The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Exposition of Job 1:6 (Part 3 of 4)
What if Jesus’ words in John 8:44 are not a riddle but a revelation of origin—“from the beginning”—that reorders how we see evil, truth, and the purpose of suffering? We take a slow walk through the text and trace how “abode not in the truth” is less about a fall from grace and more about a nature defined by lies. That lens exposes how easily we import folklore into Scripture, especially around Lucifer and Isaiah 14, and how quickly we hand the microphone to the accuser while forgetting the boundaries of God’s sovereignty.
We wrestle with the big questions head-on: Was Satan ever good? What does “fatherhood” mean when Jesus tells religious leaders their father is the devil? How do Cain’s violence and the theme of seed and lineage illuminate the spiritual stakes of truth versus deception? Along the way, we revisit Job with fresh eyes—hedges, permission, accusation, and the strict limits placed on harm—and we contrast performative demon-talk with the simple, powerful command to resist. The conversation keeps circling back to one bold claim: stop crediting Satan for what God uses to refine you. When trials come, they come through the hands of a sovereign Father who intends your faith to be tempered, not torn down.
You’ll hear raw stories of pride exposed, wealth surrendered, and the Spirit’s steady pull toward peace. You’ll hear how honest lament, like Job’s, can coexist with deep trust. And you’ll leave with a reoriented map: the adversary accuses, but the Father adopts; lies scatter, but truth anchors. If “from the beginning” shapes identity, then new birth shapes destiny. Listen to reset your view of evil and suffering, reclaim confidence in God’s governance, and recover the courage to let affliction do its holy work. If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs clarity, and leave a review to help others find these conversations.
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Notice these words. He, the devil, he was a murderer from the beginning. And he abode not in the truth. Why? Because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it. Now notice the terms. From the beginning, he was a murderer. He calls the devil their father. In contrast to his own father. And we know that the father is representative of the origins of his children, the beginning of his children. So when it says that they are of their father, the devil, and he says that the lust of your father you will do, and that he was a murderer from the beginning, and it says that he abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Meaning, if you flip it, that he if the truth was in him, he would have abided in that truth. But he didn't because the truth was not in him. So now, when we read this verse, and if you need more time to look at it, take a look at it. But let me start with Sister Joni. How do you understand the nature and the character of Satan when you read this, when you read these words of our Lord?
SPEAKER_03:Um, that he can only do what the Lord allows him, what God allows him.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. That's what you got out of verse 44?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I'm so sorry. I was uh distracted.
SPEAKER_04:No worry, don't worry.
SPEAKER_03:Is it verse 44 in the same chapter? No, it's not.
SPEAKER_04:John 8.44.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so sorry.
SPEAKER_04:That's all right. Don't worry about it. Um, Mariah. What do you get from this? John 8.44. Let me come back there. Brother Jeffrey. Encourage and servant. Where's everybody tonight? Brother Coz.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I'm with you.
SPEAKER_04:Alright, go ahead. You want to try it again?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you are of your father, the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth.
SPEAKER_04:So, what does this tell you? What does this tell you about him?
SPEAKER_03:That God didn't create him.
SPEAKER_04:That God didn't God did not create him?
SPEAKER_03:It says if God were your father, you would love me.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:He doesn't listen to God, obviously. He wanted to be God, and that's why God booted him.
SPEAKER_04:All right.
SPEAKER_03:Is that not true?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'm looking for something. I'm looking for something more relative. I want I'm trying to what I'm trying to get at is what does this tell us about Satan and his origins? Brother Jeff, go ahead. Brother, encourage your sermon.
SPEAKER_05:As the scripture says, and as you read, he was a murderer from the beginning. He is the father of all lies. He was a liar, thief, murderer, whatever description you want to attach to him. All right. That is who he is. Okay? And his people follow him. That's why Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. If you knew my father, you would know me. You don't know my father, you don't know me. Which and the truth that Jesus spoke to them, they flat out, as we know and we read, they flat out rejected. Absolutely. Where are those Pharisees now, Jonathan? No place I want to be. Exactly. And they're screaming the name of the one they said those words to. And the one that spoke those words back to him, ye are of your father, the devil. They're in where they are now, Jonathan, they are in complete agreement with his words of truth. Absolutely. All right. That's all I got from Sister Lisa.
SPEAKER_04:Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was gonna say I was reading, he was a murderer from the beginning. We know um that Jesus teached, if you have hate in your heart, you've already committed murder. This indicates obviously um he was never, um, he never um served God. He I would suggest he's like the angelic Judas created for a a purpose. Um, you know, we're all taught that we're we're taught that we're taught that the angels are all good and it was Satan's pride um that caused him to get cast out. Maybe it was his pride, but from the from these verses, um, he was a murderer from the beginning, wicked from the beginning, never um a servant of the Lord. So I that's what I have to say.
SPEAKER_04:I'm gonna come back to something you said. Uh Meg, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:All right. So notice how in the verse he said he was a murderer from the beginning. Who does this reflect? It reflects Cain's spiritual lineage. So you have the fatherhood, which is truth, which is the Lord Jesus Christ, then you have lies, which is the spiritual of the enemy. So Cain's spiritual lineage. But where do you see Cain in this? Because it says he was a murderer from the beginning. This is talking about this is talking about Satan. I understand. But you but Cain's descendants were the line of the serpent. It's the flesh.
SPEAKER_04:I get what you're saying. You get what I'm saying? I get what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02:Because it wasn't it it wasn't until Genesis 5, right? Seth's line, it says, then began men to call upon the name of the Lord, right? So I think it goes back further than than that. So I was just starting back at the beginning. But what what that verse is reflecting is that he says, You are of the devil.
SPEAKER_04:So let me ask you, so let me ask you this question. Let me ask you a question. So in when he says here that he was a murderer from the beginning, how are you defining the beginning?
SPEAKER_02:Well, the garden, he was he was a murderer from the beginning. Was it from the was it from the beginning in the in the in the in the garden? No, because it started in his mind.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I mean, the thing about it is if it started in the go in the garden, I mean, because remember, he was the one that was the tempter in the garden. So he came there with he came, he entered the garden with that nature already. So it cannot be starting with what he did with Adam and Eve. Would you agree? Yeah? He didn't, he didn't become Satan in the garden. He was already Satan when he entered the garden. You see what you see what I'm saying? But what I would what I am what I do agree with is what you're saying about Cain and uh and uh I get that.
SPEAKER_02:So I would just I think that it also talks to about total depravity, too, because apart from G regeneration, right, humans naturally carry out the devil's desires. So that is his nature. He is a liar, a murder murderer, and the source of all deception, right? Right. See, to reject truth is to reject Christ because Jesus is the truth.
SPEAKER_04:I get that. I get that. But let's look. I mean, just look, look, I just want to deal with this particular text, what Jesus is saying to these to these Pharisees.
SPEAKER_02:I think that he's literally their father.
SPEAKER_04:He he he literally is. Yeah, in the Jesus is telling them that.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think the Lord is lying when he's saying it. No, he's telling them that. I think it I think it originates from it it's spiritual, right?
SPEAKER_04:Is well it of course, of course. Yeah, but here's the thing He says in verse 42, if God were your father, which is what they believed, Christ clears it up, says, No, God's not your father. Your you he, my father is not your father, but you do have a father, and it's not my father. Your father is the devil.
SPEAKER_02:Ah boom, light bulb, hold on. If we do go back to Genesis foundation in 315, he says, I will put enmity between these the seed and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed. Those who follow the seed of the serpent is Satan, and the seed of the woman is the Lord Jesus Christ, those who belong to him. So the seed of the serpent is Satan. So that's reflects Genesis chapter 315. It does. Okay. And so from that point, it unfolds righteousness versus wickedness. Because Cain, because even when he said that in 315, Cain was the first manifestation of the serpent seed. I know, but here, Meg, what I'm trying to do is I don't want to, I don't want to jumble.
SPEAKER_04:I I think I can only think about the beginning, but yes. I don't want to jumble up what we're saying is when we talk about the beginning, we're we're we're not we're talking, we're talking about the the beginning from creation for sure. And we know that at the time of creation, God made everything at once. He made everything during that six-day period, he made everything. Where the demonic hosts were created in that period, I don't know. But here's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02:I got it. Now I see it. I got it, I got it now.
SPEAKER_04:So what I'm saying is that from, like Jeffrey says, from the beginning, this is who Satan was. And it says, and see, a lot of people make the distinction in verse 44 when it says that he abode not in the truth, they make an assumption that he was he was in the truth at one point and then he was not. That's not what this is saying. That's not what it's this that's not what this is saying. It says that he did not, when you talk about somebody's abode, what are we talking about? Their dwelling place. Their dwelling place. Or the heart. He didn't not abide in the truth. That's not where he lived. He did not live in the truth, he lived in wickedness. One thing that Lisa said that I really liked is when she made the reference of him being the angelic Judas. That's exactly what he was. And all I want to do here in this place is challenge everyone to look at this verse here, and from here go throughout anywhere in the scripture you want. You will never find, you'll never find Satan ever being a good angel. Never. Nowhere in the scripture. I challenge everybody, everyone listening, and everyone here in this panel. You will never find anywhere him being referred to by anyone, let alone God, as being good, righteous, holy, upright, nothing of the sort.
SPEAKER_02:I don't even think he was Lucifer. He wasn't Lucifer. I think people think that he was when they read Isaiah.
SPEAKER_04:But he wasn't. And Isaiah 14:4 tells you who that who that was referring to. Lucifer was his aspiration. But the only person that was ever referred to as Lucifer is when you is is referring to Christ when you get to Revelation chapter 22, when he's called the bright morning star, which is what Lucifer means. So the the so the the king of Tyre, you know, Tyrus, he believed, like Daniel, like Never Daniel's Nebuchadnezzar, that he was higher than God. Yep. And so this is what he was saying. This is what he the him being Lucifer is what he thought he was. He got so high on his own supply, as it were, he believed he was above God. He was above the stars. And this is what we need to under this is what we need to understand. This is really important. Uh, Sister Mariah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:I I'm sorry, I may be repeating something that you said, but uh I had to step away and pray for my brother for a second. But this is what he means when he says, Um, your your father, you are of your father the devil, for he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. So from the beginning means from that time and point that he was created, he's said to have been.
SPEAKER_04:That's right. That's exactly it. Can't be any put any simpler than that. That's what he that's what he always was. Brother Kaz, go ahead.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I was gonna add to it, and then you guys have covered it now, but I was gonna say that it says that he promoted falsehoods in every kind. So he promoted the falsehoods in every kind. He is the liar, he is the temptation that are carried on by his calling. It's his calling to carry on temptation. He is calling evil good. So he is the opposite of God's goodness from the beginning. He is the author of calling evil good.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So God created him that way, he was created that way, he was made that way. And that's when that's when it clicked when when Lisa said that he was a spiritual Judas because he was the son, quote unquote, of perdition who was destined for destruction, just like Judas was. Right. Thanks, Lisa.
SPEAKER_04:That was good. No, that's this is exactly the truth. And so, and and see, and here's the problem. Here's here's the problem for our finite minds, trying to understand. You know, because when you if you don't understand the sovereignty of God, if you don't understand his absolute sovereignty and believe it, if you don't understand it, you will never be able to reconcile this. Because the people who don't understand God's sovereignty are always saying, Why would God create Satan? And then they'll say something like, Well, that means he created evil. No, it doesn't. It does not mean that. It does not mean that. And I can tell you, I don't understand the inner workings of it. But I do believe what the Lord Jesus Christ says right here in John 8 44. Because when you talk about when he says that this is what he was from the beginning, there's nothing that precedes the beginning. There is nothing to precede the beginning. And so, and so, and this is what I understand, because you get so many people that oppose these things that we're talking about, but they'll tell you, oh, well, you know what, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but I just read the word of God. I just read the Bible, I just follow Christ. I just I'm just led by the Holy Spirit, man. I'm just reading the scriptures. You're reading out of the context. But I want to know if there's another way, and I'm open to hear anybody, I will I will leave five seconds of silence for anybody that can demonstrate to me what precedes the beginning.
SPEAKER_02:Nothing, because that's what Genesis started with.
SPEAKER_04:There's nothing preceding the beginning. There is nothing that precedes from the beginning. If you want to say that Satan was perfect in any way, he was perfectly wicked. He was a perfect weed. He's a perfect dog on God's on God's leash. But for whatever it is, understand this. He was made the way he that he was, for one, to glorify God and to be an instrument of our refinement. And this is what happens with Job.
SPEAKER_02:So were the angels always fallen?
SPEAKER_04:The fallen angels were always fallen angels. They were always bad angels, I should say. They were always bad angels. Now, when it talks about how they were fallen, it talks about how God's administration of his use for them was changed. So so, in other words, when they were put here to work in this in deceiving the nations. Because you see here in Job, in Job verse 6, right? You see here that that Satan said later on, you hear him say that he was roaming to and fro in the earth, doing whatever it is he could do, you know, trying to get into mischief. And then he's allowed into heaven to present himself, and he presents himself among the sons of God. But we also know that later on he talks about the scripture talks about him being thrown out. And so there's a sense in which his ability to um to be in God's immediate presence to some degree, it was altered. Does it mean that he can't get there? No, it doesn't mean that. But it also but it does have an implication of the fact that he does is not getting the allowances for many of the things that he is probably seeking to do.
SPEAKER_02:So when he oh my gosh, so much is going on.
SPEAKER_04:So we know, we know that he could not touch that Job. I mean, Satan tells us that the reason he could never touch Job is because God kept a hedge around him. But what did God do at this point? He removed it. When Satan entered into heaven with the sons of God, God gave him leave by removing the head. Said, go do whatever you want. You can do whatever you want to do as long as you don't touch him. Sister uh, who was it? Mariah, go ahead. Mariah and then Meg.
SPEAKER_01:So this is why it's said that not even the heavens are pure in his sight, right?
SPEAKER_07:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Comes back and forth, and he's fall in a fallen state, and he's still able to come up and accuse the brethren, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:That's right. He accuses the brethren. And he and he and he does that in a lot of different ways. But um, but lots of things changed, especially when the Spirit of God came down here, when Christ came down here, and then when he left and sent the Holy Spirit to dwell within us. So, so the administration of Satan's workings have been altered and restricted. He can't do anything to us right now. We are told in James 4 7, what? Just resist him. You have all these clowns on Sunday mornings in front of cameras claiming to be casting out demons when the scripture just tells us just resistance. Just resist. No pronouncements, no speaking to him, no giving him credit for our suffering. And notice what I said we should not be giving Satan credit for our suffering. We're gonna learn in this very book that the sufferings that we are given come from God. Why? For our refinement and for our perfection, to enhance our knowledge of God, to draw closer to Him. This is how our relationship and our understanding of Him improves. How? Through our sufferings, through our afflictions. This is totally contrary to the way the world works, and unfortunately, Christians have been tainted in a very gross and significant way by this teaching. Sister Med, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:All right, I just got light bulbs going off all over the place because I'm sitting here thinking, okay, so one more thing. This is what just came to me. So the trees that were in the garden, the tree of life is the Lord Jesus Christ, but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was Satan because he was already evil, but he was in the presence of good. He was the knowledge of good and evil because he was already evil.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you know, I don't know, you know, uh, you know, I mean, uh certainly I believe that there are certain truths that you can extrapolate from that, and and and and it wouldn't be wrong, to be honest with you. But one thing that what what did when God, when Satan tempted Eve, what did he tell her? What was the motivation that he gave her?
SPEAKER_02:That he could be that they could be like God.
SPEAKER_04:And what about God they would be like?
SPEAKER_01:To no good and evil. No good and evil.
SPEAKER_04:To no good and evil. To no good and evil. And God and so that was his that was his tempt, his temptation to them. God just doesn't want you to be like him. You know, and so and so, and she fell for it, and we all fell for it. And you know what else? We people are still falling for it to this very day. They want to know good and evil, they don't want to just experience it and taste it, they want to consume it, they want it to be them. This is what the world is all about. The idea of being a righteous person is not appealing. Let alone having their righteousness be something that you don't have to do, but it can be imputed to you just by faith alone. And so, men consume all that they can upon their filthy lusts and desires. The Bible calls it a bag full of holes. No matter how much you put in those pockets, it falls right through. Men want to build bigger and better barns, never knowing that their souls can may be required of them on any given night. But what we need to start with is understanding that we are intended to be sufferers. It is God's intent for us to undergo affliction. This is how he makes us like him. And to know him. This is what he uses to draw us to him. Men who get everything that they want. The Rolls Royce, the ship, or the boats, the trips, all the fancy stuff, the people who get all that, these things don't incline people to draw closer to Christ. Given the time, they will be carried away with the distraction that wealth requires.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, even in even in like the wheats and tares, like when you read that, like goats can never be sheep, and sheep can never be goats, and wheats can never be tares, and tares can never be wheat. Nope.
SPEAKER_04:Brother Caz, go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you. Thank you. Um, and man, this hits home for me because see, what you said is he twists everything, and we always think about where it's through in the suffering part, the suffering part. We look at that. But I'm here to tell you, and you said something that just stuck with me because he does this to refine it so we can see the truth and he refines us. And um, and through my life, this is this is where I'm at because I've had all those things, and I had those things, but then God has pulled, he's been pulling me away for six years, and I'm walking away from it. And but I remember what he says, Joe, man, you're such a giving person. You're so kind, you're so kind. Oh, you're this, oh, his good heart, he's good heart, but God just changed my life. He opened it six years ago, he pulled me away. And I've been I've been finding this faith, and I was still praying and praying and praying, but I was still looking at this pride piece I had, right? And then he opened my eyes, and I know I talked to you about this. He's just like, man, the Holy Spirit came over me and I was praying. I was praying, I said, Lord, what do you want me to do? What do you want me to do here? I'm just I'm trying to do everything. I give, I do all this stuff for people, I don't look for credit. And then boom, he's like, Joe, I'm gonna answer it for you. Trust me, work for mine. I want to change you. I know you don't want to be part of it. I know you're strong. I know you're you can do these things, but just trust me, I'm refining you. And I'm like, oh man, Lord, I see it, I see it. I can't turn it off now. I can't turn it off. And now I'm I'm listening to what you're talking about because there's a flip side. We always think about the people that are, but the flip side is like, you can have it all. You can have it all, but he calls you out of it. He calls you out of it because it's his purpose. And and then I have to trust more now because I have to let it go. And I'm not saying I'm letting it go, but it's this weird thing that you hold on to. And I'm just saying that, man, this is hitting home for me because he's refining me. I I know he's refining me and he's bringing me peace. He's bringing me peace from all those things. So I just want to tell you, man, it's just beautiful because I understand that we look at two sides all the time, the suffering part. Uh, we look at the suffering part of Job, but man, you have to look at the other piece where his heart was, you know. And so it's it's strength for me and it's beautiful. So I just want to say, man, it's just beautiful. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Man, that's good. I appreciate that word, man. It's real good. It's real good. And, you know, could to see that this, you know, because I've had certainly have my ups and downs, and you know, we all we all do. And this is this is this is this gives us a good spiritual reset. If we've been having, if anybody's been having troubles, look at this as a reset. Sister Lisa, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Um, well, I just wanted to add, while we're talking about suffering and how Job handled the suffering, look at his relationship with God. I mean, he he never cursed him, but he did, he was honest with his feelings. He went to him and he poured out, you know, wishing he had never been born and so on. And, you know, sometimes we think, okay, we're not gonna be um, you know, we have to be careful. And I think as I grow in my faith, God already knows what I'm thinking. So to hold it back is is kind of silliness in the first place. And I just love that Job knew that about God and he could, you know, he I just it's I think it's amazing. And it just reminds it's more comforting all the time to know in God's sovereignty, everything that happens in our lives is in his control, because Satan likes to have you believe that he's in control, and it's such a lie, and the and it's okay if the world believes that because the world is in his control, but we he has no dominion over us anymore. You know, it's God, it's nothing, it's nothing. What we suffer, God ordains, and oh my goodness, hallelujah. Glory be to God.
SPEAKER_04:Even before we came to Christ, all the things that we went through, all the sifting that Satan did of us before we came to Christ, even all of that was what God used as the means to bring us to himself. Now, listen, we we all know, everybody you know has has read the scripture that talks about that talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And when you look at what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is in the context of when when Christ is casting out demons, Christ said that they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by attributing to Satan what was being done by the power of God. So let me let me give everyone here a warning. You need to understand one thing first before I give the warning. Even the afflictions, and especially the afflictions and the sufferings that Christians go through, they come from God. So when you are running around here saying what Satan is doing to you, you are giving Satan the glory for what God is doing. You need to understand this. You really need to understand this. The suffering and the afflictions that Christians go through, these are coming from God. And when all these people are talking about Satan, I bind you and all this nonsense, that is stupid. Not only is it silly and stupid, but what you're doing, you're giving Satan credit. You're giving him the W when it is God who's doing it. And he is doing it for you, not to oppose you. Satan is the one whose name is being fulfilled in you at all times. It is to be your accuser, to be your adversary. And when you are saying that the suffering that God is giving you for your refinement, you're giving Satan credit for succeeding at what he is doing, you're giving him the credit. And we've all heard all these people use all these little