The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: (Job 7:10-15) Night Terrors of Job - (Part 2 of 4)
What if God doesn’t see you the way you see yourself? We start with Job’s piercing question—“Am I like the sea?”—and follow the thread through Scripture where the sea symbolizes chaos, power, and unrest. From there, we confront a rising claim in modern teaching: that Christians no longer need to repent, confess, or ask for forgiveness. We test that idea against Romans, Colossians, and 1 John, and we talk plainly about the difference between being secure in Christ and being formed by grace in daily practice.
You’ll hear why we draw a clear line between positional standing and practical discipleship. Positionally, believers are reconciled and forgiven; practically, we still grieve, stumble, and need restoration. Confession is not a denial of the cross—it’s a response to it. Repentance is not self-salvation—it’s humility that aligns our lives with the truth. We unpack “mortify the deeds of the body,” not as spiritual heroics but as Spirit-led honesty that names sin, turns from it, and bears fruit that keeps us blameless in reputation without claiming sinlessness in reality.
We also sit with Job’s sleepless nights—terrors, dreams, and the ache for rest—and connect that experience to the way suffering strips away noise. Where do we find peace when every corner of life feels storm-tossed? The answer isn’t a slogan. It’s a return to ordinary, durable practices: prayer that tells the truth, confession that heals fellowship, counsel that welcomes correction, and a community that prefers Scripture to celebrity. If you’ve been burned by quick fixes or shamed into silence, this conversation offers a steadier path forward—grace with spine, hope with honesty, and a God who holds you even when you can’t feel the hand.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves the book of Job, and leave a review to help more listeners find thoughtful, Scripture-shaped conversations.
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Or the out-of-control C, which does what it wants. It's chaotic and it's wild and it's and it's whatever. And Job is saying, Candy says, toss to and fro. He goes, Am I like that? Am I uncontrollable? Am I this uncontrollable, uh, am I this uncontrollable force that that requires you to constantly check me, put me in place? Am I am I this am I unruly is the word I'm thinking for. Am I this unruly part of your creation that constantly needs you to impose your will on me in a way as so as to restrain me in any kind of way? And this is what he's getting at. And he's just asking God, because Joe still, he never, he, he still does not know. He still doesn't know why he's in this situation. It's gonna be a while before we get to the point where he does realize it. But he doesn't, he doesn't understand. And the see, especially if you're reading the book of Revelation, it is always a a sim, it is always symbolic of power that is chaotic. Chaotic. The C in the scriptures doesn't it rarely refers to anything other than chaos and power and and being you know sort of unwieldy or or uh I'm at a loss for words tonight, y'all. Um but anyway, just chaotic, you know, and and and the sea, by the way, and remember in Revelation the sea is where the beast comes from. The beast comes out of the sea, and the sea is often characterized as the people of the world, the world, the collective world, the sea, chaotic, powerful and chaotic. And we see the beast of Revelation rising up out of the what? He rises up out of the sea. And so Job is comparing himself to that sea. Am I this unruly person that can't be controlled? Am I like the sea? Am I like the great creatures that take place that are in the sea, like the whale? Am I like one of these creatures? And that's what Job is getting at. He's asking, he's wondering why God, he in his mind, God is treating him, like old school says, as if he's one of these unruly, wily, worldly types that can't be controlled. They are, like the young ones say, they're wilding out. Job feels he's being treated as one who is who it is like this. And so his question, his question is an expression of his confusion. He doesn't see himself as being this person, this chaotic being. He doesn't see himself that way. But he's wondering if God sees him that way. And he's confused. And so he wants to understand and find and put himself in a better light. But he but in order for him to do that, he feels that he needs to sort of see why he's here. And let me let me say this. There was a post by God. I see you, Candy, I'll get you next. There was this post by this guy. Um I guess the name doesn't really matter. But he made this big post talking about how once a person is a Christian, they no longer need to repent. They no longer need to repent. They no longer need to confess sins. And I'm just mystified by how people say this kind of nonsense. And he he was so bold as to say, he was so bold as to say that that when you are asking for forgiveness from God as a Christian, that you are denying that Christ has washed away all of your sin. It boggles the mind, the absolute incompetence, the spiritual incompetence that so many people have. This guy, you know, I guess Lisa knows what I'm talking about, she may have seen it, but he was throwing out the Koine A Greek words and all this kind of thing, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Metaneo and Metaneo, you know, giving you the words of, you know, they think they think that somehow if they pronounce Koine Greek words, that somehow that's going to validate the lie they are telling. So he says that a Christian doesn't need after they come to faith in Christ, no more need for repentance, no more need for confession, and no more need to ask or seek forgiveness. Now let me ask you something. And this is what I actually asked and posed in the my video response to that guy. How can what more? And there probably is a few more things that can be asked, but what more can the devil ask than to get Christians to shrug off repentance, confession, and forgiveness, asking for forgiveness. Remember, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all of our sins, right? Past, present, and future. And as long as we who are believers are alive and breathing, there are sins that we are yet to do, even though those sins have been already forgiven and taken from us in terms of the punishment due to them. We have been reconciled to God. So, what is the purpose of confession, repentance, and forgiveness and seeking forgiveness today? It is us acknowledging. It is us acknowledging to God that we see what it is our Savior did for us because it is manifesting itself to us still, even though we have received forgiveness, even though our repentance was granted and accepted, and even though we confess our sins, what we are doing is acknowledging that the work that Christ has done, we see what he's done and we are recognizing it. Gabriella says, we are showing humility, humility. And we're not talking about our, we're not talking about the positional aspect of positional repentance, positional forgiveness or the positional pardon. We're not, we don't seek forgiveness for salvation. We don't continue to preach or to repent for salvation. We don't continue to confess for salvation, but we repent, confess, and seek forgiveness because we have salvation. You have to distinguish the difference between the positional and the practical. The positional and the practical. So this guy is telling Christians an out and out lie. And I don't care, as many of you know, I don't. Let me calm down. I don't care who you are, how many followers you have. That doesn't make you smart. Telling Christians that you are essentially sinning against faith by seeking forgiveness is the dumbest thing that a Christian can say. One of the many. Brother Jeff, encouraging servant.
SPEAKER_03:Go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_05:I don't know. I don't know. Okay, because there is uh I I typed a name in a few lines up, and that's the guy's first name. That he says that once you're saved, it's impossible for you to sin. Okay. And I'm like, okay, and this guy that you're talking about, Jonathan, you said a minute ago it's stupid and dumb. Jonathan, to me, it's beyond that. It is totally, totally contrary to the word of God. It's totally contrary to God's plan of salvation for us. It's spitting in the face of God and saying, your plan isn't good enough to save me. Right. How dangerous is that? How foolish is that? But yet that's what we're that's what people do.
SPEAKER_04:It is. And what it does is it doesn't understand, it doesn't, see, here's the thing. This is, man, it's it blows me away. Let me read you, let me read two verses for everybody here, just for so you understand. In Romans 8 13, Paul says, For if you live after the flesh, you shall die. But if you through the spirit, notice this next word, but if you through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live. He goes to Colossians chapter three, and Paul also says, Mortify, therefore, your members which are upon the earth, mortify fornication, mortify uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, covetousness, which is idolatry. You cannot mortify anything in the flesh unless you first recognize it, repent of it, confess it, and seek forgiveness on it. And so this is the whole, this, like these guys, they they latch onto something that they think is going to make them sound deep and profound, and they throw it out there, and they and they have no clue what they're saying, and they have no clue what damage it is doing. And so, and so this guy, Lisa put it in his name in there, Johnny Chang. He says some of the dumbest things I've ever heard a Christian say. But there's a lot of people that do these kinds of things. And let me tell you something. Let me let me say this to everybody, because I know that that we have, those of us who show up in this live, we have a very good um group of people that participate here, and I love it and I enjoy it. But let me tell you one thing. If I say something stupid, I don't care how much you like me or this live, don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. Everything you hear me say or anybody in this panel say, you don't, if you have an issue with any part of it, something hits you the wrong way, you go and check it out. Go and check it out. I promise you, there's nothing that I'm gonna say to you that I believe is wrong unless I say that there is something nebulous about this about the whatever it is that's being said. But I am willing to be corrected. I'm willing to be corrected. And that's why we have fellowship, and that's why we sharpen each other with this, because we all, like Sister Forever said, we all fall short. I can as well, and have, and do, and will do again. But there needs to be a spirit of humility when we come to the word of God. And there are certain things that you can't say without, without, you know, where where you shouldn't, after it comes out of your mouth, you go, you know what, that was just stupid what I just said. And he said this. And so, and and so repentance, confession of our sin, confessing our faults to one another, confessing our faults to God. I mean, here's the thing if you don't go to God and recognizing sin, repenting of it, confessing it, and seeking his forgiveness, because your position in Christ has already been secured. So why do we pray? What is prayer for? What are we asking God to do? When David sinned, what was he supposed to do? Not acknowledge his sin? What did he do? We saw how David broke when he got called out for his adultery and for murder. My thing is, if you want the heart of David, then you gotta repent like David. So you look at all these Old Testament saints and you see with with those who were faithful things that they actually repented of. And all you have to do, believers, all you have to do is go look into your into your word, into the word of God, and you will find people, even in the New Testament, you will find people who repented for things after they had already become affiliated with Christ savingly. Just go do a study on it. You will see that this Johnny Chang guy is wrong and he's lying to people, boldly lying to people. Sister Candy, and then uh Canaan.
SPEAKER_03:You kind of threw me off with the Johnny Chang conversation, but I also think sometimes that um what you start talking about with the repent, that's that's our acknowledgement of us being changed from inside. Right. Like that's and then when it's a stronghold, God's the only one that can take the stronghold from us. It's his strength. Right. So if one doesn't, and and if that being said like that, that's how we're continually being changed. That's how we're continually becoming clean from the ugly and dirty, you know? And then I think a lot of times, um, because I'm pretty sure it's in 1 John, first, is it chapter 3, verse 8 and 9? You know, I'm talking about where it says that um for those who are of God um cannot sin because the seed remaineth in them. And then of course when we're when we become a child of God and become saved and reconciled, it's we're we're our sins are no longer remembered to from the past all the way until then. But unless one continuously repents because we fall short every day and knowing that, none of that makes sense to not be humbled enough to go and apologize when we know that we fell short for doing something that we know is not God, and he knows that that's gonna happen. But are we gonna admit to it and acknowledge the fact that we did it and we are sorry for it and we want to change from it?
SPEAKER_04:Right. Absolutely. Brother Caine, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:So the subject that you're talking about, hypergrace, uh, it originates in the 21st century for one, so that should be a red flag number one. And one of the leading proponents also leans into prosperity and where the faith his name is. Is it I believe it was just one moment. Sorry, I want to make sure I say it correctly. I don't want to name the wrong person. Uh, Mr. Prince, Joseph's Joseph Prince. And so with that, keep that in mind when these types of subjects come up, because it's imperative that we look at the foundation or the sand in which it's built on. And then, second of all, I wanted to read 2 Peter 3, 14 through 16. Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found spotless and blameless by him at peace, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking of them, these things in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of scriptures to their own destruction.
SPEAKER_04:Let me ask you a question, brother, why while I got you while you're on that verse. When you see the word blameless there, how do you interpret that?
SPEAKER_01:What does blameless mean? I would say as we are sanctified, we are spotless and blameless because we are being more and more as Christ is, reflecting him in our own lives as we are sanctified. So when we do whenever, whenever our lives end, we will be as Christ was, because that's what he's using these trials and these tribulations for is to make us blameless, similar with Job. This is a trial and tribulation that Job is enduring, but God is using it for his praise, his glory, and to refine and to build up Job ultimately for his own good, even if it may not be something that we can understand in that moment in time.
SPEAKER_04:Well, so so so do you think do you think that Job was blameless?
SPEAKER_01:I think that with well, because I understand I've read this the whole story, so I do understand that there are some things that he repents of in in the future chapters, but do I believe that God had chosen him as his child? Yes. Do I think that he was upright? Yes. Uh do I think he was perfect and beyond reproach as far as this life is concerned? No, because none of us are. None of us are perfect in this life. We can never be perfect, we can never be sinless as Christ was. But again, this is why we are sanctified and it's a process before we are truly glorified and perfect with the Lord and the life to come.
SPEAKER_04:Amen, brother. Brother Jeff, man of God, let me ask you a question. How do you distinguish that what how do you distinguish between uh blameless, being blameless, and being sinless? What's the difference?
SPEAKER_00:Well uh Blame is something that uh is laid upon you when you've done something wrong. Sin is the wrong. I mean, that's basic English right there. I mean, you know, blameless means that nobody has accused you of anything. Sinless means you've done nothing wrong. And I I don't since you called on me, I just thought I'd listen mostly tonight, but I just disagree with my brother Kane and uh remember again, I would say perfect is complete, not perfect. So he's taking it literally, and it doesn't mean perfect like like Jesus. It means he was complete in God's eyes for God's purposes. But uh you know what else that's what I think about those two words. What do you think?
SPEAKER_04:I think it's true. I think that it is uh I think old school said it when he when he said in right standing, and blameless meaning meaning before God in a right standing, um, but also not open to not not open to the charge of any outward manifestations of disp of sins that disparage um how we are openly representing God. In other words, it doesn't mean like blameless is not sinless. It just and so there is a distinction between sinlessness and being blameless. And so when the Bible talks about, for instance, people who are ministers being blameless, they can't be open to the charge of any open outward sin that makes them unqualified to be supervisors or under-shepherds of the Lord's people. And so, does it mean they're sinless? No, it doesn't mean they're sinless. But what it what it does mean is that you can't point to them and go, see, this is what is wrong with this person. This is why he shouldn't be doing this. This is what is going on with Job. And I'm glad that Brother Canaan brought it up. This is what is going on with Job. Job, there was nothing that you could point to with him and say, he did this or that wrong. He was blameless. He wasn't sinless, but he was blameless. And like you said, brother, you pointed out, perfect here, we're not talking about perfect in terms of any aspect of sinlessness. We're talking about perfect in terms of being complete in our standing with God, have you know, have, you know, being in a right standing and uh and observing him both positively and you know, actively in a way that is pleasing to God. And so, and it's important to get that distinction right. That's why I asked Brother Cainan that. What's the difference for us to have that brief little dialogue on that difference because it's important to understand that you can be you can have blame and be a Christian. But this is where what we were talking about earlier is about. You can have blame and be a Christian. Because when you do have blame, this is what warrants the seeking of forgiveness. This is what warrants confessing to God our sins, and this is what warrants confessing our sins to one another. This is what deals, this is what we are dealing with when it comes to exercising repentance. I see this now. I see how I am wrong. I see how I've wronged you. If I told all of you something that was wrong in the scriptures, it would be a lie. I may not be intending to be a liar, but if it is not truth consistent with the word of God, it is a lie, nonetheless. I never want to come here and tell anybody a lie. Never. But is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Yes. Is it intentional? No, it's not. But when you deal with these kinds of things, you have to deal with it the way that it is. And so when a when a person who calls himself a Christian is telling Christians with boldness and confidence, if you're asking for forgiveness, it's because you doubt that Christ washed away all your sins. That's the dumbest piece of theology I've ever heard. It's just silly and stupid on his face. Because we need to understand through our own practical experiences certain things that are true. We raise our kids from the time they're born to do right things. And we teach them so that they can recognize when something is wrong. Imagine telling a kid, okay, when you do something wrong, don't tell me about it, because if you do, I'm going to disown you. And that's what this is sort of tantamount to. It's sort of like saying, you know what, you know, if if I you are my child, and and this this analogy goes off and it's a little harsh, but what I'm saying is, when you when a child, when your child, your son or your daughter, does something wrong, don't you want them to come to you and say, I made a mistake. I messed up. I knew it was wrong, but I did it anyway. I'm sorry. So if we have learned to expect this and desire this from our kids, how much more should our Heavenly Father not expect it from us? Johnny Chang is wrong, and he is preaching a lie. And I'll leave it there at that. Did I miss anybody that had their hand up? All right, so let me move on. Job chapter 7, verse 13. So Job says, When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint. Then you scare me with dreams and terrify me through visions. So put these words together, these two verses together, 13 and 14. When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaining, then you scare me with dreams and terrify me with visions. Job is painting this picture that there is no area in his life as he is going through this affliction, there is no quarter where he finds peace and comfort. No matter what. No matter what he does, no matter what he go, where where he's going, whatever it is he's doing, where he's sitting, whatever, and he and like Lisa says, he can't even sleep. Sleep, we talked about this in the last session on Job. Sleep is where you're supposed to be able to shut your eyes, get some sleep, and wake up with some modicum of refreshment. And Job is here saying, When I when I say, My bed shall comfort me. In other words, when I think that if I go to bed, I will at least get peace while I sleep. And then he says, But when I say this, my couch shall, and when he thinks that his couch will ease his complaint, in other words, he's looking at finding comfortable repose so that he can temporarily be alleviated of his affliction. And then he says, and even then, verse 14, you scare me with dreams and you terrify me through visions. So he's saying that even I am facing and dealing with suffering and affliction even in my sleep. Brother Jeff, encourage you to serve me. Go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_05:Jonathan, it's almost like Job is describing hell on earth. There's no place to rest. The suffering is continuous. It doesn't end. Like you just said, there's no respite from it, there's no uh break from it. It's just ongoing. This guy can't even lay his head down at night and forget about this for a couple hours because his dreams terrify him. Right. I mean, it's just you have to wonder sometimes, Jonathan, how Job survived this other than by God's grace and protection that he's not aware of or thinking about at this moment. Because to go through this and and still and come out the other side is not of Job. It's of God working in him, but he doesn't see it yet. But he will.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Yeah, he he he he's he's he's showing here that he has this expectation of having this grief sort of temporarily removed, having the sorrow temporarily suspended in sleep. And what does he do? He finds even in his sleep, he's frustrated by dreams and visions that frustrate him and that make it very difficult for him to find peace. And so, and he and what he's showing is that even in this small little bit of hope, even in the small little bit of hope of finding reprieve in sleep, that even that has shown itself to be empty of his expectation. Sister Lisa, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I this is really quick. I I can just relate to this little part. Um when I was a child, I used to have recurring nightmares, and I was terrified to go to sleep, and I would cry, and when I'd fall asleep, I'd have the nightmare, and then I would wake up, and I'm sure I prayed, but it just just happened and happened the nightmare. And literally, you start to feel like crazy. Depression comes on. It's um it's not good. This is this breaks my heart, honestly, reading this.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, and I can man, yeah, it's like those it's like those uh they what there's a name for it, um uh night something. I can't think of what the name is.
SPEAKER_02:Night terrors.
SPEAKER_04:Night terrors, yeah. That's that's the picture that I get, is that he's having these night terrors. So, and and and remember, we we all need to refer, we all need to remember this. God said to Job, I mean to Satan, when it comes to Job, there are no limits. There are no limits. And Job, we're seeing, and we're he he's like you said, Lisa, he's going for it. God is go for what you know, Satan, go do your worst. And Job is getting it. He's getting it. He can't even sleep and find uh and find comfort. Not even in this sleep. Sister Candy and then Canaan.
SPEAKER_03:I was just want to reflect back on something Pocket said earlier about the complaining part, where he complains because he doesn't have a bed or a couch to ease his pain or comfort or to have comfort. And then, of course, the visions, of course, be in terror. But then, like he said, Satan for his life to to try and turn him from God against God. And like Sister Lisa said, like, I remember dreams of having snakes, and it was like you run for your dear life and you wake up. And I remember the only way I could ever get them back to sleep was just to pray to God, like, God, please make them stop. Please get the enemy away from me, you know. And that was the only way I had comfort. That's the only way I could sleep. It was was that, and it was like the enemy when when you when you the more you grow in God's word, it's like you start, he starts revealing these things to you of why things are the way they were or they happen when they happen. Like he opens up your eyes for you to see a more in-depth, meaningful way about what it is that's going on with you. And and again, it's all it's all for our good, not to hurt us, that's for sure. It's to prosper us in him. I see that in kind of what Job's going through. Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Brother Canaan, go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_01:I wanted to touch on that subject of rest really quick because again, something came to mind. I have a couple of verses to read. Isaiah 57, verse 20 and 21. But the wicked are like tossing the tossing sea, for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up refuse and mud. There's no peace, says my God.