The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: (Job 8:11-22) - Upholding the Perfect Man (Part 3 of 4)
Would your confidence hold if your safety net snapped like a spider web? We dive into the exchange between Job and Bildad to examine the difference between real trust and the illusion of security that prosperity can create. Bildad’s words land with force because they’re half-true: wealth is fragile, plans are brittle, and the plant of success can be uprooted overnight. But he misfires when he pins that charge on Job, equating loss with guilt and suffering with secret sin. We dig into that error and ask what it means to build on a foundation that endures when favorable seasons pass.
Along the way, we trace the spider web image through Isaiah 59, where outward activity cannot clothe the soul. We talk openly about how most of us lean on bank accounts, plans, and applause to feel safe—and how the tease of partial success keeps us chasing the next thing. Then we pivot to a saner rhythm: obey God and enjoy life. Paint the wall. Love your people. Be grateful today. Let go of “stuff” so it can stay a gift and not a god. That release doesn’t shrink your world; it frees you to hold what matters with clean hands and a steady heart.
We also sit with Job’s quiet. Silence is not surrender; it can be the place where dependence deepens and words return with weight. True counsel meets suffering with presence, not blame. Common grace is real, empathy is needed, and wisdom knows when a biblical idea is being used in the wrong moment. If you’ve ever felt accused in your losses or tempted to build your worth on what you own, this conversation offers clarity, courage, and a call back to what lasts.
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His trust is deceptive. In other words, you're not trusting in God. See, he's still attacking, he's still attacking more or less Job's what we would call today his salvation. He's attacking, he's attacking the very foundation of his belief, his spiritual beliefs. He's attacking his trust in God and saying, Your trust has been misplaced. Your trust is the trust you have is deceiving you into believing that you trust in God. But you can't be trusting in God. Otherwise, you wouldn't be suffering so much. This is what he's saying. You're deceived. Your trust is not well placed. You've you have misplaced your trust and have tied it to something that only leads to your perishing and your utter failure, which we are already seeing has begun. And then he says in verse 15, he shall lean, this person that forgets God and whose trust is like a spider web, he shall lean on his house and it shall not stand. Because his house is as fragile as this spider's web. Imagine if you go see a spider's web between two trees in the forest somewhere trying to lean on it. What would happen? It's so fragile you don't even you won't even feel it. And he and so he says, you lean on your house, it will not stand. You will hold to it fast, but it will not endure. Very word that Brother Pat used. It won't endure. And that's the reference that Lisa was making, I believe it was you, Lisa, that's talking about the the house built on a foundation of sand. As soon as a storm comes, collapse, it collapses, and great is the fall of it. So all these things are true. It is speaking about the fragility in putting security or the fragility in the things that you that you accumulate and hold to be your source of security. Because that would be a misplaced trust. But again, this is not the case with Job. What Bildad says here is profound and even deep. It just doesn't apply to Job. He just misplaced it. Job will end up being the very one that Bildad and all the rest of them are told that they must go to Job for him to intercede. God tells them, You go to my servant Job and have him pray for you. Brother Jeff, encourage your servant. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:Let's try to boil all of this down into one simple term. This is the term that just popped into my mind. Bill Dad is essentially telling Job, you're simply going through the motions of having a relationship with a righteous God. Right. You're just going through the motions. It's not there. You think it is, but it's not. You've missed the train. You've missed everything. You've struck out. God has taken everything from you, all this stuff that you thought was all so great and strong and kept you well. Now you're busted and broken and naked out here, and you're just you've gone through the motions, and now here's what the result of it. That's right. That's right. Sister Linda, you there?
SPEAKER_09:Yes, I'm here.
SPEAKER_08:I haven't heard from my sister yet. All right. Here's my question. This trust that we're talking about that's fragile and deceptive.
SPEAKER_09:Right.
SPEAKER_08:This speaks to a misplaced confidence. What kind of people have this kind of confidence? Have this kind of trust.
SPEAKER_09:Um, who have lack of trust? I would say it you're saying lack of trust. Um people who really um go to church for purposes other than to serve God.
SPEAKER_08:Um But what kind what kind of people what what what what people in this in this life have because what what do we we we said that this confidence and this trust is in the things of this world that provide for security, what kind of people have that kind of trust? Um who are the people that have that kind of trust? And it's not a trick question.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, most people. Yeah, most people most people um believe that worldly goods is what makes them. It actually makes them. It makes them, you know, uh other people envious of them. Um they walk with their chests, you know, uh up and proud, um, they hold their heads up high until calamity hits, which, you know, it it does sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. But the trust that Job has in God is because throughout what we've been reading, he has been able to just put the devil aside. He doesn't even think of the devil, right? He just continually focuses his attention strictly on God, even though Bildad is saying your trust in God is very weak. We know that it's strong, and he knows that it's strong. So he puts him aside as well, and that's why he's able to go back to him and counsel him. This is the true God, this is who you uh should be um um looking looking at. These are the the qualities of God, and he does um um show that throughout just in the the simple fact that he he takes the the the the the the arrows as well as the treasures, right? And so um we can just um look at the the opposite of of how he um has dealt even with them versus how they're criticizing him. It's almost the total opposite of everything they say about him, he lives a life that's different than what they're they're saying he lives right now.
SPEAKER_08:You're right. And see, so what so what this is somebody wrote, I think it was uh I think it was old school. This is talking about worldly people.
SPEAKER_09:Right.
SPEAKER_08:He's what what Bill Dad is describing are worldly people. He is putting Job on their level, the the level of the ungodly. The ungodly that that put their trust and hope into their stuff. Their bank accounts, their bank accounts, the accumulation of wealth, the cars, their, like I said, their retirement plans, all you know, all everybody has plans.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_08:Everybody has plans. And you you know, and and they tr and they they they start by trusting in those plans, not in God's plans. They trust in their own plans.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_08:And so, and then what ends up happening, they start getting what they what they want or some measure of it, um, and then it it make and it becomes this tease that allows them to continue going on and on and on. And so what ends up happening, they rob themselves of the joy of the blessing that's already in front of them while they're always looking for the next thing.
SPEAKER_09:Right.
SPEAKER_08:And so, you know, you know, you know, it's just like you know, you know, you know, my wife and I had a conversation about this. Uh, you know, I I want to like I want to enjoy in any house I live in, I want to enjoy it as if it's my last house, as if this is the castle that I always wanted to have. If I move on to another one, great. But if but if I'm here living with all this anxiety about what's gonna be next, and I don't enjoy here, then I never get to find peace. And this is for everybody. Listen, whatever God has given you right now, enjoy it as if it is the last thing. Treat it like that. You know, you know, paint that wall, whatever it is you want to do, enjoy the house that you're in, enjoy your family, enjoy the place, enjoy all of that while you can. If God blesses you to move on and do a bigger house or whatever, that's that's fine. Nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. What I'm saying is be thankful for what God has given you, knowing that He can give it, knowing that He can take it away, and and acknowledge your blessings. Uh, Brother Trevor, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so I I found a chapter in Isaiah, chapter 59, it talks about being separated from God. And this is kind of like how Bildad is almost playing God in this place. Because um, you mind if I read the chapter real quick?
SPEAKER_07:Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:Would that be okay? That'd be fine. It it's exactly what you just said. It's exactly what you just said. This is uh behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened that it cannot save, nor ear, uh nor his ear heavy that it cannot hear, but your iniquities have separated you from God, and your sin has hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity, your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perversity. No one calls for justice, nor does any plead for truth. They trust in empty words and speak lies, they conceive evil and bring forth iniquity, they hatch viper eggs and weave the spider's web. He who eats of their egg dies, and from what from that which is crushed a viper breaks out. Their webs will not become garments, nor will they cover themselves with their work. Their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is their hands, their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood. Their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity, wasting and destructions destruction are in their path. The way of peace they have not known, and there is no justice in their ways. They have made themselves crooked paths. Whoever takes that way shall not know peace. And that's exactly what you were just saying. And I just thought it was crazy that the spider web is also in that chapter. So that's a very good thing 59.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, very, very good. I mean, and and and what you're saying here, brother, what and what this is saying, when it comes what Bildad is doing is that he's telling Job that the prosperity that he had before, he's equating all of that in a nutshell to a spider's web that Job was deceived by. You know, and he's saying that Job, all the stuff that you had, that was that was a refuge for you, that was unstable. And you see how quickly it was all taken away from you, just as it is easy to take down a spider's web. And we had a good conversation about that, good exchange, and I like that. But when it comes down to it, this is what it's talking about misplaced trust, which is anywhere that isn't in God alone. In anywhere, in anything, in anyone that you place trust that is not Christ and not Him alone, is a spider's whip. It won't last.
SPEAKER_00:I just want to just say an observation that I've been making, like when Job's friends are talking, notice how like Job isn't responding. Okay, and I think that oftentimes, and I was reflecting on my own self, is like when I'm going through like suffering or something that's deep within myself, I I my spirit naturally doesn't want to like reach out, it wants to go in. And so so many times I like to be alone in my suffering. Like I just I I need to just be by myself and I just need to be with the Lord because I've come, it makes it hold on, two seconds. It it has your suffering to me eventually, or your pain, or whatever you're going through, immediately to me, or through my journey, has like put me in this place where I are I'm like, I know that there's nobody out here that can comfort me like you do, Lord. There's nobody that can that can get me right except for you. And so my only option, I feel at times, is just to go in and just be with the Lord because and that's what I feel like when Job's when when Job's friends are speaking, what what is not being said in the scripture is what I'm observing is Job is silent in these moments. He he has to be going inward first while they're speaking, in order to when he speaks next time, to say whatever it is that he's gonna say. So I think there's there's a lot of self-reflecting or thoughts that are going through Job's head, which oftentimes when we're suffering, it's the same thing. And so with that being said, it's just like I don't see how all of his friends are here seeing what they're going through. And then Bill Dad is almost worse than Eli Faz because he's just being a jerk right now, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_08:No, he he he's definitely worse than Eli Faz. He's worse than Eli Faz for sure. For sure. He's definitely definitely worse.
SPEAKER_00:But I think like you know, what the Lord does in our times of suffering is He is literally creating dependence on Him and Him alone. Who else can bring you out of something that the world says you won't come out of but God? Right, he's the only one, and so that dependency that we learn from these situations, in reality, when it's over, it blesses us.
SPEAKER_08:You know, absolutely no, no, I I get it, I get it, uh brother Jeff.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, Jonathan, you were uh uh talking a moment ago about uh obeying uh enjoying life, you know. And uh I have heard it said that life is very simple, simply obey God and then enjoy life. And I think if we can just keep that simple formula in our head all the time and in our heart, obey God and enjoy life. And I think that's exactly what he wants us to do. Right. Um uh you also mentioned things about you know the things that we have, the stuff as we call it in our lives. Well, tell me if I'm off base here. If you have something in your life like that that you enjoy, right, you want to keep it in your life, turn loose of it. Turn loose of it, give it to God. If you want to hold on to that thing, let go of it. On the surface, that makes zero sense. But in God's economy, that's exactly accurate. If you want to keep it and use it and have it, let go of it and give it to him.
SPEAKER_08:Amen. Brother Pat, anything you want to add?
SPEAKER_02:Not at this time, brother. The the brothers and sisters have really nailed it home, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_08:They're nailing it for sure. Sister Candy, anything you want to add?
SPEAKER_06:Did you did you call on me?
SPEAKER_08:Uh no, I called on Candy, but she I think she might be tied up. But go ahead, Mariah, why I got you. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:No, I was just gonna say it was just reminding me of the conversation that we had about uh lukewarmness and how they kind of were just in this state of mind that they had need of nothing and they're trusting in their own selves, and how quickly God said that he would cut them off or you know, spew him out uh them out of his mouth. And it's kind of ringing the same thing that witches um Bildad is saying to him like you know, you're you have this false trust, you think you you don't have no need for anything, and and you know, God is cutting you off, basically. So I found that pretty interesting, right?
SPEAKER_07:No, very good. Um, Sister Lisa, anything you want to add?
SPEAKER_03:No, not at the moment. This is so good. I'm just um taking it all in at the moment. Thank you.
SPEAKER_08:So in verse 16, Bildad continues talking about Job, and he uses another metaphor. He goes, He is he is green before the sun, his branch shoots forth in his garden, his roots are wrapped about the heap, and sees the place of stones. And if he destroys him from his place, then he shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee. Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow. Now, in the interest of time, I'm I'm I'm I'll count, I'm gonna kind of go through this a little bit because what Bildad is saying about Job, he's saying that Job is like this plant that flourishes. You know, it's growing like it's supposed to, enjoying the sun, enjoying the warmth of the day, enjoying the blessing of God. And his roots are going among the stones here, and they appear to be in a place like so. When you look at the stone, what do we know about the stones? They they they don't move. Right? And so what's happening is he's saying that he's uh he's he's growing. luxuriantly his roots wrapped among the stones and he appeared to be uh vigorous and well placed right but then it says that then it then what he is saying about job is that but suddenly this plant can be uprooted and then uh replaced by others and then it is as if you never existed basically he's saying this is what he's saying well at one point you were a big man you had everything you had it all the sun god's sun was shining on you in the warmth of the day you were green and your garden was was growing and flourishing and spreading and wrapped around stones and so they were they were they were held in place you know and then it says if you he and if if he destroy him from his place then that shall it shall deny him saying I have not seen thee meaning that that where are you now? Now you're nothing not only are you nothing but others will be put in your place and you will be forgotten. This is what he's telling them Behold this is the joy of his way and out of the earth shall others grow but in verse 18 just before that if he destroy him from his place then it shall deny him saying I have not seen thee in other words you know you're you're you're here today flourishing living in luxury the lap of luxury having everything today you have all of that tomorrow you have nothing you have nothing Jeffrey if you would read your verses I want to see what your translation says on these verses verses 16 through 19 if you don't mind reading it they are like well watered plant in the sunshine spreading its shoots over the garden it entwines its roots around a pile of rocks and looks for a place among the stones but when it is torn from its spot the place disowns it and says I never saw you let me stop right there.
SPEAKER_05:Jonathan where have we heard similar words spoken before I never knew you that's exactly what they're saying here. And verse 19 surely its life withers away and from the soil other plants grow.
SPEAKER_08:All right good so and so I want to make sure that's consistent with what I was looking what I had what I was reading because I I do my studies out of the King James I want to see what yours said something different. But it's saying the same thing it's like you're here today and you're gonna be gone and then forgotten. It's gonna be gone and forgotten. And that's what that's what he's that's what he's telling them.
SPEAKER_05:Now you had a comment Jeff you had your hand raised up yours and and and Lisa but uh you go ahead and say what you're gonna say and then I'll go to Lisa next was there something else you were going to add brother Jeff yeah it was the I never knew you comment that's what I was going to say I got it out there so I'm good.
SPEAKER_03:All right good uh Lisa and then Pat So I had two things come to my mind okay and when we're talking about at first he's a lush plant before the sun it reminded me of the seed that sprouts up and in but was it was dropped on stony soil so it doesn't have root but then I'm thinking it talks about when it it's ripped up so it reminds me of the tares who grow up amongst the wheat who look like wheat but but they grow up together and and um so bildad is basically just calling him a tear you're a tear bildad you know and there is think about this there is truth to what he's saying that about it there's truth in that we've even heard these stories from our Lord and they're very similar to what Bildad is saying here but like you said and we all know these things don't apply to Job under these circumstances right but yet there is some truth to to it you know so yeah he's my thought what Bildad is basically what he's telling Job is what he told him in the last uh group grouping of verses that Job you were prosperous but prosperity is momentary it doesn't last it's a spider's web it deceives you into thinking that it's going to provide security for you it it doesn't you all you do is lean over it and it all falls down is what Bildad tells Job you know and he says that the place will forget them once their judgment falls in other words Job had all this status and Bildad is telling him now that you lost all this kind of stuff you're gonna be forgotten.
SPEAKER_08:No one's gonna remember you you were walking around with the with your with your robes on and you were sage giving advice you were having sacrifonial services for your kids and you were you know were you know people in the men were the the people around you were were were coming to you for direction and advice and wisdom he goes now you're gonna you're gonna be a nobody nothing it's over and he and he says and and he says your removal even when you're gone no one will even notice that you were there this is what this is the picture that he's painting you're gonna just be forgotten you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna descend into the abyss of life no one's gonna know who you are and he said and he and he and he's basically showing him that you know God doesn't deal with the people like this unless they are somewhat to be blamed he's continuing to try to get job to admit his fault his sin and he says and and he and you know and he says until you're willing to do that you're never going to experience that good soil again remember he talked about if you were able to if you were able to get yourself on the right path you could you could see you know you can you can go from nothing back to having much increased so he still is telling job that if you're unwilling to deal with this to deal with your sin you're you're gonna go the way of the of the wicked and he's accusing him of uh of as much of being just this wicked person unlike I mean no different than any other unbeliever not just an unbelieving Christian he's putting job in this in this broader camp of just worldly people in general whose trust is completely misplaced you know and so this is what he's what he's telling them brother Pat go ahead it occurs to me in the way that um he sees the world that he doesn't recognize common grace in his own life you know he's he's seeing things well it must be something you did and so you know God would never do this you know what I mean and and he's not and he's not recognizing that but there also seems to be a sense of belittling you know here here job's at his lowest you've heard the term kick a dog when he's down yep is this what we really need to be doing right now as a friend yeah yeah that's exactly what's happening brother that's exactly what is happening that's exactly what's happening and I you know and I said in the when in the introduction to Job that I think these men had a I I believe they were seeing this opportunity. I can't verify that but I can see that happening in modern times and I and I get the feeling that you know you got these four men these miserable comforters that they see a great man taken down and each of them perhaps I would imagine want to be the ones that sort of fill in that vacuum they want to step into that role step into that you know that position and and to and to get the accolades to get the respect to get all these things that Job had to get that respect and and that and that uh sort of renown. And this this is how men are you know even in jobs I mean jobs can be you know especially corporate America it can be cutthroat places to be I know I've been there and you got to be brutal to survive because some every somebody's just waiting for you to make a mistake so they can step into your position and take over your office and get your desk and get your parking spot that's how the world works get get all you can and get more build bigger barns the richest man in the world is worth over$400 billion he could single handedly in world hunger world hunger but we in America we have this aspirational perception that we can do that here because they did it here or wherever they did so we keep rooting for them to get richer and richer and richer because we believe that somehow we're gonna be able to tap into some degree there's this aspirational quality we believe we're gonna live long but I'm gonna tell you something because I am so sick and tired of hearing Christians talk about what AI is going to do. What Bitcoin and and and what is what there's another word that they use uh uh I don't know what it's called uh but you know all that fancy stuff you know Bitcoin and and uh I can't think of what they call it but anyway between that and AI and all this other stuff every you know you got Christians crypto that's what I was thinking about crypto you know this is gonna take over everything you know Bill Gates comes out my wife tells me Bill Gates you know came out the other day and says in in 10 years we're gonna go down to two-day work weeks and you know so many Christians are worried worried about everything this is gonna happen this is gonna take over all this kind of stuff it's not gonna happen have you read have you read in the scriptures what the Lord Jesus Christ tells us is going to happen to the rich of this world who are not rich in mercy he has never said a good thing about about the rich not once and the only person the only rich person in the scriptures who has some some valuable notoriety was Joseph of Arimathea who asked for the body of Christ and put his body put Christ's body in his tomb other than that you will see no time where Christ ever speaks about the rich having a good go of it go read the book of Revelation about what the about what what John is told is going to happen to the rich don't be afraid of them don't be afraid of these people I don't care how much money they have how much power they have I don't care how much they try to stop us from telling the truth about the word of God and talking about the Lord Jesus Christ and believe me if you're paying attention to anything you should definitely take notice of the fact that that they are that the roadblock that the foundational stones are being laid out to come get us to come get us because right now if you talk about Christ for instance you talk about Jesus you talk about the Lord Jesus Christ being the king we are probably two or three steps away from them telling us that calling Christ the Lord Jesus Christ the King of all it won't surprise me one bit if that statement calling Jesus Christ King becomes anti-Semitic watch and see or hate speech or hate speech watch and see watch and see because it's going that way right now and I'm not being conspiratorial this is the way it has always been what did they say when Pilate put that um placard over the Lord Jesus's head when he was on the cross they he put on there king of the Jews in Hebrew Greek and in Latin and what did the what did the the Pharisees the religious rulers say to to to him for that huh take it down no they didn't say take it down they wanted it up there he said he was the king of the Jews say that he said right he said he was the Jews right right don't say that he is the king of the Jews say that he said he was the king of the Jews and then Pilate said what I have written I have written it shall stay yeah that's right so you can bet your last dollar i'll I'll I'll tell you something I firmly believe with every fiber of my being that my last profile was taken down because of that and you know what I will never stop never and neither should you because these people in this world they're gonna see what God is going to do on the behalf of his people they're gonna see and believe me I want to encourage every one of you to stand firm on the Lord Jesus Christ who I know you all worship and love and adore and want to love and worship and adore more than you do now. Do not stop never be afraid to speak about our Lord to anyone