The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: (Rev 3:16) "The Lukewarm Christian" (Part 2 of 4)
Start with the hard question most avoid: if Scripture promises everlasting life, what does it mean when it warns of everlasting condemnation? We walk straight into the tension, tracing how the Bible frames death not as a stopped heartbeat, but as separation from God’s favor. Using Luke 16 as a guide, we draw a crucial line between torture (unjust suffering) and torment (just judgment), and show how the gravity of sin magnifies the glory of Christ’s salvation. If the penalty is small, the Cross is small; if the penalty is eternal, the Savior’s worth shines with eternal weight.
From there, we turn to Laodicea and the scandal of lukewarm faith. Christ’s image is visceral for a reason: compromise makes Him sick. Lukewarmness isn’t loud rebellion; it’s mixed devotion—truth blended with worldliness and fashionable errors about resurrection, reincarnation, or annihilation. We challenge the easy branding of “Bible-believing church,” arguing that interpretation, not marketing, separates health from harm. Hermeneutics becomes the hinge: how we read Scripture determines how we live by it, especially on doctrines with eternal stakes like hell, salvation, and repentance.
We also get practical and pastoral. A listener asks how to help people in deep despair without soft-pedaling the gospel. Our answer: God sends specific people to your path because your voice can carry His grace. Speak the unvarnished truth with the temperament He gave you, and trust results to Him. Seeds of hard truth often bloom years later. Finally, we parse the visible and invisible church to explain why Scripture can rebuke “churches” that include both wheat and tares. Revelation 3:19–20 is not a sales pitch to outsiders; it’s a summons to professing believers to repent, be zealous, and stop living in the gray.
If this conversation sharpened your convictions, share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Your support helps more listeners trade lukewarm comfort for wholehearted faith. Where do you need to take a stand today?
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It really, it really does downplay what he went through because the scripture tells us that he suffered. He suffered for us. So to think that the wicked will not suffer, that it really downplays it. And one scripture refutes that whole idea, right? Because when we look at Luke 16, it tells us that in it talks about a uh rich man and how he lifted up his eyes from hell and he was in torment. Right. And so, you know, what you do, you will be punished for sins committed.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And the scripture says this.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And no, it's clear. It's clear. I don't know how, I don't know how it can be plainer, but it's, you know, it's especially when you look at passages which were in the same verse, you will hear the Lord talking about himself, talking about everlasting life and everlasting condemnation. But when it comes to everlasting life, that means for this for the Christian, life eternal, eternal life. But but somehow, when he talks about everlasting death, they can't understand that that means eternal death. Because they see the people see the word death and they associate death with the stopping of the heartbeat. Death is not the stopping of the heartbeat. Death is separation from the favor of God. And notice that I and I said this specifically: separation from God's favor. Because what the wicked do, what the unbeliever does, who rejects Christ and remains in their sin, they have chosen to go stand before the bar of God's holy justice and stand there of their own accord without Christ as their intercessor or mediator. That's what they're doing. I'm going to stand here and make my own case. Christ can't make my case better than what I can make for myself. That's what they're saying. And so Christ being the eternal Son of God, and it was necessary that he, as the eternal Son of God, would put himself in our stead as our surety, that is because of his eternal nature and being eternally righteous and holy, then he is the only one that can thwart, circumvent, and eradicate the eternal nature of or the eternal consequences of what we deserve, which is eternal condemnation. Now you when you know, like you got these people talk about, they make a distinction, they don't make a distinction. They talk about um, well, they do. They talk about God is bad and it's it's not good that God would torture people forever. It's not torture. Torture is what people don't deserve. Torment is what they do deserve. And so this is what this is what people don't understand, and they have to make that distinction. But we're gonna get into that. Brother Pat, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:You know, um, if I get a a jaywalking fine and someone pays that fine for me, that's a nice thing, but it's not life-changing at all. Right. And let's uh let's up it a little bit. Let's say I get a a drunk driving charge and somebody gets me out of that trouble. Um, that probably helps my life. Does it save my whole life? No, no, but I'd be thankful, right? Let's say that I get that somebody saves me from a trip, a triple unaliving charge. That person's just saved my life, and that it means everything. And so my point is there's a direct correlation between the severity of the punishment and the glorification of the salvation.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Absolutely, absolutely. So, in this verse here, our Lord says, So, so because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I'll spit you out of my mouth. So, first thing we understand he's talking to those who are believers, he's talking to professors of the truth, those who we will call Christians. That's who he's talking to. He addresses the head of the church, and he says that this whole this whole um perspective that the Church of Labosia has is uh they are unified in this. This is important because somebody might make the argument, and I'm just anticipating this possibility. Well, he was only talking to the whole church, not to the individuals, which it's a silly argument to make if someone would do that, because it is individuals that make up the church. But here's the point here. The point is this is that when you have the head of a church, the leader, the passenger, the pastor, or whatever it may be, if he's teaching these things to people that are where his position is that these things don't matter. It doesn't matter if you believe in reincarnation, it doesn't believe matter if you believe in annihilation, it doesn't matter if you believe in um resurrection, it doesn't matter if you believe in any of these things. As long as you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, all these, your position on all these other things that are clear, they don't matter. Well, if the pastor, if the leader of the church is preaching this way, then it is going to funnel down to the sheep under his shepherdship or under his or under his stewardship. It's going to impact them. My wife and I were talking the other day, and we were talking about, because she asked me a question, because we're we're going to take a little trip in the next day or two, and we're going to go to this other, we're going to visit this other church. And we were looking for churches, and you have all these churches that say we're just a Bible church. Just a Bible church. Or we just focus on Bible exposition. But we're Bible churches. She asked me, What's a Bible church? I said that's what every church that has a Bible says that they are. And yet, all these churches, all these denominations, they all say they're Bible churches. If you go to a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall, they're going to tell you they are a Bible-believing church. If you go to the Mormon church, they're going to tell you they are a Bible-believing church. If you go to any non-denominational church, they are all Bible-believing churches. But the fact of the matter is, they're not. All these places, and I'm going to say to some of these, well, the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, they may claim to be Bible-believing churches, but what happens is they don't tell you about how they come to the conclusions that they come to in the Bible. And so it's such a problem. It's such a problem. But like Brother Kyle says, it's just marketing. They will tell you whatever it takes to get you in the door to start writing those tithing checks. But when a church says we are just a Bible-believing church, that says nothing. That says absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Because when you read hell about hell in the Bible, and one church will say, oh no, hell means annihilation. Oh no, hell means that you can go there and you can come out of there later. Or no, hell means you go into purgatory and you come out later as well. And somebody else can get their righteous deeds can be transferred to you so that you can be saved by the righteousness of someone else who's not Christ, by the way. This is what the Catholics believe. But yet, all of these denominations, they all have Bibles in their pews. They all have Bibles there. And so, and so Bible-believing church means diddly squat to me. How are you interpreting the scriptures? This is what matters. This is what matters. How do we understand what the Bible is saying? And when we understand what it says clearly, do we take that and live that? Because very few churches are going to tell you the truth. So when we read what's happening in Laodicea, Christ is talking to the pastor or the angel of the that church, which is the pastor. And what Christ is saying to that pastor is this He's saying that it starts with you, and then it funnels downhill. It funnels downhill, it rolls downhill. Sister Sean, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm just from hearing about this situation that you're telling us about, it just reminds me of something. And I remember you said something back when we were talking about Job. You said that uh something to this effect that true believers cannot curse God. You you said something to that effect.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And speaking on this, um, I'm reminded of Matthew 24 and 24, and it says that false prophets will arise. And it said that um if it were possible, they shall deceive. It's if it were possible, that means that the deception will be strong enough to fool everyone except the elect, right? That's how strong the deception would be. But the scripture says that God keeps them, right? And he keeps those that are chosen, he preserves them. And so that's why it's important, like I said, to continue, and I talk about this all the time, continuing in the faith that you won't be deceived when things come up against you. Right. Because the elect cannot be deceived.
SPEAKER_02:Right. You know, it's it's like it's like, and the reason why the elect can't be deceived is because of the one who elected them, who preserves them in this faith. That's why they can't be deceived. And so, and so it is God who keeps his holy hedge around his people, like he did, Sister Sean, with with Job. You know, no matter how much the no matter how much we are afflicted, those of us who belong to him and who are called by his name and who was chosen to be a part of that flock, for whom Christ would die for, these people can never fail. Not because it is in them not to fail, but because it is God who keeps us from failing. He does that. He does that. And Christ, in this passage here, he gives a stark warning. He says, if you are lukewarm, I will vomit you out of my mouth. And this is something that we need to talk about a little bit. Because he says, I will vomit you out. Now, all of us, it's nasty, but we have all had this experience. Whether it's when we were young or whatever, and we had too much to drink, or we got a bug in our stomach, or food poisoning, whatever. We all know what it's like to vomit. We all know what it's like. And one thing about vomiting is that it's involuntary. When it comes, it comes. There's no stopping it. When it comes, it comes. And this is what Christ is saying. And he he's it's not like he's it's not like he's just saying, he's he's saying what lukewarmness does to him. It makes him sick to his stomach, to the point where he must vomit it out. Where he must vomit it out. These words describe a spiritual condition, which is not necessarily dealing with being hostile toward Christ. In other words, being lukewarm is not just about being hostile toward Christ, because a lukewarm person, again, they're not necessarily hostile toward Christ. It's not that not even, it's not not even it's not even a an issue of whether or not they have no zeal for Christ, but they have a dullness about them. They have a dull, lifeless indifference, that they mingle with what is good. And they hold to a lot of and embrace a lot of the things that worldliness, worldliness will will embrace that the world will embrace, and they mix it. And when they mix it, it becomes lukewarm. This is what he's talking about. You can have, you can be, uh, you can be emphatic about certain things. People will look at you and go, man, this dude is on fire. This woman's on fire. She's always out there preaching, she's always out there doing this. But then in other, in other areas, she's going like, well, you know, the resurrection thing, ah, I think I believe in reincarnation. Uh, I believe in annihilation, oh, I believe in this these other kind of things. You don't need to do this, you don't need to do to do that. It's not an issue of salvation. But Christ says that when you mix these things, they become lukewarm. He is, in a sense, saying this. When he says, I rather you be hot or cold, he's giving pretty much the way I see it, and some of you might uh disagree, but he's almost saying that you're that that I got more respect for an atheist than I do for a lukewarm Christian. More respect for an atheist than a lukewarm Christian. Because at least they stand on what they believe. They stand firmly on it. And so Fry says, I'd rather you be hot or cold. But lukewarm, we got problems with that. Brother Jeff, go ahead. Encourage and servant.
SPEAKER_04:Hot versus uh versus lukewarm or and cold. Cold, God is saying, look, if you were cold, I could do something to help you and get you hot again. If you were hot, I wouldn't have to, because you're already there. But since you're a little bit of it's like being a little bit of both, Jonathan, and not enough of neither. That's where they are. God doesn't know what to do with them. Right. There's no definite commitment there to him. I mean, they're they're one foot in, one foot out. So God is saying to us, which is it? Pick one. Right. It's not hard. There is no third option. Be hot, be cold, do one of them, but do something.
SPEAKER_02:Take a stand, is what he's saying. Take a stand. Uh, brother Memphis, go ahead, brother, and welcome to uh our live tonight. I think this is your first time here, so I appreciate you being here. But go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you, and I appreciate the time, man, and and and uh praise Jesus. Uh I'm a firm believer. Um what I struggle with is nothing that you've come across, but uh there's other other I don't even know what you call them, podcasts or whatever, but you know, I try to come on board with somebody like you, and man, it's all fun and and we enjoy you know each other's praise and this stuff. There's folks out there hurting, man, and there's people out there that are I don't mean I'm not even gonna touch on atheists, but people that are suicidal. And and I'm like, you know, I can't give you my faith because my faith is so strong that you know, I know everything's gonna be okay in my world. Uh man trying to pull them a little bit into your world so that they can maybe breathe a little bit. I mean, how do you coach folks that are dealing with this? I mean, thank God. I got four kids, man. They're all adults. I mean, I say adults, they're they're 20 to 22 to 32. Um but they live like we lived. I I was born in 71. Um, so but man, I don't want them to hurt like that. I don't want them to see things that make them think that, man, you're you're not l you're not looking past that curtain. You know what I mean?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Um and I I I wanna I can't preach to them, but I want to give them something. You know, how do you how do you talk to people that feel like shit, it's over, you know, it's this is it. I don't know what else, you know, I don't know what else. Well, here's here's what I'll say.
SPEAKER_02:Like like there is a way that you can talk to your children. No, my kids are good.
SPEAKER_05:I'm talking about people online, I'm trying to help.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Well, it's the same for you know for all these people as well. It's like it's like there, you know, God sends us, He sends, He puts people in front of us that he intends for us to communicate to. And you know when that's the case, because you encounter them. And so the way I look at it is like, it's like this. Because like like Brother Memphis, you and my brother Jeffrey and Lisa and everybody here, we all have it, we all have a different uh disposition. We all have different we're all different characters, basically. And so when somebody is struggling with anything, like you said, like you mentioned some of those, some of those struggles that people have, and they come across our path, what you have to recognize is that God brought them in front of your path, God made you the way you are, so the way you are somehow is going to be able to be relatable to them in terms of how you say it or whatever. Like, to me, I'm my thing, my for me, for my personality, I'm always thinking like, oh boy, this person doesn't realize what's about to happen because you know because how I'm talking now is how I always talk. This is the way I always do. I don't change it up for anybody. And so I and so the way I look at it is that when God sends me to somebody, it's because he wants them to hear it the way I tell it. And so everybody here has a different personality. And he and he uses that personality to go for you to go out and reach the reach that that person that he. Put in front of you. The issue is, are you going to stand up for the truth? Because what happens is sometimes we we start making wholesale judgments on what it's going to take in order for that person to hear what you're saying. So so what happens is people start accommodating. So and what I mean by that, they start trying to acquiesce to the person they're talking to. Well, I'm not going to say this because if I talk about hell, it's going to turn them off.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I get that for sure.
SPEAKER_02:You see what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so what I'm saying is, you can't do that. Reflect on who you are as a servant of the Lord and know that when he sends you to talk to that person or that group of people, whoever it may be, he already knows how he made you, and that's the reason why he put you there. For you to say it the way he puts it in you to say.
SPEAKER_05:There's not always answers to questions, but I appreciate it. Everything that you said, and uh I got nothing but love for you. And uh I appreciate it, man. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate it, man. And listen, I'm I'll I'll say this, and I say this over and over and over again. There is no vocation on this earth more difficult than being a Christian. It's difficult. And the first thing that we always want to do is we want to soft pedal. We don't want to scare them off. You can't scare anyone off from telling them God's incontrovertible truth.
SPEAKER_05:So you you believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins?
SPEAKER_02:I sure do, with all my heart and soul. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:That that's what I'm all about. And so being I'm 55 years old too, man, and and knowing that so this didn't start, you know, yesterday, as far as my faith goes. Faith to me is everything. Right. I whisper in Jesus' ear every night when I go to bed, please keep walking beside me and carry me when you see fit. And when I wake up in the morning, I say thank you for the day and let's go again. Um but you we're dealing with a younger generation, man, that just doesn't get that unbelievable blind faith. And that's what I have. And and you know, I've seen things, you know. I mean, we've seen things. I don't know how old you are, but you know, I've seen things that has proven, even though he didn't need to prove, that uh I know God's real, you know, and I know I know Jesus was sent here to save my ass. And excuse me, save my soul. And uh and and and I I try to uh I'm sorry. I'm I try to push that over to other people too. And you know, some people take it, some people don't, and that's okay. And I think that what you've taught me is like, you know, you can cast the net, man, but you're not gonna catch everybody, you know? So keep throwing the net out, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Not only you're not gonna catch everybody, but here's here's the problem. Here's the thing here. Too many of us are focused on results that we think we can elicit. Who's we? Me and you? Me, you and me. Christians. You know?
SPEAKER_05:All right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So what I'm saying is what we have to do is give the uncut, unvarnished truth. We don't soft pedal the gospel. And and we and we and we share with people the way God equipped us to do that. And it's all different. Some people are soft-spoken, some people are have a gentle spirit, some people God sends to speak with people who's who are just on the verge of being completely crushed. And if that person, God is probably not gonna send me. But he might send you. He might send Sean, he might send Ken. It just, you know, he knows what he's doing. I'm ready. But what I do know is this whatever makeup that he has constituted you as a servant, he will send you where it is needful for you as a means of grace from him to affect that other soul, one way or the other. I don't go out looking for, I used to go out and thinking that I'm gonna be so persuasive that I'm gonna convince people like a lawyer in a courtroom. But I've learned over time.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You tell them and you let it go. And you never know, brother, because 10 years, 15 years, 20 years later, you might get that call. Somebody calls you up and says, or they see you at the fairgrounds, or see you at a at a at a mall or something, and say, Brother, you remember me? You stopped me when I was over here, or I came to you and I asked you about this question, and you told me about something, and I was furious about what you said. I didn't like it, but I want to let you know that what you said to me changed my life.
SPEAKER_05:It's awesome, man.
SPEAKER_02:That's the way it works.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I appreciate it. Hey, look, I love you, man. I'm gonna hit the sack.
SPEAKER_02:God bless you, brother. Come back anytime.
SPEAKER_05:Thanks for letting me join. I'll see you again.
SPEAKER_02:I hope so, brother. Take it easy. So, um, moving on with this with this whole thing about lukewarm. We you know it's the kind of thing where we have to understand because what the luke-minded, what the lukewarm Christian is, is someone who refuses to deal with anything that might be controversial, and they want to be people pleasers. They want to scratch itching ears. They're not concerned about the pain of the surgeon's knife, which always in the end brings healing. And so it is very often where we're saying, like, I don't want to say this because I don't want to turn them away. Because I don't want to turn them away. This whole idea, this whole perspective of being neutral about everything, it doesn't help anyone. It hurts more people than we know. And even though, and let's say for for for the sake of saying so, maybe you are saved. Maybe you may you're making a mistake, but maybe it's something that God 10 years from now or five years from now or one week from now is going to um still save you anyway, in spite of it. But the issue is how many souls do you damage along the way because you refuse to tell the whole truth? And my thing is, I think that we we should speak very little except for those things that we know and we feel confident that we have a firm grasp on and understand. But to tell people that it doesn't matter what it is, that's not the right way to do it. But this lukewarmness is not just about like that, it's it's also about how we live. Um, it's also about how we live. Uh, Sister Uh Mariah, go ahead, you were gonna say something.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Um, so as I have always studied this and I always ask this because I never get a clear answer, and I know that he's speaking to a church.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But he's speaking to them as if they're not saved, and so that's something that throws me off because I know it is a church, but the language in which he's using is not language that is of a saved person. Right. So that I I if you can help me understand what what is what is that about, because like you said, if they're they said that they were or whatever, and then like this person that we're talking about, I I forget his name because I don't know him, but and then they go on and say they think that they're rich. So in in my terms, if I can just tell you how I'm thinking about it, um he thinks that he's rich and that he leads not for nothing because of this knowledge that he does have of the Lord, right? But he sees hell as not an internal punishment, so he does not understand that he's actually naked, poor, and blind, and he does not have um need of this saving from hell, you know. So I I just need clarification if you can explain to me why is it that he's using language to a church that seems as though they are not saved people.
SPEAKER_02:Because, okay, so I'll put it to you this way. So you have what we would call the visible church and the invisible church. So there's the there's the visible church and the invisible church. This this is not this is something this is a way, in other words, here's how here's how you put it. Here's how I would state it. You have professing Christianity. You know, all people who say they're Christians, whatever, whatever denomination they are, they call themselves Christians. This is the visible church. The visible church. All right, so you can have like the Catholics, they call themselves Christians, witnesses, seven-day adventists, Mormons, Baptists, Reformers, uh, every denomination under the sun, the Methodists, Presbyterians, they all are part of the visible church. But there's a there is the invisible church. The invisible church are those true believers. The true believers, the true servants, the true elect of God. Here, Christ is speaking to the visible church. He's speaking to the visible church. Now, there's no doubt that in the visible church, because you and I, all of us here, we are all part of the visible church. But hopefully, all of us here belong to the invisible church. That body that that body of true narrow way believers who are God's elect sheep from before the foundation of the world. So Christ is speaking broadly, in a broad sense, in a universal sense, to all of those who profess to be believers. So Judas was part of the visible uh apostleship, but he was not actually one of them. And so, but Christ ministered to them all, did he not? He ministered to them all, and Judas was among them. Judas heard the truth, but he didn't cling to Christ. He clung more to the treasury, the money, than he did to Christ himself. So when we look at when we look at the the um directives that the Lord gives to the church, he gives it to the entire body, and he knows those who are his. Just like he told his disciples, haven't I chosen you twelve? And one of you is a devil, but his true church, his true elect church, these people, these are what we would refer to as his invisible church. Go ahead, Mariah.
SPEAKER_01:So, like the call goes out to everyone, and everyone is called to repent, those he's telling them the that physical church that they need to repent, or else this is the cause of what's gonna happen. He's going to spew you out of his mouth because you're wretchedness or you're you're poor or blind, you don't recognize these things, and this makes him stick sick to his stomach.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it is it's really when you think about it, it's really a profound thing because when you when we read John, somebody put it up, I think Meg put it up, 1 John 2.19. He John talks about, and we we're all familiar with this passage, is we when he talks about those who profess the name of Christ. Because every when we read about the falling away and the apostate believers, the apostates are the same ones that we read about in Hebrews chapter 6, verses 4 through 6, that I know you like to study a lot study a lot about. These people are for all intents and purposes, as far as any of us can see, they're Christians. They're Christians. When you read when you read um about the uh people that the Hebrew writer is speaking about in Hebrews 6, 4 through 6, these are not believers. But these are people who who appear to be believers by believers. John talks about, I'm gonna show you that the Lord is gonna show that these people are not true believers. They look like it now, but later it will be revealed so that you know that they were never God's people. They will walk, they will, they will go away from me. Christ talks about a great falling away, an apostasy. Well, if it's a falling away, and if it's an apostasy, which is what falling away is, what are you falling away from? You're falling away from the hypocrisy of your pretending, pretending to be a believer, a Christian. That's what the falling away is about. I think it was Lisa who brought up the wheat versus the wheat versus the tares. Christ says, Don't bundle, don't bundle them up too soon. Let them grow up together. Because if you don't let them grow up together, you might end up plucking up the true along with the bad, the fake, the false. So let them grow up together. Now, the thing about tares is that when they're growing up, you can't distinguish them between the wheat. You can't tell the difference. The only way you can tell the difference is at the end, when it is harvest time. That is the only way to distinguish the wheat from the tares. The tares are called a bearded darnell. But they look like wheat. You can't tell the difference. So amongst those who call themselves Christians, there are those who are true Christians, but those who also call themselves Christians, who even Christians might believe are Christians, and they are not. But from the standpoint of the onlooker, we look the same. And they may even have you fooled and me fooled. Some of us fool ourselves. Does it make sense, Mariah, at all or no?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it does. Thank you. Because everyone tells me that the whole entire church, that church is going to come to repentance, or they are going to be saved because they're called a church. And I it just wasn't making sense to me as to why he would use that language. It sticks out to me like a sort of thumb. Um, so I do appreciate it because it makes perfect sense in um in in the way that you have explained it. It it makes sense of like wheat interiors and things of that nature, or people who are portraying themselves to be in these churches, because I know that they were physical churches as well, you know. And just like it's it's telling us in Corinth or Corinthians that these people, there were some people in here that were acting a certain way or doing certain things. It doesn't mean the whole entire church, but some people in that church.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. And here's something else that I want to bring up while we're here, because you you you made me look at this. Because in verse 19, Christ says, As many as I love, I rebuke and I chasen. And we've talked about this. He says, Therefore be zealous and repent. And notice in verse 20, because this verse is always used as a verse toward as a verse is toward the ambigu the evangelistic efforts of the non-believer. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and dine with him, and he with me. Christ is not talking to the lost person, he's talking to those who profess to be Christian, who have deviated to the point where they have become lukewarm in their ministerial services to him. So, John 3.16, come to the door and knock. Revelation 3.20. He's talking to those who profess to be believers, not unbelievers. And this is a significant point. And he tells them, he says, Listen, who I love, those I will rebuke and chasten. Therefore, be zealous and repent. So he's telling them, I am ready to chasten and to rebuke. Take it. And if you take it, be zealous, be zealous.