The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: (Job 7:10-15) Night Terrors of Job - (Part 3 of 4)
What if the reason you can’t find peace isn’t a missing habit but a misplaced trust? We open Proverbs, Psalm 91, and Job to explore why the wicked lose sleep, why believers can rest, and how Job dares to direct his anguish to God rather than to Satan. The throughline is bold: true rest is a fruit of right relationship—repentance toward God and reconciliation with others—not a stack of self-help tricks.
We wrestle with Job 7:14, where he says God terrifies him with dreams. That single verse pushes us into the heart of sovereignty: does God cause, or does He permit? We navigate the complexities without turning God into the author of sin, showing how Scripture presents Satan on a leash and God holding it. That framework reframes spiritual warfare. Instead of theatrical rebukes, James calls us to resist the devil and draw near to God. Job models this instinct by crying straight to the Lord who orders all things for His glory and our good.
Along the way, we confront modern idols—endless medicating, prosperity slogans, ego—and contrast them with the shelter of the Most High. We share a vulnerable exchange about correcting error and forgetting to pray for those who err, turning criticism into intercession and compassion. And we track how suffering moves us from knowing about God to knowing God, from information to communion. If your soul feels loud with anxiety, this conversation offers a steadier path: guard your heart, keep a tender conscience, and rest under the shadow of the Almighty, where even hard nights can give way to deeper trust.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs courage, and leave a review telling us how this shaped your view of suffering and rest.
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For the wicked. And then also we see in Proverbs 14, or excuse me, 4, 16 through 17, for they cannot sleep unless they do evil, and they are robbed of sleep unless they make someone stumble, for they eat the bread of wickedness and drink the wine of violence. And so I want to parallel this with it's interesting to see that one who is under the protection and the shadow of the Lord in this situation, and yet he cannot rest peacefully. Whereas as believers especially, I think if we transgress and we go to sleep, kind of like when it talks about if don't go uh to bed angry with your brother or your sister, but to make that situation right, because you can only rest when things are right with you and the Lord, and you are you are repenting and continually being in right relationship with him and your brothers and sisters, not just the Lord, but with your brothers and sisters. And then it uh parallels with this verse that uh from Psalms 91, one through two, which says, One who dwells in the shelter of the most high will lodge in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, My refuge, my fortress, my God, in whom I trust. We rest in the Lord, we're able to rest not just physically, but spiritually, our souls, anxiety, and all the things that come about from sin and from not having salvation by Christ alone, uh, by through his grace. But without those things, we are a soup sandwich, we're always a mess. You know, you see the world constantly medicating with uh pills and self-help and prosperity gospels and me, me, me, me, and pride and ego and all those things that are a poison for us. Right. And then the world wonders why they're in such disarray or why there's such a huge amount of abuse of certain, you know, whatever it might be, because everything's turned into idols if if we don't have the Lord leading us. And so we see that it's an interesting parallel to see between Job, who is a righteous man, uh, and then we see what happens with those who are committing evil and wickedness daily.
SPEAKER_06:Amen, brother. Good word there. I I I like what you said there. And uh and it's so true because, but you know, all of this has a lot to do with um uh you know, guarding our hearts and and and having this. I mean, we we we need to keep having with within our own hearts this constant um discussion with conscience and how and how it relates to the Lord and how we see ourselves before him and how we try to lay ourselves open and naked before him. And uh and it can be very hard, it can be a very tedious um experience, but it's something that needs to be it's something that needs to be uh done on a regular basis. And you know, sometimes I find myself having to, you know, and it's a good thing for us to sort of chastise ourselves over these things. It's tough being a Christian, right? It's tough being a Christian. It really is. And if you don't think it is, then you have a lot of growing to do. Because you will find that the more you grow, the more difficult you understand this vocation really is, this ambassadorship that we have. Um, Sister Lisa, go ahead.
SPEAKER_08:Well, I was just gonna say, um I how blessed are we to have this book. I mean, this book of Job has been, it's huge because of all of the things that we go through on a daily basis. Um it the thought just came to me how grateful to have the insight that we have. I mean, Job didn't have that. You know, this is this is such a blessing. And I think we need to keep this book like close so close to us um for those times, um, you know, when we get confused, when you know all it's all God and it's all for his glory, and it's all for our sanctification. All good, all good things, even the pain, and I I just that just came to my mind, and I just encourage us all to really, really, as we go deeper into even Job's pain and the things that he was going through. It's like, whew, you know. That's it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Mariah, I have a question for you. I have a question for you. Uh Job 7, verse 14. Let me read it again, and then I'm gonna ask you a question. He says, Then you scare me with dreams and terrify me through visions. Who in your mind, Mariah, who is he talking to? And what does it tell you about his what does it tell you about his understanding of the one he's talking to?
unknown:Can you hear me?
SPEAKER_09:Oh, totally.
SPEAKER_06:I hear you. I hear you.
SPEAKER_09:Told you my kids chewed up that one, your headphone. Um, I believe that he's speaking to God. He's never addressing Satan as Satan is the one that's doing or causing um everything that's going on with him. He's he's saying that it is God who is doing so.
SPEAKER_06:You wrapped it up in one neat little package, nothing else need be said. He's speaking to God, but what he's doing is he's acknowledging that that it is God who is the one that is sending him these scary dreams, and God is the one who is terrifying him through these visions. Even though we know that Satan sought Job out, we also know before prior to that, God offered Job up to Satan, and Satan said, Yeah, how about him? How about him? Because you were always, you know, taking care of this guy. And so here, so we know that God gives Satan permission to do all these things to Job. And then Job says here that he speaks to God. Like Sister Mariah says, You scare me with these dreams and terrify me with these visions. Job is acknowledging that these that these things, he's acknowledging that his affliction, that his suffering, is coming from God. And brother John Langley asked a good question. Why wouldn't Job suspect Satan? I think it has a lot to do with him understanding who God is. I think it's I think, first of all, John, I think the question is a very excellent question. And here's what I'll tell you something else, brother. Like you asked the question, why would why wouldn't Job suspect Satan? That question demands an answer, which should be a lesson to believers when they are afflicted with tragedy, and when they are and they are visited with affliction and persecution. I get so sick of hearing Christians appealing to Satan or appealing to the enemy or what he's doing or whatever. That's not what the saints of God do. They go straight to the Lord. And even for us, in James 4:7, he just says, just resist the devil and he'll flee. You don't have to say anything to him, just resist him. And so all this big theatrical performances that people do when it comes to dealing with Satan, and you got these pastors and whatever thinking they're doing exorcisms or whatever, they're not doing anything except putting on a performance. That's all they're doing. That's all they're doing. Brother Jeffrey, encouraging servant and then forever blessed.
SPEAKER_04:Jonathan, I made the point I want to make here. I may have made this earlier when you started the study of Job. But as we've gone through this, my brother, I've often wondered if maybe part of, not all of it, but part of what God is doing here is putting together this story so that it can be passed on from generation to generation to generation to us today to see, know, and fully understand and comprehend the faithfulness of God, even in the face of absolute disaster, tragedy, and the horrors that Job is going through at the moment.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_04:It's a reminder that those things, as bad as they are, are temporary. Now, Job hasn't gotten to the point yet where he realized that this is temporary and he's going to come out the other side. He will, but he's not there yet. Right. But the point here for us is the fact is to remember that this story has been given to us and it's an indication and a reminder of God's goodness and faithfulness to us all the time, regardless of what we are facing or what is against us.
SPEAKER_06:Right. You know, that's right, brother. And you know, I'll say this, and then I'll call on uh Sister Forever, bless it. You know, to I want to I want to add a little bit, another layer to the my response to Brother John Langloy when he asked the question, a very good question, actually, is an astute question. Why wouldn't Job suspect Satan? And here's and here's what I will say, and I want to add to this. Job understands that he is the subject of a sovereign king. And he knows that sovereign king is not Satan. He knows that it is God. He knows his relationship with his God, and he knows that everything that he receives or that or he or that is taken away from him is done by God. Remember what he told his wife when she told him to curse God and die. He says, Shall I not take the good along with the evil as it comes from God? He knows that Satan is God's dog. And let me ask everybody here a question, and this will make sense. I hope. If you're walking down your street and your neighbor's pit bull gets out and attacks you, who do you go after? Not the dog. You go after the owner. And this is what Job is doing. He's appealing and crying out to his God. Why have you let these dogs out on me?
SPEAKER_07:And there's a bunch of dogs that came after Job. Boil. Poverty. Misery. Sorrow.
SPEAKER_06:When a dog comes out and bites you, you go after the owner. The dog has no clue. He's doing what nature requires him to do. God let loose some of that leash on Satan to come after Job. And Job makes this appeal to his God, not the dog. Sister, forever blessed. Go ahead, sister. You were going to say something.
SPEAKER_00:I just was thinking about um the question that Mr. John asked, and as you stated, I agree with what you said. And it just reminded me all throughout my um growth in Christ, how when bad things happen, the first thing we say is it's Satan attacking us, or Satan is doing this or doing that, and we want to bind the enemy and so on. Never looking at the fact that our focus, Job is showing me that my focus should not be on him, but on God communing with my father about what's going on, opposed to, you know, just uh saying what Satan is doing. Because it's like almost like the way I used to look at it is how when we, you know, just constantly say Satan doing this and Satan doing that, it's almost like we're giving praise to him and neglecting our father. And just reading, and I mean, just listening to, you know, the uh panel and the question that was asked, it was a very good question because it just opened my eyes. It just opened my eyes, and I'm so grateful.
SPEAKER_10:Amen.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so grateful, and and just just to just let you know a little bit. Uh this week, last week, I've been struggling with getting into my word and and studying. And ever since I ran across this panel, it's like, okay, God, you brought me to this panel. And I kept saying, I was reading Job. I just kept having an urge to go back to Job, and I didn't know why. But then I came across your panel, and I'm like, God, why am I, you know, come, why am I coming here? What is it that you're trying to say to me? And I've been struggling to get in my word because it's just so much around me going on. But I'm so grateful. I am so grateful just to sit here and be able to partake and get in the word and just get revelation after revelation about God and how we must seek Him and stay in His face no matter what's going on. Excuse me. No matter what's going on and what we're going through, we just gotta stay in His face, irregardless of why things are happening, good or bad. And not to go back on what you were saying about the young man teaching an era. I just felt that, you know, sometimes we do do things, and sometimes we don't know that we're doing the wrong thing.
SPEAKER_04:That's true.
SPEAKER_00:And in the process, it takes for somebody to tell us that we're wrong. Now, when you tell us and we don't heed it, then that's another thing because we have now become prideful and don't want to see our own fault or our own wrong or mistake. But the word of God pushes us into looking at ourselves first. And I just felt the compassion to pray for that young man because it's almost like yes, you have people out here who say that they are Christians. And yes, Christians fall short of God's glory every day. But if I look at you when you fall short, and I just acknowledge you're wrong, but I don't do anything to help you, it's like, whoa, but for the grace of God, Dago I, it could be me doing the same thing. You know, and my our job, and I'm I'm sorry to take us away from what we were talking about. But our job is to pray for him and lift him up and ask God to turn him from his error so that he can come back into the truth or the fold of God if he veered away from it. And if he's not in God, that he will become a Christian, a true Christian, and go back and fix the error of his ways. That's who we are as God's children. We operate from the love of God, from compassion, you know. And I just, I just, I don't know why I veered off and went all the way there, but I'm just grateful and I thank you for the question that Mr. John posed because it just opened my eyes. You know, you go to church and you hear the word of God and you want to do what God tells you to do, and you want to be right and you want to praise him and seek him to the best of your ability. But every day we fall short. Every day we do something wrong that we gotta go back in his face for, that we gotta go back and cry out to God about. And some of us have been tasked to cry out for others with the spirit of intercession. So I just I just wanted to say that, and I hope I didn't offend anybody.
SPEAKER_06:No, sister, you didn't offend nobody, and you didn't you didn't offend anyone. I'm certainly not offended. If anybody was offended, they got a problem. And you know, I tell you, this this, you know, when if if this let me tell you something. This is what the word of God is supposed to do. It is supposed to affect us in our hearts. If it doesn't, something is wrong. If it doesn't, something is wrong. I listen to stuff on a daily basis because I want to understand how what people are thinking so I know how to address some of these things. And it it's just I know what you're going through, sister, and I and I get what you're saying. And and in your speech, um uh what you had to say, it was humbling to me. It was humbling to me. And I'm gonna tell you the reason why. To be transparent, because that guy I have not prayed for. And what your words were right now, they were humbling to me because I know I can be quick to to challenge an error and forget to pray for the person who committed it or who communicated it. So we both got something out of this talk tonight. You know, and I'm gonna make sure that it is on my list of things in terms of my prayers tonight to to address, to pray for that guy. And this is why I'm so glad that you said what you said, and and uh, and uh, and uh I'm thankful for you. And I hope that God continues to to show you things in his word, and I hope that all of us continue to see um. To be instruments to each other, to express things that the Word of God has shown each of us so that we could be a blessing and a benefit to others. Because my sister certainly was a blessing to me in her talk right now. Brother Jeff, man of God, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:I have a burning question that you know I really appreciate the sister and what she said. I support her and I agree with her, and she's right. And uh, you know, if I if I didn't agree with her, I'd need to sit down and talk to myself about it. But I have a question about verse 14. And maybe maybe it's obvious to the rest of you, but it's not to me. So I thought I'd bring it up. Um you know, Jehovah's talking to God, talking about visions and dreams. But why in the world would God want to send him things that would cause him to suffer? God is hasn't so far been an instrument of his suffering, but if he's trying to sleep and God's sending him visions and dreams that terrify him, it seems to me that he's causing him suffering. So what what what about that?
SPEAKER_06:I think that these dreams that he that he is receiving are no different than all the other things that came to him in terms of his suffering. Job is simply acknowledging that God is the source of it. And this is the way I see it. I'm open to hear what somebody else thinks. But here's what I'm saying. Job, you know, he he didn't specifically, he didn't specific specifically address his boils. He didn't specifically address the taking away of his children or the cursing of his wife or the taking of his wealth and poverty. But I do believe in in those same sense those same instances. I think that Job definitely, even in those things, I don't think Job sat down and go, this was from the devil. I think that he also understood that those things were coming from God. What did he tell his wife again? Shall not good and evil come from the hand of God?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but brother, brother, he didn't cause those, he permitted them. He did you're if he sends dreams and visions, he's sending them.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so then so so let me so so let me ask you then. Then where are they coming from?
SPEAKER_05:Well, you know, if we're gonna be consistent, they have to be coming from Satan. I agree with you. Because Satan is the author of all this suffering. God is permitting him to do it. I agree with you. Okay, well, that's all I wanted to know.
SPEAKER_06:I don't know why what you thought was different. Because all of it, because all of it came from God. All of it. Job understands that even that even what Satan does, as we should all understand, whatever Satan does comes from God. Because, like you said, he allowed it. He permitted it. He could have stopped it.
SPEAKER_05:Right, but uh what I was getting from the discussion was that Job was talking to him, and that we thought maybe God did send those dreams and his vision. What I'm saying is he did not, he permitted them.
SPEAKER_06:Permit it, did, whatever you want to call it. Doesn't matter to me. The issue is the issue the issue is this. The issue is this. Can anything can anything happen to us that is bad that God didn't permit? Anything.
SPEAKER_05:Of course not.
SPEAKER_06:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:But again, because he permitted doesn't mean he causes it.
SPEAKER_06:I didn't say he caused it. We're not communicating, let's just drop it. No, I don't want to drop it. I don't want to drop it.
SPEAKER_05:We're talking about it. I do. Okay, because we're we're splitting hairs now, and I don't want to talk about it anymore.
SPEAKER_06:Well, then maybe you should just drop out of the c out of the conversation because this is what we're talking about. Thank you. Now, here's the thing the reason why we do these things is to have these discussions. This is what we need to do. And part of what goes on in this world is this in in terms of Christians speaking, when we have a conversation, what we're supposed to do is to hash these things out. You know, we're we're we're not here to be these crybabies over things. We're having conversations. We're trying to grow each other in this faith. Here's what I will tell you. We know that Satan, that God isn't the author of sin. We know that. No Christian should have to learn this. This is this is this should be something that we know early on in the Christian faith.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_06:I don't think anybody here doubts that. Even my brother who just departed. All right. Um, here's the other thing. We also know that there is nothing Satan can do to us that he did not allow Satan to do. We also know that if God were to prevent Satan, he could do nothing. So by God giving Satan the authorization to do it, there is an aspect whereby he is saying, you go ahead and do it, I'm okay with it. He authorized it. This is this is like this is like in our own, see, this is what I mean. Sometimes we need to understand, even in our own practical experience, if I am a mobster, like in the old, like in these Italian mobster movies, if I give an order for somebody else to to, if I give an order to put a hit on somebody's life, and that person goes and commits the hit and ends the life of that person who I commissioned him to go do it, who's at fault? Of course the guy who does it is at fault, but I gave the order. I am also culpable. It starts with me. I don't understand why this is a hard thing to do, a hard thing to understand. I really don't understand that. And so the thing that we have to understand, and I'm gonna tell you something, believers, brothers and sisters, if we have a dis, if we have, if we there is a way for us to be able to discuss these things and have a meaningful conversation and come to a reasonable understanding. Running away from it, running away from it is not how we solve it. There are certain people, there are certain people that I look up to. Hold on one second. There are certain people that I look up to in the hopes that they will contribute to the conversation so that all of us who are younger Christians and older Christians can understand. And that response that he got that he gave, I'm not happy with that. But that's what it is. That's what it is. And so we need to be grown-ups about these things and try to understand these things. And I will sit here all night with somebody and discuss something until we got clarity on it. But we need to understand something. There is nothing that happens to a child of God that the God Himself did not authorize. You can put whatever semantic you want on it happening. If it happens, it's because he authorized it.
SPEAKER_07:He authorized it. He said, do it.
SPEAKER_06:And it was done. And what we understand from it is this is that even if it's bad, even if it's something that is not what we would desire, we understand that at the end of it, it will be to God's glory. And that is what we that is why we endure, because we know it is God's glory. Like Brother Trevor said, He allows the sun and the rain to fall on the righteous and the wicked. He does. God authorizes these things to try us, to prove us, to test us. He does it. If he doesn't, it doesn't happen. That's all. I won't labor too much on that. Sister Linda, what do you think? All right, I'm gonna come back to Linda. Sister Mariah.
SPEAKER_09:Oh, go ahead, Sister Linda.
SPEAKER_02:You you just came off. Go ahead. Thank you, Sister Mariah. Um, I agree with you uh 100%. Um, whether um we say that he allows it or we say that he um permitted it, um, it's really basically the same thing. He's in control of our existence. So um, you know, it's just sort of semantics to me. Maybe I'm misusing the word semantics, but I think it was just a matter of semantics. Right. And he continues to, you know, order our steps, order the steps of everyone about us, um, and that's the the beginning and the end of it.
SPEAKER_06:That's exactly right, sister. You I couldn't put it better. Uh I should have had you speak on it, but that's exactly the truth. There's nothing, there's there is nothing, nothing that takes place in this life that is not ordered by God. Nothing. He orders it all. It is his sovereign decree, all things that take place. His providence comes from him and it and it governs and rules this world in all aspects. Everything that happens to us, it falls from God. And this is what the world is not understanding today. They think that everything is about their choice and their will and their desire, not what God has ordered and decreed to take place. But he will set all this straight. He will set it all straight. Uh, Sister Mariah and then Lisa.
SPEAKER_09:Um, I just wanted to remind us of what the first chapter said. Um, he when God asks Satan, have you considered? and he says, and you know, you have a hedge and X, Y, and Z. Satan says to God, put forth your hand and touch all that he has. Right. So Satan knows that it is it is what comes from God as well, that he cannot do anything unless God allows it. So I think that it's important to know that Satan himself knows that it is God ultimately who um says yes, or he says no. And if he says yes, then so it shall be. And if he says no, he had he cannot do so, you know. So I think that this is very important to take in, and I think it just runs over a lot of the time because it wasn't. Um, then he goes on, if I may just say this. He goes on and says, Um, and he shall surely curse you to your face. So if if it's not coming from God, then why would he curse him to his faith if it's not from God, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yes, that's right. Absolutely, absolutely, sister Lisa and then Meg.
SPEAKER_08:Sister Mariah, I think that was a great point. You guys are frozen. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER_07:I hear you fine. I hear you. I think you might have a problem there, Lisa, because I can't hear you, I can't hear you now.
SPEAKER_06:Um, let me try. I can't hear you, Lisa. I'll come back to you, okay? I can't hear you. Uh Sister Uh Meg. Oh here.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. I'm back. All right. So I I wanted to take into account something that I feel like we haven't like talked about, like going like from even two through seven, is like what the relationship that Job has with God in this moment, and what does it look like? Meaning, like, I think that Job's relationship with God is, as we're gonna see though, starting to become relational and versus having knowledge and know and knowing who God is. I think we're getting into the territory where we're starting to see Job's relationship develop with the Lord, where so many times in our walk, you know, sometimes we when we first get saved, we the relationship that we have with the Lord is is developing. You know, we know him because he saved us. Then we then informationally we know him because we start reading the scriptures. But then when everything starts to come alive and the strip scriptures open up and the word of God starts.