The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Job 7:3-9 - An Appealing Death - Part 1 of 4
Sorrow can feel like it stretches time, but Job’s voice teaches us how to speak honestly about pain without losing our grip on God. We open Job 7 and trace the strange pairing of lament and faith: months of futility, wearisome nights, and the steady conviction that grace still holds. From there, we look to Jesus as the perfect model of this tension—a life full of suffering with no doubt about the mission. That frame allows us to ask harder questions about what we call blessing and where we think God’s favor lives.
The conversation gets practical and personal. We tackle the myth that the “hedge” is made of comfort and possessions, and we suggest a bolder reading: the real hedge is grace that keeps you when the comforts fall away. Stories from the panel bring this home—choosing to release “stuff” and discovering freedom on the other side. We lean into the imagery of crushing grapes and olives, not to romanticize pain, but to show how pressure can extract what sermons alone cannot: character, endurance, and a witness that carries weight. Spiritual wealth is portable; it’s the only treasure you’ll take past the grave.
Then we turn to the stakes of clear doctrine. If we reduce eternal judgment to a footnote, we shrink the cross and dull our urgency. Love doesn’t whisper “it doesn’t matter”; love tells the truth with patience and courage. We talk about lukewarm faith, why it’s so tempting, and how a whole-gospel witness actually honors Christ’s sacrifice. Throughout, Job’s honesty and Jesus’ resolve call us to live awake: grieve without quitting, value formation over fortune, and work to bring many along to glory.
If this resonates, share it with a friend who needs courage in a long night, subscribe for more deep dives through Scripture, and leave a review to help others find the show. What has your “crushing” produced in you?
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Christians, how are you doing this evening? This Wednesday night. I trust that all is well. And I hope you've had a good day so far. And I hope that you are looking forward to tonight's conversation as much as I am. Tonight we're going to be continuing our exposition on the book of Job. And we are in Job chapter 7. Job chapter 7. And we'll begin around right around verse 3 of Job chapter 7. And uh I'm looking forward to it as I hope you are. Now we're starting at verse 3, but I'm going to read uh from verse 1 down to verse 3, and then we'll get into it. So it says here in verse 1 Is there not a time of hard service for man on earth? Are not his days also like the days of a hireling? Like a servant who earnestly desires the shade, and like a hired man who eagerly looks for his wages. Verse 3. So I have been allotted months of futility and wearisome nights, as had been appointed to me. Now, last time we discussed this, we were talking about how Job understood something about his time on earth, and he knew that his time on earth was an allotted period of time. He understood that men have an appointment with death at some point. We all do. And he talks about how he talks about how our time on earth is as a hireling, and as we put in our time, we are looking forward to a date of finality where we can expect our reward and where we can expect our rest in the shade, as it were, as he sort of puts it in verse um in these verses. Now in verse 3, he says, So am I made, so am I made to possess months of vanity and wearisome nights and are appointed to me. And so what Job is doing here is that he is describing his suffering, he's describing his suffering as in the terms of months of vanity. In other words, a useless time, a long time full of empty stretches where nothing is had or or acquired other than misery. And this is what Job is talking about. And we need to be reminded continuously that Job is dealing with, he's dealing with the situation. He's dealing with the situation whereby he is suffering, and but he is still maintaining faith as well. So what happens is that we are dealing with this sort of uh human paradox where he exhibits faith while at the same time he expresses his suffering. And he talks about his knights, instead of bringing relief, they they are assigned to him as wearisome burdens, burdens that trouble him. And this is what he is dealing with. And so Job is in a very uh difficult situation that many of us find ourselves in at times, and the balance between the anguish of suffering and um the faithfulness that is maintained can sometimes be misunderstood. And it is clear to me that in these passages where he's talking to his friends, that this is clearly something they don't understand. But Job is now experiencing it. And so this language that he is that he's expressing himself in verse 3, it shows that his his afflictions are not just for this particular moment or for a moment, but they are sort of protracted over a a lengthy period of time. And he's he's dealing with the weight of this and he's lamenting over this. And so it is it is not about it's not just about uh as most of us look at this whole thing as like he's just crying because of his his lack of of patience. But it it really uh it really expresses somebody who has been crushed, continually crushed, under the weight of his present affliction and trial. And it's hard. It's hard to put yourself in that mindset and to say that we could be in that mindset and remain faithful and be faithful. But what we should learn here from this, what we should learn from all of this is that two apparently conflicting uh uh perspectives when it comes to those of us who are big who are Christians, we can find these things to be congruent. They can be together even though they seem contrary. In other words, the lamenting over the affliction and also at the same time maintaining faithfulness. It's really hard to try to align these things, but as Christians, we should be able to understand that that these two things are definitely aligned, and if we don't understand it in our own lives, then we should certainly look at it and see it in the life of our Savior who came and suffered here in our stead in order that we could be saved. So our Lord came here to suffer, but it was never lost on him that his mission for which he came here to do would be fulfilled. There was never any doubt in his mind that his mission would not be fulfilled. He was a son of God, he's the one who ordered this thing. He came here to perform a function, and he never had a doubt, none of the time he was here on earth, that that would happen, that it would not happen. And yet he suffered the whole time that he was here. He suffered. And so we have to be able to find this. If we don't find it in our own understanding and reading these scriptures, look for it in Christ and you will see it, and it will make a lot more sense to you. So now I'll go around and I will um get introductory remarks from people on the panel. I'm glad you guys are all here. And sorry I missed last night. Um, but every now and then, um, usually there's one of two reasons why I won't go live. And one is spending time with my wife, um, and the other time is when I'm not in it mentally for a number of reasons that can take place, but generally speaking, um those those are the only two reasons why it may happen. And so when it does, just bear with me and be patient because I intend to get back on the horse um as soon as I can. So anyway, um Sister Lisa, what are your opening remarks?
SPEAKER_01:Hey everybody. Um I'm just excited to be here. I'm excited, I'm excited um to hear um what we're gonna what we're gonna speak about tonight. This whole book is um has been a blessing to me. And um, I just I look forward to diving deeper into it. And I thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Amen, sister. Thank you, that man sister. Thank you, Dad. Um, brother Jeff, man of God, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02:I am fine as frog hair.
SPEAKER_03:Fine as frog hair.
SPEAKER_02:Anyone fine as frog hair, yeah. Yeah. You know, I just felt when you're talking about being crushed, you know, the thought just suddenly popped in my head, and I thought I'd share it. You know, that really that to get something good from an olive or a grape, you have to crush it.
SPEAKER_03:You gotta crush it.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. You gotta crush it. Not that it's pleasant. I mean, grapes and olives don't have any feelings, but I'm saying that basically what he got from Job by this crushing was glory.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I mean, it just came to me. Well, you know, I've always told you if it's good, it's not from me, it's from the Holy Spirit, but I thought I'd share it with you.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:No, I appreciate that. It it it reminds me of something I read a long time ago, and I think it was Spurgeon who said it, where he talked about when when is a when is a rose most fragrant? When you crush it. When you crush it. When you crush it. When you crush it. That's right. And uh and and so yeah, so I like that, I like that, and it and it's very it's very true. Uh, so I appreciate that. Um, brother Lama, what are your opening remarks? If any. All right, Sister Candy, opening remarks.
SPEAKER_05:I like what Brother Jeff said because it's through the crushing that the oil is produced. So, what's the oil in us? You know what I'm saying? That's how that's how we even are transformed by the Holy Spirit. Right. So without us being crushed, we can't have her produce anything.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:There's no newness. Um, and who are we to be jealous? Or not jealous, but um stingy with you to not even give your own life your time. Like, we can't be like that. So anytime you feel the need you need to take time for you, your family, your wife, yourself, you ain't gotta apologize to this, brother. We love you, and we understand you have a laugh too.
SPEAKER_03:No problem, sis. I appreciate that. What do you do? What do you do? Patreon's opening remarks. What do you think so far?
SPEAKER_00:Well, one thing uh that I've been meditating on is the the works righteousness religion in this world. And if if if we're justified by works, why is it that Job wasn't able to dig himself out of these holes and out of these judgments and out of these persecutions by his own works? It kind of shows you that that hedge of protection, it was by grace that he stood the entire time, only by God's grace.
SPEAKER_03:Amen. That that is a really good point that I agree with 100%. I'll tell you the reason why. Because when we started this, you weren't here at the beginning, I don't believe. Um, because you may have been listening, but I'm not sure. But one of the things that I tried to point out was that the the the hedge that the the hedge that Satan accused God of putting around Job that prevented him from that kept him from being faithful, um I don't believe that the hedge was actually what was was ever taken down. I believe that I believe that the real hedge is what you're talking about, which is the grace of God that stayed around him. You know, he and so I agree with what you're saying. I I don't believe, like I believe that the hedge that Satan wanted removed, God did take away. But when God said to him that that to Satan, that you can have what you want, you can have Job, but you just can't take his life. And this made a lot of sense too, because remember, Satan's accusation to God with regard to Job was that if he took away all the stuff, then Job would curse God to his face. So taking his life wouldn't allow that to happen. But what but Satan equated the hedge that God put around him had to do with the comforts and conveniences of this life, this world, this worldly life, the stuff. And the funny thing is, this is what so many people who call themselves Christians believe is evidence of the hedge that God puts around them. The stuff. This is what so many of us believe is evidence that God is being is showing favor to us. But in this book, we're learning to see where God's favor really lies. It is in enduring the affliction, enduring affliction, enduring persecution, enduring tribulation. This is where we see the grace of God. Not in the stuff, not the outward stuff, but the inward stuff. And Satan wasn't focusing on that. His his sole thing was to God was that if you take away all of his things, you take away his power, his money, his children, if you take away the the loyalty of his his wife, then he will curse God to his face. And boy, do we see that this is not what ends up happening. And so this is a tremendous lesson for us all. So I appreciate what you said, uh, Brother Patriots. I really do. I get it. And if I'm saying the name right, I don't know if it's Pat Rocks or Patriots, but what, but just bear with me. I'm sorry if I'm brutalizing your profile name. Um, Brother Jeff, encourage the serving. Good night. I mean, good night. Uh, how are you doing tonight?
SPEAKER_04:Well, all right, we'll see you tomorrow. Good night, Jonathan. Bye-bye. Thanks a lot. Running me out of here. I haven't even had my opening statement yet. Good night. Okay, yeah. Well, good evening, everybody, Jonathan and Hel. Um as I'm looking at this, I'm thinking uh about Job is the fact, Jonathan, we have the ability to see the totality of Job's life from beginning to end. We know what has happened. We're reading a little bit about what's going on now. We know the outcome of what's eventually going to happen. Job's going to be restored. His friends are going to have to come to him and make full apologies and all of that. And Job will wind up being doubly blessed. Okay. My point here, Jonathan, is that oftentimes we need to put ourselves in the place of Job, in that we may have things going on in our life we don't like, we don't understand, and we wish God would do something, but we've got to be patient like Job was while God works us and delivers us through the affliction and the growth and the process that may be difficult, it may be hard at times, but we must endure like you just said a moment ago. Amen, brother. Good word.
SPEAKER_02:Brother Jim, man of God, go ahead. Well, I got a little bit of a testimony, praise here, you know, that about this book. You know, we're talking about how, you know, God took, you know, allowed Satan to take away the stuff, and the stuff doesn't matter. Well, yes, I I just applied that yesterday. Uh for all of you, those of you who know I had a dissolution on Monday. Uh I'm a free man again. Uh from that situation I was in. It was horrible. I'm sorry. But anyway, the that's not the point. The point was it went well. I'm glad it went well. Okay. Yesterday I was thinking about it because I have stuff in her basement. Stuff. Most of what my earthly goods are in her basement. And I was thinking yesterday, I'm thinking, you know, I'm gonna she's got me tied to her with this stuff. And I don't need this stuff.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And so I texted her and said, you can keep the stuff. See ya. I blocked her. I mean, I blocked her phone because it's like it's over. I mean, Job has taught me not to value stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:That's my point.
SPEAKER_03:No, and that's good because I'm you know, so many people like uh they really believe, they really believe that the blessings of God are synonymous with the accumulation of worldly wealth. And you know, and you have Christians who say, well, if you go to them and say, you know what, we should focus on things spiritually, and they will say, Yeah, I know, I know, but but but but but it's all these butts all the time. And so this is this is what what we don't what what what we as Christians need to really believe and hold to, because you all these buts, they they sort of mitigate against what the real truth really is, which is that spiritual wealth is all that we have and all that we should be looking forward to. Spiritual growth, spiritual wealth, you know, spiritual understanding, spiritual eyes. You know, and so the whole idea that we have bred a system of thought in Christian circles that faithfulness is evidenced by what you have, what you've been given, the job, the salary, the bonuses, the cars, the homes, the successful wife, and or the successful marriage and successful children, all this stuff. These things, these things are not what makes us right with God. None of these things are. None of these things are. In fact, more often than not, these things are the very distractions that keep us away, that keep us away from a the walk that we ought to have as Christian servants, as God's servants. And so it's difficult, it's difficult to understand because we are bred, we are bred to believe that that the God's blessing upon us, his favor upon us, is made perspicuous by the accumulation of things and stuff. And it is frankly, it is not.
SPEAKER_05:Now all the old of all your past is gone. You've done away with it. All glory to God for making that step. I'm so proud of you. That that takes a lot from somebody to do. You know what I'm saying? To let go of it instead of, well, that's mine and fighting over what tit for tat. You know, that's that's pride, that's selfishness. That's but what you did, man, God is so so so good, brother. I'm excited for your what's to come, brother Jeff.
SPEAKER_03:Encourage you. Servants.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Jonathan, I just wanted to add that uh you're talking about the physical things that uh uh the world affords us that do not last. Jonathan, the spiritual things and the spiritual uh investment that God puts into us, the spiritual things, are the only things we can take out of this world with us. Everything else stays. Name someone somebody on the panel, or you, Jonathan, name one physical thing we're gonna take with us when our body goes into the grave if we pass away. What are we taking with us?
SPEAKER_02:Nothing.
SPEAKER_04:We're not even taking the nice clothes that we're gonna be buried in with us, not the glasses that may be on your face. Nothing. Nothing. We better be taking all of Christ with us we can possibly get here and now before we leave.
SPEAKER_03:Just wanted to say that. I mean, the opt- I think that the ultimate thing that we should be looking to do in this life is taking as many souls with us as we can. You know, uh other other people, believers, and and and uh to to bring many souls to salvation. On in Proverbs 11, verse 30, it says that he that wins souls is wise. And so, and so I think that what we need to do is to seek to bring as many with us to glory as possible.
SPEAKER_04:Like Michael Pastor friend tell me one time, Jonathan, when we get to heaven and we see Jesus, he's gonna give us a big hug, tell us he loves us, and then he's gonna ask us, oh, by the way, who'd you bring with you?
SPEAKER_03:Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's I think that's what I think that's really what it's about. It is about having a concern and a genuine, authentic care for the souls who are lost and seeing that they come to come to faith in Christ. And that's what our whole mission should be, our mission statement should be to be used by God to be the means through which he uses to bring his people to faith. This is what we are here to do. This is why we're still here. And so, as you know, each of us, and I feel that our life ends when our mission, as prescribed by the Lord, has been fulfilled. Whatever that may be. Whatever that may be. But we well, we do have to have a sincere yearning to see people saved, to see people saved. And and and the reality of what is required to make a to have a person come to faith is predicated upon first and foremost, what God is going to do, because we don't know who are his and who are not. But I do know that the from our perspective, from the human perspective, the way that we have a a better and a and a brighter hope for the salvation of the lost is when we have conveyed to the lost sinner, like we were, the full truth and the whole counsel of God. And this is part of my frustration that I had in the last couple of days with this whole thing about Kirk Cameron that we brought up. And this was part of the reason why I had a hard time going live last night was because I was so overwhelmed with this thing and I took it so personal, um, not just because of him, but because of a response or two that I got from people that I that I respect. And so, and so I didn't want to be here and not be in the right mindset with what I was feeling until I was able to get all of that out of my system and have that frustration assuaged. So, but so I get that. That is very true. Brother Jeff, go ahead, encourage the servant.
SPEAKER_04:I apologize to you and everyone that was on the panel that night. Uh I said that I thought that he was he he said those things, but he didn't embrace it. I have now gone back and seen video, uh Jonathan, where he absolutely, positively, 110% says that. And when I saw it, I couldn't believe it. I mean, I'm thinking, is this the Kirk Cameron we know? Right. This is basic Christianity 101, that there is an eternal hell. If you don't have that, Jonathan, I have to question, okay, just how much of Jesus do you have? I mean, because he said this himself.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_04:He talked about eternal hell. What part of that do you not understand? I'm sorry. I just had to say that.
SPEAKER_03:No, and this is this is what what this is part of, for those of you who noticed, uh, you know, I posted my uh my uh my uh live for tomorrow night, because tomorrow night I'm going to deal with um Revelation 3, verse 16, where Christ is dealing with the church, the Nicolaitan church, or the um uh I forget the church. Anyway, Laodicea, Church of Laodicea, yeah, where he talks about when Christ talks about the lukewarm, the lukewarm person. So to me, and what I have to always do, and what we all have to be reminded to do, is to address these errors from the scripture itself. And so, and so I decided to take a composed um perspective on how to address this matter, and that's what I'm gonna talk about tomorrow, dealing with the church of Laodicea and Christ's words that leads up to him saying, I will spit you out of my mouth. Uh those of you who are lukewarm. And so the lukewarm Christian, the lukewarm Christian is someone who is indifferent. Indifferent. And I'll bring this up tomorrow, but you will know when you're dealing with this type of a soul, because they're the kind of people that are always saying about biblical doctrines that they don't matter what your perspective is on it, it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter for salvation. And I want to point out how that is a lukewarm perspective, and Christ hates it. When we speak of his word, we need to be on that wholeheartedly, understanding what is true. It's different if you say I don't know or I don't understand. But to say that it doesn't matter which perspective you have, it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter for salvation, or it's not part of the gospel, or that person is not doesn't need necessarily need to be condemned as heretical. But this whole idea of the lukewarm of the lukewarm church, the Laodicean church, that is where we are today. Nothing matters. Jesus Christ died for sinners, that's it. So let's get rid of all the books of the Bible because they don't matter. You can pick and choose what we should look at and what we should consider to be true or not. And so when I have a brother tell me that it doesn't matter, that it doesn't matter whether you believe in annihilation or eternal or eternal condemnation, that that doesn't matter. That is lukewarm. That is the very definition of lukewarm. Be cold as Christ says, be cold or hot. But I'll deal with this tomorrow. I don't want to get sidetracked by what we're talking about tonight. Sister Lisa, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, sorry, I was um exact same what you're saying. There are people on this, on this app in particular, that I've followed for many years. I believe are um I believe they're they love the Lord. Um, and I'm hearing their response, just what you said, that it doesn't matter as long as we believe in the um death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord. And I I couldn't help but think it so matters if you're telling people that all there is is annihilation, or it doesn't matter what you believe after that, that there's no it's just it absolutely matters, and it's I've been praying, I've been praying since the beginning of my walk for the Lord to keep the lies away from me, to make it clear to me who I who is who. And I gotta tell you, God is good, and and He's He's revealing all this stuff. These people coming out and saying that, especially with huge, huge followings. You know, I'm not saying we go in and argue with them, but right there it just says, okay, you know, they're not on the same, the they're not on the same path that we're on. The path is narrow, and I'm seeing it more and more and more that few will find it.
SPEAKER_03:I really believe so I really believe, sister, that we will find out just how narrow this path really is. And the thing about it is, when you're on that path, we do not waver at all. We don't give an inch. An inch.
SPEAKER_02:Amen.
SPEAKER_03:We do not give an inch. Period. Ever. Ever. I don't care how much that bleeding heart in front of you tells you that this is the Lord Jesus Christ, his love, his love, God's love, it just wouldn't be this way. This is not something God would do, you know, and God doesn't care what our real position is on hell, where there's annihilation or whether he doesn't really care. All he cares is that you believe and trust in his son. Not knowing, not making the connection that when when you div when you devalue the debt that is owed by man to God for sin, you devalue the the value of Christ's death. It is a direct affront to embrace annihilation or to embrace the idea that hell has a remedial element to it where you can come out and all sin, all people are gonna be saved ultimately. Both of those instances only demonstrate one thing that these people devalue the death of Christ. His suffering meant nothing. Because if men do not have to suffer for their sin, then the suffering of Christ is valueless. And he wasn't the one that needed to come in our stead. And so this is what needs to be understood, and we do not get to have the liberty to say what in God's words is justifiable or or is qualified as something that can be taken or can be rejected or accepted or can be altered. We don't get to determine what is salvific or not. We have to look at things and go, if the if the if the word of God teaches it, we have to reckon with it and treat it seriously, not be like, well, it doesn't really matter. But anyway, that's my perspective on that. And I'll deal with a lot of this tomorrow on the lukewarm Christian. Brother uh Jeff encourages the servant and then uh Canaan.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Jonathan, I just wanted to add that uh uh eternal separation from God in hell is a worthy punishment of rejecting Christ as Savior. You see what I'm saying? After all he did for us on the cross, and we spent a lifetime rejecting that, turning away from it, ignoring it, or just pretending like it's not even there and going on living a life that that that that laughs in God's face. That is a punishment. Eternal separation is a punishment worthy of the rejection of that gift. Right. And there's where a lot of people get hung up today. He's within his rights to do it. You don't understand what he did for us on the cross. It is immeasurable, it is incalculable. We'll never understand the fullness of it until we see him face to face. That's how much he did for us.