(Job 15:7-13) "Were You The First Man Born" Part 1/4

Ever been “helped” by friends who seem more eager to win a debate than bind a wound? We walk through Job 15 and watch Eliphaz turn from counsel to sarcasm, challenging Job’s integrity with cutting lines about secret wisdom and ancient tradition. That pivot exposes a timeless trap: confusing humility with conformity, and mistaking tidy theology for true care.

I unpack why the friends’ confidence feels compelling yet harms Job. Their orthodoxy is intact, but the application is off, driven by pride and a need to be right. We talk about how real wisdom makes space for God to teach through trial, not just through inherited formulas. Affliction, received in humility, can reveal facets of God comfort never will; prosperity, when unexamined, can dull dependence and scatter attention. It’s a hard word: success can become the bigger snare, while suffering often clarifies the soul.

Our panel adds vivid, modern echoes—being called unspiritual for using your mind, told your learning makes you mad, or dismissed as arrogant when you hold to Scripture. We examine how a compromised heart can weaponize correct doctrine, why motives matter as much as arguments, and how to shepherd one another with tenderness. The aim isn’t to glorify pain but to recognize how God refines, purges impurities and strengthens resolve when comforts fail us.

If you’ve ever felt misread in your struggle or pressured to confess to fit someone’s system, this conversation offers language, courage and comfort. Lean in to a faith that listens, keeps a low heart before God, and lets truth heal rather than harm. If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help others find the conversation.

Transcript

Setting The Scene In Job 15

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Christians, how's it going? Hope everything is going well on this Wednesday evening. We're going to continue in our exposition on the book of Job, and we are in chapter 15 of the book of Job. Continuing the exposition on Job. And right now we are hearing from Eliphaz, someone we once heard from already. And now this marks his second discourse in his response to the condition and the reasons that Job is in the situation that he's in. And as we have said and understood over and over again, that he made accusations against Job, like the rest of his friends, that are not correct in that they assume that the reason why he is enduring such affliction and such hardship is due to some sin that he has committed, and his afflictions are the result of God's retribution when nothing can be further from the truth. And his friends, they launch a litany of theological weaponry against Job to try to get Job to submit to an assessment of himself that is not true or correct. And Job has been done an equitable job at defending Jews to relent. And they continue to level and to hurl their false charges against this godly man. Now we will find out later that Job has had some fault in his situations, but it's the fault that God is going to reveal to Job later has nothing to do with the reasons as to why he is undergoing these afflictions. The fault that Job is going to be confronted with later by God has to do with his defense of the attacks leveled against him by his friends. But we will cross that bridge when we get to it and we will discuss what Job was actually at fault with. But it's important to understand that what Job was at fault with had nothing to do with how he incurred this affliction, but his fault will be in how he dealt with it in his response against his friends. And God is going to reveal this to Job later. Now, last night we read how Elipha says in verse 2, he asked Job a question Shall a wise man utter vain knowledge and fill his belly with the east wind? Should he reason with unprofitable talk or with speeches wherewith he could do no good? You cast off fear and restrain prayer before God, for your mouth utters your iniquity, and you choose the tongue of the crafty. Your own mouth condemns you, Job, and not I. Your own lips testify against you. This is how Eliphaz opens up his second discourse in Job chapter 15 against his friend Job. By telling Job that he has been speaking thus far words that have no value, that have no weight. They accuse him of not exercising speech that is reminiscent of wisdom. They say that his words are empty and unprofitable, and that it gets in the way of his ability to pray, and he shrugs off his reverence for God. This is what they're saying to him. They said that you fill your mouth, Job, with your own iniquity, and you choose the tongue of the crafty. Basically, they're accusing Job of speaking with the mouth of a serpent, a cunning tongue. In other words, Job, you are you sound smart and it comes off smart, but it is crafty. It may be hard to argue against, but it has no true value and application. You're speaking like Satan. You're speaking with craft, and you chose to do so. This is what Job is dealing with. He is getting a tongue-lashing from his friends. And Eliphaz is digging in and continuing to impose his theological will, as it were, upon his friend Job. So now we ended off last night at verse six, and now we'll continue in verse seven. And Eliphon says this to Job. He asked the question to Job, Are you the first man that was born? Or were you made before the hills? Have you heard the secret of God, Job? And do you restrain wisdom to yourself? What do you know that we do not know? What do you understand which is not in us? Verses seven through nine there. Let's examine these words of Eliphath. And he says here in verse 7, Are you the first man that was born, or were you made before the hills? So now this is what happens when people have a trouble, when people have trouble rendering a dispute that is reasonable against someone who is able to speak with solid formality and doctrine. And so now he's resorting to sarcasm. It's almost as if he's given up on trying to make an argument, reason and rationale, logic. So when all else fails, he resorts to sarcasm. And that's where Eliphaz is right now, resorting to sarcasm and using that in the place of a good argument. Eliphaz here, he challenges Job's right to question inherited wisdom. And he implies by this that only a primordial being could possess such a superior insight. What he's saying is that you, Job, you cannot overthrow the ancient, the wisdom of the ancients by your arguments. He says it's impossible for you to be able to speak about things and speak against things that come from the ancient of men, the ancient men from old times. And he's saying, you think your insight is superior, but it can't transcend what has come before. And we know, and I know what it is. He treats Job as though he is saying something new. He is treating Job as if Job is sort of coming, putting a new spin on truth. And that is not what is happening. And in doing so, Eliphaz confuses humility with conformity. And so Job is exercising humility, but what Job's friends are expecting from Job is to conform to their way of understanding his situation. It's like I spoke last night. They want to stand in the place of the Holy Spirit in the situation when it comes to Job. They forget that God sometimes grants clarity through the suffering that people go through rather than their seniority as a believer. Now, here's what I mean. So they're thinking that, okay, Job, you are in this situation because of sin. You need to acknowledge what your sin is, and in doing so, conform. You need to conform. But they don't look at Job's humility and see that as the very thing that is really what is necessary in order to be in a proper standing with God. If the issue comes down to humility versus conformity, you have to ask yourself, which is it that will have the ability to prevail before God? And I would argue that the answer is humility. God requires humility, not pride and arrogance. And pride and arrogance is what is usually attended with conformity. You said, do this, I did this, now you owe me. That's conformity. But humility is what gains the grade when it comes to the Lord and his expectations upon us. Humility and the knowledge that you know that there is nothing that you can do apart from him, and that your acceptance with him has everything to do with him, and not you, not your conformity. This is what Job understands, and this is what his friends do not understand. What also Job understands, and certainly they do not understand, is that people have a tendency, Christians have a tendency to get a better and a more clear and a more unambiguous perspective about God when they go through trials and afflictions and persecutions. If you want to know and to have an advanced understanding about the God you serve, wait until you are afflicted. Because then you will know. Then you will gain the next level in your understanding about God. An understanding which can only be seen through the lenses of affliction. Job has those lenses, those lenses over his eyes right now, over his mind, over his heart. And all he knows is that all he can do is rest in humility before God in the dust because he doesn't know what else to do. And his friends are falsely accusing him. Verse A, before I go to the panel, verse A, Elipha says to Job, Have you heard? Have you heard the secret of God? Do you restrain wisdom to yourself? Christians, is this not how so many people speak to us when we're going through a trying time? When we don't understand the situation that prevails. In this comment, in this question, would deny Job access to divine counsel. And he would insist that wisdom is communal and static and never discovered through affliction. He is saying, Job, you if you had subscribed to the formula for true wealth and health, then you would understand these things. You would understand that the reason why you're going through what you're going through is because you have fallen out of favor with the Lord. Have you heard the secret of God? He challenges Job. Who told you God's secrets? Did he tell you? And do you restrain wisdom to yourself? Are you the one who has cornered the market on truth? In saying these things, Eliphaz leaves no room for God's freedom to teach Job anything through his trials or for revelation to deepen his understanding beyond the tradition of men. Eliphaz and his friends, these are men, these are men of strict orthodoxy. These are men who are speakers of tradition. These are men who always want to appeal to the ancient or the primordial times. The ancient times. This is what they appeal to. They have no idea of the significance and the importance that there is in trying to understand what a person is actually feeling. There is a reason why we have feelings. They become sort of like triggers to help us understand that how we're supposed to see things in an anthropomorphic standpoint, meaning that God looks at us and he communicates things about himself to us through our emotions or through our passions. And they are meant to teach us something about not only ourselves, but they are also meant to teach us something about the Lord God Himself. And Eliphaz and his friends, they leave no room for Joe to be possibly being grown to another level by God through the afflictions that have been imposed upon him. It doesn't enter into their understanding that there is another way of receiving true godly understanding through means that are not consistent with the human tradition and the human experience. Most of us believe and assume that when we are going through a hard time, it is the result of errors, mistakes, and yes, even sin that takes place on our part. And what we are learning in Job is that that is not always the case. And when it comes to the Lord Jesus Christ and those of us who trust in him as our Savior, we understand that every hardship is intended to be a means whereby we grow in our dependence upon the Lord God and see his glory to a greater degree than we did prior to the affliction when we were enduring our prosperous times. Christians, you need to understand your true enemy is worldly success. That is your enemy. Worldly prosperity, worldly success, um uh prosperity and success. Worldliness, gains in the world, these are your bigger snares. Your afflictions draw you closer to the Lord, whereas your worldly success takes you away from him. This is why the Lord Jesus Christ spoke so much against the rich. People who are rich are distracted by the things that are needed in order to obtain riches. And those distractions, once having riches, become what it takes to maintain it. But the true Christian soul advances in spiritual things when they undergo the afflictions that have been laid upon them by Christ, because those are the things that draw you closer to the Lord. We don't ask for afflictions, we don't seek affliction out. Asking for affliction in our prayers is not on the menu for us. But we do know that when it does come, we are expected to smart under the divine ride, rod of the Most High. Because that is what makes us better soldiers for Christ, better and more effective uh servants for our Lord and Savior. And this is what will end up being that those very things that grant us that closeness to Christ. It purges us of the impurities in our souls that would distract us and make us imperfect. And we are in a process of sanctification, striving to ultimate and final perfection in glory. And that is what we will do. And we must endure in these things. So that means that whenever we are overcome with affliction, persecution, and tribulation, we are expected to look to the most high. Because usually these things leave us only with one thing to do, and that is to look to the Lord. That is to look to the Lord. Elipha says, Have you heard the secret of God? Do you restrain wisdom to yourself? Are you the only one that has wisdom? Did God uh is God only speaking to you? This is what this is how people talk. When they don't like what you have to say. Particularly if you're telling the truth. If they can't reason it and rationalize it in their own minds, they will talk to you as though you think you know it all. This is what these guys are telling Job. Job was telling the truth. We read it all up to this point. He hasn't lied once. Everything he said, he told the truth, and everything he said was properly applied. Everything. So what do they say? Job talks about God's sovereignty over all things. The deceived, the deceiver, when you live, how long you live, your sin. He ties up into a bag and he sows it so that it cannot be have any influence over you anymore. All these things Job talks about, they're true. He talks about the atonement, he talks about resurrection. He talks about all these things. And his friends who are supposed to be believers and to know the truth, like he does, what do they say? They're calling him a know-it-all. You act as though Job, as though God is only talking to you, and if you cornered the market on wisdom all to yourself. We're they're like saying, we're all stupid, Job, and you're the smart one. All of us are wrong. The consensus is wrong. But we're all supposed to take your word that you're true. And Christians, I'll tell you this. This also adds to Job's suffering. It also adds to his suffering. I'm gonna tell you something. Sometimes being right is another layer of the affliction that will oppress you. Sometimes being right, often being right can be the grounds of added and undue oppression, especially by those who claim to be your brothers and sisters in Christ. You need to understand that. One of the greatest penalties that the world will ever put you in, and when I mean world, I'm including those unbelieving Christians. When they don't like what you have to say, when it's truth to you, you will find it oppressive. When you're trying to explain the tri-une nature of God and people refuse to accept it, how does that feel? Think about it. The closer you are to the truth, the more repulsive those who claim to be Christian will receive it and they will stop at nothing. Stop at nothing to get you to be quiet. Before I go to verse 9, I want to reach out to those of you, my brothers and sisters, on the panel and get your opening remarks before I head to verse 9. I'll start with Sister Mariah. Your opening thoughts, sister. And good evening.

Panel Reactions And Modern Parallels

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Wow. Very, very deep, heavy stuff. I mean, it is a type of mockery that we do go through when you possess or when you're talking and about the wisdom and the understanding and the knowledge of God, how people say, like, um, you know, oh, is he speaking to you personally, or things of this nature? And it's kind of just like um it's depressing in a way because it's like you don't want to have ears to hear to the simplicity of the things of which it is is what I'm saying. And in fact, yes, he does possess some secret wisdom that they don't know, which is the sovereignty of God, which they have no clue and have no understanding to, you know. So um, you know, I think jokes like, well, uh, in fact, let me help you out a little, you know, but you know, he's so kind and compassionate towards them. Um, and they have not have that in return, as we can see, how condescending they are to the brother.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

Very condescending, very condescending. And uh, you know, you know, and and it's it's it's so interesting because you read these verses and you hear these very same things today. You hear the very same thing, the very same things that are said to Job, we hear it on a regular basis. Oh, you think you know it all. You know, people, we today is crazy. Today, if you are a Christian that has half of an intelligent mind, and you speak and people can't gainsay what you are saying, they actually make an accusation of you being smart. And somehow there became this I there's this somehow there's this idea that intelligence being able to be logical and rational and reasonable when you when you make your case, when they don't get it, but they know it makes sense, but they can't gainsay it, what do they do? They say they make a distinction by saying that you are not speaking spiritually. Somehow there's this idea that there's a there's a there's that the Holy Spirit is exclusive of manipulating intellect. That is the very thing that the Holy Spirit uses to help you to gain an understanding through the word of God if you apply yourself and discipline yourself into understanding these truths. People will penalize you for being smart. They will penalize you for having a thoroughgoing understanding of the truth. And they will make they will make it seem to you as though having a brain is in contradistinction to being spiritual. Somehow, if you if you express yourself in an intellectual lay way, they are saying they will say that you're not being spiritual. Remember what they told Paul? Your great learning has made you mad. Remember that? Your great learning has made you mad. This is what the world does. They can't argue what you're saying. So they tell you you're insane, they tell you you're insane. Because it rubs them the wrong way, but they can't speak against it. And so this is what happens, Sister Candy. Opening remarks, and good evening.

When Knowledge Lacks Compassion

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Hey, hey, I like what you just said because as soon as you said it, it reminds me of um when um when Paul talks about speaking in the tongues, and if we speak in front of people and they don't understand what we're saying, they say we're mad. So not only was he speaking in another language, but at the same time, Joke's speaking and they don't understand it. And even when we do it, people think we're we're traits, we're mad. Like I think that's ironic. When you said that, that was what came to my mind. Right. Even though it's not about the language, it's it's but it is, it is, but it's not of God, like what he tells us. They won't understand because they are not of him. That's right. The world will not understand it. The world's wisdom is foolish to God, but God's wisdom is foolish to the world. Amen, Sister. I love it.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

Amen. Sister Meg. Good evening, sister.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

Hi.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Now, I just I I can relate to that so much, you know. Like, you know, recently there was an episode where somebody will go as far as telling you you're not saved.

unknown 28:33

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Especially, especially in today's world. And trust me, me and Pat have been through the ringer, but um when you stand on truth, get ready. Yeah, because it is coming, and you will be called all kinds of names. People will make jokes about you. I mean, there's a joke about me flying on a cloud because they I oppose the pre-trib rapture, and they laugh at it. But what's what's really sad is it brings me to a verse in Romans 122, and it says, claiming to be wise, they became fools.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

And you see it a lot, and it's and and what's even sadder is it's it's an outright denial of the truth of God's word. Right. It's it's they would rat people would rather have their ego and what they know and the pride that is boiling inside of them than to surrender to the truth of God's word and get to know him for who he is. Because in John 17, 3 it says, and this is eternal life, that they may know you, the one true God in Jesus Christ, in whom you have sent. And man, brother, I'm telling you, that is it's so true. And so I just want to just open up and say, you know, get ready, because you're not gonna be the most popular person in the room. In fact, you're gonna be the butt of jokes, you're going to be ridiculed. But at the end of the day, our job is to make sure that when we're speaking on God's word, that it's precise, it's truth, and whatever comes with that, let it be. Amen. And I know I do. I told them that I'm making a bank account that to fly them out to Israel when they come so they can go get their heads chopped off because get ready for it.

SPEAKER_05 30:37

That's terrible. Brother Pat, opening remarks, brother, and good evening.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Good evening. This study, you're already cutting me the heart to the heart, and we're just getting started, man. Um, these three friends. Let me just say something about them really quick. Um, none of them seem like dummies to me. If I look at them, there's none of them like, oh, maybe he was hit on the head as a kid. Maybe he's just uh a dumb person. They come from three slightly different worldviews, they're their own people and they see things differently, but I see them as intelligent. If you listen to the words, the they're well thought out, learned people. They are, but they're spiritually compromised. And it it to me, it really warns of the fact that if your inside is not right, there's you are compromised at the innermost parts, and you will not operate properly as a man of God. If you have arrogance, pride, or envy, your operating system, like a computer, is is it has corrupt data at the innermost point. And you might have all these abilities, you might have the fastest processor, you know, you get the the latest computer. But if if you have a corrupt programming on the inside, it's gonna come to the wrong results. You won't produce godly results. And that's what I see that that's what's going on with these friends, but it's something we should watch out for ourselves. I I I really feel that way, man. It's it's really convicting me that we have to be really careful about falling into the same traps that these three friends fell into.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

That's right, brother. That's right. I mean, and you you said it, and it's true. And this is this is something that we all really need to understand. These men are smart men. By all intents and purposes, from outwardly, from the outward perspective, you would see them as believers. Smart believers, intelligent, doctrine, indoctrinated with the with the truth. Their issue is not about having the truth, their issue is about how to apply it and how to use it. And they don't have, like Brother Jeffrey said, smart, but not they're not wise. They don't know how to wield this truth. The objectivity that they had wasn't to see what I can do to build my brother up. This doesn't appear to be in their intent, their motives don't seem to be uh proper. And so it shows itself this way. They are cold, they are hard, you know, they are unyielding. There's no there's no indication of anything pliable in the way that they deal with people. They don't know how to to um help a person get through a very trying time. They are more concerned with exerting or eliciting from Job the admission that they are right when they are in fact wrong. And this is what I talked about last night. When you talk about the word of God, any any doctrine in the Bible, when you read a verse of scripture, there is only one truth in that passage. There's only one truth, and you will have two people who will come with two different interpretations. So there's no neutrality in understanding the the truth or what knowing what the right interpretation is, and yet both people, two different interpretations, both will tell you that they are well read in the scriptures, both will tell you that they are led by the Holy Spirit, both will tell you how long they've been Christians. And yet there's two different interpretations. This is why it's so annoying to me, anyway, when I hear people say talking appeal to those things. That means nothing. Because when you consider the fact, like Job's friends, that you can actually cite any any any Christian can cite a biblical truth or biblical verse. The issue is how do you use it? How do you use it? This is what it comes down to, brother Jeffrey. Good evening. And uh, what are your thoughts for tonight? Opening thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Okay, I'm here. Sorry, I had to step into the laundry room and start the dryer.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

That's all right.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Job's friends are once again showing us how much knowledge they have and how bankrupt of wisdom, as you just mentioned a moment ago. Uh, in verse 8, they say, Do you listen in on God's counsel? Do you have a monopoly on wisdom?

SPEAKER_04 35:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Job, uh uh Jonathan, if I'm Job, uh that's almost fighting words to me. I mean, they are uh uh just pushing Job right to the edge. Here's the thing: have they gone through what Job is going through now? Uh no. Have they been, have they lost everything? No. Have they had their wives tell them, I just curse God and die? No. Lose their family, their wealth, everything they have. Are they covered in boils? No. And yet they have, again, as you've pointed out so rightly, Jonathan, zero compassion. They still think that he's up to his eyeballs in sin. I mean, they may be smart as far as as their their thinking, doctrine is concerned, but again, as far as using it correctly, Jonathan, they're dumber than dirt. Excuse my uh description, but that's accurate. And so again, Job is not only wrestling with the situation, brother, he's having to deal with, as we've caused, I've identified him as the three stooges of friends trying to who are coming to help him that aren't helping him at all. And to me, it's almost to the point now that his three friends are a bigger problem than just the affliction that he's dealing with and having lost everything. Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

So I just it's gonna be interesting as we continue to move forward. What all uh is gonna happen? We know a good portion of what's gonna happen, but it's gonna see how interesting how Job defends himself and how God will defend himself. And good evening, everybody. We got a great looking panel again here tonight. It's good to see you all. And today I got Buzz, man. All that yucky hair on top of my head is gone, so I feel a whole lot better. Anyway, you look good too, brother. All right, that's it. Love you all.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

All right, brother. Sister Lisa, your opening remarks, and good evening, sister.

SPEAKER_04 37:36

Good evening, Jeffrey. You're so funny. Um, you know, the thought that came to mind is you know, a couple of things that may