LIVE DISCUSSION: (Job 8:1-7) - Bildad, A Cold Man - Part 3 of 4

Ever had someone tell you a “true” thing that left you bleeding? We dig into the moment Bildad lectures Job and ask why words that are technically correct can still be spiritually harmful. Our focus is not on watering down doctrine but on elevating delivery: truth as a surgeon’s scalpel, not a demolition tool. We trace how a single conditional—“if your children sinned”—plants seeds of doubt, shifts identity, and turns pastoral presence into prosecution. Along the way, we unpack the temptations behind certainty theater: assuming an inside track on God’s motives, collapsing complex providence into tidy equations, and treating grace like a transaction.

You’ll hear how Scripture’s image of the sword calls for holy restraint and skill. A soldier can act without malice; a surgeon can cut to heal. We talk about speaking with precision, naming the real wound, and refusing to magnify pain with misapplied verses. There’s a startling twist too: Bildad accidentally voices a true word about Job’s restoration, reminding us that humility must govern how we apply truth. God’s justice is not a vending machine, and prayer is not leverage—it’s relationship in the fog of suffering.

By the end, we offer practical guardrails for counsel that helps rather than harms: start with listening, avoid speculative “if” accusations, tailor the word to the wound, and let the truth own you before you try to apply it to anyone else. If you’ve ever been crushed by a “loving” correction—or worried your own counsel might do the same—this conversation will sharpen your discernment and steady your hand. If it resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more thoughtful conversations, and leave a review to tell us how you navigate truth with mercy.

Chapters

• 0:00 Bildad’s Harsh Accusation
• 2:37 Truth As Scalpel, Not Chainsaw
• 6:30 Weaponizing Scripture And Motive
• 10:45 “If” Language And Spiritual Doubt
• 13:20 Seeking God, Misreading Job
• 16:30 Prophetic Irony In Job’s Outcome
• 19:20 Owning Truth Versus Being Owned By It
• 22:00 Formulaic Faith And Transactional Grace
• 25:15 The Cost Of Misapplied Counsel

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:01

And at that moment, only you will know what that is and how to do it. But you have to find that. You have to dig deep. This is what Bildad doesn't do. He's not a deep guy. He makes everyone think he is, but he's not. He's a very surface guy. He's the kind of guy that just weaponizes the Bible. Like Angie said, he doesn't use it to build up and to edify. He uses the word of God to tear down and to break apart, to be destructive. Brother Patrick, Brother Pat said the same thing. He said the same thing. In fact, Brother Pat, go ahead. I think you got something to say. And then Jeffrey, the encouraging servant.

SPEAKER_01: 0:41

Oh no, I think it I think it was Jeff.

SPEAKER_03: 0:43

Okay. All right, Brother Jeff, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 0:47

Jonathan, if we're going to show love by speaking absolute truth, we have to approach that. Like we have a surgeon's scalpel in our hand. Very slowly, very gently, cutting away that which is false, that which is not true, that which is hurtful and needs to be removed, instead of thinking of it as going in after it with a chainsaw. And yet what you've described, and what we all know, and I think we're probably, as you said, all guilty of it. How many times have we used truth as a blunt force object? Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46

We've been told this and reminded of this. And again, here in this situation, Bill Dad, even though he thinks he's in the right place, he is just, like I said a moment ago, he is kicking Job while he's down. Yep. He's accused his children of sin. Okay. Did he even bother to research the situation? Did they commit sin, or did he just pull this out of his hair or out of his head and just speak it to Job?

SPEAKER_04: 2:16

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:19

Brother, you bring up a really good point. Because when I say this, I believe most of you will have heard somebody say this at least one time in your life, if you haven't yourself said it before. I have said it. I'm just guilty tonight, all over the place. But have you heard, you know, if you get accused of not being compassionate, if you get accused of not being merciful, or if you get accused of being judgmental, and somebody might say to you something like, um, well, that's not loving. The way you're acting, the way you're talking to me, that's not loving, or the way you're talking to that person, that's not loving. And you may have heard yourself, you may have said this yourself, or you may have heard somebody else say this. Telling the truth, that is loving. Telling the truth is loving. And that's what we're seeing here. Because Bildad is saying the truth. Eliphaz was saying the truth. You're gonna hear Zophaz and Eli, Zophar and Elihu say things that are true, but they're not saying it in a way that exhibits love. Bildad, especially, but he's saying the truth. So the thing is the thing is, there's there's a way in which the truth is handled. In other words, to jest point, if somebody has the first inkling, if somebody has a splinter, a tiny splinter under the pinky toenail, and all that needs to be done is to pull the splinter out, you don't go and chop off the whole leg. Now get this. You may chop off the whole leg, and that will solve the splinter problem. But did you need to take off the whole leg to solve it? So it's how you apply it. And this is what and this is what what we need to, what we as believers need to understand. We need to tailor, we need to tailor the use or God's word in a way that that deals with what needs to be dealt with and be exact about it. Like brother just said about the scalpel. Brother Pat, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 4:49

I don't want to get off subject, but um when we're talking about this, I know that that this that God has given us the armor of God and He's given us the sword. They these are weapons to obliterate the enemy, uh, to demolish opposing principalities. And um so would it would it be would it be safe to say that there is a time and a place where the word needs to be brought to full bear, but may maybe not against our brothers and our sisters.

SPEAKER_03: 5:25

Absolutely. And and by the way, of all of those, of all of that armor that God gives us, number one, there's only one that's an offensive weapon. That's the sword. Only one, the word. And here's how here's how I plot it, brother. It's like this, like brother Jeff brought up. He brought up the scalpel. What does the scalpel do? It cuts. It cuts. And there are many things that a doctor does to us to us on the table that causes us great pain. But if they don't, if they don't do that, we could we could have some problems, some physical problems, and more, and worse, we could, we could, we could die on the on the surgery table. But here's what we're talking about. We're talking about the demeanor, the disposition of the person that's handling it. You know, there's a difference between a soldier on a battlefield fighting for the country, it's supposed to be anyway, and who is not fighting out of malice, but may perhaps be stopping an enemy. Somebody comes into your house and you got your wife and family, and you got you got your you know, your your piece on this, you know, your your weapon in the house, and you have to use it, you may not like using it. You may have a lot of serious mental problems after you do use it, but you had to do it, and it wasn't out of malice. And so what I'm saying here is this there can be ways in which people will use the weaponry of God, the word of God, and they will use it in a way that is motivated out of a type of spiritual malice. They're not trying to like over, because what is what what when you think about it, what is it, what is our goal in using the word? What does the word of God really do when it is when it is applied? When it is applied to people, when we're when we are wielding it to others. It is to break them down and it is to get them to a point where they see a need for the savior, right? It's it's intended, yeah, like Brother Old School says, the weapons that we have give life. They are a tool, they are a tool to be used in order to impart life. We don't do it, but it is a it, but when we speak God's word, he uses that to communicate his blessings to those who hear it.

unknown: 8:04

That's just what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03: 8:05

So, yeah, you're right. We we we do, but I think that it has a lot to do with how we present it. It's like it's hard to say, but we when you watch some of these things, like I was telling you earlier about some of these wars that that are taking place in these online panels and these art. I mean, they're they they are brutal, man. I'm telling you. They're brutal. That can't be what the Lord had in mind for us to be ministers, that can't be what he had in mind.

SPEAKER_05: 8:34

It's Nikki Laser, host of the Golden Loads on CBS.

SPEAKER_03: 8:38

So, anyway, hold on, my brother got his microphone on. Uh, so anyway, uh I hope I hope that addresses it a little bit, Pat. I'm not really sure, but uh, I hope it does. Um, so anyway, Joe has to hear these words from Dildad about his children. And I just think that's just like that's just like ice in the veins type of thing, to say something like that. And uh and and he presented it in to Job in a way where he presents it to Job in a way like, you know, you should know this. Like he he he says it in a way like Job, this shouldn't be a surprise to you. If they're dead, it must have been because of transgression. But he's so as a matter of fact, I mean, three four verses in, and this is what he says to Job. Just three short verses in, this is what he says to Job. And he's basically saying, if it wasn't for transgression, they would still be here. This is a cold-blooded guy. He's a cold man, cold man, and he just he he just takes everything down to the lowest common the lowest common denominator in his mind and says, if you are suffering, there is some kind of moral issue, dilemma at play here, and all you need to do is stop all this bloviating and just say what it is so that we can start dealing with that. Uh Sister Angie, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06: 10:28

Uh yeah, brother, something stuck out to me when I started reading this verse three. Um, well, he says, if your children have sinned, right? So he says the word if, and I don't like if question. I'm sorry, I just don't, because it's a red flag for me. Because it reminds me of when Jesus was being tempted by Satan. So if you I think we lost it. But when he was testing, the first thing that that he said, no, did you hear me?

SPEAKER_04: 11:00

Yeah, no, I hear you. Go ahead. Do you hear me? Yep.

SPEAKER_06: 11:02

Testing one, two.

SPEAKER_04: 11:03

I hear you. I hear you.

SPEAKER_06: 11:06

Okay, so when he when he tempted the first thing he said to the first thing he said was, if you are the son, says if your children have sinned, when you know he prayed for them. You know what I'm saying? Do you do you see the I'm just seeing the connection? I'm sorry, brother.

SPEAKER_04: 11:24

No, no, you're not even going to be connected to the connection.

SPEAKER_06: 11:25

I'm just saying, it's just not yeah, it just that's what I saw in there was like, hey, because I remember that the accuser would say, if you're not, it's a questioning. They want you to question who you are in cr in God. And us when we deal with that today, it's questioning our identity in Christ.

SPEAKER_03: 11:44

Right. Yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06: 11:46

It it's so you get that if you are, so that just I hear you.

SPEAKER_03: 11:52

I hear you. You're going in and out, but I I I got that I got the.

SPEAKER_06: 11:55

That's what I wanted to say, brother. That's that's hot to me.

SPEAKER_03: 11:58

No, I got it. Perfect. All right. So now I'm in verse uh five. I'm in verse five. Anybody else want to say anything before I move on to verse five? Anyone else? All right, so verse five. Uh Bildad says to Job, if you would seek unto God betimes and make your supplication to the Almighty, if you were pure and upright, surely now he would awake, he would awake for you and make your habitation of thy righteousness, and make your habitation, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosper. Though thy beginning was small, yet the latter end shall greatly increase. Anybody want to take a guess at what he's saying here? Anybody? What's he saying?

SPEAKER_07: 12:50

He's saying if you'll go to God and admit what you've did done wrong, surely he'll forgive you and restore everything that that he's you know that's gone on.

SPEAKER_04: 13:01

Right.

SPEAKER_07: 13:01

So he's, I mean, he's saying basically again, we know this, we he doesn't know the truth behind it, but yet there's some truth to what he's saying here. So it's I just can't imagine Job listening to it because he's especially in his state, knowing his relationship with God and him thinking, well, is he right? Surely he knows I didn't do anything wrong. And this has got to be more confusing for Job. Again, what does the um what does the adversary do to us when when he comes at us? He causes us confusion in our in our mind and so on and so forth. This is just heartbreaking again for me.

SPEAKER_03: 13:49

You break out the Kleenex.

SPEAKER_07: 13:52

I know. It's just mean. It's so mean.

SPEAKER_03: 13:55

It's it's bad. But you know, this is this is how we are, sister. This is how this is how we are to each other. You know? This is how and we have to watch, we have to keep ourselves from falling into this trap. Brother Pat, and then Mariah, and then Meg after that. Brother Pat, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 14:10

I just want to mention that he's assuming Job's guilt, which shows you that sometimes even your closest friends don't know you as well as they think they know you.

SPEAKER_03: 14:20

That's true. That's true. And it also shows sometimes who your close friends really are. Are they really that close? Because he's this guy's not giving Job, neither one of these guys have given Job even the slightest room for any other consideration. There's no room for consideration with them. They assume that if this is what's happening, it's just a mathematical equation. Simple as that. Affliction and suffering comes from sin and moral deviance. That's the that's that's the equation. And this and that moral deviance is understood by what is happening to you on the outside. And the whole lesson, a big part of the lesson for us out of this book, is not to judge the book by the cover, to put it in a modern-day cliche. This is what is happening. And there's no thought to the pro to the possibility that there may be something deeper, something more spiritual going on here, something more at play. The idea that he's being tested for God's sake is a big it's a big deal. Sister Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 15:38

Um, you know, as you're reading it, I all I can hear is like, you know, if you were seeking God as earnestly as you are talking to us, right, you know, then you may find some resolution to what it is that's going on here. You know, if you pour out your heart to God as low as you are to us, you probably wouldn't be in this situation.

SPEAKER_03: 16:02

That's exactly what he's saying. That's exactly what he's saying. Exactly. And what's and what's mind-boggling boggling to me is this in verse 6, when he says, if you were pure and upright, which we already know God said that he was, surely, now look at this, surely now he would awake for you. So Bildad is speaking as though he's got an insight track on what God is doing. He's telling Job that you are going through what all you're going through, talking all this stuff, and God is sleeping. I know he's not sleeping. He'll wake up when you start being honest. He's reduced God to this robotic sort of character that is not involved. And he doesn't understand that God is merciful. He doesn't understand, it doesn't cross his mind that God sees Job's struggles and that God is going to provide aid. It's there's no possibility. But he's acting like he has an inside track on God. And this is how a lot of people are when they believe they understand the truth in the most proper way. They think they know God so well that when you're struggling, their understanding of God is gonna be more magnified in your eyes in terms of what you believe they understand. This is how people are. And we have to like see past these kinds of things. And sometimes sometimes you have to just cut people off because they because these guys, they want to destroy you. You already down, and they want to beat you down even more. Uh, Sister Mae, go ahead. Meg.

SPEAKER_00: 17:43

Oh, sorry, I I just had to mute. So I think there's I think there's irony in this too. And and the irony is we see that Job has already been seeking God intensely, and his lamenting has been intense, and he's been asking the questions, and he's been he's been saying, Man, I Lord, you gave me these friends here. If I could just go be with you, I could just make everything known. But you've given me these people, these these friends, and he's Bill Dad is equating his his unanswered, unanswered prayer with like insincere thinking. Like Job is not sincere in what he's immensely been seeking God for this entire time. But see, Bildad is assuming in this verse, verse four, that Job has failed in approaching God correctly. And the reason is is because in verse four, he was speaking about his children. And then in verse five, it says, if thou wouldest seek unto God, meaning that he hasn't, right, unto bed times, bet times, and make thy supplication to the Almighty. So he's basically saying, I've been watching you the whole time. What you're doing is not correct, but if you would do this, then this is happening. Again, a false narrative being led by Job.

SPEAKER_03: 19:19

So let me ask you a question, because you mentioned irony. Yeah, I haven't heard the irony yet, but I do I but I do see irony here. I want to see if I want to see if you're saying seeing the same thing I'm seeing as as ironic. What do you so so in terms of what's ironic, what do you what are you talking about specifically?

SPEAKER_00: 19:37

I'm saying it's ironic in this verse that he's saying, if thou wouldst seek unto God, bet times. The irony is he has, but he's acting like that he hasn't. But he's been with him this entire time.

SPEAKER_03: 19:56

Right. No, I I get you. Yeah, I get you. But I that's what I think the irony is. Yeah. I see irony somewhere else too, and I see it in verse 7. Take a look at that, Megan, and read it and tell me where you see irony there.

SPEAKER_00: 20:08

Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.

SPEAKER_04: 20:16

But where's the irony?

SPEAKER_00: 20:18

The irony is what he had in the beginning, the Lord Jesus Christ doubles it.

SPEAKER_07: 20:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 20:28

At the end. And Bildad didn't even know what he was saying, but God was revealing. And I really pray that Job caught that at the end.

unknown: 20:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 20:39

Does everybody else see that? Everybody see that? He's in verse 7. He's being prophetic and doesn't even realize it. Just like just like Caiaphas the high priest. It's needful about one person die for the whole nation that the whole nation die not. He wanted to crucify Christ, but what he said was the truth and was prophetic. One would die for the whole nation, that the whole nation would not have to die.

SPEAKER_00: 21:04

Hold on. Wait, so so now that you said seven, let's go back to six, because again, it talks about the beginning. Because what did the Lord deem Job as? He was perfect, yes, he was perfect, upright, eschewed evil, fear of the Lord. So, but what does six say? It says, if thou wert pure and upright, surely now he would awake for thee and make thy habitation of thy righteousness prosper. But see, we get to see the heavenly scene that Job didn't get to see. So when we're reading the verse, we're seeing, oh Bill Dad, you are so wrong, man. If you only knew.

SPEAKER_03: 21:46

You're right, exactly. But in verse 7, but in verse 7, because here's here's what here's what I think about verse 7 for everybody. Listen to this. He goes, though thy beginning was so was small, yet your latter end shall be greatly shall greatly increase. This is this is this is all of us. Our beginning was small, but our latter end will be will greatly increase. Bildad is the harshest, probably one, probably the harshest of them all. And he basically prophesies about the Joe Joe Job's end and doesn't even realize that's what he's doing. Now imagine what happens later when God breaks in and tells this guy along with the rest of them, you guys go to Job so that he can intercede to me on your behalf after saying this. Oh my gosh. I love the word of God. I love it. I bet their tail was between their legs, like nobody's pissed. Yeah. They were like that, you know, that cartoon character that used to go, oh, you know. But uh, but uh sister Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_07: 22:58

You know what? I totally I totally forgot. So I guess it wasn't important.

SPEAKER_03: 23:04

That's why I did that.

SPEAKER_07: 23:07

Hey.

SPEAKER_03: 23:09

Brother Jeff, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 23:12

No, I just want to add here uh uh another statement about Bill Dad and truth. Bill Dad is coming at this towards Job arrogantly and thinking that he has so much truth and knowledge that he owns truth instead of being in the humble position of allowing truth to own him. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. We all we can do is instead of being puffed up with pride, we allow the truth to own us. Okay, and that's how we have to operate truth and why we need to work with it gently, which we're seeing Bill Dad not do here. Right. Again, uh truth is a powerful thing. We've got to use it precisely, but use it carefully. This is an excellent, excellent example, Jonathan, of how not to do this. Right. And sometimes we learn better by examples that tell us what not to do, as opposed to examples that tell us what to do.

SPEAKER_03: 24:23

Absolutely. So, Brother Pat, go ahead. You have something you want to add.

SPEAKER_01: 24:28

Well, that it's that's so spot on to me because I sort of envision Biladad as a guy who's probably right about a lot of things. He's probably the type of guy that's like, hey, you need to keep your bathtub clean or else you could get mold, or you need to get more organized, or else this could happen. And he's probably right.

SPEAKER_04: 24:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 24:47

But when it comes to spiritual things, that's not the same as as pragmatic advice when it comes to God. You have to be subject to God's truth.

SPEAKER_03: 24:58

Yeah, you know, you know, he he he he he's looking at all of Job's misery and affliction, you know, and he and he's telling he's telling Bildad, I forgot who said it earlier, but he's telling Bill Dad, look, if you if you really he's like he's he's that he's also in the place of that Christian that always tells you, you know, if you just start searching for God, somebody was talking about this earlier, you know, implying that he wasn't. I think it was Meg saying that. And so, you know, Bill Dad is saying, hey, look, if you search for God earnestly and sincerely and righteously, you know, and he's and you know, then he says, There's no way that restoration wouldn't follow soon after. Okay, this this is this is a picture he's painting. And he and he's saying, and he's saying that that that God never rejects the innocent. He he you know, he's he's his thing is like if you're innocent, Joe, that God will not reject you. That God will not reject you. But here's the thing. What did Christ say about those who have no sin?

SPEAKER_00: 26:09

He said you're calling God a liar. Well, it will only a fool says in it, yeah. No, but a liar.

SPEAKER_03: 26:19

When the Lord Jesus Christ says, they that are whole need no physician. That's what I was kind of leaning, you know, getting at. But you can but you're at the same you're at the same place. I mean, Christ came to save sinners, he came to save the guilty. He didn't come to save the innocent, those who are innocent in their own eyes. And and they are making this picture painting this picture of Job not only living outside of God, but he's like, listen, you're not even you're not even seeking God. If you would just seek God, then and make supplication to him, then God might wake up and and answer you and and give you what you want, make you prosperous. And even more so than before. You know, just humble yourself, Job, and then God will set things uh right with you. And and he's not, you know, what but Bildad, again, what he is saying here, he's saying true things. He's just not applicable to Job. They're simply just not applicable to Job. And it's such a it's such a um a mixed bag here. And I gotta imagine that Job is because I I'm sure that many of us, when we've had problems and when we struggle in life, and you know, somebody here, you know, everybody, everyone among us is always is somebody's having a struggle. You know, Angie Sedge talked about things that were going on with her, and and all of us, you know, people have, you know, Meg's sister. And sometimes when things happen, even if you know there's nothing, there's nothing heinous or egregious going on in your own life, and you're going to these trials and you don't know what it is, or you don't understand the reason why it's happening, and then somebody comes and starts telling you, well, it's because of this and it's because of that, and sin, and you need to be closer to God and all this kind of stuff, and it might make you think, well, am I close enough to God as I should be? Am I praying enough? Should I have been fasting more? Should I have done this more? Should I have been giving more? Should I have been doing this more? And and people, it will start to play on your mind. And I have to think that to some degree, Job is probably dealing with a little bit of that. Like, what if they're right? Is there some part of what they're saying that is true? Well, wait a minute. I think it may be true, but is that for me? You know, so I think he's wrestling with this whole thing, but I think that for the most part, he understands that there's not there's nothing that I can really point to that would warrant something this significant. And from the way he understands God, then we we have seen him how he sort of acknowledges God's sovereignty. In the last chapter, in the last few verses, he acknowledges that he has sinned and that he is in need of a pardon, and he's he's seeking God to um give him a break from this whole thing. He he's acknowledging God in a lot of different ways. So he has never left God, he's always been there, and he's and he's pleased that he's making is to God or to God. Um sister uh Meg and then Lisa.

SPEAKER_00: 29:32

I think that he's like also like like Bill Dead is also like trying to predict God's justice. Like, if God is just in all circumstances, but if you would do this, then this will happen. Or if you would have been like this, then this is happening. So it's like a causation almost that he's trying to determine between God's justice, but God is just no matter what. So whatever he does, he is just.

SPEAKER_03: 30:01

He's very, you're right, you're right. Absolutely, Mick. He's a very formulaic person. It's like I said, he's it he's equation-based. It's like suffering, condemnation. That's the reason. That's the that's what it is. He he says, there's nothing else to add up, there's nothing else to think, there's nothing, there's no other math involved. It's simple as that. If you're suffering, if you're being afflicted, if you're being persecuted, it's got to do with sin, you're guilty. With him, that's how it is.

SPEAKER_00: 30:30

And I think too, like since we came from chapter seven, right? Where man, Job again was replying and in anguish, we can't we can't forget that his friends were around. Right, right, and him hearing what Job was saying, it was like he was confusing Job's lament and seeing it as rebellion, even in the way that Job was speaking, but it was it wasn't that way.

SPEAKER_05: 31:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 31:04

Again, it wasn't empty. He he's like, he's he's treating God's grace also transactionally, in the same sense as the enemy thought the relationship that Job had with the Lord was transactional. Now Bill Dad's taking God's grace as if it were transactional.

SPEAKER_03: 31:24

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, Bill Dad, he went right in. He's he's going for the kill right off the bat.

SPEAKER_00: 31:29

He's on okay, no, he's he's another one I'd say something to. I'm I'm I'm over it at this point.

SPEAKER_03: 31:36

Sister Lisa and then Angie.

SPEAKER_07: 31:40

So, what you just said a few moments ago about how now Job is doubting himself. Um, maybe I did do something. That's exactly what I was gonna say earlier when.