LIVE DISCUSSION: "Man Drinks Iniquity Like Water" (Job 15:14-16), Part 1/4

What happens when a true doctrine is used the wrong way? We dive into Job 15:14–16 and wrestle with Eliphaz’s stark claims about human sinfulness, the purity of God, and why no one “born of a woman” can declare themselves righteous. The passage is theologically rich—touching on total depravity, moral inability, and the inevitability of sin—yet the conversation shows how truth can wound when it’s misapplied to a suffering friend.

Together we unpack the universal scope of “What is man” and the piercing image of “drinking iniquity like water.” If even the heavens are not clean in God’s sight, human self-approval crumbles. We trace how this standard exposes a deeper problem than bad behavior: a fallen nature that cannot produce righteousness. That’s where grace becomes more than comfort language; it’s the only way anyone can stand. We talk candidly about why salvation requires an external initiative from God, how faith is awakened rather than engineered, and why Christ deals not only with our actions but with our nature at the cross.

Along the way, we also challenge the subtle errors of Job’s friends—equating consensus and age with truth, calling accusation “consolation,” and reading suffering as proof of secret sin. Our goal isn’t to soften Scripture but to apply it wisely: to hold firm to God’s holiness while extending patience to the afflicted. If you’ve ever wondered whether doctrine can be both sharp and healing, this conversation offers a map for conviction and compassion to coexist.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves the book of Job, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway so we can keep these deep dives coming.

Transcript

Setting The Stage In Job 15

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Christian. How are you doing tonight?

Eliphaz’s Accusations And Consensus Appeal

Elders, Authority, And Misplaced Confidence

SPEAKER_04 0:17

Hope all's well. We're going to continue our exposition on the book of Job. Currently we are in Job chapter 15. Job chapter 15. And last we spoke, Eliphaz here in this chapter is speaking in a very much condescending way to Job, who's supposed to be his brother in the Lord. But Job, but Eliphaz and his friends are have not been very compassionate when it comes to bringing comfort to Job. In fact, they've shown him no comfort or compassion whatsoever. And when we last left off in verses 12 and 13, Eliphaz asked Job, Why does your heart carry you away? And what do your eyes wink at? That you would turn your spirit against God and let such words go out of your mouth. So they're accusing Job of saying a lot of empty things. They're accusing Job of speaking about nothing new, nothing that they don't know about. They're basically telling Job that you don't know what you're talking about, and that your whole issue is hypocritical in nature because you won't deal with your the consequences of your sin, which can only start when you admit to having committed something sinful that warrants in their minds um retribution from God. And notice in verse 13, they take they take no shame in accusing Job of turning his spirit against God. And they think that he is turning his spirit against God and letting such words go by letting such words go out of his mouth. In our discussion last night, what we saw over and over again was that these men, or I should say Eliphaz, is speaking to Job in such a way where he considers Job as having actually no idea of what it needs or what is spiritual when it comes to his relationship with God. They appeal to consensus. They tell Job that there's no way that all of us can be on the same page and be wrong, and you be the only one that is right. They believe that truth is established by the numbers of those who hold whatever it is they consider to be the truth. Then they appeal in verse 10 to the gray-headed and aged men, the elders. The assumption is that just because they're old, somehow they have cornered the market on truth. And since the elders of the among them are older than Job's father, that they have more that they can contribute as far as truth is concerned, than what Job can muster up. And so they believe that their words should serve as consolations to Job. In verse 11, it says they asked the question, Eliphaz asked the question, Are the consolations of God small with thee? Is there any secret thing with thee? So what he's saying is this we have the words that are necessary for healing. And our words should be received as the consolations from God. Basically, what they're telling Job is this you should heed what we are saying because we are speaking for God. This is what they're saying. And in verse 13, they conclude by saying, You turn your spirit against God. Now they have him making himself out to be an enemy of God. After all that Job has said up to this point, thus far, is that Job is an enemy of God. God is not his friend. Job, in their mind, is not on the same page with the Lord, but they are. And they attribute no benefit by Job's experience in affliction to be the source whereby God may be teaching Job and even elevating Job to a different plateau in his understanding about God. And this is what we're happening. This is what is happening. Now I'm gonna get into the next verse, verse 14. And today we're gonna deal with three verses and three verses only. Job chapter 15, verses 14 through 16. These are the only three verses that we're gonna deal with today. And so, and I think that it's important because what I try to do is really try to bring some illumination to some very key passages that we're reading and really dig deep into them because they establish a better understanding of all the things that come before it and that come to and that come afterwards. But we're gonna be dealing with a very particular doctrine here. But let me read the verse, the verses first. Job 15, verses 14 through 16. And here's what the word of God says. Eliphaz is talking, and he's speaking to Job. And he says, What is man that he should be clean? And he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous. Familiar language. Behold, he puts no trust in his saints, speaking about God, he puts no trust in his saints. Yes, the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man who drinks iniquity like water? What an amazing few verses here. Let me read it again. Let me read it again without interruption this time. What is man that he should be clean? And he which is born of a woman that he should be righteous. Behold, he puts no trust in his saints. Yes, the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man which drinks iniquity like water. Now, before I go on, I do want to appeal to all of you who are on the panel so far, just five of you, and get your opening remarks before I get into the doctrine at hand and the passage at hand. And let's deal with specifically, let's deal only with what we think the doctrine is talking about and any emphasis you want to put on that. So I'll start with Sister Mariah. What do you think so far? Job 14 or 15 verses 14 through 16.

SPEAKER_05 8:51

Um, very interesting language here. Um, but I find it interesting that it's he's comparing um the iniquity to water, which we need water to survive. If we don't survive, uh or we don't drink water, you know, we can't perish. So I find that very interesting that he's saying that it's something that we daily are intaking or taking part of or doing. Um from my understanding, um in what's being said here. And good afternoon or evening, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Yep. I and I think your understanding is good. I can't wait to elaborate on that when we get to verse 16. Um, brother Rod, anything you want to add as we get started?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Uh I just want to say good evening, everybody. I'm just hopping in here. I'm trying to grab my Bible and everything now and uh get get get locked in with everybody. But um just hello. Um I kind of came in at the end of it, but um That's all right. I uh yeah, I'm just gonna I'm gonna I'll be ready for you if you come back around.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

So no problem. Get your candy, opening remarks.

SPEAKER_06 10:08

When you said that about the the the drinking of iniquity and the water, was drinking iniquity like water, and then when Mariah came in and said what she said, it's like okay, so daily, are you drinking iniquity or are you drinking water? So it's the contrast from the two. It's beautiful how it's contrasting it. And then it I can't remember exactly how he worded it, but it was about even the heavens. What did he say about the heavens? It wasn't even basically worthy. Is that what it kind of said?

SPEAKER_04 10:45

The heavens are not clean in his sight.

SPEAKER_06 10:48

Yeah, yeah. I find that um interesting as well.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

All right.

SPEAKER_06 10:57

That that contrast of the of the water and the iniquity, though. It it's it's like, who are you serving?

unknown 11:02

Right.

SPEAKER_06 11:02

You know, right? Who are you serving? Iniquity or are you serving being served by the living water?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

All right, Sister Lisa, your thoughts.

Are These Comforts From God Or Not

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Okay, good evening, everyone. So that first verse that we're looking at, what is man that he can be pure? Sounds to me like they're they don't know um that we are born in sin and trespass. Um or who or who is born of a woman that he can be righteous? They're saying they can't be, that we're total, I mean, it's this speaks of total depravity to me. Um it's like they're acknowledging that we are born in a state of sin and that God is so holy, even the holy ones in the heavens are not pure in his sight. So how much less or how much more uh would are we who is abominable and corrupt? A man who drinks injustice like water. This means to me, you know, we like Mariah said, we live on water, and man in his natural state is simple. We'll always choose sin. We'll choose injustice in in our original state. Is that's what I'm getting anyway.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Good assessment. Very good. Brother Jeffrey, your opening remark, brother.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Uh good evening, Jonathan, and good evening, panel. Uh Jonathan, as I read this, I uh uh my thought is that uh Job's friends are trying to take his thinking back to very, very basic things about God. Okay, what are mortals that they could be pure? Are those born of women that they could be righteous? If God places no trust in his holy ones, even the heavens are not pure in his eyes. How much less mortals who are vile and corrupt, who drink up evil like water. To me, they're taking him back. Job, this is the very, very basic stuff about who God is and what he uh requires of us. Don't you even get that? That's what I hear them saying. I could be wrong, but that was my first interpretation of this, and I've jotted a note down here in my Bible about it. They're taking Job back to the very, very basis of God and asking him, Job, don't you even understand that? Do you lack understanding even in this basic thing? That's what I see them saying here.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

Right. Well, it's interesting because the first thing that I want to point out here is this, and and so far the answers have been very good. Go ahead, Candy.

SPEAKER_06 13:41

The way his Bible reads that and the way he expressed that, it's like they're saying to Joe, you know this is this is man, no man's good enough. And basically, so who are you, Joe? Who are you to think you didn't do, you're you didn't commit any sin, you didn't do anything to deserve what you're getting? Because as we know, nobody's no, no, not one, not one is good.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Right. That's true.

SPEAKER_06 14:09

And and it's like, um, who so who are you to think you don't deserve what's happening to you? What you know, what did you do to deserve it?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Right.

SPEAKER_06 14:20

To deserve what that deserves the the suffering that he's he's going through, right? That deserves the punishment. I'm gonna say punishment because they're saying he's being punished, but we know it's not punishment, he's suffering.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Right. All right, we'll get into it. So go ahead, Roddy. Go ahead.

Reading Job 15:14–16 Aloud

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah, I just I mean, I typed it in the chat. I guess I was reading it over. I mean, it's just like, and even listening to what you guys are saying, it's just seeming as if like, you know, there's no hope for like the human race in a sense, and like in a like we're we're flawed in a sense, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like like he's like condemning Joe and kind of what Sister Kenny just was saying, like, like who does Joe think he is to you know, even take this stance in this position. So that's kind of what I got out of it really quick.

Panel Reactions To Iniquity Like Water

Total Depravity Stated, Compassion Missing

What Is Man That He Be Clean

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Absolutely. Well, all right, so here's what here's here's what we got, and everybody's had good input, very good input. And uh so the first thing that I want to point out here is that we we know that this is Eli Faz saying these things. And the thing is, and we brought we've talked about this previously, uh in previous previous sessions, where they are saying something. Eli Faz is saying something here that is very true. There's nothing here wrong about what he is saying here. In fact, what he's saying is very is very profound and very doctrinal. Very profound. It really is. It's a it's it's a doctrine that is essentially at the root from which grace is a necessity. There his understanding by making these statements in these three verses, 14 through 16, these are the reasons that salvation, for man to have it, necessitates grace. It is for this reason, these reasons here, that man requires an external impetus to bring him to faith. He can't do it on his own. What Ellie Foz is saying is 100% true. But like we have said, and I'm happy to be repetitive, because when it comes to the word of God, repetition is what we need to rely on to continue to solidify in our understanding what the truth of the word of God is conveying to us. Repetition and frequency is necessary to firmly establish these things in our minds and in our hearts. So, first thing, what he's saying is true. Secondly, the problem is that, as we have said before, is using this, these truths as a weapon to condemn Job. That's what the problem is. How he is handling it, what he is trying to lead to. And and so he is trying to point out to Job, trying to make Job as if he's as if he's speaking to someone who hasn't heard, who doesn't understand these things already. And so it just simply, like Lisa says, it just simply doesn't apply to Job. It is true, it is a it is a biblical truth, it is a true doctrine, it is something that must be believed. But in the case of Job, his problem was not knowing that he is a sinner from birth. Job knows that. In fact, Job is asking God previously to reveal to him what, if any, his sin may be that has warranted this break in the continuity in his relationship with God. So Job is not running or hiding. He's not pretending, he's not being hypocritical, he's appealing to God for understanding so that restoration can be swift and so that some modicum of comfort can be gained throughout all of this. And so the next thing that is plain in these two questions in verse 14 is that the answers are emphatically are emphatic and they are rhetorical. And the question, or I should say, the answer, is found in the questions. What is man that he should be clean? And the answer that that is that demands the the emphatic reply, man is nothing. There is nothing in man that would make him clean. Nothing in man that makes him clean. And then he says, and he which is born of a woman that should be righteous. Also, it demands a negative response. There is nothing or there is no one who is born of a woman that righteousness can be found in. So these things are what these questions uh intimate. These are what these questions and the answer to these questions uh bring out in and elicit. And they assume, and rightly so, that these are the answers. This should be a huge, massive problem for many folks out there who profess to be Christians and do not embrace the doctrine of total depravity or total inability, whatever you want to call it. The fact of the matter is, this is an expose of what that doctrine really is. They asked the question, Elli Faz asks the question, what is man? Who is man? Who are you, man, that you should be clean? And the answer demands, he's nothing. And the response should be that there is nothing within man that should be clean, that is clean. There is nothing in man who is born of a woman that is righteous. And he's taking it back to the garden, basically. Born of a woman. That means any man who is born, because all men are born of a woman. So this means that in the entirety of the whole race, there is no man born of women, meaning of natural human birth. No man born through the natural generation of human birth and procreation. None of them are even born clean. None are even born righteous. They are born sinners. And you know what else? You don't have to teach a child to sin. It comes naturally. That's what they they and they sin because that's what they are by nature. Sin factories. So we see here the text here opening up with this very searching couple of questions. And these questions they pressed very hard into the very nature of fallen humanity. These men are not stupid men, these are smart men. They know the doctrines of grace. Maybe not the grace part, but they absolutely understand the depraved nature of mankind. And this question here that they're asking, it doesn't ask whether or not man thinks himself clean or whether or not others think that he is righteous, that he can be righteous, but whether it is how they are seen before God. So this is not about how man sees men. Men cannot pronounce themselves to be good. Men cannot pronounce themselves to be holy or righteous. They can't do that. This question, these questions here, are all about how God sees them. When we are in God's sight. Certainly, men like to give themselves credit for things. Men like to call themselves good. Men like to create the parameters that justify what they consider to be good. But we are judging man by the wrong standard. The standard of judgment as to our standing when it comes to righteousness, goodness, and holiness has to be God Himself. God Himself. And this question is framed with a universal tone to it, an overtly universal tone. What is man? Notice the question. What is man? He's not talking about a single men, one men. He's not talking about, he's not singling out any group of certain types of men or classifications of men. But when he says, what is man, he is saying, what is mankind? What is mankind? This is universal. So when he make this statement, they're talking about all of humanity, all of mankind, all humans. None of us are righteous. None of us. We are all born wicked from the womb. We are born unclean agents of sinful nature and sinful designs. Not God's design, but Satan's design. So the emphasis here falls upon man's origin, born of a woman, as I said, brought forth in the ordinary course of nature, under the corruption that they have within them and without, that they inherited from their elder parents, Adam and Eve. More importantly, Adam. He's taking it back to the very beginning when he talks about born of a woman. He's going back to the garden. And so this implication is not merely that man commits sin, but that his very condition, his very condition is sinful. You see, man has the tendency to view their standing with God by what they determine their lack of sin in their own life allows them to have a conscience that is clear at the moment. They have moments of fleeting sinful activity. Men see themselves, men believe that when their conscience becomes clean, or when their conscience becomes clear in their own minds, that the situation has passed. God is no longer paying attention. They judge their righteousness and holiness based on how long they have considered themselves to go without sinning. But they don't understand that the judgment of God that has come upon all of mankind when it comes to his wrath has nothing to do, has nothing to do specifically with the individual sin, although that is factored into judgment. But the issue of judgment that warrants the wrath of God has to do with the fact that we are sinners by nature. It's not just about what we do, it's about who we are. And this is what needs to land in the hearts and minds of man. We sin because we are sinners. We sin because we are sinners, and that's what has to be understood. This is what needs to be clear in people's minds, and this is what needs to be communicated by those of us who understand the truth. God must condemn sinful nature at its root, and the root of man's sin is his nature. And so, even when Christ died on the cross for his sheep, he didn't just die to remove the axe. He didn't just put our sinful axe on him and take that into the grave with him. No, he took our very nature with him into that tomb. Our nature was buried. There's a big difference. That he, that we are more than conquerors because we are in him. And we know that if you understand that what he took with him into that tomb was our nature, not just the actions, but the nature from which actions spring up. And all know, all and although there are these resident dying habits that will still remain in us, the effect, because of what Christ has done, is permanent and standing, and we will endure because it is he that enables us to do so, because we know what we see here, that man has nothing in him that warrants righteousness, or it says that what is man that he should be clean. Man is nothing. So that is our nature, that is our condition. Then this warrants, this warrants an external happening, an external event to take place within us in order to ensure that we can have salvation and justification before God. If you start from the standpoint that man is a depraved sinner. Listen, this is what I'm saying. Your understanding, your understanding about salvation, your right understanding of salvation, a proper and right understanding of salvation will start upon your believing what we are talking about right now. If you don't understand what this, these three verses are saying, if you are misunderstanding this, you are going to misunderstand salvation as a whole. You cannot understand salvation aright if you do not understand your depraved state, if you don't understand the sinful nature. You just don't. This is rudimentary. This is the basic thing that man needs to understand. This is the very thing that warrants the desire and need when understood for Christ. For the Lord Jesus Christ. And this should this is the doctrine that should make you fall on your face and make you plead for his intervention to save you. Beg and plead for his mercy. Save me, Lord. I am a sinner. Please save me. I can't save myself. And when you do, and if you are willing and pleased to save me, please keep me so that I never sin against you. That prayer acknowledges that what you're asking for is something you are incapable of doing. But unfortunately, we have men who worship their wills and believe that there is an aspect in salvation whereby they have the ability to cooperate with the Almighty. Well, if man is not clean, and if man who is born from a woman cannot be righteous, there is no possibility in man's ability to cooperate with divinity. That is only an abstract desire and hope on some level, but it has nothing to do with making a connection with the Lord at all. It can't be done. It can't be done. So cleanness, as we see in this first verse here, verse 14 at Job 15, cleanness and righteousness. Both of these are moral qualities that must answer to the purity of God Himself. Absolute must.

SPEAKER_06 33:42

Yeah, that's what came to my mind when he was just speaking about that one.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Absolutely. Brother Jeffrey, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Jonathan, the the point that you just made about the total depravity of man is one of, if maybe not the biggest sticking point or obstacle so many people have in receiving the good news of Jesus Christ is the fact that we have to see that there, of course, as you said, there's no good thing in us. Okay. But so many people are just not willing to accept that. The thought is there's got to be a few good things in me that I don't need for God to me to do. And of course, we know that is not the case. And we we get hung up sometimes, Jonathan. Or people, I should say, get hung up on the fact that God has a perfect standard. He is sinless perfection. Perfection. Exactly. Sinless perfection. That's why he's timeless because he doesn't need to change. He's perfect then, now, and forever. So we have to be transformed to in order to have relationship with that perfection. That's right. There is no good thing.