The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: (Job 8:1-7) - Bildad, A Cold Man - Part 2 of 4
What happens when a friend shows up with sharp doctrine and a dull heart? We step into the tension between justice and mercy through Bildad’s confrontation with Job, exploring why a black-and-white read of suffering can do real damage. Rather than treating pain as proof of guilt, we unpack how easy it is to demand tidy confessions that fit our systems while ignoring the person right in front of us. Along the way, we revisit Job’s lament as something richer than complaint—an honest act of worship that trusts God enough to speak from the depths.
Together, we trace the hazards of certainty without knowledge: assumptions built on outcomes, accusations without evidence, and a tone that turns truth into a weapon. We examine the claim that “God doesn’t bend the rules” and ask if that means every calamity is a verdict. It’s a sober look at how scripture can be used to heal or to harm, depending on the heart that carries it. Our own stories enter the room too, with candid admissions about condescension, quick fixes, and the habit of finishing conversations like gavel drops instead of invitations to grace.
If you’ve ever been on either side of “tough love” that landed like a punch, this conversation offers a different path. We call listeners to a sturdier compassion—one that holds truth while refusing to crush, that can sit in ashes before prescribing solutions, and that remembers God’s justice is unwavering even when our read of a situation is not. Press play for a grounded, pastoral take on rebuke, lament, and what real love sounds like when the stakes are high. If this resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a friend who needs kindness with their clarity, and leave a review to help others find the show.
BE PROVOKED AND BE PERSUADED!
Retribution, but this time it is stricter. He's going in. So he's going in. Let's go.
SPEAKER_06:Anything you want to add, brother? Uh yeah. I just got in this conversation about five minutes ago, but I kind of really understand where it's all going. I kind of look at this like it's a play. Yeah, I call this God's play because in the end, God is in control of the good and the bad. This is his movie, and we're just watching it. You know what I mean? So that's all I can say about this right now. I just, you know, it's I'm just watching the movie play out. All right.
SPEAKER_08:Brother Pat, come on, brother.
SPEAKER_02:Perhaps Bilidad is something of a pragmatist in that he thinks in terms of problem and solution. Let's get right to it. And and that and that can be a wonderful uh quality. It can get you far in life, but it can also make you a bull in a china shop.
SPEAKER_08:You hit it right on the head, because that's that's exactly what he's like. He he doesn't have the bull in a china shop. The bull in a china shop is it is an appropriate uh analogy for this because he he he because he doesn't care about um breaking job's heart even more. He he just goes right in. Like the comment in verse 4, the next verse, when he makes the comment about the kids, it's like it's it's it's just crazy to think that he would say something like that. And you know, you would, you would, you know, when I first read it, it was like, man, this is in the Bible. You know, and because it's such a it's such a it's something that we can really relate to um in our understanding today, because we live in a time where so, you know, people in general just don't care anymore. We don't keep we don't care about each other anymore. I'm talking about in a general way, society. And so he makes he makes this comment, and it's just it's just unbelievable. It's just it's really unbelievable. But you're right, he's a bull in the China shop. He he wants to get to the point. You're right, he's a pragmatist. He's just all about this is the truth, apply it, let's deal with it, get on with it, move on. That's that's that's exactly uh how he is. Sister Mariah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I find it interesting because obviously he doesn't know what Job does in his day-to-day life. It says that Job offered up sacrifices continuously for his children when they had their get-togethers because if they had sinned in their heart against God or something, you know, so it's like you don't know that he was continuously making these offers to God on the behalf of his children for their sin, you know. So just to assume, like, well, yep, your children sinned, so it is what it is. They caught the the bad tell of the end of what whatever it was gonna be for them, it's kind of um outrageous claim for him to just make not knowing the situation.
SPEAKER_07:Right, absolutely. Candy, go ahead. Candy.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I was just gonna reply to what I could be heard saying earlier. And basically it was suck it, he's saying suck it up, buttercup. Come on, admit to the truth. We tired of hearing the same old thing. Same old thing. So after everything Eliphaz already said, you still saying the same thing. Well, that don't make sense. So here we go again. And then and then, like you said, he it leads on to even your sons had to pay the consequences for their actions, for what they've done, even though we know Job was the one praying for them in their hearts and what what was being done. But again, it's they're Job's not talking out the side of his neck, he's literally coming from his soul, from the inner depths of his soul. And of course, I love it how this is an example of testing those spirits and knowing who your true friends are, so to say. Because that's exactly what Job's finding out.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And that's what God's trying to show us through their actions and how they're dealing with the one who's supposed to be their friend in need of their compassion.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, he he he's like, Bildad's perspective is like this. He's like, listen, I hear all this speech, Job, I hear your complaints, I hear what you're saying, and he's the kind of guy that's like, he's he's like, I got an in with the Lord, and he's not gonna take this from you. He's not gonna take this from you. And I'm gonna show you this in the next couple of verses. But this is how he thinks. He's the kind of guy that thinks he knows how God is viewing the situation, and see, and he and he's he's saying that you may, you know, your situation right now, you can tell me and tell me and elliphiz and build that, I mean, and Zophar and Eliphaz, you can tell us all these things you want. But God sees you, Joe, and he knows what I know, he knows what I know, and he's saying, your speech, what you're saying, all your complaints and your murder and your self-pity, this is not gonna stand up before God. In other words, God sees through you, I see through you. And see, and he is showing, and in his mind, Job's life is not consistent with godliness. All of this he bases on the fact that Job is suffering. And he is saying to Job, if you were truly a godly man, you would have more restraint. You would hold back your tongue, you would stop talking. What you're saying is full of wind. It's windy. There's nothing, there's no, there's no substance there whatsoever. He is he's accusing Job of being this a dishonest person in understanding his own his own self. Either he's accusing him of being dishonest or accuses him of being blind and not seeing what his problem is. You know, Joe Bildad just thinks that Job is just being irreverent, that God has given him a long leash and he abused it. He abused his blessings. In verse 3, he says, Bildad says, and this supports what I'm already saying, Bildad says, Does God pervert judgment? Or does the Almighty, does he pervert justice? Brother Jeff, what do you think he means here when he says, when he's asked the question, does God pervert judgment? Does the Almighty pervert justice? What is he saying?
SPEAKER_09:He's asking him, uh, Job, do you think that God is sinning against you? Why haven't you come clean with what you've done? God's not going to pervert justice just to cover you. No, he's saying to him, or trying to remind him, my take on it, he's trying to remind Job that God is a just God, okay, a righteous God, and Job needs to come clean with his sin. And like I said about verse 2, Bill Dad is asking, how much longer are you going to keep doing this? We want to go home. Confession sin. Let's go home, okay? Or something to that effect. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_09:You've heard enough.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_09:Okay, you're blather, blah, blah, blah. What you do? Spit it out. Like you said, he's very direct. And I think he's to the point to the direct being direct to the point of being hurtful towards Job.
SPEAKER_08:Amen. Sister Lisa, what do you think? Does God pervert judgment or does the Almighty pervert justice? What does he mean?
SPEAKER_03:Well, the the answer to those things is obviously no. And he knows, um, Bill Dad knows that Job is going to say no, he doesn't. So he says it in such a way, so accusatory. Right. It's almost like if Job answers the cor the question correctly, so you're saying God doesn't, then tell me why he's doing all this. Right. You know, it's really, really awful. I just feel terrible for Job right now.
SPEAKER_08:So brother Jeff, you got it right. You gotta, you got it very right, very right. And Jeff says something good too, that that that basically uh, you know, you know, it's not that he's he's implying that, you know, like is God wrong in this whole situation? But when he talks about perverting judgment, it takes me back to or up to Galatians. You know, because when he talks about perverting justice and perverting uh judgment, he's saying, what what Job, what Bill Dad is saying is this to Job. This is what he's saying in modern lingo. He's saying, do you think God is gonna bend the rules, his own rules for you? Do you think he's gonna compromise his own righteousness to accommodate you? In other words, what makes you think you're so special that God is going to augment his dealings on these on these issues and let you skate past it while everyone else has to deal with it? That's what he's saying to him. He's saying that, he's saying that, oh, so God's gonna treat you differently. You believe you're special. Like Angie says, who do you think you are, Joe? That's exactly what he's saying. What makes you so special? The gent says that. This is exactly what he's saying. So you think that God's gonna give you special treatment. And this is what this is what he's saying. You know, and he, you know, and he thinks that Job's that his arguments and that his complaints and that his and that his spilling his guts and pouring out his soul, he's implying that God, build that is is is implying that Joe is implying that God has wronged him. In other words, Job, you think you're more righteous than God, so much so that God has to bend his own justice and judgment in order to accommodate and facilitate you. He attaches divine justice, he attaches the divine justice of God and ties it directly to the outward circumstances that Job is dealing with. He is only looking at what he sees. He sees the house gone, he sees the kids dead, he sees the wife cursing him, he sees the boils from head to toe, he sees Job sitting in the dust, scratching his boils with broken pottery. He already saw the first friend, Eliphaz, tear him down. Now he wants to dogpile on top of this. Sister May, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:All right, Bill Dad is already coming in hot for me. Um, super hot. I feel like Bill Dad is, and we're gonna see as we read through the chapter, I think that Bill Dad is confusing honest lament, which is what Joe was doing, almost in tying it to blasphemy. Like he's blaspheming God, but his lament is not empty. His lament is worship, but he's seeing, he's not seeing it as his lament being worship. He's seeing it as empty and almost blasphemy. And that's why he's coming for his kids and and and even in verse 3, it says, Does God pervert his his judgment? Or does the Almighty pervert his justice? Right. He's acting like he's defending God, right? Right, but again, he's misapplying it. Right. And he's almost, in my opinion, he's almost accusing Job of blasphemy.
SPEAKER_08:Right. I mean, I I like I you're right about that. He he's he's he is accusing Job of hypocrisy, he's accusing him of hiding uh sin. He's accusing accusing him of believing that he deserves an undeserved righteousness. He accuses Job of thinking that he can influence God's favor and or elicit God's favor, even though he's sinning. He's accusing Job of having this antinomian spirit. I have no law, I can do what I want to do, and God will bless me anyway.
SPEAKER_04:May I say one more thing? Sure. Okay, so let's let's pull the truth out of Bildad for a second. So the truth in Bildad and what he's saying is God does not act unjustly. Okay, so that's that's the truth in the statement and what he's saying. But and he's also saying he is talking about God's sovereignty, and it is perfect in always, but again, the way that he's relaying this is he is acting as Job was speaking empty uh empty, you know what I mean? But he wasn't, it had substance in in what Job was saying, right, right.
SPEAKER_08:Good good point, very good point. Brother Penn.
SPEAKER_02:Well, is it possible because he views things from a sort of uh a facts-based perspective, that he's maybe smarter than the average bear. He's maybe used to being correct more than a lot of his other friends who are more emotionally based, and he thinks he's got the world figured out, knows how it works. So maybe he's being a little condescending, but sincerely, from a sincere place, like maybe he really sincerely believes that Job, you just don't know how the world works, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_08:Right. And you know, listen, I'm I'm gonna tell you something. You know, I read Eli Files, you know, we read Eli Files already, and you know, and and you know, you you see what he how he speaks to Job and how he is, and you know, he's an old school kind of sage guy. He uses his his age and his uh wisdom and and all this kind of stuff to sort of tower down. But Bill Dad is like that. You're you're right, he is very condescending indeed. And I gotta tell you, me reading Bill Dad and and putting together his bio for you guys tonight, it was making me look at myself and go, I see a lot of me in this guy. And I hate to say that, but it's true. And you know, and I but I try to look for when I see these characters like this in the scriptures and how they are, especially when it comes to their sin, but I'm thinking, man, I see a lot of me in this whole thing. And it becomes humbling, it becomes very humbling. And it and it and it and it makes me want to uh you can't help but self-reflect, you know, especially if you're gonna share this with your other brothers and sisters, you know, it it would be I would be amiss if I didn't, you know, tell you I see a lot of myself in this guy. So, you know, because I think that he's the kind of guy that he believes that when he says something, once he says it, it's settled. It's settled. He doesn't care what you think after that, what you say after that, doesn't matter. He believes that what he says is that's it. That's it. And nobody else in the room is smart enough to challenge him. And most people probably won't challenge him simply because they don't want to deal with the with the blowback, you know, and um, and I can definitely see a lot of that, certainly in my past, and probably creeps up every now and then. And um, so if you ever see that, please forgive me in advance. But I see a lot of these these these traits that he has in myself, and I think it would do us all good to see if there's anything like this in our own in your own hearts, and and you know, and we've got to purge these things, and we gotta see this in all of these people that we're gonna be talking about because we don't want to respond to brothers and sisters who are struggling like Job is in varying degrees, and respond to them the way these guys are. Sister Angie, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Can you hear me, brother? I can hear you. Okay, I just want to say this is good that you said that because when we're looking at scripture and we see all these different things and different characters, that it's very important to self-reflect and see, hey, am I being this person? Am I doing these things? And then to see how you know you correct yourself with the word of God, because that's what it's for. It's to also change and transform us. So in order to do that, we do that self-examination is so crucial, it's so crucial to us. I mean, you know, I I know everybody knows I'm going through my Joe moment, but I'm seeing this too is I've actually, and to confess and to be um, you know, transparent and vulnerable, I've also, brother, have had the same stance you did. You said is I can be that way sometimes to some people, but when you're fired on fire for the Lord, you want to stick to what scripture says, but you also got to make sure that you're not doing this to a brother or sister that's really going through it because these are the things that they don't want, they don't need to hear. It's not lifting up, it's not lifting up, it's not encouraging, it's not supportive, it's just not, and that's what we're supposed to do as the body of Christ for our brothers and sisters.
SPEAKER_08:That's right. If if you're if you're dealing with a brother or sister or or anyone for that matter, and you are like like Lisa pointed out, you can be saying true things, but if there's no heart intermingled with that truth, if there's no compassion intermingled with that truth, then all you're doing is weaponizing the truth. You're not using the truth as a salve or as a bomb, as a healing, as a as a as a as a tool for healing. You're using it to beat somebody up with it. You're using it as a billy club. You know, and and that's and that's what we don't want to do. And this is what so many people are prone to do. You know, I saw this almost every day I see one of these, I see some brutal um uh disputes with Christians on on TikTok. I saw another one today. It was unbelievable. I saw a couple of them. And I was like, man, you know, and when you hear and when you stand on the outside and you look at it, you know, when you're not part of it, and you watch it, you're going like, oh my gosh. This is what the this is, and these people, it's like they it's like they get into this bubble and they don't realize that other people are listening. And these other people are listening and going, yeah, that's what I want to be. Those people are trying, those very people are trying to convince me to be like them. It's um it's unbelievable. I saw two good ones today. In fact, Meg, I think you were in one of them, I think. But uh, you know, but this is this is. What this is what people do. How are we going to persuade people to come to faith when they look at us ripping out each other's throats and just tearing each other down every which way? And and uh and the fact of the matter is it becomes very difficult for people to look at to look at and hear the truth from all that noise. Bildad speaking to Job, and he his case is that if you got suffering, then justice, the justice of God must be required. Job, if you're suffering, you're being afflicted. That means God is exacting his justice. This guy, he looks at the word of God. Job looks at the word of God, and he says, I mean, not Job, Bildad looks at the word of God. He goes, This is what it is, it's black and white. He doesn't look at anything deeper than that. And there are always deeper elements to be considered. And you and you have to assume that if you don't know for a fact what it is. Bildad and his and Job's other comforters, they want him to confess to things that they don't know he should be confessing about. In other words, they have no clue. They're just making an assumption based on the outward uh situation that has plagued Job. That's all they have to go on. Nothing else. Like I said earlier, they don't, they don't, there's no rumor, there's not even a rumor that he committed adultery, that he stole, that he lied, that he cheated, that he false swear, that he treated his parents wrong, that he abused his children. There was nothing like that. They have no evidence. Now think about this. You would think that if they heard about Job's affliction from wherever they came from, you would certainly think that they would have to have heard about Job's reputation up to that point. They heard nothing about that. Because if they did, if they had heard about anything bad in Job's life before they got there, they certainly would have been able to bring that to account and have Job give a response to it. But there was nothing like that. None of them brought anything to light. None of them had anything for Job other than platitudes and aphorisms and whatever else, platitudes and maxims. That's all they had. History, antiquity, the fathers, the church fathers said this and said that, you know, but they didn't have any accusations. And what they're doing is accusing him of something, but they want him to manufacture it. They want him to manufacture what it is, so that they themselves can be justified by what he will have to say. And so it's really a really complex situation. And Bildad has no interest in looking into deeper reasons as to why Job might be going through this. He has no idea. He's not a man that you will consider to be full of wisdom. You'll consider him to be sort of a man who is always boisterous and bloviating all the time, always talking, always trying to recite doctrines, recite the church fathers, recite the history, recite tradition. That's what he does. That's what he does. And so he's not looking at other realities that could that are that are that can be certain, that can be the result of affliction that was not deserved. And we know that what Joe got, he did not get because he deserved it. Not for anything that he did. And we all know that. Brother Jeff, encouraging servant. Anything you want to add?
SPEAKER_09:Uh not at the moment, brother. I just stepped outside to sit and let the dogs outside for a few minutes. I'm a little behind on the conversation, so hang in for just a minute, okay? Thank you.
SPEAKER_08:That's right. Brother Esko, how about you? Any comments you want to add?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, the truth always comes, I find personally, from people that I don't either like or uh, you know, people that just don't really care too much about you. But sometimes they speak the truth, you know, and it hurts you because you're saying I'm righteous and he's not. And so who are you to tell me anything about what's going on in my life? You know what I mean? I mean, this happened to me a few times. Right. But I think I I personally think that, I think he's trying to say to him, just repent, and God will be have justice. He's he's fair. He'll he'll be fair to you if you just repent.
SPEAKER_08:Absolutely. Um Sister Mariah, anything you want to add?
SPEAKER_01:Sir, not at the moment, pretty clear cut.
SPEAKER_08:Absolutely. All right, so now we get to verse four. And I'll keep going around asking people, we'll give you guys a shot. Um, verse four, Bildad says to Job, and I think this is like the one of the coldest things anybody said to Job in this whole book. He says to Job, if your children have sinned against him, and he has cast them away for their he and he and he has cast them away for their transgression. When you read this, when you read this in uh in in Greek, and I'm not gonna do that because that's cheesy, it's really strong. He's he's he's telling Job, he's going, listen. Because think about this. He's already telling Job that the reason you're going through this going through this affliction is because of sin, because of transgression in your life. Now keep in mind, there's only one thing worse that could happen to Job that hasn't happened, and that is death. And remember, that was the one thing that God told Satan you can't do to Job. You could do anything else, but you can't take his life. That would be a bridge too far. But now Bildad says to Job, if your children have sinned against him and have cast them away, and he has cast them away for their transgression. So what he what he is saying, he's he's telling Job, your kids, your ten children, your seven sons, your three daughters, they died because of their sin, their transgression. This is this is what he's telling Job. He said he and he's telling Job, you so far are still alive. So confess. Otherwise, your end will be the same as it was for your children. This guy, like listen, he's heartless. He's heartless, but he thinks, listen, like a lot of Christian people who think that they need to have this tough spiritual veneer. They have, you know, you meet Christians flip through TikTok and go through some Christian lives. You'll hear it. You'll hear people just going off, but they think that it's right. They think that this is holy anger, holy retribution, holy whatever. They rationalize it. But this guy, this there's no compassion, there's no concern for the relationship. Only about communicating and using the word of God to clobber somebody. That's what Bildab is like. Like the old Fantastic Ford character. It's clobbering time. He takes the word of God and all he wants to do is beat people over the head with it. He doesn't care, he just got the Bible and he's just beating people over the head. That's all he's doing. He's using the right words, he's got the doctrines right, but there's no heart behind it. There's no compassion, there's no mercy. He's brutal with the word of God. And all I see amongst Christians so much so, and I've been guilty of it in the past. I'm not gonna be make myself absolved from that. I've been guilty of it in the past, especially in my young Christian life. Guilty of brutality. Taking a word and using it like a like a billy club on people's heads and hitting them in the leg, hitting them in the back, hitting them in the head.
SPEAKER_07:No compassion.
SPEAKER_08:When you get into these rooms, these chat rooms, or these panels where people are fighting, whatever, you be the one that tries to quell the nonsense.
SPEAKER_07:Because it's not godly.
SPEAKER_08:And we're seeing it right here in the book of Job. Every aspect, every foul part of a person's being, as a Christian, we're gonna see how they exhibit themselves and how they show themselves in the way that Job's friends are dealing with Job.
SPEAKER_07:It's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_08:I shouldn't say it's unfortunate. It's a blessing, but it's unfortunate. And at the same time, it's a paradox that we accept. That when you get older, you start to realize these things and see the real strength of God's word. It is it truly is expressed in love. But the thing, the thing that people don't understand, we we we talk about love so much that it has no meaning. We don't really know what love is. Love is what love is when is what you display. You know, the real the real picture of it is when you show love to someone who despises you, who hates you.
SPEAKER_07:Look what Christ did for us. I don't know if there's anyone here on this panel or anyone listening who can say that before they came to Christ, they loved him. They heard about him. They heard about him for sure. If you live in America, you heard about Christ. But man, he shows us his love. He shows us what he did. He showed us what who he is and what he did being who he is, and it breaks your heart, and we're broken, and we submit to him in humility because we see how he loved us.
SPEAKER_08:And here's the thing when that person wants to start something with you, wants to start a big religious fight over something stupid, there's a different way, a better way for us to exhibit it exhibit a response that won't result in locking horns.