The Bible Provocateur

LIVE DISCUSSION: Job 7:3-9 - An Appealing Death - Part 4 of 4

The Bible Provocateur Season 2025 Episode 748

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When life starts moving faster than your footing, it’s easy to say, “My life is wind.” We open the Book of Job to sit with that ache without flinching, and we find something surprising: lament that is honest, faith that refuses to flatter, and hope strong enough to outlast despair. We ask whether Job’s bleak words are rebellion or the courage to pray what hurts, and we trace how humility—“remember that I am but a breath”—keeps the conversation with God alive when answers don’t.

From there, we explore Job’s stark image of mortality, a life that fades like a cloud, and the line about going to the grave and “coming up no more.” Does that cancel resurrection? Not when read alongside the bright center of Job 19: “I know that my Redeemer lives… yet in my flesh I shall see God.” That sentence changes everything. It is not vague survival; it’s embodied hope, a promise that God will stand on the earth and the faithful will see him in renewed flesh. We tie this thread to the heart of Christian faith, the firstfruits of resurrection in Jesus, and the way this vision reshapes how we talk, pray, and endure.

If you’ve ever felt like you’re out of words, covered in losses, and standing at the edge of yourself, this conversation offers language that holds. We connect Job’s honesty to Christ’s agony in Gethsemane, remember that prayer doesn’t need a script, and gather practical courage from Psalms, Romans 8, and 1 Peter 5. Suffering isn’t holy by itself, but dependence can be—especially when it points us to a living Redeemer and a future you can count on.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope today, and leave a review to help others find these conversations. What line from Job anchors you when life runs thin?

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SPEAKER_01:

When it says that in that that verse, um, swifter than a weaver shuttle. It's like swifter than that spear. Like that's how t fast the days are going. And then I I've I just had like a lot of people said it was like he had no hope. But the thing he had no hope was was the end. And like if he has no future, like what is life? Like his hope for life after this, he didn't even he couldn't see it now that we're in the next verse. What he talks about is I, you know, so I kind of flooded in with that too.

SPEAKER_08:

Right. And he he says, he he goes, he goes, Oh, remember that remember that my life is wind, my eye shall see no more good. So he's speaking as someone who believes that his condition is dire, terminal, that he's on the verge. That he's on his he's on his way out. And he and he says, My eye shall see no more good. So at this point, you know, he's he's like he's being drum, he's being a little dramatic, but uh but he has grounds, he has grounds for feeling this way and being this way. So, but what we have to ask ourselves is, is he speaking from a heart that is just overwhelmed with sorrow, or is this is he speaking from a from the standpoint of rebellion? Which one do you think it is? Forever blessed. What do you think? What do you think it is? Is he is he speaking from a heart that is overwhelmed by his affliction, or is he being rebellious in any kind of way?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't believe he's being rebellious. Um almost like he's so overwhelmed with what's going on with him that it's almost like his life is over. You know what I'm saying? Right. And uh just looking at the events that transpired in his life, everything is being shifted, and almost like he's waiting for his turn. When is my turn being gone? And why so much suffering before he takes me in a sense?

SPEAKER_08:

Absolutely. Brother Michael, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05:

With that, I don't it's not rebellion because he's not cursing God or anything like that. It it is just, I mean, who wouldn't be overwhelmed? I uh you know, that's the question is, and I think this is where we get the the picture uh the similarity of him and Christ in the sense of the suffering is so unbearable that you know when Christ was in the garden, he's sweating blood because he knows what's about to come upon him.

SPEAKER_07:

Right.

SPEAKER_05:

So it's even before uh going to the cross, he was already understanding how unbearable the physical pain was going to be.

SPEAKER_07:

Right.

SPEAKER_05:

And so it's absolutely not rebellion, but it's just it's just a fact, it's reality of how crucial that that pain and suffering was.

SPEAKER_08:

Right. Yeah, I think I think you're right about that, and I think Jeff said it right too. It's excruciating. You know, it's hard to imagine what something like that is going through. I mean, I mean, think about it. I'm I remember being five years old, four or five years old when I had chicken pox. And I just remember how how terrible that felt and the itching and all that kind of stuff. Imagine you're hit you're being a full-grown man having the illustrious life that he had. Now you're covered head to toe with with boils on top of all those other things that he suffered through. I mean, uh, you know, it's just beyond the pale in terms of being able to understand how to deal with such a thing. I mean, it it's just it's just it's just crazy. Sister Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, well, I was just gonna say, um, um, I don't believe there's there's any rebellion in this at all. And I it's a reminder, I think to me, to and should be to all of us that his honesty, no matter how it sounds, no matter how low we feel, how low he feels here, he's he's speaking it, you know. Um God already knows, anyway. So the fact that he believes he can speak these things openly, um, I think it speaks a lot towards uh to the relationship that he he really the faith that he has in God. A lot of people might say, oh, you know, again, you know, you're not suffering well, or might look at this as he's not doing so well, but I kind of look at it the opposite, that the fact that he can go to his his God, our Abba, and say these things like we would say to our own parents, if if when we are in in this type of situation, I think that's that's huge. Do you know what I mean? I don't know.

SPEAKER_08:

Yeah, I do, I do. And and I and I think Sister Lisa and everybody here, you know, because he he in verse 7 he says, he says, Oh, remember that my life is wind, that my eye shall see no more good. And he's making he's he's making an appeal to God. And and it's almost like there's this, there's there's sort of like in his discussion, in his in his complaint, that he has this parenthetical uh sort of distraction, which is a good one, where he appeals to God. He's not, it's like, it's almost like at this second, he's not talking to Ellie Faz or his friends. It's like he's it's like there's this appeal to his God. And he says, remember that my life is wind. Remember that I'm weak, that I'm fragile, that I'm nothing. You know, you know, I'm not trying to be something that I'm not. I'm not trying to, but I'm frail, I'm fragile. Remember that. Don't crush me. And remember, we saw earlier where he talked about, and I think it was in chapter, in chapter six, where he talks about how he felt that the arrows of God were piercing him, and that this, and that the poison of the on the arrow was drinking up his spirit. And what and what he's doing now is reminding God to remember that he is frail, that he's fragile. You know, and he's and he's and he's just asking God to like to take care. Take care. And like Brother Nathan says, he goes, he he's he's humble, he's he's showing humility here. And that's what I that's what I see. And so and and and so I think that this is important to understand because we go through these things sometimes, and we often think that prayer can be prayer has to be this formulaic approach. But here it is, he's just like, remember me that I'm just wind, I'm just nothing. I'm a vapor. I'm nothing, I'm fragile, I have no strength, I've been depleted of everything. And I have nothing. Lord, remember that I am just a vapor, I'm just a breath. Have mercy on me, have compassion on me. My eyes will see no more good. But God has something in store for you in me, and we are all gonna see. Sister Candy, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

I was just gonna say, uh, like I was saying a while ago about the the spears, where they were heavy, the weight, the weight upon him is is unbearable. And then you got that, like like you said, you compared it to a sewing machine. The the the shifting back and forth, the teeter tot and back and forth of that piercing agony and pain. It's yeah. Sorry, I was reading something in psalms and probably lost myself.

SPEAKER_08:

No, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01:

I was in 30, 37, 10. And he says, by the breath of God, ice is given, and the broad waters are frozen. So it's almost like he's turning cold, he's losing it. He's he's he's ready to just give up.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, he's ready to give it to you.

SPEAKER_01:

He has no hope left in the afterfacts.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

He doesn't, I I think he I think he's literally got that that feeling that I'm getting from him is that he he's not gonna make it through this. Like it's it's it's slowly but surely his his time is king. But does he not know he has been saved?

SPEAKER_08:

Right. So he he he so he goes in verse nine, and he he continues that line of uh of sort of talking, and he says here in verse nine, he goes, as the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he that goes down to the grave shall come up no more. So now he's comparing the our human existence to like a cloud that fades away. Hear it here here one moment and then it goes away. And he goes, you know, once it becomes apparent, once it becomes visible in the sky, it won't, excuse me, it won't be long before it's dissolved. We all see this depending on where we live, live. Oftentimes when it when we go into a rainy season or whatever, you can have one day, especially like when I used to live in Florida, you could have it could be 85, 90 degrees, clear day, and literally within moments, you got a full-on storm that lasts for about three minutes. And and then it clears up again. And and so this is what he's saying. He sends like look these clouds, my life is like these clouds. It's like these clouds. And he speaks from the perspective of of earth earthly life, and he says that he that goes down to the grave shall come up no more. He sees himself as this guy who's about to descend to the depths and not returning to this world. That's what he sees himself as. I'm leaving this, I'm leaving this existence, and I'm gonna be gone for good. And so here's what I want to ask you now. And I'll finish up on this verse for tonight. He says, as the cloud consumed, it vanishes away. My questions are gonna be centered around the second part. So he that goes down to the grave shall come up no more. So this is my closing question to ask everybody and sort of get your response. Do you think that he is denying the resurrection by saying this? By describing the, you know, the the fact that when you go down to the grave, um, you shall come up no more. Do you think that he is denying resurrection? Let me start with uh brother Pat. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely not. I I think that he is suffering. He's seeing the situation that he's in, and he's on a train that's heading in a certain direction, and he's seeing that there's not a lot left in the tank. He that he sees the end of those train tracks if things keep going the way they're going.

SPEAKER_08:

Right.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_08:

Brother Michael, what do you think? Is he denying is he denying resurrection?

SPEAKER_05:

No, I don't think it's been revealed to him. I think this is the the process that Job had to uh walk out uh again in in God's will, uh, and he will see the resurrection. So it's you know, there's a contrast, and it's just like we always say, you know, the Old Testament sealed and the New Testament revealed, or uh something like that. Right. But we know there's a lot of uh revelation once Jesus physically comes on the scene and stuff, and we see how the apostles suffer differently, or they they suffer, they do suffer differently than how we see Job suffering. You know, you have Stephen as he's getting stoned, he's he's asking for God to forgive everyone. You know, saying the exact same thing Jesus said on the cross, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And then we see in Philippians 4 13, this is the contextual meaning of that is even through our suffering, uh I can do all things through God who strengthens me, strengthens me. And so it's just it's going to be revealed to him, of course.

SPEAKER_08:

He believes in God. What's gonna be revealed to him?

SPEAKER_05:

Uh resurrection and so forth. I mean, he's going to have new life.

SPEAKER_08:

Right. But you don't you but do you think do you think that he knows? Somebody even asked a question, Billy B, does Job even know about the resurrection? Does he know? Do you think he knows that's what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05:

It's getting revealed to him. And he has faith in God, but there's just some things he doesn't know yet.

SPEAKER_08:

Right. Okay. All right. Uh, brother uh Jeffrey, encouraging servant. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06:

Wow. Good question. Uh no, I don't think he's denying uh the resurrection at all. Uh I think we're seeing again, Jonathan, the words of a man who at this moment is completely, totally broken, and without hope. He has lost, as we've already discussed, absolutely everything. He is in the pit of hell of despair. And he's not seeing any way out. Of course, he will later. God will restore him when this thing blows over, or I should say it plays out. And we're just hearing the words of a man right now who is just probably the most overwhelmed person with the exception of Jesus in the entire Bible.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

I mean, can we think of anybody who has been afflicted besides Christ more than Job has in the entire Word? Many, many, many gave their life, but none of them have suffered like Job has. Because God was the one that allowed him to be suffered. Okay. I think Job, we're just again reading the words of a man who is just absolutely broken and uh minus any hope right now.

SPEAKER_07:

Right.

SPEAKER_08:

Brother Jeff, man of God, what do you think? Did did Jeff would Job deny resurrection? And did and does he and did he and did he know about resurrection?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I'm gonna answer that. The answer is no and no. But what he's saying is when he descends the shield and he won't come back, I he's talking that when you go to the grave, you don't come back to earth. You don't come back, you don't you don't come back to life. You know, I mean, you can take it just to be literal and say that's what that means. You know, he's saying I'm gonna go to the grave and you won't see me again. But I think that he, you know, like Lisa put in the comments that, you know, he says later, I know that my Redeemer lives and he shall stand upon the earth. Um, he he has a close relationship with God that's been passed down through Adam. I mean, he is one of the saved, he is one of the uh elect. And the thing is, he may not know of it directly, but he knows that God will take care of him. That's what I believe.

SPEAKER_07:

All right.

SPEAKER_08:

Um, forever blessed. What do you think?

SPEAKER_07:

Did Job know about resurrection? You're breaking up really nice.

SPEAKER_03:

And I didn't I don't think he was getting or he was denying the resurrection.

SPEAKER_08:

Right. I I I agree. I think I think that when he's speaking here, um, when he says, so he that goes down to the grave shall not come up no more, I do believe you're right. I believe that he is specifically talking here about exiting this sort of this mortal community, you know, the physical life. So I think you're right on that. But I believe that Job knew about the resurrection. And let me, because uh, like brother Jeff just mentioned that that uh Lise commented on this. Lise, are you are you in the in the word right now?

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_08:

Read so read verse, read chapter 19 and read verse 25, and then read verse 26. Okay, tell me what you think.

SPEAKER_02:

Just as you got there, I I I got out Job 19, verse 25, and then 26.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_08:

And then tell me what it and then tell me what it means.

SPEAKER_02:

For I know that my redeemer lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth. 26. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God. Oh, well, that's definitely he knows about the resurrection. He he's speaking. I mean, he knows what he seems to know what we all know. Jesus is coming back, and he's gonna stand on this earth, and it's all gonna be different. Seems like he knows exactly what we know.

SPEAKER_08:

Does anybody think differently about that verse, the interpretation of that verse? Anybody?

SPEAKER_02:

After my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will be glorified, like we know, I shall see God. He's given us all new flesh. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

What does that say? Lisa is right.

SPEAKER_08:

She's right, she's dead right. Dead right. Job knew about resurrection. So when you when you couple, when you couple what Forever was saying, when she talked about how in verse 9 here, Job is speaking about the being exiting from this mortal society. But Lisa's definitely right on the other side of that coin where it talks about he Job knows, he says, I'm going to see my Lord in my flesh. I'm going to see his face, and I'm going to be in my flesh when I do so. Job knew he was going to be alive. And here's another thing. This is critical for a believer to believe. This is critical to this, to what we understand as Christians. This is a sense a central theme. That there's a there's an ex there's an expectation of life to come in the future when we will be in glorified bodies. This was a reason why the Jews took so much care and concern about where they were buried. This is the reason why. So so my friend Billy here says, It seems Job knows about being with God. Do we call that resurrection? Brother, I don't know how to explain it anymore to make it make sense when it says that I will see God in my flesh after I'm dead. That can only mean one thing. Resurrection. Resurrection is the mental doctrine of the Christian faith. There is not a single believer ever in the history of the world that did not believe in resurrection. Not one. There is no possible way to be a believer and not believe and have an expectation to be resurrected. What did David say about his kid? And die. I know I'm gonna see him later. You know, we can go through, we can do a whole study and and and um and look at these saints who understood that they had another life to come that involves their bodies. I see Billy, I I see you, I got your point now. So yeah. So this is an important important thing for us to understand because this is a this is one of the this is one of the most central themes to our our Christian faith. You know, and like Brother Jeff mentioned here, that Christ was the first fruits of our resurrection. And remember that all of these uh types and pre- and things that prefigure this is what is being made manifest when you look at or when we study for us, for instance, the first fruits of the resurrection. I mean that Christ being the first fruit. So but it's a blessing to understand that Job probably being the oldest person spoken about in the Bible in terms of when his narrative took place, his actual narrative life took place, even he knew that what was essential in his faith is that he would see God in his flesh. In his flesh. No problem, Billy. I appreciate you, brother. I really do. So with that, I will end it. We'll pick up at verse 10. Um the next time we we get together, um, but tomorrow I'm gonna deal with lukewarmness. Um, so I'll give everybody their last word and then we'll wrap it up for tonight. And brother Jeff uh encourages, sir, if you wouldn't mind after your last word closing us out. That's okay, brother.

SPEAKER_06:

You got it.

SPEAKER_08:

All right, Sister Candy, last word for tonight.

SPEAKER_01:

Two scriptures. One is um based off of what Lisa just read out of Psalm 7120. It says, Though you have made me see troubles many and bitter, you will restore my life again from the depths of the earth, you will again bring me up. And then I'm gonna go to 1 Peter 5 10. But may the God of all grace who called us his to his eternal glory by Christ Jesus after you have suffered a while, perfect, established, strengthened, and settle you. And then I there was one more, but yeah, Romans 8 18. You care? He says, For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

SPEAKER_08:

Amen. Amen, sister. Um brother Pat, go ahead. Last word for tonight.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, it occurs to me I've been in a lot of real legalistic um religious circles where you lead you lead a double life and you always pretend that everything's okay. You never you never share your pain or sorrow. And uh and Joe Burley shows me that it's okay to be honest about what's going on and not pretending like something terrible happens, your mother passes away. That's a bummer, and it's okay to admit that what you're going through and not be a fake and pretend like it like everything's all right when it's not. Right. So I just wanted to say that.

SPEAKER_08:

I appreciate that, brother, and I appreciate you being here for sure. Um, sister, forever blessed. Last word for tonight, sister. What you think?

SPEAKER_03:

I just see that Joe shows us that no matter what we go through, um the trust that he had in God, even though the pain he endured on the earth was more, he was more geared to no matter what I go through, I'm gonna trust God through it because it seemed like even where it seemed or appeared he lost his hope, his hope at this end of the chapter, I mean, uh what we were just reading, he gained it back. You know, so um it is a great lesson to learn from Job when dealing with suffering and learning how to walk in the spirit and not in the lust of the flesh.

SPEAKER_08:

Amen, sister. Good word there. Thank you for that. Appreciate it. Brother Michael. Last word, brother.

SPEAKER_05:

I just uh amongst Job and all the other Old Testaments of suffering, all the prophets, how they suffered and uh how Solomon talks about everything is in vain as he's looking for all these pleasures and suffering at the same time and and so forth, and and uh then of course our Lord's suffering on the cross for us, and it uh it it just reiterates the hope and promises that we do have through all this, and that we can stay strong through our suffering, and uh we can find joy in it because we know we're being conformed to Christ.

SPEAKER_08:

Amen, brother. And I and I and I hope and pray that things are still going well with you.

SPEAKER_05:

They are, they always will be. Good. His promises will be fulfilled in my life.

SPEAKER_08:

So that's right. That's right. Amen. Because I know you're going through some hard things, but the Lord is with you, man, and you know that. Amen. Um, Brother Jeff, man of God, your last word, brother.

SPEAKER_04:

My last word is that uh I certainly am learning to count it all joy when I encounter trials because the the suffering therein, you know, causes me, I'm paraphrasing, to grow and to be molded into the man that God wants me to be. I mean, uh, if I'd if if I thought that 10 years ago or well, 10 years ago, if I thought I was gonna be like this, but I had to suffer through it, uh, it's all been worth it.

SPEAKER_08:

Right. Amen. It's true, man. It's it's like um, you know, we we have this great hope, um, which is not the hope of something unexpected, it is the hope of that which is clearly uh expected and promised. And that is all wrapped up in Christ, who is our hope. He is the embodiment of our hope. And we have this great expectation, and we're gonna see um, because even now, at our at our at my age, and and Jeff, I know you you know better. I mean, it even at our ages, we look back and we realize it was just a flicker. Our life was just it was we were born and now we're here, and it seemed like everything in between just was a blur. And so, and to be able to have a re the a reflection on our great Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, and to still have it as we get into our later years is the greatest blessing that any person could ever have, just ever have. Sister Lisa, last word.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh man, I I just love these lives. I thank you, Brother Jonathan. Um, I thank you for the way that you um you draw these things out. Um honestly, when I'm sitting here on my own and I'm trying and I'm looking, and um it's just easier to be here. And I when I I when I see some of these things that you're showing us, um, just like this, I I've read that verse that you just that I just read um in Job 19, I don't know, four or five times. And just now it just like clicked, like it just clicked. And it's really funny how that is. You can read something, the same verse um many, many times before, but um when God wants to show you, he just shows you. And that's it, it it seems silly that I got so excited for that, but I really hadn't seen so seen it so clearly until right then. And so it's like, oh my goodness. Anyway.

SPEAKER_08:

No, that's that's the beauty of the glory to God. Yep, absolutely. That's the beauty, sister. That's the beauty. And um, and so I love this, this, this, what we have here because this is what we what we need to do, and because there, you know, there are days that I believe we need to be prepared for. And uh, and if nothing else, we need to be prepared for our death because for us it is a blessed day. It's a blessed day when it comes. So, Brother Jeff, encourage your servant. Your last word and then close us out, brother.

SPEAKER_06:

Well, uh, I'm sitting here thinking how I want to say this, Jonathan. I no none of us want to suffer. But Jonathan, I've often come to the conclusion that sometimes it's good for us because it brings us to a point where we're just more dependent upon God. When we run out of things that we can do in our limited strength, when that runs out, then God can begin to move in a mighty way. So also, as we were talking about suffering tonight, too, my brother, I remembered uh a message that I have in my sermon archives that is called Coping with Suffering. And I'll talk with you about this later. But if you'd like for me to do this one evening and you take an evening off, I'd be happy to give you that evening to just kind of relax and and uh uh uh uh do what you need to do that evening. But uh uh suffering is not something we look forward to at all. But I think if we look at it with the attitude that something good can come from it if we endure it and stay focused on God through it, then something God can do something good with it. So, with that, say Jonathan, thank you for an incredible teaching tonight. As I said earlier, I feel sorry for anybody who couldn't be here tonight. But uh, thank you, panel, uh, for all of your excellent wisdom and input tonight. You all were freaking awesome. So well done. So, Father, let me just give you the credit tonight, Lord, for uh bringing us together, Lord, and showing us what it is about Job's suffering. The man is suffering where we are in the study of the book right now. But Lord, we know that you're gonna do some great things through what he's going to endure, Lord. Things that we can take take strength and solace in, Father, because we know you're gonna be faithful to us. The same way you were faithful to him. So, Father, I pray for the needs of each and every one in this panel tonight. There are those who are rejoicing, there are those who are hurting, there are those who are in need. And Father, we are uh are depending upon you, our great provider. Lord, you provide what we need, when we need it, how we need it, and how much of it we need. Because you know our need before we even bring it to you. Oh, Father God, what a comforting, comforting thought that is. We love you, Father. Good night. We'll see you tomorrow. Look forward to our study tomorrow evening. We're going to be a blessing. Thank you for this group. Lord, grow us not only in numbers, but in spirit. Grow us in wisdom, grow us in strength, grow us to be uh uh provoke and persuade, to encourage and serve, Lord, to be just like you, Lord. We'll give you all the thanks now in Jesus' precious name. Hallelujah. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_05:

Amen.

SPEAKER_07:

Amen, everybody.

SPEAKER_06:

Love you guys. See you tomorrow. All right, man.

SPEAKER_07:

Have a good night, we'll see. See you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_06:

All right, brother. Okay, good night.