this is something that this is something that has happened a lot. I mean, people believe people really believe that this is taught in this is not only taught in churches, this is taught in seminaries.
SPEAKER_06:That's scary.
SPEAKER_04:So let me so let me let me let me clear this up. There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before God. All right, the sons of God. Now, the sons of God have always been those who are identified as his his servants or his ministers and his and his messengers. His messengers. Okay, his messengers, and they are always subject to him to execute his commands and to carry out his objectives in creation. Now, the issue with understanding if Satan and demons are are under that, are under that is where the debate happens. And when you look at the text here, you realize if you pay attention to it, it's not even a debate. So sons often is can also be exchanged as children, sons or children. But these but but sons are identified with his offspring, and not in the sense in which Jesus Christ is his offspring, but in the sense of what I already described. They are his servants, they are his chosen vessels to serve him. Christians are sons of God, the godly angels, they're sons of God, in the sense of what I just described. But we are his sons in a more illustrious manner and in a more intimate fashion because we are in Christ, and there's a special relationship that we have with God the Father that even the angels don't have. They don't have it the way we do. But notice it says this that the sons of God came in to present themselves before the Lord. And this whole idea of presenting themselves is more or less to give an account to to to think of it like a council to report to God, to report to him. Now keep in mind the language is used in an anthropomorphic sense. It is used to get us to understand in the way men's finite minds can understand that this was a type of a council, like we would look at a council where people get together. Think of it like a Congress, except not like the ones that we have. But it says here that when they came in to present themselves, the council was called together to present themselves, and when they got together, notice that it says in verse 6, and Satan came in also among them. He didn't come in there as one of them, but he came in as more or less as an intruder, as an intruder, someone who wasn't basically invited to this. But when the sons of God were called to present themselves, it is almost as if there is an element of restlessness on the part of Satan, and so he intrudes almost as if he wants something to do. It is hard to tell. But the reality is that he is not listed among those who were referred to as the sons of God. The sons of God came to give their account, came to report before God, like soldiers report to their generals or their commanders. And then it says, and Satan came also among them. Clearly, he's distinguished from those who are identified as sons of God. However, we needn't look further than this to ascertain this, even outside of the text itself. Could Satan really have ever been a son of God? This goes into prove more of the case that I have always made about the true believers in God were they belonged to Christ from before the foundation of the world. In other words, there was no time in eternity past where those who are chosen in Christ to be saved were never not in him. We may not have been saved until we were born and then born again after being born dead in sin and trespasses. However, we were chosen by the Father to be in Christ before the foundation of the world, which means that we were always his sons, which was how we are to understand the story of the prodigal son. He was a son who was lost and came back. Christ said he came here to retrieve lost sheep. And they are those who are in contrary to nature, in contrary in nature, nature to the goats, who are not said to be lost sheep or lost goats. There are only the lost sheep who are brought to faith and brought to union in Christ, union with the Father in Christ, and there are the goats who are not. Sister May, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:But in verse 11, right? Satan, Satan says to him, but stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face. And the Lord said, Behold, all that he has is in your hand. So Satan was Satan knew that it couldn't be his hand.
SPEAKER_04:That it had to be the Lord. What do you mean? Oh, that it couldn't be his own hand.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, because there had to be permission there. So then the Lord said, Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Right. So he gave that to him.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Absolutely. He did. Sister Mariah. I didn't get you get the comment from you. You had any comments you want to make at this point?
SPEAKER_00:Um, just what you were saying. Hi, everybody. It's been a while. Um, I'm so glad to be here as always.
SPEAKER_04:Glad to have you.
SPEAKER_00:You were talking about how we always were his, and something that we studied in the book prior to um this one, uh, Galatians 4, 6, and and because you are sons, yes, he sps he sent forth the spirit of his son into our hearts whereby we cry, Abba Father.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, that's that that's the reason why he sent his son, is because we were sons already.
SPEAKER_04:And see, I love how I love how you've already, even after coming out of Galatians, now you're you're making this connection from what we studied in Galatians to this one. And this is exactly what the Christian student should be always doing. And all of us are students, all of us. And so we can need this is how you find and establish and build continuity in our understanding of God's truth. Because what she said is exactly right. We come to faith because we are his children. And so this is an important thing. And when you go back to the other passage, when Christ says, when Christ says that he came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and he also talks about the lost sheep of the otherfold, and that he brings them together so that they become one family, these are all his sheep who were lost. And when he talks about the lost sheep that were outside of Israel, guess what? That includes, in other words, those who were not part of the Israel, you know, the nation of Israel, that includes not only Abraham, who started it, because Israel wasn't established until 99 years after he was born. I mean, after he was, you know, when he was 90 years of age, 99 years. But Job preceded even Abraham. And he was a type, an active, living type of the fact that in the future we will see the fulfillment of God's people being recognized even amongst the Gentiles. And this is important to understand God's people, his sons, which includes his sons and daughters, we were all in him from before the foundation of the world as a part of his divine decree and plan. There is this is why we, as frustrated as we may get, when those who we witness to and share it with don't come to faith, and some and most will never come to faith. And we, while we mourn for that, we also understand, we also understand that this is God's doing. He is the one who has determined this, and he has done it already. And we know we see this in Job. As I said, this whole thing starts with Job is not just to tell us that what he went through started in heaven, started in eternity past, but what he is showing us also is that this is the case for us all. So don't be one of those believers that says, oh, well, that was only for Job. That experience was only for Job. What happened behind the scenes up in heaven when it comes to me, that didn't, that's not happening to me. That was only for Job. This is what so many people who call themselves Christians always do when they hear something in the Word of God they don't like. Well, that's not for us. That's not for us in this time period. That's not for us, that's for the Jews. That's not for the Jews, that's only for these people and these people and that people and this time and this age and this, and that was in that book, and that book was written in a different language, and that word was different. This is what people always do when they don't like or when they can't reconcile the truth. And it is usually because they are unwilling to do so. And they are unwilling to do what Satan is doing here. He's doing something that Christians don't do. He's acknowledging in these in these in this very text that God is sovereign. Even he cannot avoid praising God. Even Satan, he can't avoid doing it. He has to give God his glory, and he gives him his glory by his submission. By his submission. There was a day when the sons came in among and I mean when the sons were presented before God, and um, and they presented themselves before the Lord with this ex this posture of accountability and with a posture of reverence. Posture and reverence toward God's holiness. To come before Him and to lay out whatever it is that they did up there and that they are doing up there now. We don't know how it transpires, we will know one day, but we do know that there is a sense, there is a sense in which God holds his counsel with his people. And we will experience the same exact thing when we get there. And it's not about God needing their report. God doesn't need a report. We know, as Brother Jeff said, that God knows all things, and we know that God has decreed all things. But again, I want to point out that God speaks throughout the Word of God in condescending language, condescending in the sense where it makes us able to understand. He wants us to have a picture in our in our head of how this is in divinity, and we understand it this way. That the Holy Ones present themselves before God and they give an account. And we will also, when the Christ returns, we will go before him, we will go before the divine tribunal, and we ourselves will give an account. And so we're up now in heaven still. We haven't left there yet, but we're gonna come down to earth real soon. But we're still in heaven, and yet, amongst all these celestial beings that have presented themselves and they're standing before their sovereign and great creator, and here comes Satan creeping in among them. He's not one of them, but he came in among them. He didn't belong there, but he came in anyway, and he was allowed. He was allowed to enter into a dialogue with the Lord. It wasn't his time yet. It wasn't his time yet. That even as early as this book, and what happens in this book, and even when it happens, even in we get the Genesis account of Satan's interacting with humanity, I would argue that in some fashion, some form, that I know that many people talk about Satan being this ministry of music, being this great angel, this good and godly angel. But I will challenge you there is nothing in the scripture that says any such thing. Sister Lisa, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, so this is the question, and I don't know, maybe you have an answer, maybe you don't have an answer. Um, kind of a two-part question. So we know that God actually allowed him in. He was uninvited, he had been cast out, and yet God allowed him in. Well, you could say that God ordained him to come in, really, right? I mean of course, everything.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_05:So that just came to me that okay, so God caused him to come in.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Do you think he still allows him in there today? And and you know, like let's all these thousands of years later, you know.
SPEAKER_04:I do, I do, I do.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, and okay, they just like see, that's so weird. I was just asking the question, really truly did not like seriously looking for an answer, and then it just popped in because he caused him to come in. He, you know, he basically summoned him, maybe without even summoning him, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you know, the the sovereignty of God, the sovereignty of God, as we as we've already been discussing, as I've been trying to hammer home, again, there is nothing that goes outside of his sovereign decree. Nothing at all.
SPEAKER_05:That's crazy. It's just crazy, it's crazy to think about. I mean, it but in a way, it's so, so, so comforting because we belong to him, we're his.
SPEAKER_04:That's why, that's why, Lisa, this is where the greatest comfort comes in for Christians, and this is the thing that the majority of Christianity rejects. Every single Christian that goes around promoting and teaching and believing that you can lose your salvation, this is the these are people, the people that go around saying you can lose your salvation, the people that go around saying if you don't get baptized by water, you're gonna be condemned. The people who believe that you need to not eat meat or you need to not drink coffee or you need to not drink Coca-Cola and you can't go to this place and that place, and you know, you got to go to this church, and you got to be a part of this denomination and that denomination, all these legal-keeping people. So these things, and like Brother Floyd says, all these people they teach that the salvation, because in all these instances, as Brother Floyd just said, in all these instances, doing those things are attempting to exercise the will of man in order to gain the blessings of God. It cannot be done. It's an absolute impossibility. And we see it here in Job. And as I said, I was getting on this point about Satan. Was he ever good? I'll tell you this right now, and I and and and I will I won't fight anybody who opposes me on this at this moment. Because we can deal with that in another day or later tonight or whatever, because I want to get to our our message. But but here's what I want to say to all of you. I challenge you on this subject of Satan. No, you know what? Before I give you the challenge, I'm gonna read something. And then what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go around and ask everybody how you interpret it. But I'm not gonna give my assessment or give an answer, especially for those who are listening, because I don't want anybody saying I said it. I want to get you to really look at this verse that I'm about to read. And I'm going to go around and ask everybody in as short and as succinct an answer as you can give, tell me how you interpret it for the benefit of me and all of us, all of us. In John chapter 8, verse 42. Jesus said unto them, If God to the Pharisees, if God were your father, you would love me. For I proceeded forth and came from God. Neither did I come here of myself, but he sent me. So, why do you not understand what I'm saying? It is because you cannot hear my word. Here's the verse I'm going to ask you about. Verse 44. Christ said this He says, You are of your father the devil. In the lusts of your father you will do.