LIVE DISCUSSION: Job 7:3-9 - An Appealing Death - Part 3 of 4

What if the story of Job is not a moral about grit but a roadmap for grace? We dive into Job’s raw language—worms, cracked skin, and the weaver’s shuttle—to uncover a richer truth about sanctification: God starts the relationship and God keeps it, even when life feels like living decomposition. Along the way, we challenge a common myth that faithfulness means sinless perfection. Faithfulness, we argue, looks like confession, repentance, and getting up under mercy.

We also tackle a hot-button claim: salvation has never changed. From Abraham to Job to Paul to us, the ground is the same—saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. Galatians becomes our guide against add-ons, whether ancient circumcision or modern checklists. We examine how ritual, culture, and pressure try to smuggle requirements into the gospel, and we walk through why those attempts collapse under Scripture’s weight. The contrast is freeing: ordinances are gifts, not gates; Jesus is the gate.

When we reach Job 7, the imagery opens a deeper layer. Job’s body paints a spiritual mirror of human depravity without the Lord, and into that ache we name Christ as the balm of Gilead—the healer who treats not just wounds but the rot beneath them. We reckon with the speed of life and the silence that can follow prayer, then explore what it means to suffer well: to tell the truth about pain, to appeal to God’s compassion, and to trust that the One who began a good work will carry it to completion.

If you’re wrestling with shame, struggling with add-on religion, or wondering how to find purpose when days blur, this conversation meets you where you are. Listen, share with a friend who needs courage, and if it helped you see Job—or Jesus—more clearly, subscribe and leave a review so others can find it too.

Chapters

• 0:00 Faith, Fear, And Suffering Well
• 1:49 Job As A Portrait Of Sanctification
• 3:31 Faithfulness Is Not Perfection
• 6:40 Old And New Testament: One Salvation
• 11:20 Galatians, Judaizers, And Adding Requirements
• 15:45 Samson’s Faith And What Saves
• 18:20 Balm Of Gilead And Healing Imagery
• 21:05 Job 7:5—Living Decomposition And Depravity
• 24:15 The Weaver’s Shuttle And Fleeting Life
• 27:30 Pleading For Compassion And True Hope
• 31:00 Beyond Morals: Finding The Gospel In Job

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:01

You can have a lot or a little, but Christ is the same. So the difference is when it comes to uh uh how you know a lot of faith or a little bit of faith will be how uh how the experiences that faith requires you to that that faith allows you to work through, it may be it determines how little or how much you're going to be frightened by what is going on. Brother Michael, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 0:37

Brother Michael, you there? Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you now. Go ahead. I think uh encouraging servant had his hand up before me.

SPEAKER_02: 0:45

Well, go ahead. I'll I'll get to him next.

SPEAKER_01: 0:47

Uh go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 0:48

I'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01: 0:49

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's uh I think this is sanctification. This is a huge picture of sanctification. Because at the beginning of Job, it's God who sets the relationship. He says, My servant. So we know God has already set the relationship with Job as being his. And then we see that God is over this and everything he's going through. So this is a huge sanctification. So I don't think the question necessarily is faithful, faithfulness, as much as it is, like I've said before, is he gonna suffer well? And so we we see we see in the New Testament where it says, uh, be confident in the one who started a good work in you, he will complete it. And so we see that happening in Job. And and I wouldn't say necessarily the unfortunate thing for Job, but this is a story for us to learn from. Job had to go through it. Job was always going to be upheld through it through God. He was going to complete the work that he started in Job. And so we we know that because we get to look at the whole thing. But Job had to go through it for us to be taught these lessons of how to suffer well and how not to suffer.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06

That's right. Amen. Brother Jeff, encourage the servant. Go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_00: 2:11

Yeah, Jonathan, I just wanted to add that uh uh you were talking about faithfulness a moment ago. I think sometimes, Jonathan, we can be faithful uh at fault, I know I have been, in thinking that faithfulness means living a life of sinless perfection. And that is not the case. What it means is that when sin occurs in our life, we now have the ability to confess it, repent of it, and effectively deal with it. That's what faithfulness, at least that's what it means to me. It doesn't mean we're perfect. God didn't call me to be perfect. Right, I'm not Jesus. I just received what he did on the cross for me. Okay, so when I have sinned, confess it, repent of it. What did I learn from it? Get up and move on. And I I think a lot of times younger Christians, and I know I was this way as one, I got hung up on that point, is my point.

unknown: 3:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 3:10

So we gotta be careful here that when that it doesn't mean that we have to be perfect, just be faithful and be able to do with sin what needs to be done with it when it occurs. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 3:21

Brother Pat, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06: 3:24

You know, I really appreciate that you put me in the corner and said, if I put a gun to your head and you had to you had to choose, because I've I got put in a position where your theology has to catch up with your brain, right? Um forced me into a corner, and what I should have said, I really appreciate it because next time I won't hesitate. I should have said Job was faithful because he's he's more than a conqueror through him who loved him. That's right, brother. So I would like to revise my answer, and that's my answer I will have for now on.

SPEAKER_02: 3:59

I love it, brother. I I love it, and that's what we have to understand. And I'm gonna tell you why that's important to understand. Because there is an element of folks out there who distinguish the nature of our relationship today as New Testament Christians from the relationship that Old Testament saints had with God. It was the same. That's weird. It's hard to talk with that on. But it's but but it's the the salvation and what we have in in Christ is no different than what these Old Testament saints have. All the way back to Job. Job, Moses, we were all saved the same way. The difference is that there is there there is a a different amount of light that we have been exposed to um in terms of because of the time that has passed and lapsed in the revelations that have been made, especially uh coming from what we see taking place at the cross when Christ came here. But the fact of the matter is the gospel, the gospel of salvation and how we are saved has never changed. It has always been the same. Always been. And we're grateful and we're thankful for that. And so, and you have many men and who will try to change that and alter that in the way they convey biblical truth. But one of the ways to fend off error, error, when it comes to Old Testament saints and us today, is to understand that salvation has never changed. The grounds for what makes us saved has never changed. We are saved by faith, justified by faith, and that has always been the same. And it's crazy when you think about it because Christ says to the he said to the to those Pharisees of his day when he was there, he said, if you had the faith of Abraham, you would love me. If you had the faith of Abraham, you would know who I am. If you had the faith of Abraham, you would know that I'm the one that you have held your expectations to um to see. And to see all these things fulfilled that all these prophets have spoken about. Brother Jeff, encourage your servant. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 6:35

Just to echo what you just said, let me ask you this quick question. What did you just get done teaching us in the book of Galatians before we got to Job?

SPEAKER_02: 6:45

There you go. Yep. About that circumcision and everything. You know, you know, it it it there's so much there that we need to understand that that and when you think about it, it's really simple. It's really simple. But if you look at it and understand the full import of it, it makes it easier to embrace. Salvation has never been different. For the Old Testament Saints, they had to have faith in the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that we do. Nothing has changed. And this is why we're able to fend off some of these things that people will tell you that you need to do to be saved. So in Galatians, as Brother Jeff just mentioned, you know, you had a bunch of people that Paul had witness to, brought them to faith, built them up in the faith, gave them understanding, and what did they do? They fell prey to the Judaizers who said, You can't, you're it's okay for you to believe in this Jesus guy. But you can believe that you can be justified by faith. But don't forget, you still must be circumcised if your salvation would be complete. And today, you have people with a whole different set of things. You can't be saved if you don't have the Book of Mormon. You can't be saved if you drink coffee or Coca-Cola or wine. You can't be saved if you're not water baptized. You know, when you look at the apostles, for example, on in that regard, the only one that we know that was actually physically baptized among the apostles was Paul himself. There's no record of any other apostle being water baptized. None. It's inferred. You can make the argument for it being inferred, but there's not one shred of scripture that says that any other apostle other than Paul was actually water baptized. And Paul didn't baptize anybody. And it's interesting that even in creeds in churches today, and you look at these creeds and confessions and and whatnot, and they will a lot of them will tell you, for, and I'm just using this as an example. They will say things like, um, they will say things like um um nobody like as a membership requirement, because I've sp experienced this in many churches that I've gone to. They'll say, well, you you're not allowed to take part, they recommend and ask you not to take part in the Lord's Supper unless you've been water baptized. But think about this for a second. The apostles weren't baptized, like for instance, they they weren't baptized, um, and if they were, it would have been after the first communion that they took. And so there's so many different there's so many different aspects of these whole things, but the point is, I'm trying to get people to zero on zero on at with is this salvation in every age has been the same. If there's something that somebody's telling you that you need to do to be saved, and that same thing wasn't required by David and Samson and Job and Moses and all the saints before, then it wasn't part of the salvation process. It's not what it's not part of what is required. We are required to trust in God through Jesus Christ. Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of yourself, and it is by grace through faith alone. Brother Jeff, man I got go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 10:35

Well, I had a thought. You were talking about salvation by faith, and it just occurred to me, and I'm glad it did, because I always thought when you talk about, when you read the study of the when you read the scriptures about the judge Samson, when you look at his life, he basically just kind of did whatever he wanted to. You know, I mean he just, you know, he chased after women, you know, he was he afflicted the Philistines, and I think that was, you know, really something he was supposed to do. But in the end, you know, he was captured, blinded, and made a slave. But, but when they tied him between the pillars of the temple of Dagon, right, and and he prayed to the Lord to return his strength so that he could do it, you know, he could take out all these unbelievers. I think that showed his great faith in God that he could do that. And not only that, it it's not said he's not committing suicide. I think he's inferring that God will save me, that God will take me, I will go to heaven. And uh in that one act, he pretty much iced his uh his saving faith, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 11:42

Right, right. You know, and somebody, uh uh Linus, uh uh said that Paul did baptize, and he he he actually did. He he baptized one family and two other guys, uh Stephanus and um uh uh Crispus. Crispus, I forget. But anyway, but what I'm saying is that even Paul, there were many people that he said that he was thankful that he didn't baptize any of these other people. So, so Linus, you're right. You're correct. He did. There were there were two people that he Paul baptized and a family that he baptized, other than that, he baptized nobody else. So uh thank you for that correction. I appreciate it. Um so anyway, now we get to verse five, job jobs, uh Job 7, verse 5. So he says, My flesh is clothed with war with worms and clods of dust. My skin is broken and become loathsome. Um forever blessed. You want to take a stab at what he means there. What is he talking about? My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust, my skin is broken and become loathsome. What does that sound like to you?

SPEAKER_07: 13:10

It almost seemed like he's um he's it almost seemed like a tormenting thing, like he's going through torment um of his body from his body, uh, and you gotta come back to me. You gotta come back to me.

SPEAKER_02: 13:36

I gotta ponder on that for a minute. No problem at all. Um, encouraging servant, brother. What do you think? And then uh and then Michael, I believe it is.

SPEAKER_00: 13:46

Okay, okay, Jonathan. My translation reads similar but a little bit different. It said Job says, My body is clothed with worms and scabs. My skin is broken and festering. Right. So he's got some bad stuff crawling all over him right now.

unknown: 14:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 14:08

I mean, this guy, and we've already talked about it, you've already mentioned it. This guy is about in about as bad a shape as a human being can get.

SPEAKER_02: 14:17

Right. Brother Michael, and then candy.

SPEAKER_01: 14:21

Yeah, I mean, it's like he's in the grave, but he's still breathing, which I I uh who is that? CJG said, yeah, he's being like being tormented alive. I mean, it's just uh something I never want to go through.

SPEAKER_02: 14:36

I mean, right. It's like he's he it's like he says, My my flesh is clothed with worms. You associate worms with the grave. Yeah. That's right. That's right. You so you so you make that you make these connections. My skin is broken and become loathsome. You you know, he's it's it's it's like he he's it's like he's a walking, living decomposition. Yeah, it's like he's alive while he's decomposing. Sister Candy, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 15:12

Which I find very symbolic to what Michael said right there at the end. When in Gohanna, when the worms never die and the fire never is quenched, and like his skin is he's got all these, like somebody else chopped, I think, infected, like those boils, they they don't just go away and and they ooze and they sink, and his skin, like his body swells from the inflammation until his skin just cracks and oozes. So yeah, it's like a sign of of death, and then on top of that, it's like a flesh-eating disease, is when you just read certain scripture the way it's read. It's like he's it's so symbolic though to us unaliving in the flesh and living by the spirit, like like you said, he's still alive, but dead. It's ironic that you said that, you know what I'm saying? Because that is exactly what we do in the flesh. Yeah, we unalive, and this is a different picture of that unalivement in his situation, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:24

Absolutely, brother Pat. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06: 16:29

Makes me think of like um, you know, when I was an unbeliever, I did things that led in disaster that we call it hitting rock bottom, right? But it at least in that you're like, well, you know what? I deserve this because I did it to myself. This this is like next level. He can't even, you know, he can't even put together why this is happening. It's it's not even like, well, I'm an alcoholic because I did it to myself. He doesn't even understand. It's got to be just like a next level of feeling like you're kicked when you're down, right?

SPEAKER_02: 17:09

Yep, absolutely. Uh, brother Jeff, encouraging servant.

SPEAKER_00: 17:12

Go ahead, brother Jonathan. It just occurred to me that the only reason Job is still breathing and still alive is because God told Satan, you can't touch his life. And that is the only, only reason he's still alive. If it hadn't been for that, the worms would have eaten him up a long time ago. Right, absolutely. That's the only reason he's still breathing right now.

SPEAKER_02: 17:42

Yep. Uh Sister Lisa, let me ask you a question. When you read verse 5, my flesh is clothed with worms and claw and and clods or scabs of dust, my skin is broken and become loathsome. What biblical truth about us can we use this to be analogous to? Like what is what what is what is happening, what is Job saying here right now? What is he describing right now that we can apply to ourselves spiritually?

SPEAKER_04: 18:24

Well, when we're this sounds like someone who's dead. Um when we're we're when we're in in our sin and and trespass, all right. We are spiritually we're rotten spiritually.

SPEAKER_02: 18:45

Um don't be don't hold back. Sister, let me tell you something. You're you're nailing it. You're nailing it. You want to add to it?

SPEAKER_04: 19:05

Um, other than no, I don't know what to add to that, honestly. You're you're unless unless you're born again, you will be in that state forever and ever. Yeah. And then and then, yeah. You'll be in that state forever.

SPEAKER_02: 19:27

Amen. This this is a picture of man's depravity. This is this is how depravity is. This is this is what we should be looking at. The depravity of man. This is this right here is a is a good perspective of what we are spiritually in our sinful nature before an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ. Like Candy said, life without the word life without the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a picture of what we are spiritually. Spiritually. Brother Pat, go ahead. You were gonna say. Something.

SPEAKER_06: 20:01

I first of all just gonna say the Holy Spirit is really working. Thank you so much for tonight because I've read this story so many times, and I'm reformed. You know what I mean? A lot of people would say you're a guy that that has a theology together. I never saw this. That this is a figure of salvation.

SPEAKER_04: 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 20:21

Out of all the times, all the years of reading the story, and I went right by it and never saw the gospel in the story. I just want to say thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02: 20:30

Oh brother, this these are the moments that I know we all live for. They had these moments when we read the scriptures, and and because I can't tell you how many times that the same the same thing has overwhelmed me, the things that people in this panel say. And um and and and and all I can say is this is why we do this. This is why, this is what what we're here for, each other to come to the conclusion of on these matters, to to to crystallize some of these things. And so thank you, brother, for making that that acknowledgement. Sister Candy, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 21:03

I was just gonna say it's it's kind of like when we go to the grave and just sleep, and then we're raised in a new body. That's like part of that being becoming new, it's also the process of coming, letting the old pass away, if I if I'm making sense. But then when we become a child of God, then the old passes away. So then we start becoming new, and then when when our day comes that he calls us home to salvation, and then he raises us in a new body, all that is left in the ground, you know what I'm saying? That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02: 21:55

So just blurt it out if you know what what is for a soul that is can be described by what we see here in verse five. What name has been applied, or what descriptive has been applied to Christ that has him healing us of these things? What is he called? Anybody? Propitiation. He's he's called a propitiation. But I mean, in terms of like but the propitiation speaks more to him dealing with the wrath, God's wrath.

SPEAKER_03: 22:35

I don't say a savior, a healer.

SPEAKER_02: 22:38

Okay, but let the go down that go down that healing path. What is he called? I believe it's in Ecclesiastes or Song of Solomon. What do you what is he called?

SPEAKER_03: 22:46

Physician. The great physician.

SPEAKER_02: 22:51

He's called a physician, and that that would be and that would be true as well. That's true as well.

SPEAKER_04: 22:56

But there's something just brother Jeff, man of God, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05: 23:02

Well, you know, I mean, uh, certainly uh he's a healer, he's a physician, but uh, I was trying to think of what you were going for. Uh it isn't quite there. Uh so I you know I I I can't say I know where you're going with that. I mean, to me, he's he's healing.

SPEAKER_02: 23:21

Right. It is healing. It is healing. So everybody's saying the right things, but there's one particular expression that he's called, and I believe it's Solomon who calls him this. Um, Michael, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 23:35

Man, I'm I'm blank.

SPEAKER_02: 23:37

Uh because I know I know you all know when you hear it, you're gonna be like, oh, that's it. And maybe it's me not being able to lead you to that.

SPEAKER_07: 23:45

Is it life?

SPEAKER_02: 23:46

Is it called righteousness? No, no. I'll I'll go ahead and see it. A bomb, the bomb and gilead. The bomb and gilead. Everybody guess that one.

SPEAKER_05: 24:02

Yeah, yeah, he's the bomb of Gilead.

SPEAKER_02: 24:04

He's the bomb of Gilead.

SPEAKER_05: 24:06

And bomb is used to treat sores.

SPEAKER_02: 24:08

Yes, he's the bomb of Gilead. And so when you read that, that's what he that's what that's what Christ is. He's the bomb uh in the balm of Gilead, he's the one that provides healing bomb to our souls, the balm of Gilead. And when you read it, it's such a beautiful expression that is that is applied that that is applied to Christ in terms of what he does.

SPEAKER_03: 24:36

And so that was nice, because I don't think none of us would have ever pulled that together.

SPEAKER_02: 24:41

Yeah, he's like the bomb or the ointment. That's what it's like, like the like the healing ointment. And it's just a beautiful yeah, it is, it really is. It really is. But Job was dealing with this, this, this, this, you know, you when you feel like this, and you see what he describes in verse 5, you understand why he longs for death. He'd rather he'd rather be gone than have to bear up under the weight of such egregious affliction. And you know, and God picked the suitable candidate where he would wage this war with Satan, and it was Job. Job is that arena, he's that arena, and so he sees himself as living in his body that is reduced almost to the condition of being in the grave, turning into worms, worms. Into worms. That's what's going on. Verse 6 He says, My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope. Anyone want to take a stab at this? What he's talking about. My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle and are spent without hope.

SPEAKER_00: 26:14

His days have no meaning. There's no uh uh event or anything that occurs during his days, Jonathan, that gives him hope that things are going to get better anytime soon. He is hopeless, literally. His greatest hope, God, uh, at this moment, he's feeling totally abandoned by God. He's in his mind, Jonathan, he's in spiritual hell. In his mind, he's in hell, separated from God. He he thinks that God has abandoned him.

unknown: 26:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 26:49

So he means his days have no meaning to him.

SPEAKER_02: 26:53

And he and he's and he says that, and he's saying that they're going by fast. My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle. Now, a weaver's shuttle, what's the best way to describe it today? Like a sewing machine. Remember when uh Samson had his hair put into the weaver's beam? A loom. That's the word I'm thinking about, a loom. And so he's talking about the the speed whereby the threads or the yarn or whatever is weaving a material, a fabric. A loom. That's the word I'm looking for, a loom. But like a sewing machine, you know, it goes fast. And so he's saying that my my that my days are like this weaver's shuttle, this weaver's beam, and they're spent without any any hope whatsoever. And he's talking about how brief his life is, and he's also speaking about the the futility of it. He's saying, what purpose is there in my life? What is my purpose in remaining in this life under this affliction? What how am I how am I being used? And again, brethren, this is something that this is a question that many of us have as Christians. What is my purpose? And we always sometimes we think that when things are going so bad for us, that there's no way for us to clearly see through all of that and and still come to a conclusion that God has a usefulness for a usefulness for us. Brother Jim, man of God, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 28:32

Oh, you know me. I just come up with something. If you want to see the action of a loom uh with a shuttle, uh watch the movie Wanted. Uh that's the movie where uh this guy, you know, is uh he's trained to become an assassin, but basically there's a loom in there, and it it supposedly makes predictions in this cloth that it spins. But when you see how fast that thing moves, you'll you'll get a real understanding of what what a loom does.

SPEAKER_04: 29:02

What's the name of Wanted.

SPEAKER_05: 29:04

W-A-N-T-E-D. Wanted. It's got um it's got uh Jolie in it, she's in it. Morgan Freeman's in it. Yeah, Charlotte. Well, so is uh the guy that plays the uh the male lead, I forget his name, but No, I'm gonna watch it because I love the fancy movies anyway. But yeah, well you wanted is an interesting movie, it's got a nice twist at the end, too, you'll like. So anyway, but I I thought that you know that's a way to see. I mean, it's not a I don't remember if there's foul language in it or not, so pardon me. I there may be some, but I don't remember. But it's it's a good movie, it's got a good plot.

SPEAKER_02: 29:43

Yeah. But that's but that's a good way, you know, if you get if you get a chance to see something like that or to see a loom, you get to understand what what Job is talking about. But it's it's that stitching, that's the speed of which the stitch, and and back then that was pretty fast. Um so and he's saying this is what his he's saying this is what his life is feeling like. And then in verse 7, he goes, Oh, remember that my life is wind. My eye shall see no more good. So now he's so now he's like appealing to God, and he's asking God to consider how fragile his life is. And he says that it's like the wind, it's like a breath that, you know, you know, it's like, have you ever like, well, we all we've all done it. Like when it's cold outside somewhere and you sort of breathe on a window or you blow your breath onto a mirror or glass, and you see how long does that steam last? Fractions of a second. That's what he's saying his life is like. And he sees no, he sees no good in it at all. And he he's not asking God to remember him in his anger, but he's asking for God to consider him under the umbrella of his compassion. And so, and and and as I said before, compassion almost it almost presupposes the acknowledgement of the the the deservedness of judgment, and then appealing to God for his compassion because you know that judgment is what we deserve. And so we need to we need compassion from the Lord. Pat, did I skip you? Did I did I forget to call you?

SPEAKER_06: 31:27

Well, no, yeah, no, no. I didn't have my my hand raised, but you know, it it does occur to me that this story, there's a tendency to almost view some Bible stories as like Aesop's fables. Like they're just a good moral story with a moral lesson at the end. And like the story of David in Goliath, it's just trust God and be brave. That's all you need to know. And with Job, I always viewed it as oh, it just means, you know, stand fast and and be strong amongst trials. But you gotta dig deeper because there's so much more that is under the surface. There's there's these gems of the gospel that are hidden beneath if you take the time to unpack it.

SPEAKER_02: 32:12

There is, there is, brother. Sister Candy, go ahead. Sorry, I skip missed you, sister. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 32:21

Um, I was just gonna when he was just asking about the weavers thing in 1 Samuel 17 7. Now the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam, and his iron spearhead weighed 600 shekels, and a shield bearer went before him. So, like