(Job 15:7-13) "Were You The First Man Born" Part 3/4

What if the most faithful thing you can say to God sounds raw, unfinished, and unpolished? We open the door to Job’s ash heap and find a hard, hopeful truth: honest lament is not rebellion. It’s the sound of trust when answers feel out of reach. From there, we draw a straight line to today’s church—where some try to control consciences, claim special authority, or treat emotion as a threat. We push back, anchoring everything in the sufficiency of Scripture and the conviction that the Bible in your hands is the same Bible in the pulpit.

Together, we walk through the misreadings of Eliphaz and friends, who confuse grief with defiance and composure with holiness. We talk about the danger of dishonest silence—the pious hush that keeps us from praying when we most need to—and we offer a better path: speak to God as you are, with a sincere heart that refuses to fake it. We also get practical about church life. Correction is not a performance; it’s a shared commitment to truth. Real unity survives scrutiny. It does not demand silence to protect egos.

Then we widen the lens. We sit with the unsettling power of God’s silence and how it reveals what words often hide. We trace the arc from the ascension to Acts and early persecution, and we reflect on why Scripture remembers saints not for their wealth or status but for victories in suffering. The throughline is simple and strong: revelation is closed, the Word is enough, and God meets honest people who bring him their real selves.

If this conversation strengthens your courage to pray honestly, to welcome correction, and to hold to Scripture when God seems quiet, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review telling us where silence has shaped your faith.

Transcript

Miracles, Revelation, And Authority

SPEAKER_04 0:00

You know, establishing the new covenant. And the one thing that was unique about that period and the fact that the tongues and stuff was happening and the miracles were happening is because the word of God wasn't yet wasn't yet the material, so to speak, if I could put it that way, the material hadn't yet been complete. And it wouldn't be until after Christ ascended on high. And so the miracles in the book of Acts, these things were like jumper cables for the new administration of God's working in his church. The new covenant. But people want to make it something, some kind of fantasy story, and I understand why they do it, but it's just wrong. It's just wrong. There is no more revelation that God intends to give outside of anything that is written in the Word of God. There are no more divinely appointed apostles and prophets by God to carry on works of ministry that involves imparting to these people knowledge that goes outside of the Word of God. The very same word that you're reading, that Bible that you have in your hand right now, is the same exact thing that any man in a pulpit has. There is nothing in the Word of God that you can't learn like they can learn. And when you teach it, it has no less of an impact if they're teaching it or if you're teaching it or talking about it or talking to witnessing to some lost soul about it. You have a bunch of men that want to try to usurp authority over the souls of men and garner the attention for themselves to build themselves up and to make merchandise of the church of Christ, God's church. This is what they want to do. Verse 12. Why does your heart carry you away? And why do your eyes wink at? And what do your eyes wink at? So Job's the way he expresses himself emotionally, these things are interpreted in their minds, in his mind, Eliphaz, that is, as rebellion. They see him as they see Job expressing himself in this emotional way, in this mournful, afflicted way. They somehow see this as rebellion. Why didn't an inner rebellion? See, here again, you have men trying to play the Holy Spirit for other people. He says to Job, why, listen, listen what he says. Why does your heart carry you away? What happens when you when people tell you about what's in your heart? Amen. It is. But you know, these guys want to tell you, I know your heart, Joe. You don't know your heart, but I know it. Why does your heart carry your way? Now they pretend to know what's in his own heart, what's in his heart. Ellie Foz and his friends, Bildad and Zophar, and we'll see Ellie who when he pops up. They distrust emotion. They have no room for anybody to have to exhibit passion. They have no room for it. In their mind, it distorts judgment. In their mind, it distorts discernment. They're just telling Job, you're just an emotional creature, and you you need to just appeal to the truth, and you can't have feelings, Job. This is not what should drive the believer. You know, yet scripture frequently portrays godly grief as sincere worship. We see it throughout. When you go back and you you look at, when you look at all these great works that all these great people of the Bible did, notice in Hebrews, in that great catalog of faith, as we call it, you will notice that what is uh spoken about about them were their triumphs over afflictions and battles and and and hard-fought Christian life living. There was no nothing speaking in there about how wealthy they were, how long they lived, how many children they have. You don't hear, like, by faith they acquired many mansions, by faith they had multitudes of children. By faith, they built all these other cities and regions. By faith, they created canals. You don't you don't hear that. By faith, they built these businesses, by faith they had all these sheep in the land. By faith, they held these great positions. This is not what you hear. Go back and look at it. It talks about their triumphs over affliction, trials, persecution, tribulation. Because it is it is in those things where God is rendered most illustrious in the life of the believer, because when they trust him in all those things, they glorify him more so, more magnanimously, because of how deep the darkness and the oppression of affliction and trial and tribulation was. And this was the time where they depended on the Lord the absolute most. It's when they leaned on him the most. And so here they're pretending Eliphaz is pretending to know Job's heart. I know your heart, Job. And why are you letting your heart carry you away? Why are you letting your heart lead you in a wrong path by your feelings? And so Eliphaz wants Job to exhibit a particular type of outward composure, and that would assume, then he would assume that Job was exhibiting some kind of spiritual piety. He's saying, I want to see something on the outside. Verse 13, Elipha says, Though you turn your spirit against God, listen to what he's saying. Listen to what he's saying. Just these people, this is and and and I laugh, I chuckle because we hear it the same today. He says, He says, Uh, why does your heart wink at these things and whatnot? Then he says, that you turn your spirit against God and let such words go out of your mouth. How are you, how are he says, How are you talking like this? And in so doing, you are speaking against God. He is misreading Job's complaints as hostility against God. But we need to understand that sincerity when we approach God is what is acceptable to God. A sincere heart. There is nothing wrong with expressing your anguish, your concern. There's nothing wrong with filling your mouth with arguments and making your case before God. He wants us to become to him with sincerity of heart, not with this contrived composure so that we can put on the show for men. We can't misread complaints as hostility. Job's complaints were godly complaints, sincere complaints, because there was no answers that were on earth that could assuage his afflictions or accommodate his fears. And his fears were primarily or primarily in that he lost, in his mind, he lost communication with God. There was something in his relationship to God that had been severed in his mind, even though we know it never was. But in Job's mind and heart, there was he was missing something. He didn't have that joy that he once had. He didn't have it. Eliphaz can't distinguish between challenging God and clinging to God amid confusion and trials. He can't separate these things. None of his friends can. He just can't. And this speaks to a theology that fears honest speech more than dishonest silence. That's what this speaks to. And so sometimes we need to understand that we we can say nothing. I mean, many times people go through trials and they and they will tell you how they can't pray. They can't read the scripture. This is what I mean by a dishonest silence. It is better to express yourself with the pure sincerity of heart exactly how you feel. There are things that you can say to God that you can't say to men. There's a way that you can say things to God that you can't say to men. But God will accept an honest, an honest person when they reach out to him. But one of the most horrible things that can take you down is having this dishonest silence. And here's what it means. Here's what I mean. This is the mentality of it. You may frame it in different words, but you'll get what I'm saying. There are some people that will say, I'm I am in so much sin, I can't dare approach God. Can't dare do it. He's too holy. I can't go to him right now feeling like this. Dishonest silence, feigned humility, false piety, self-deception. There is no better time than to go to the Lord when you are overburdened with the weight of affliction that is bearing down upon your shoulders. Look what he says in verse 14. Well, let me stop for a second. Let me let you guys break in here a little bit and get your get your thoughts. Sister Candy, what are your thoughts right now, sister? What do you think so far? All right. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Sir Candy.

Dishonest Silence And Sincere Prayer

SPEAKER_05 11:51

What I think, I think everything that's everyone's saying, especially what you're saying about how we go to God and talk, how do we go to Jesus? Because we're not just servants, we're friends. Who better of a friend to have? Yes, we, you know, he tells us, we're told that no better friend than one who laid down your life for him, for you, right? But at the same time, when you when you know he's the only one that can help you, truly help you, when you know he's the only one you can truly depend on. And I like how you've been stressing that dependency because and all it listen, without God, man, we have nothing. We are nothing, it is nothing, right? He is everything, and I don't just say that, like it's so true, like in the innermost parts of me. That is all I have. And I'm just saying, man, forget picking up a phone and calling your friend. That should be the one you you call on, and you ain't gotta pick nothing up, you just look up, right? Look up and speak. It doesn't matter how it comes out, God knows your heart. And I don't say that like how people say, Well, God knows my heart, so if I do this and I do that, God knows my heart. That's not what I'm saying. He knows your heart, so he knows what's the word I want to use. Um sincerity, he knows the sincerity that we come to him in. He knows our hearts because he knows how we feel about whatever it is that we speak to him about. Yeah, people are gonna call us crazy because it looks like we're talking to the air. But you know what? I'll be crazy all day, every day. They didn't give me crazy K the name for no reason.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

You're right there, sister. Right there, right there with you on that one.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

Our best friend, man. That is our best friend. He walks with us, he talks with us, he calls us his own. He we're the ones that run away from him. He don't run away from us. That's right. We're the ones that leave him standing back there when we should have stayed back there with him.

SPEAKER_04 14:09

Amen, sister. Good words, amen. Brother Path, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

I found what uh Sister can be extremely profound because um she's right. These people are supposed to be friends, like um, when you're in times of trouble and you need some help, you're looking for the cavalry to come, right? Reinforcements. They're supposed to be in you're supposed to be carrying the same flag, wearing the same uniform, and uh when you see them coming, your heart is filled with joy because you know that help is on the way, right? She's right that um you know in Christ we we and that's the type of relationship that we could actually have amongst believers as well. They're supposed to be on our side. It reminds me, Jonathan, uh an example of of this where you have to choose your friends correctly. Um in uh come prior to AD 70, when when the Romans uh sacked Jerusalem, Jerusalem knew that they were gonna be eventually be sacked because Romans were surrounding the city, right? And so they called out for help and they called for the assistance of the Edomites. It ended up being a very bad decision because you don't pick your friends right. And what do you think those Edomites did once they got inside those city walls? They they created destruction and havoc and nothing but trouble for for the Jews who were inside that those city walls, and that's what these friends are doing, right? They they're supposed to be friends, but they they sure are acting. It let me just say this, Jonathan. Isn't it interesting how a Christian can actually do the work of the devil? How easily, by not getting certain things right, you can actually be working on the other side and against God.

Friends, Correction, And Church Unity

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Correct. It's so true, it's so true, and there are so many who do, and and and and and and you will have even other Christians that will know that they're working against the truth, but they will tell you when you speak out against it, that you're disrupting the unity in the church. See, I don't, I, you know, there are a lot of people that that will try to get you to be silenced by that. To be silenced by that. You can't let that happen. We cannot let that happen. We cannot let people get away with tea with spreading things that are contrary to the scriptures and and let it go for the sake of unity. You know, and and so we have to stand on truth objectively, purely objectively. And so, now listen, we can sit here for the next year saying something, talking about you know, talking about the the doctrines of grace and talking about the truths that we know in the scriptures. But if you hear me say something crazy somewhere down the line, don't let me get away with it. Check me. And if it's crazy enough, if it's crazy enough, reject me. We need to stand on truth because it's God's word, period. And that's what we need to be uh subscribing to and all our things, and we don't let people get away with nothing. This is what Christian warfare is all about. Upholding that banner of truth, and we cannot let it go. I think it's what is it? I think it's Jehovah Nisi, N-I-S-I. Jehovah, your banner. We need to uphold that banner. Sister Mariah, go ahead. And then Jeffrey.

SPEAKER_07 18:31

Yeah, I had something to say earlier, but um I I forgot that I even put the hand comment in there before I typed what I typed. Um, but I think it's it's ironic that he can't see that Job is saying the same exact thing that he is saying in a way when he is saying, um, well, we're we're gonna get to that, right? What is man that he could be pure? Job said something similar in in 14, saying, who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean thing? So it's kind of it's kind of strange that he can't even hear his friend because he's so bent on exposing him for whatever it is. Um, and it's kind of like those of us who understand grace and those of the people who want to work their way in and show God that they're just this mighty person when it's not possible. If it was possible that we can be just pure and clean without the help of God, then you know, what did Christ come for? What did we have to look for that all of these old testament saints and prophets were uh speaking about in the future? You know, Moses looked instead of holding on to the treasures and the the the wealth. The Pharaoh, he looked forward to Christ and what Christ had to offer. So I just think that it's ironic that he's saying what Job has already said, yet he himself does not understand what it what it is that he's saying.

Echoes Of Job’s Theology And Grace

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Right. Absolutely. And it's funny, because like you quoted that verse, you remember that where Job did say that bringing the unclean out of the unclean, you know, bringing the clean out of the unclean, how that can happen. And the fact that that that connection is not made here, because you would think that this would be uh something that might not come up so that they wouldn't be showing themselves as being consistent with Job. You know, it's interesting that that that that um that that's the case. Uh brother Jeffrey, go ahead. And then Candy.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Jonathan, a while ago we were talking about uh us being told or identified as being crazy for uh speaking the truth and everything. Jonathan, I think it's important for us to remember that when we speak truth, some, not all, but some of the people that hear it, deep down in their heart, they know that we are speaking truth, but it terrifies them. They can't deal with it. And this is why, or part of the reason why they lash out at us and why we're going to be lashed out at. They can't deal with the the truth that's being spoken to them. And that's why what we as God's children have to do, Jonathan, is to embrace truth anyway. Amen. Okay, and and keep embracing truth and and know that that is the place for us to be forever and always, because no matter what, when we speak truth and live truth, he's living through us. He will protect us.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Amen, brother. Uh, Sister Candy, you have some those you wanted to add.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

Yeah, it was just that uh I think I topped it in there. Um, where Jesus he tells us, he tells us, and it's anyone that's not against you is for you. And it's obvious what we're seeing here is how people that we think is with us, how easily they can be against us. If that may, I mean, I don't I see it. I know I'm pretty sure y'all see what I'm talking about.

Truth, Backlash, And Courage

SPEAKER_04 22:35

Yeah, it's very true. I mean, you know, you it it's like you could be, you know, it's just it's just like here, right? You know, you could you could have a fellowship, you could be in a church for 10 or 12 years, 10, 15 years, whatever it's been. And your pastor one day, he might say, in 10 years, something that just didn't seem right. And then there are some people who'd be like, oh my gosh, end of the world. Can't I gotta leave the church now, can't be here. Now, it could be for a good reason, depending on what it is. But listen, we all sometimes get it wrong. We we just do. Sometimes we get it wrong. You know, but we should we we are striving to always get it right. And and when you do, the the the one benefit to having a group or body of people that you get to fellowship with and is that we get to check each other, and that's the whole idea. But there's a spirit in a person that, you know, like like you know, some people believe they have the spirit of correction, you know, they got the spirit of rebuking. That's my job. My calling is to rebuke. But, you know, I think that one of the callings that we sometimes overlook is the calling to be able and willing to be corrected. That is a very humbling position to be in. You have to be willing to be corrected. I will take it on the chin. I will take it. We all should take it. You have to be able to, and that is to me a serious gift because what it does is it humbles the person into a place where they're saying, I just want to be right with God. I want to have his word right.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

If I could tie me in here, you care?

SPEAKER_04 24:29

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

It's like kind of like construct constructive criticism, people call it. You know, people get mad when people do it, but why get mad when if you if only take into consideration what someone's saying? Right. And weigh and weigh it out, you know what I'm saying? Seek it, see see if it does, see if you can use it to your benefit, so to say. You know what I'm saying? That's right. You're right, correction, constructive criticism is what I guess the world, it's what I grew up, and everybody said. So, but yeah, considerations what these guys are lacking with Job, and what a lot of people in this world lack when it comes to people speaking truth, too.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Yep. Amen, sister, amen. Sister Megan, then Tyson.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

What's very interesting is like what I'm learning here is that when Job, when when Job's first when Job's friends first came, there was silence.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Yes.

Willingness To Be Corrected

SPEAKER_00 25:32

And the time before and after that, there was no more silence. But the one that should have spoken first, which is the Lord God Almighty, Almighty, was side is has been silenced for 34 chapters. And so many times in our journey, we wonder, God, why aren't you talking to me right now? God, why aren't you moving as you should be moving? But as we're learning, his silence in 34 chapters is revealing the heart of men. It's exactly what it's doing. He's so, he's so long-suffering that he we're we're hearing and seeing all this stuff. And I just want to read something in verse 17. It says, I will tell you, hear me. What I have seen, I will declare. And that just got me to thinking even further. What the Lord has seen through all of this, when he speaks, he's going to declare it all. He's gonna say every single thing and put every single person in their place. And people's hearts have been revealed through this book. And although some of it may have been sound theology, the heart of the matter is where Job's friends were. I don't, I it's it's beyond me to see how we see Ellie Faz speaking, we see Bill Dad speaking, and they're present when they're speaking. And nobody is learning anything through this entire phase. It's more or less like we were silent. Now I want to get out what I wanted to say. I hear you, but guess what? I'm gonna, we're gonna continue to dogpile Job and have no perception of what's even going on.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

You make a good point.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

That's insane.

The Power And Purpose Of Silence

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah, you're making a good point because and it, you know, that's something that I didn't think about, but uh in this in this situation is the silence of God. I mean, there's a whole message here on just his silence alone. And uh that's why I like what you said. Um, because it teaches us something also about the significance of silence. Because you know, because I'm sure that every one of you have you like I have I have a a business relationship where a person that I know, I'll give you an example. I had to call the other day. I had to call the other day, and you know how it is, you know, every one of us has somebody, a friend or business partner or whatever, somebody that you call, and as soon as you pick up on, as soon as you pick up the phone, they start telling immediately telling you about what's going on in their life. Well, I mean, and they will just go on and on and on and and not even consider the fact that or that you're the one who called. You had something you wanted to express. And and they will just talk and talk and talk and talk. And this would happen to me a couple days ago, and it went on for an hour because I actually took notice of it. Because you know, you have your little timer on your phone, and and she went like a full hour before I got to address why I was calling. You know, first thing she has on the phone, guess what happened to me? And it was like, oh my god. Then I went through the whole thing. The whole, the whole thing, and I just had I was forced to be silent. Now, in this context of what like Meg is talking about, something I'm seeing is that even in Christian circles, especially so, when you're having a discussion about godly things, people cannot let people cannot let any silence, any space of silence go unfilled. People, you if you if you if you and I I I I leveled this challenge to all of you guys about a week or so or a couple of weeks ago, maybe, and I was just saying, when you get into a big conversation with somebody about the word of God, somebody who's combative, and somebody who's who's really, you know, you know, likes to do all the talking, let them talk. You'll be you'll be amazed at the outcome if you just say nothing until they're absolutely done. And you might get them to breathe for a second and say something like, What do you think about that or whatever? And the minute you start talking, they steamroll over you again and they go on multiplying the time. People don't like to let they can't let empty space go without being filled. People have to fill in the space. But God doesn't. He let like makes sense, he he just let these guys talk, including Job. He just let them go. He just let them go. And what did it do? Like the sister said, it exposes what's in the hearts of all these men. They just start blurting things out. They start butchering each other. They, you know, with they start weaponizing the word of God. They do these things, and sometimes silence, silence can be the most profound testimony that there is. It really can be. Sister Tyson and then Lisa.

SPEAKER_06 31:15

Yeah, uh, as I'm going through it, it's so interesting watching, you know, them as human beings, mirror human beings, try to figure it out. And I've been studying in Daniel 9, and I can't help but think that this shows us the proper plea for mercy. Uh in Daniel 9, he's praying for his people. Um, and he just says, you know, God, your righteousness, not because of ours, but have mercy because of your righteousness. And in Job's circumstance, it would have, it should have been the same thing, you know, not them trying to figure out what Job did wrong, but just to understand that it's the choice of God. It's it's the righteousness of God, right? That is covering, that is putting that hedge that is, you know, um sovereign to all of it. And so it was it's just interesting comparing Daniel's plea for mercy and you know, Job's friend's plea for mercy. It's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

Amen, sister. Uh Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Well, I was just, I think what Meg said um just a moment ago about God's silence, that really hid it for me because if you think about it, um when God is silent, um, as she said, it reveals the hearts of men. How many people turn away from God during their trials? And, you know, think about that gentleman that was in the live, I don't, you know, a couple lives ago, who was angry, who who blamed God, who couldn't understand certain things. And these are the things that are revealed um, you know, their true feelings. And I I couldn't help but think, when all of when things go, things, we know how things are going in this world today. And there are so many people that profess the name of God, and when it really starts going down and they're praying, and they don't hear the answer they want, or they're, you know, or God is just silent altogether. They can't feel him, they can't hear. What I mean, they're going to fall, they're going to fall away. And this is a great lesson for us to remember that God is silent and He's He's just observing what will you do with your pain right now? What are you gonna do with the pain? Are you gonna lean into me? Or are you gonna turn away from me? What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_06 33:51

Right.

Mercy, Sovereignty, And Daniel 9

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Um man, that was just I mean, that that's a huge lesson for us all. Seriously. I know we've all heard that you know, the teacher is always silent during the test. But think about that. This this time span in Job's in in Job's situation must have seemed like forever. And man, and and we gotta do what he did, or you know, just lean in. And you know, um that was a great, great word, Meg, by the way. Thank you for that. That was good.

God’s Silence As A Heart Revealer

SPEAKER_04 34:25

No, that was good. That was really good. You know, and when you know, you know, and when you and when you think about it, when you think about it, the the the greatest event to take place in human history was when Christ came and when he died on the cross for his people. So you had this this monumental savior coming here to do this and perform this monumental work and did do it. And it was the greatest joy to ever happen to God's church was to have their you know, our savior come and reveal himself to us and to speak to man. And then he ascends on high, and right after he does, the church starts, comes under attack. And Sister Meg, you saw some of my notes. I talked to you about that today, or wrote to you, uh, Meg and Sister Barbara, if you're in the comments. But and what I was pointing out is how after Christ left, when he ascended, those those following years that preceded, this is also good for those of you like Sister Tyson, you're studying Daniel 9, because you know, you know, people we've been discussing, I've been discussing with a few people the the remaining three and a half weeks of Daniel 9. But when you look in Acts and you see all those things, how the church began to suffer persecution immediately after the ascension of Christ, keeping in mind that most of that persecution was by the Jews against the Jews. And so, and so this is another one of those reasons why how you under are able to understand that 70th week, you know, the totality of it, because remember, the whole prophecy of Daniel 9, Sister Tyson and Barbara and Meg and everybody else who's interested in that, it was a prophecy about the Jewish people of that time. It was about the end of that economy involved around them. He was told 70 weeks are determined upon who thy people. Thy people. And that people that then existed do not exist today. And so another reason why when you look examine these, you know, what happens in Acts, you begin to understand how that whole thing is even more strengthened. And Meg, when I sent to the when I sent those notes to you, the whole idea was to strengthen the argument that you were making around Stephen. It was to add to that. It was to add to that. And so, and I didn't provide any comments because, like with you and like with Barbara, I was like, because you guys are pretty smart. So it's like, I wanted to send it to you when I