The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: (Rev 3:16) "The Lukewarm Christian" (Part 1 of 4)
A single word from Revelation 3 lands like a thunderclap: lukewarm. We step into Laodicea’s world and into our own, asking what Jesus means when He says He will “vomit” the uncommitted out of His mouth. From there, we follow the line from spiritual neutrality to diluted doctrine, examining how attempts to soften hard truths don’t make the gospel kind—they make it weightless.
We unpack the contrast between adiaphora—conscience matters like food, drink, and personal liberties—and a wicked indifference that dodges clear biblical lines. The conversation intensifies as we address the rising claim that annihilation is “good news.” If hell is merely nonexistence, what, exactly, did Jesus save us from? We contend that the eternal Son bore the weight of eternal judgment, and that His infinite worth reveals the gravity of sin and the necessity of repentance. Minimizing judgment doesn’t magnify grace; it erases the need for it.
Together with our panel, we explore why hot and cold are both useful, while lukewarm is rejected; how Laodicea’s tepid water frames our usefulness; and why standing firm where Scripture is clear is an act of love, not harshness. Expect candid pushback, Scripture-driven clarity, and a call to trade comfort for conviction. If your faith has settled into safe neutrality, consider this a wake-up. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs courage to stand, and leave a review with your take: is annihilation compatible with the gospel?
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Christians, how are you doing this evening? I hope all is well. I'm looking forward to tonight's discussion and uh message that we will gather from the Word of God tonight. Um normally I would continue through my exposition of Job, but as I like to do, I like to break things up so that we can um continue to stretch the brain muscles to consider some other things so that we don't get bogged down with one particular theme. And tonight, as I indicated last evening, I want to bring a message to you or and talk to all of you about something that has affected me and perhaps you, I don't know, but it has a lot to do with this um revelation, if that's what you want to call it, regarding uh this new position on the doctrine of eternal punishment as it is now conveyed by Kurt Cameron. And I'm sure all of you have heard, at least if you heard it from me, you've heard it from somebody else. I don't know. But now, as opposed to many decades of believing the truth of the word of God, which speaks about the Lord Jesus Christ and what he does as a savior. There is no way to see him as a savor, savior, in the proper light of the term, unless you understand what it is you are being saved from. Unless you know what it is you are being saved from. This is important to know. Very important to know. Because how do you tell people and try to persuade and convince people that they need to come to Christ to be saved if they don't know what they're being saved from? I find that highly irregular to try to reconcile in my mind. And I hope that you would too. So I'm gonna take a slight detour tonight, breaking away from Job for tonight, and I want to go into the book of Revelation and deal with another verse of scripture, and it is taken from Revelation chapter 3, and I'm gonna start in Revelation chapter 3 and verse 14, and I'm going to focus on verse 16. Here is what the word of God says, and it's the Lord Jesus Christ saying, unto the angel, or the pastor, the shepherd, the messenger, unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans, write these things, says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God, and our Lord says, I know your works, that you are neither cold nor are you hot. I could wish that you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth. The Lord Jesus Christ here says some very stark words. And these words ought to be meaningful to every Christian. He says, because you are neither, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, and we will deal with that. But he says that because you are neither cold or hot, but lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth. And when he says spit you or spew you, I don't know what version you have, but the word is translated vomit. This is the word that our savior is using. If you are lukewarm, he says, I will vomit you out of my mouth. Now, listen, you can manufacture any kind of an idea that you want as it pertains to the glory of God, what Christ does, how he does things, what he does, but you cannot escape the inescapable. He tells the lukewarm that I will spit you out of my mouth. I would rather you would be hot, I would rather you be cold, but when you come to me lukewarm, I will vomit you out of my mouth. Now, earlier than usual in these discussions, I'm going to reach out to everyone here on the panel. Everyone here on the panel. And my question to all of you is going to be this What does the Lord mean in your mind? I don't want you going to your study Bibles while we're having a conversation. I want to know what you actually think. Christians today don't think. I can't watch you, I can't tell you, but I want to know what it is you think. Because here's the thing when it comes to us believers, studying the word of God to show ourselves approved, workmen that need not be ashamed, we have to have some modicum of responsibility and accountability to the Lord, to the Holy Spirit, to our Savior, to be able to give an answer to those who would ask of us of these things. So I'm asking you to answer this question. What does Christ mean when he says lukewarm? And that if you are lukewarm, I will vomit you out of my mouth. But the question I want to get the answer to is what do you believe he is saying and he is intending to convey to us as to what lukewarm is? What is he talking about? And this is important to be able to ask, to be able to ask, answer these questions when we are asked by someone of whom we are sharing biblical truth with. And this is important. And then I'll get into what we're talking about. Let me start with Brother Jeffrey, encouraging servant. Lukewarm. Welcome, brother.
SPEAKER_07:And what does that mean to you? Good evening, Jonathan, and good evening, panel. Boy, we got a good-looking panel in here tonight. We're gonna have some fun and we're gonna learn some stuff. Okay, lukewarm. To me, Jonathan means I know someone knows about Jesus, but they don't know Jesus. They know about him up here in their head, but he's not living in their heart. In other words, they're 18 inches from uh eternity. They're still in hell, and they're only 18 inches away because he's in it, their head, but he hasn't done the work necessary in them to bring about salvation. That's what it means to me.
SPEAKER_08:All right. Um we got it we got somebody new up here. Uh oh no, my name is Grace. Go ahead. Uh Joni, what do you think?
SPEAKER_09:Do I look funny up there? That's my granddaughter, by the way.
SPEAKER_08:All right, what do you think, sister?
SPEAKER_09:What do I think? I think um that it's somebody that calls themselves a Christian but tolerates uh sin. Uh they don't stand up for what is right.
SPEAKER_08:Okay, I like that. I like that. Um, Sister Sean, lukewarm, what does it mean?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so um to me, lukewarm means that you are religious, but you're not transformed. Right. Why? Because he said he's talking to the church, essentially, right? So these people are religious people. They're going to church, but they are not transformed. So they're lukewarm.
SPEAKER_08:Okay, I like that. Sister Lisa, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I would agree with Sister Sean, um, and just add to that that they are of no use to the Lord. If you're lukewarm, you're not useful. I mean, we all know what he the story of the water, that cold water is refreshing, warm or hot water is soothing, and if you are lukewarm, it is of no use. It's you might as well throw it out. So um, I would say these are people who who claim the name Jesus, um, and like like Sister Sean says, are are not they're not they're not um like doing the great commission. They're not doing anything, um they're not useful to him.
SPEAKER_08:All right. Um, Brother Jeff, man of God, what do you think? What is lukewarm?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's kind of interesting. I read somewhere, and this wasn't a study Bible I just cracked open, it's something I've read in a while back, that basically there was there was uh there was a source of water to Laceia that was mixed from a cold water stream and from a hot spring and formed lukewater to the lukewarm part of the city, which was not potable, wasn't drinkable, and uh so therefore of no use. And uh the the thing that strikes me is the mixing, and I think that uh a lukewarm uh person that he's talking to is somebody that's that's uh carnal, you know, and and the others have said this too, but I'm just saying it a different way, that they've mixed the world with the Lord, and uh they don't belong together, they're at war with each other, and so they're of no use to him, and he he he shuns them because you know they're like strandling the fence, they're not committed. Uh and uh that's what it means to me.
SPEAKER_08:Right, all right, Sister Candy, lukewarm, what is it?
SPEAKER_05:What believes me is thorny grounds. I I can hardly hear you, sister. You gotta speak up. Thorny grounds. Those that know the word, but don't take it seriously, and so therefore, they just gotta take the word of God and apply it to what they want it to mean for them instead of what really means. Right. All right, my new famous word for today is frigalty. Frible? Do you know what the word frigalty means?
SPEAKER_08:You mean frivolity?
SPEAKER_05:F-R-I-B. Yeah, there you go. Okay, yeah, that word. Okay. I like that word. I found the definition out for it today. Yeah, to me that is exactly what lukewarm is. Go from go play and lead people astray with idle battling and that 30 gram.
SPEAKER_08:Amen. All right, all right, that's good. Brother Penn, what do you think, brother? Lukewarm. What is the Lord talking about?
SPEAKER_00:I think he's talking about people who try to make Christ, they change Christ and the message of the gospel to be more palatable to this world. They think, like Brother Jeff said, that they can be somewhere in the middle and that it's somehow uh a loving thing to do, right? Oh, damnation, that's the judgment of God. It's not so bad. You know what I mean? It's not so bad. You're not such a bad person. And I think I think what the writer is saying here is it's revolting and disgusting what you're doing. And you it and this this church would be better if you would get out of the way and allow a person who is uh who is cold water to do the work that you should be doing.
SPEAKER_08:Right. You know, everyone has been giving a good answer. I want to say one thing about this because one of the things that comes that comes about a lot in these discussions is is the spring that was located in Leodicea. You know, and you will hear people say, I think somebody in the comments said, I can't, I can't I can't recall who who said it, but I think somebody said there's a spring where you could turn on hot water, you could turn on cold water, and I think Brother Jeff said something about that. But the reality is, and I will, and I will challenge everyone to look this up, is that there was a water supply in Laodicea. But the water supply in Laodicea, according to history, was always dispensing teapid water. The water was always coming out of there in a loop in loop in as lukewarm. That's how it always came out. And so the, and this is important to understand, because the water comes out lukewarm, and when it becomes useful, it is when you take that water and you either chill it or you heat it for use, for proper use, where it is enjoyed for whatever reason, whether it's bathing, whether it's cooking, whether whatever it may be. But so what everybody's saying, I think is very is very good. Mariah, go ahead. I'm sorry that I forgot to get to you, sister. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Um I I just wanted to say that I find my answer to be um in the next verse, where it's he's saying that these people don't understand their spiritual condition. They think that they're rich, they think that they um need not of anything, and um in fact, they don't realize that they are in need, um, that they are poor, wretched, naked, and blind. And so I think it's um um the uselessness of understanding their spiritual condition and that yes, they are religious people, but they have not yet had a spiritual life given to them. That's why he says repent and you know, come. So that's my understanding on the situation.
SPEAKER_08:Right, I appreciate that. So here's here's one thing. Here's a here's a word that I want to that I want to bring out. Is it there's a coine Greek word, not in the Bible though, but nonetheless a coin Greek word. And the word is a diaphragma. Adiaphora. Now, here's what adiaphora means. And I need to lay this out so that we can make the distinction uh between uh what Christ is talking about here and a diaphragm. Because a diaphragm means things that are indifferent or indifferent things, indifferent, things of indifference. In other words, look at it this way there can be actions, habits, rituals that are not morally binding, going one way or the other. For example, for example, you might think that it is a wicked, evil sin to smoke cigarettes or cigars or whatever. Some of you might think that that's wicked and evil. There are others like me who enjoy a cigar, and I like cigars, and this is considered something that is indifferent. It is it has to do with how you exercise your Christian liberty, and like Blazing Rose says, it is a thing of conscience. For example, another one. You may believe for some that it that for you it is evil to drink wine, others have no problem drinking wine. This is a matter of what is called adiafra, it is a thing of indifference. Some people say you shouldn't eat pork. It is a matter of indifference or it is a diaphragma. There are many things like that. So the reason why I'm bringing this up because this is very different than what we're talking about in terms of lukewarm. In terms of lukewarm. Here's what lukewarm is lukewarm is spiritual neutrality, it is spiritual neutrality, or it is a wicked indifference. It's a wicked indifference. In other words, where things ought to be clear, one way or the other, you have a sort of blending, a neutral and you have the tendency to equivocate. Brother Cod said it right. He says, You stand for nothing. You don't stand for anything. You're the person that's always trying to see the bright side of everything. That's what this person is. And so, what inspired me to want to have this discussion was. With all of you, my brother and sisters, is what a guy telling me, a brother who a man who I believe, you know, you know, and I, you know, I told him something that I believe that he was saying and he was speaking to me about. So I don't want to do uh the very thing I was accusing him of. A good friend of mine, brother, his name is Eric. He comes on here. I love the brother. He has a good ministry, but he told me that when it came to this thing with Kirk Cameron, speaking about annihilation, this is his new revelation of truth, that annihilation is the biblical perspective he now has. After decades of understanding that that hell is eternal retribution consciously, he has changed from that view, which is the biblical true view, and now he adopts this doctrine of annihilation, which is completely false. But my brother, my brother here, he said to me, and I'm only saying it because he said it, so I'm assuming that he tells everyone that, which is this, that it doesn't matter. He his idea is that it doesn't matter if you believe in annihilation, it doesn't matter if you believe in eternal condemnation consciously, it doesn't matter because you're separated from God either way. So he says it doesn't matter. This is what lukewarm is. There is a biblical truth that should not be even the slightest grounds in it within it, contained within it, for Christians to be in dispute about. It was from reading Matthew 10, when Christ says, do not fear him who can destroy the body and I mean who can destroy the body and do no more, but rather fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. I became a believer instantly upon reading that for the first time, when I was 18 in boot camp, in the Navy, behind my bunks. Now, has someone or anyone at any point ever told me that the consequences of my sin, the worst of my consequences, is the fact that I would no longer exist anymore, that would not necessarily make me fear God, let alone turn to him in faith. And so when I listen, as I did in a post earlier, to Kirk Cameron saying, this is great news that I get to tell other people who reject Christ because they say I can't believe in a merciless God who punishes people or torments people eternally. I can't believe, he says, people who who turn to Christ or reject God because of that, he says, this is good news, coming to the conclusion that you will just be annihilated, and he considers that good news to be able to tell them so that they will now come to faith. So now the good news of the gospel is not about what Christ did, it is not about the salvation that comes to us by the death of the eternal Son of God. And note the word eternal, the eternal son of God. So that's not really the good news, really, when you think about it from Kurt Cameron's new position. The good news is that even if you reject Christ and remain dead in your sin and trespasses, your condemnation is going to be to no longer exist. That is what he constitutes as good news. And if you don't believe me, go look at the last video that I posted and you will see it in his own words. You'll see it in his own words. Brother Jeff, encourage your serving. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_07:Jonathan, let's take this a step further, if we could, please, sir. To reject the teaching of hell is to look Jesus into his eye and call him a liar. Because when he was here on earth in his public ministry, Jonathan, he preached and taught more about staying out of hell than he did about his father's kingdom. Yes, he told us some things about his father's kingdom, but he warned us more about what was necessary to stay out of eternal hell than getting into his father's kingdom. Right. To embrace that, Jonathan, is to just to look him in the face and call him a liar to his face. See, that's what's got me riled up about Kirk Cameron. He's calling God a liar and he hasn't figured it out yet.
SPEAKER_08:And see, let me let me let me say this to you, because people were going like, well, this guy said to me, Well, no, you don't know if Kirk Cameron's not saved. I never said, I never said one word about whether or not he's saved or not. But I will say this. I do not believe a Christian can tell can be telling people that there is no hell and it's not eternal. I don't believe a Christian would be saying that. Now, because I want to go on the record saying that. No true believer, especially someone who's been a Christian for 30 plus years, who has known all this time that hell was eternal retribution for sins committed against an eternal God, the eternal God. And then you wake up one day and decide, because you talked to some guy, Edward Fudge or whatever it is, that, oh, now I get it. And in fact, not only do I get it, but this is great news. No, it's not great news, it's a lie. Kurt Cameron is lying. And we are told in the scriptures that those who pretend to be us, who are not us, but look like us, at some point they will it will be revealed that they were never of us. And this is how I view him to this day. And I don't care what anybody says for the to me about it. I am not gonna win a popularity contest on this platform or anywhere saying this. This man is preaching a wicked, demonic lie. It's a big lie, and it's a big one. A big one. And the reason why I want to say this to everybody, because here's the reason why it matters so much. Because some people may be listening to me going like, well, you know, that doesn't really matter. It does. Because what you are saying, when you say that all men who reject Christ, who die in their sins, for the penalties or for the sins committed against God, you are what I'm saying, what the problem is you are devaluing. You are devaluing what Christ did for us on that cross. Not only that, you are devaluing his value. Remember, it was a necessity for the salvation of any man, even if it was just one, it was an absolute necessity. Because of what even a single sin would mean before God, which would be eternal condemnation, the eternal Son of God was the only one who could redeem us because he was righteous and holy, and more importantly, because he was eternal. He was eternal. So when you say that the penalty due to sinners against the thrice holy God, if it is unpaid by Christ, then it has eternal consequences because you violated and sinned against the eternal God. He is the lawgiver, he is the judge, he is the jury, and he is the one who gives the sentence. This is not the American Supreme Court. This is what people don't understand. This is the Lord God Almighty of all.
SPEAKER_05:Sister Sean, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:So this verse is telling us that it's to awaken the seriousness about judgment and eternal separation. So to say that that's the good thing that you will just no longer exist, well, that's not true if we're talking about scripture, right? Because, you know, 2 Thessalonians tells us 1 and 8 that they will be punished with an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. That's right. So to minimize the punishment, what you're doing is you're you're making people think that I can do whatever now.
SPEAKER_08:But what, but Sean, here's the thing. Here's the thing that I want to make sure that we all understand. Because what you said is 100% correct. But I want to add one more thing to that, and this is the thing that I really want to bring home. You are minimizing the value of Christ. You see what I'm saying? You're evaluating his value. If if if our salvation, I mean, if our condemnation is not eternal, then there was no reason for the eternal Son of God to come here for us. It is saying that it is it is basically saying this Christ needed to go beyond what was required because all we were going to do is be annihilated. And this is this is what see the thing about it is Christ bore the eternal, and see, this is what people don't understand about the Lord Jesus Christ. We look at the fact that he was on that cross Friday until he was on the cross Friday night until he took him down. But here's the thing all of God's eternal wrath that was that was due to all of mankind for their sin against him was all of it put on the Lord Jesus Christ, his eternal wrath, and it could only be put on Christ in a way that can serve for our atonement because he was eternal. So there's a direct correlation to the quality of his person and the quality of our existence. In other words, if you accept him and believe him and trust him, your salvation, you will be saved, and your life will be eternally with him. If you reject it, because of the quality of his person and the quality and heinousness of your sin, you're going to deal with this sin for eternity. This is what men need to understand. It's not about comparing men with men, this is about looking at who it is that we offended. And this is what men need to do: understand who it is that we offended and to understand the sinfulness of our own sin. Because remember, an eternity of condemnation forever is what every single one of us would deserve, even if all we did, even if only one person, if all they did was commit one sin. And I'm gonna take it a step further. If you only, if only one man that ever existed, that was created, if only one man had it in him, in his heart, the seed to sin. In other words, if he had what we will call concupiscence, in other words, the tendency to sin, all we need to have within us is the tendency to sin. And the tendency to commit one sin will be enough to destroy a million planets of sinners. People don't understand how grievous and how how hateful God is towards sin and the sinners. This is what people don't understand, and so this is what we must reckon with, and this is what we need to make the people who we share with understand. Sister Candy, go ahead. Candy, you there?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, you kind of threw me off of what I was gonna say with what you was just saying. But I'm not I don't know, I'm kind of you kind of got me kind of like not really sure what we're talking about, whether it's eternal hell or the lukewarm.
SPEAKER_08:We're talking about home. What I'm saying is this. Let me let me make it clear, all right? So here's what I'm saying, and the hell part is one example. So, as I said, there was a gentleman who told me that it doesn't matter if you believe in annihilation or if you believe in eternal hell. He said it doesn't matter. As long as you are a believer in Christ, whether you believe in annihilation or whether you believe in eternal retribution, he said it doesn't matter. That is what the definition of being lukewarm is. Does that make sense or no?
SPEAKER_06:Okay, that okay, thank you because that's where you had me at, and I raised my hand, and then we went on to the rest, and I kind of lost that part. So that part Well, that's what I was gonna go with was Proverbs 28, 21. Right. So that was to show partiality is not good. Because for a piece of bread, a man will transgress. So I see that as a lukewarm person.
SPEAKER_08:How's that?
SPEAKER_06:Because for a piece of bread, they will do whatever it takes, which means good or bad.
SPEAKER_08:I I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, all right, all right. That's like buying the truth and selling it, but we're not supposed to sell it, nor wisdom, instruction, and understanding, but they do. So that's kind of why I related it to the thorny grounds because they go and they hear this, even though they may have came into the faith of a little bit of understanding and knowledge and wisdom and instruction, but then they were choked up by falseness and the lukewarm of well, just like the serpent said to Eve, surely you won't when God says you will. And then we see it all the time in TikTok where, well, that's not what that's saying, even though from word for word it is what it's saying. So again, it's taking God's word serious for what it says. Right. Because the scripture backs itself up with other scripture. So that that that frivolty, I mean, there there's again, I did a lot of research today on it, and the Bible spoke for itself, like literally, it's everywhere. Ecclesiastes chapter 2, Ecclesiastes 1.14, and then you know, two above and below, but 2 Timothy, 1 Timothy, it's everywhere. James, James 1, James 2, James 4, James 5. It's a all that's in there, what you're talking about tonight. And I mean, it's some serious stuff that we see every day happening that people, and I get what you're saying because if if it's almost like if you sit and let someone believe something that's being said or and don't care, it doesn't matter, but it does because that goes back to that frivolity, is that how you pronounce it? Sorry, the per the frivolity of it, because it's serious, you don't just not care, right? You have to care, that's what it is. It's it's care, it's a carefree, like you don't care about nobody else's, you don't care about what what's the one thing that that we're supposed to do? The well-being of others. We're supposed to care about the well-being of others over ourselves, right?
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_06:And that's the part of it is for them to sit there and lead someone and astray from faith, then that's what they're doing. All right. If that makes sense. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_08:Mr. Sean, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I just want to uh piggyback off what you said about uh because this I I've never, you know, Kirk Cameron, I never heard of him. But this idea that, you know, there's no ongoing suffering, but that the wicked are just, you know, never this.