The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: JOB 7:1,2 - Man's Appointed Time (PART 2 of 3)
What happens when faith collides with months of pain and the comforts that once felt secure fall away? We dive into Job’s raw honesty, the gravity of God’s sovereignty, and the messy, necessary practice of lament that doesn’t abandon trust. Along the way, our panel shares personal stories of despair and deliverance, challenges easy answers, and asks whether yearning for relief is a failure of faith or a faithful cry from the furnace.
We start by naming the quiet dangers—career success, worldly comfort, and the subtle pride that grows when life runs smoothly. From there, we sit with Job’s integrity: a man called blameless who refuses to curse God even as he questions the point of his days. One voice argues Job should have counted it joy; another insists that biblical joy doesn’t deny grief but reframes it under God’s steady hand. The tension leads us to Gethsemane, where Christ embodies obedient lament: let this cup pass, yet not my will. That prayer becomes a template for faithful suffering—fully honest, fully surrendered.
The conversation takes a hard look at sovereignty. If God gives and takes, can we still call him good? We refuse to sand down Scripture, instead inviting listeners to trust a God who authorizes what he hates to accomplish what he loves. We weigh the difference between wishing pain would end and wishing life would end, and we talk about practices that hold you in the night: honest prayer, scripture saturation, accountable community, and a long view of sanctification. Job’s story isn’t a call to stoicism; it’s a call to resilient hope that holds fast when explanations run out.
If this resonates, share it with someone walking through a long night, subscribe for more thoughtful conversations, and leave a review with one insight that challenged you today.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Help my unbelief. I don't have all that I need in terms of my faithfulness to you, but where I lack it, Lord, help me. Help my unbelief. Unbelief just like any other sin. Just like any other sin. And so we we we ask him to help us. We hope it we ask him to keep us from having these distractions. Don't let us be deceived by worldly comfort. Um Sister Meg, your thoughts.
SPEAKER_00:I couldn't agree more. I think I think that throughout our lives we really start to understand these things as we get older and we have careers. And if those careers get great and you know the the things of the world start to pop up, I think it's very interesting to always keep in mind that this is all the Lord's. Every single bit of it is his. And the only reason that we have it is by his grace. Because if we ever get outside of ourselves in that moment, the enemy can try and come in and puff you up to make you think you're something you're not. So I just I just think that in these moments, like especially with Job, that Job is at a stage of where he's he's completely and utterly humbled by the Lord. I think he's really understanding too that it really didn't matter what he had. If it was to be taken away at any moment, would he still have his faith? And I think that that's those are the things that we need to reflect on as believers, understanding that if your health was taken away, if your things were taken away, do you have a transactional relationship with God? Or are we gonna be like Job and say, Lord, no matter what, I'm yours, and I know that the hedge that you have over my soul, you will never take.
SPEAKER_07:That's right. That's my thoughts. That's right. Um, Sister Lisa, your thoughts.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I agree 100% with you guys with what Meg just said, but I'm also reminded that any true child of God will not fail because of it is him who gives us our faith. He won't let us fail. So this is the good news. I mean, this is what's great news for me, and for all of us, it should be that if we're ever in a position such as Job, if we're truly children of God, it is his strength that will sustain us. It is him, it's not us at all. Right. So I I'm discomforted by that, you know.
SPEAKER_07:Absolutely, sister. Michael, what do you think about this part?
SPEAKER_05:Oh I'm I I think I'm dissenting a little bit. Uh I'm sorry. I hate I hate talking about this knowing how Job is later on. You know, uh I it's hard for me to divorce uh how Job reacts later on from this, and really just thinking he just wants to be done with it. You know, he he's tired of suffering, he doesn't want to suffer anymore. And uh it's leading to what what will happen with his uh his position with God and how God uh comes at him and how uh Elihu comes at him. So uh I I just see him as just wanting to be done with it. He's tired of suffering. He's never had to suffer before, he doesn't know how to deal with it, and he wants to be done with it.
SPEAKER_06:Right. So you so you think you so you don't think he's handling handling this right?
SPEAKER_05:No, I don't.
SPEAKER_06:How do you think he should handle it? How would you handle it?
SPEAKER_05:Well, well, as someone that's done some suffering this year, so uh I I I think we should take the New Testament's uh perspective of it and count it as all joy. But do you think but do you think that that not not one moment, not one moment did I want to just be done with this world? Not one moment did I wish for the shade of of the day or for my wages to be done. The day of work, I I've not yet wished to have my work here on earth done away with and just let me go, let me go.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean, I I get it. I you know, listen, if some people, some people can feel like that. I can I can say that I have times, I've had times in my life where I thought that that I thought that I've thought that, not in a sense where I want to go jump off a building, not like that. I what I see him going through is is is carrying this this weight and longing, and having this longing to be in the presence of his Lord. And I and I and I think and and sometimes that becomes more, I think sometimes that becomes more uh uh a desire of yours when you are afflicted.
SPEAKER_05:And go ahead. And let me say this. So I'm not saying I don't yearn to be with the Lord, but I don't when I yearn to be with the Lord, that's through good times and bad times.
SPEAKER_06:But how is that different than Job?
SPEAKER_05:And so I'm I'm kind of getting into uh verse three here, but uh I don't think our time here is worthless. And so in verse three, where he says, So I'm allotted worthless months, it's like his suffering so bad that it's worthless for him to be here. And so for me, there's no greater moment than in my suffering to let the light of the Lord shine rather than just let the light of the Lord shine when everything's hunky-dory down here.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Okay, I get it. Brother Jeff, encourage your servant.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Jonathan, I'm starting to get a little bit of a thought here that Job is a lot like Jesus when he died on the cross. He's saying, Lord, Lord, why have you forsaken me? Okay, now Jesus had all of our sins piled on him on the cross. We know that, and that momentarily separated him from the Father until the work was done. But Job here, as we know, has done nothing wrong, and his three useless friends have showed up, dog piling on him, making things even worse for him than they already are. So my thought is Job has got to be thinking, Lord, where are you? You you you're nowhere near me. I mean, you you've abandoned me. Right. Seemingly, seemingly.
SPEAKER_06:Right. All right, I'll see that. I I can see I can see that. This is this is an interesting uh uh segue. Um brother Jeff, man of God, what do you think? Do you think that do you think that Job was do you think that Job was that his end-it-all uh speech is contrary to his faithfulness? And Michael, I'm not suggesting you're saying that. I'm just asking Brother Man of God what he thinks. What do you what do you think is his is is going on in his mind? Do you think he really just wants to end his life for, you know, um yeah, which one are your thoughts on it?
SPEAKER_03:Well, sorry I'm late. I had a phone call. Uh also I may have to get off early because uh I gotta go to Ohio tomorrow and finish up with my uh ex. No problem. Uh but uh you know what I think is, and I'm not trying to dispute what Michael says. I it's just that I have been I've been where Job is. About 20 years ago, uh my job was getting real tough. They were cutting my pay. My wife had left me to move back to Missouri. Uh I owned two houses at once. I couldn't afford one. I was gonna have to let one go to foreclosure. And one day I thought, you know, why don't you just take that 45 pistol and just end it all? And uh it it scared me. Uh I ended up giving it to a friend. I said, Don't let me have this right now. But the thing is, my point is, is that I don't think you're being unfaithful to God by by saying how you feel. I mean, the thing is, we're human. I mean, even Jesus said, you know, if possible, take this cup away from me. And he knew it had to be. But yet he said that anyway, because he was also human. Right. And uh, as a human being, sometimes you reach the depths where you you're you're almost in just complete despair, but not quite due to the due to the grace of God.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And uh, you know, I I look at it as like I I think I can understand what he's saying. And uh what what I would do is probably not go there, there, it's gonna get better. I'd probably uh, you know, I would sit there and I would say, you know, if I if if it were me, literally me, I would say, I can relate, I've been there. You know, you know, and uh it, you know, you just need to well basically I just tell them, hang in there.
SPEAKER_07:Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_10:Um Jeff, can I sorry? Can I can I can I say something? I just came on the panel.
SPEAKER_06:Uh we we what we do is we we just we let we let me know in the comments that you that you want to talk and and I'll call on you. Is that is that okay?
SPEAKER_10:Okay, yeah, that's great. Thank you.
SPEAKER_06:All right, thank you. All right, so um uh Candy, go ahead. You have something to want to say. Candy and then Lisa and then Michael.
SPEAKER_08:Of course, you know me. I got a different whole different perspective. I say me Michael was talking. And it's what I see Job is going through is what people who do not have God will be going through. In scripture, where it tells us those who will be calling out for God to take their life and he doesn't hear them and they don't get it, and he's like, but they'll go through this, I'm sure probably times ten times worse. But I see it, I see a lot of the unsaved being represented by what Job's going through because it's about his fleshly material things, not his soul. His soul is saved, he has everlasting life, but for those who do not, this is what we got to look forward. Not we, but you know, this is what we got to look forward to when time comes. Because it's gonna be like this, but worse. Right all the time. There is no saving from it, right?
SPEAKER_06:All right, uh, Sister Lisa, go ahead. What were you gonna say?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I was just gonna say I have a little bit of a different perspective than Michael as well. Um I feel like we well, we have the benefit of knowing these things, um, knowing that we should rejoice in our suffering, knowing that God takes us um through our trials to to shape us and to mold us. And I think I think what we need to remember is that Job, his relationship with the Lord was a good one. I mean, it was God Himself who called him perfect. And so everything he's doing here is authentic. Right. He's crying out. Again, you know, Jonathan, you mentioned he's not trying to, he's not going to um take his own life, but he's asking God, you know, he has no idea. So I I I just see him like I it leads me to the understanding that I can really just say what's on my heart to God. He knows already anyway. So when we're authentic, I think that's that's the best the best thing that we can do is have that relationship where we can be authentic. And you know, he he knows anyway. And one other thing I'd like to point out just before I finish is we talked about earlier on in this study about the time frame, and here we're getting Job is suffering through months. So we don't know if it's years, but we know at least months of these things, and it's wearing on him. And so um, yeah, that's all I'm I just think it's that's we need to be authentic with the Lord.
SPEAKER_06:Yep, absolutely. I I I agree with you on that. Brother Michael, go ahead. I know you wanted to append or add to what you had to say.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so so uh what what Jeff just said about his story is exactly the same as Joe. And that's my point exactly, is the fact that Jeff himself says, you know, let me just end this suffering.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:That's what I'm talking about, is wanting that suffering to be done. And and there's not, it's not, I don't want to say a lack of faith or anything, but but we do have the hindsight of knowing that that we can be delivered through these situations and so forth. We have the hindsight of scripture, the full whole of scripture, to show us how we should suffer well.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Yeah, I I I I think like I I like I agree with what Brother Jeff said as well, except for the one part. Absolutely. Because when he when he talked about the part about ending his own life, I don't think that's I don't think that's the mentality Job has at all. I don't think that at all. And so you don't think he just wants his suffering done with? No, I do I do think that. I don't think he wants to do it at his own hand.
SPEAKER_05:I don't think that his heart not at his own hand, not at his own hand, right? But he still just wants it over with the water. Yeah, he does.
SPEAKER_06:He he does. He wants to, I think, and I think that what he really wants over is his suffering. And I and I and I agree with that. But I think there's, you know, I think there's a lot to be said. But this is actually a good, this is actually a very good, um, a good uh uh conversation to talk about the downcast soul, that that stole that soul that struggles with suffering and affliction. So, Mike, let me ask you before I call on the other lady that I want to call on, and then Mariah, um, when and when you when you're in Matthew 26, 39, you know, when Jesus says, Oh my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will. How do you see that similar to Job or different than Job? How do you how do you align those two those two things? What Christ says?
SPEAKER_05:I think that's a moment where we know we have a high priest that sympathizes with us because he knows the suffering is gonna hurt. But in your mind, what in your mind there's gonna be pain involved because he is now in the flesh. So that that's part of the having the high priest that that uh sympathizes with us because he knows exactly how weak our flesh is, how much pain comes to the flesh, and how much he was about to endure on the cross.
SPEAKER_06:Right. But uh, but so what I'm saying, what up but here's what I'm asking. How do you make a comparison between Job and Christ in this place when he when Christ says this? What is he when he says, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless I will, what is he talking about in your mind, what in your mind, what do you think he's he's asking God? What do you think he's talking about?
SPEAKER_05:The cross.
SPEAKER_06:Right. What I mean, I'm talking about in terms of what in terms of what we're saying is going on with Job, what do you see that's going on? In other words, is Job's anguish, uh, do you see anything comparable to that in what Jesus is saying in Matthew 26? You said similar similarly, or do you see it completely divergent?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I mean, none of us want to suffer physically. So uh there's a I guess you can say there's a similarity in that. I'm just saying because I know of what happens later on in Job, uh, there's a difference of attitude here. Uh Christ is showing his humanity in that moment. And uh not his disobedience, but his humanity in that moment, in the sense that he knows it's gonna hurt. He knows there's gonna be pain.
SPEAKER_06:So you see so you see so you see Job as being disobedient.
SPEAKER_05:No, no, no. I don't see him being disobedient at I I uh he's heading that way because I know what happens later on.
SPEAKER_07:Right, I hear you. I hear you.
SPEAKER_05:And and we gotta remember Job can continues to plead his innocence. And so not that he's thinking badly on God, but he's also pleading his innocence.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And there's a a point that that comes to a an end.
SPEAKER_06:Right. No, I think you're right. I think you're right there because we're we're we're because Job does have a problem. Um, but he he does have a problem, and that's what we're gonna get into in the later chapter. That's why, that's why I don't want to jump ahead. I like no brother. Listen, I like this kind of dialogue. I love it. So thank you for participating with me on it. Yeah, um, Sister Peyton, I know you're new. Welcome, sister. Um, let me give you your opportunity to speak up to us. What's on your mind? What do you think about what we're talking about?
SPEAKER_10:Well, I was just going through TikTok because I was mad and bored and I don't know, frustrated. Just want to get my mind off something. And I saw that you were, you had like a biblical name or something that made me think, okay, this is something I can listen to for a while. And then it was Joe. I was like, dang it, I don't, I'm not gonna lie, I don't really care too much for that story at all. Um, I have not read the that uh book in a while, but I remember thinking when I found out that parts of the Bible were translated wrong or maybe things were added to or taken away from. I was hoping Job was something they added to it because I don't I don't see God the Father that way. I don't see him allowing uh the evil one to cause um death. He's not the he's he's the giver of life, eternal life.
SPEAKER_06:That that would just totally so all those people that God told David to kill, who was doing that?
SPEAKER_10:David. Oh, I thought we were talking about Job's family or something.
SPEAKER_06:No, we're talking about in we're talking about in general. You you said you don't think God is like that. What do you mean? What is it that you don't think God is like?
SPEAKER_10:Well, I I just don't see that, you know. I feel like maybe if there really is a devil, he's a tattletale and he runs to tell God on me every single day. That's why I gotta repent for everything, right? So I don't see God as being not a God that would just let you take someone's family like Job. Now, there's other stories where there has been an alive mince, and I do believe that you know it may have been God's wrath, but I'm not I'm not gonna judge God like that.
SPEAKER_06:No, you can't judge a God like anything.
SPEAKER_10:So so that's so that's not even that's not even like I know he's a God of life, though.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so I know that for a fact. All right, so let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. So, what about Job do you not like?
SPEAKER_10:Oh, I I love Job. I love him as a person. I love the story that he was a wealthy man and he didn't turn from God and God replaced, you know, his uh monetary value and and whatever. But like you cannot take my son and give me ten thousand sons and me call it an even trade.
SPEAKER_06:Yes, he can. Much less better to trade. Sister, I don't know what Bible you're reading, but he can and does that every day. He can and he does that every he can and he does that. Listen, sister, listen to me for a second. Listen to me for a second. Because you're none of us, none of us have the ability or the permission to determine how we want God to be. I understand what you're saying. If you're especially if you're a mother, right?
SPEAKER_10:Oh yeah, he's he's the most high, right? He can do anything he wants.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, he can do whatever he wants. And so this is the this is what this is what the Bible is teaching. This is what the book of Job is teaching us. Do you remember how it all started?
SPEAKER_10:I just don't play. I know not to test God, but I fear God a lot. So that's probably part of it.
SPEAKER_06:I don't think I'm not sure I understand how you can how you can say that, and then at the same time say in the beginning, and I'm not attacking you. I'm just want to, I'm just wanna I want to reason with you.
SPEAKER_10:I don't want God to see how good I am by taking everything I love away from me.
SPEAKER_06:But but sister, that is not your call. This is what you don't understand. That is not your call. Life believes.
SPEAKER_10:But I'll never Well then listen, I will turn from God if it happened, but I I just pray that it doesn't happen to me.
SPEAKER_06:And ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Do you know how the whole book of Job began? Uh no, do you know what took place? Do you know why Job lost everything, including his kids? Do you know why?
SPEAKER_10:Because he was because there was nobody that loved God as much and was so such a faithful worshiper. And then um and then the the bad one said, Well, you know, of course he's gonna love you because he's got all these great things and he's a wealthy man, and you do you do your people good. Like God's a good God.
SPEAKER_06:Sister Peyton, Sister Peyton, breathe a little bit. Just hold on, just relax. We're gonna get through it. All right. I want to walk through with, I want to walk through this with you so we can un so we can get an understanding. Okay. God had a a day of accounting, basically, where all the sons of God were presented. Sister Luke.
SPEAKER_10:Oh, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_06:Sister Peyton, Peyton, listen to me for a second. Just hold on. Satan came in among them. And he tells God the only reason why Job, and first of all, when Job, when Satan gets there, God is the one who says to Satan first, have you considered my servant Job? It was God who brought up Job. Not Satan, the Lord brought up Job. Have you considered Job? Satan says, Yeah, but you keep a hedge around him and every everything he has, and but if you took it all away from him, this is what Satan says to God. If you take it all away from him, he will curse you to your face. You know what the Lord told him? What did the Lord tell Satan that he could do with Job?
SPEAKER_10:Well, the Lord said to Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that learneth God and issue evil. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Now, Satan said what you said that he tells God that's yeah.
SPEAKER_10:Well, wait.
SPEAKER_06:All right, all right. Are you are you with me now? Are you with me for a second? Just hang in here, hang, hang in here with me for a second because I want to get your answer on this.
SPEAKER_10:I'm not hungry. I'll make me some noodles. All right. Um, I don't understand what you mean. I thought you said what does God say?
SPEAKER_06:I can't get it out. You're not letting me get it, you're not letting me get it out. Can you let me get it out, please? Let me get it out. I'm gonna ask you a question, then you can answer it. Satan told God that if you take away everything that Job has, that Job will curse you to your face. That's what he told him. And I'm asking you, what was God's response to Satan when he said that to God? That Job will curse him to his face if you take all of the stuff away from him. What did God tell Job? Do you know?
SPEAKER_10:I don't know. No, I would like to hear.
SPEAKER_06:He told him, All that he has is in your hands. You can do whatever you want with Job, only leave his life intact. Do whatever you want. That means you can take away his kids, you can take away his wealth, you can take away his homes, you can take away his his health, everything. All you can do anything you want to do except take his life. Now, what Job, what the book of Job is pointing out to us in that instance, in that instance, is that the life of all mankind, including our children, belong to the Lord to dispose of at his will.
SPEAKER_10:Dispose of? That's an ugly way to say that. I would never talk like that. You're not God. You're you can't speak on the attributes of God like that. Let me ask you a question.
SPEAKER_06:Let me ask you a question. I asked you a question already, and I'm gonna ask you one more time because If see if you're gonna answer it. What did God tell Satan he could do? Did he or not authorize Satan to take everything? I mean, did God not authorize Satan to take everything from Job? Yes or no? Did he do that?
SPEAKER_09:Not everything. No. Yes, he did. What did he not take? His life.
SPEAKER_06:All right. So, sister, I re I said that. God told him that he could do whatever he wanted with everything that belonged to him except for taking his own life. Which, by the way, wouldn't have made sense if Satan expected Job to curse God to his face. He would have to be alive to do that. But everything else. So what's the problem? The problem is this. The problem is this. I'm trying to get you to understand because you made a comment about when you first started talking about you don't like Job, the book of Job. You had a problem with God taking the life of children.
SPEAKER_09:Well, why do you have a problem that I don't like it?
SPEAKER_06:Pardon me?
SPEAKER_10:Why do you care how I feel about what I like and dislike? It's still God's word and it's still true.
SPEAKER_06:Sister, you brought it up. I didn't bring it up, you did.
SPEAKER_10:You asked my opinion on the book, sir.
SPEAKER_06:I didn't ask your opinion on your book. I didn't ask your opinion on the book. I asked you if I asked you a simple question, which you still fail to answer. And I get it. If I'm in your position, I wouldn't want to answer it either.
SPEAKER_10:I just wanted to say some things about the book, but we're stuck on how I feel about Job, and it should be how I feel about God.
SPEAKER_06:Well, how do you feel about God? Can God do what he wants to do with all of his creations? Can he dispose of his creation however he feels like it?
SPEAKER_10:Yes, sir, he can.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so we agree. This is all I'm trying to get you to understand.
SPEAKER_10:That's all I don't believe he would do that to me. That's all I'm saying. Why are you special? I'm not special. Everybody's special. You just gotta believe. Job was ready for it. Job was a soldier. Job, Job probably agreed to it. Job probably was like, I'm ready for it.
SPEAKER_07:All right, all right, all right.
SPEAKER_10:Children were gonna be in heaven someday. He didn't he didn't grieve over that. Like he left it in God's hands. I dedicated my son to the Lord.
SPEAKER_06:All right, I get it right now. So let me let's go on. Let's go on with the we'll go on with the discussion because I don't want to close everybody out to tie it all up talking about this. My thing is I I'm I'm with you, and I hope you come back. I really do. I hope you come back. I'm not trying to attack you. I but but but you're not talking, you're not, you're not ready to deal with the scriptures. And if you and when you are, and if you are, I definitely want to have the conversation. I hope you come back and engage with us more often. I really do. But it has to be a spirit of of sincerity when it comes to dealing respectfully with the word of God.
SPEAKER_10:And I'm so sorry. I'm gonna get off the panel because I think there's a spirit of confusion, and that's not godly, so I don't feel like this is my place.
SPEAKER_06:All right, that's fine. I understand. I understand that. Sister Mariah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, I was just gonna say that I don't think that it's the fact that um Jove maybe just wants to take his life. I think that it's more so that like you, you know, um you don't know how you're gonna go about something. When you've never gone through something, it's to the extent that Jove is going through, it's like you don't see no other way. And when you know that you have not done anything, um, so to speak, to like rightly deserve all that has happened, I think he's right to question, you know, what's going on and and why, and for if it's going to be like that, then for the Lord to just fully go ahead and take his life if that's the means of the situation. Right.
SPEAKER_06:See, let me I'm gonna say something, you know, and because this is really, this is really a really good conversation to talk about. And and you get to you get to understand, I I believe, why Job, this book, is such a needful book for us to talk about. You can see the reasons why some of the things are in here. And we said at the beginning, in the first couple of sessions, we pointed out in the first two chapters how it is no possible way to not view God the way that he really is. See, the thing about it is when you deal, when you're dealing with the sovereignty of God, when you deal with the sovereignty of God, this is something the natural man doesn't like. I understand why this lady doesn't like it. I get it. I've been dealing with that for 40 years with people who can't, 40 years of people talking about it. Many of you have dealt, excuse me, with people who have the same problem. They don't like the fact that everything is in God's control. She says, God wouldn't do that to me. I don't understand, I don't even understand that comment coming from a person who claims to be a Christian. That makes no sense at all. He wouldn't do it to me. You think you're gonna live forever? You think your children are gonna live forever? I'm not saying as I'm not saying it as if the what happens to people in their practical life in their lives is something that we're glad to see. We just we go to funerals for loved ones, we mourn and we suffer and we we suffer their loss and we miss them. All that kind of thing, it's it's a it's a sad time. But the reality is death and life belong to the Lord. That's simple. He is the one that that gives us all of our bounty, he's the one that takes it away. Job said this, he told his wife the very same thing. Shall I not accept the bad along with the good? But see, people don't like this idea that God can do what he wants to do. When I said that the God can just dispose of his creation as he sees fit, she says, I don't like that word.
SPEAKER_07:But it's true.
SPEAKER_06:That's what God being God is. It's not just an inference or an implication, that's what God and who God is, the sovereign Lord. That's what his name actually means. I do what I please with my creation. I determine who is saved, I determine who is not. I determine when I return, I determine when I when I when I leave. I determine how long you live. Job just got through saying this. He just got through saying this in this very in this very book. Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? That's all men. As a servant earnestly desires his shadow, and a hireling looks looks for his reward for his work, and he says in verse 7, 3, so I am made to possess months of vanity and wearisome nights, and he says, They are appointed to me, determined by God. I don't know why it's so hard, but the reason why it is, I believe, has a lot to do with the fact that men believe that when it comes to their own destiny, they are the ones who are on the throne making that decision. Brother Michael, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:So we see a couple of things in scripture. I'll I'll bring up when uh God was talking to Moses, and we know Moses was a picture of Jesus as a mediator, and he told Moses, I can take all these people out and make you a great nation. So I'm just like uh, you know, when you create something, you get to dictate how it goes. So when any of us on this panel, when we create, I don't know, maybe you create a dish in the kitchen and you personally don't like how it tastes, but everybody else does, and you go and throw it away, they have no right to say anything to you. You made that dish. And so uh uh secondly, uh, we got to remember not to add things to scripture.
SPEAKER_06:And do that, brother.
SPEAKER_05:You're right. There's nowhere in Job that says Job was like, come on, bring it. I'm ready for this guy. No, there's nothing like that.
SPEAKER_06:He never did that. That's what that's what the lady said. And and you know, and and see the thing about it is we can't listen. We can't let people just say what they want to say and not hold them accountable for it. We can't do that. I will never do it, and neither should you. No Christian believe. We have to make sure that we are standing on the Lord's truth. People go out there and they can give you all the latest stats on record sales for their favorite entertainer. They can give you all the latest stats on NFL players and hockey players and basketball players. There are people who become experts at stats and the knowledge of all these things that are going on in the in the AI world and in the uh, what do you call it, the the cryptocurrency world and sports and entertainment? People know movies backwards and forwards. They can tell you the details, they can quote the lines. But you ask a Christian to take the same kind of diligence in the word of God, where are they? Where are they?
SPEAKER_00:They're back to those stats in the sports.
SPEAKER_06:That's right. They go back to that, they don't want to do that. But that's how that's that we should be digging into the word of God, like these people do, and even more so in all these things that will perish with the using. Go ahead, uh uh Meg, you were gonna say something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I just wanted to remind us where we were. So we were comparing Matthew and what Jesus said about taking this cup, not yet, yet, not my mill, but your will be done, Father, and comparing it with what Job was going through at that time. And if I could, I would like to answer.
SPEAKER_09:Go ahead, answer.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I think that the comparison um in this is definitely that they were both blameless and yet they suffered. And so also I think that in comparison to Christ, that we can't discount that, like what Michael said, humanly he felt, but one thing that he knew is he said, Not my will, but your will be done, in the same sense that Job was going through all of this.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And although he didn't say, Not my will, but your will be done, he never cursed God, and he knew that everything that was coming from him was from God.
SPEAKER_06:Right. No, I I I believe I believe you're right. I believe his I believe that his that his and I believe Michael feels the same way, that his that his that his suffering is was such that you know it's it's not like you know, because because somebody made the comment uh uh about um the joy of our affliction. But see, the joy of our affliction is not really, it is not speaking of us celebrating when we get it. That's not what joy is. Christian joy is not celebrating the affliction, but at the same time, it is being thankful of being worthy of a being afflicted. And it's and yeah, Michael says it's suffering suffering well. It's it's it's a weird sort of harmony in a paradox, a harmonious paradox. Like they don't seem to connect, but when it comes to spiritual things, they do, they do, but that's something that can only be