LIVE DISCUSSION: "The Oneness/Modalism Heresy" Part 1/4

Ever wondered how Scripture can say God is one while revealing Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in living, relational harmony? We take on the challenge head-on, not with philosophy but with clear passages that refuse to be flattened into a single-person performance. At the Jordan River, Jesus stands in the water, the Spirit descends, and the Father speaks from heaven—no costume changes, no echo tricks, just the triune God revealing himself in love and mission.

From there, we walk through John 14 where Jesus promises “another Comforter,” the Spirit of truth whom the Father sends at the Son’s request. The language is unmistakable: three distinct persons acting in perfect unity for our good. We also reach back to Genesis 1:26—“Let us make man in our image”—to show how the Old Testament sows seeds of plurality within the one God, later named fully in the New Testament as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Along the way, we address common objections, including why “Everlasting Father” in Isaiah 9:6 does not erase the real distinction between the Father and the Son.

What does this mean for daily faith? Everything. Prayer finds its shape when we come to the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit. The gospel holds its power when we see the Son obediently laying down his life to the Father, and the Spirit applying that finished work to our hearts. A solitary god cannot be love from eternity, but the triune God is love—forever Father loving the Son in the fellowship of the Spirit—and that love welcomes us into communion.

If this conversation sharpened your view of God and gave you new language for prayer and worship, share it with a friend who’s wrestling with these questions. Subscribe for more Scripture-first studies, and leave a review with your favorite passage that shows the Triune God at work.

Transcript

Setting The Stage For A Different Night

SPEAKER_07 0:07

Christians. Good evening on this Sunday night. I uh hope that you had a good Lord's day. Looking forward to getting into our uh discussion tonight. And what I'm gonna do tonight is gonna be different than what we have normally been doing, which I will resume tomorrow evening. I will not be going through the exposition of Job tonight.

The Big Question: Nature Of God

Defining And Challenging Modalism

What Makes God God: Three Persons

The Baptism Of Jesus As Proof

John 14 And The Comforter

SPEAKER_06 0:37

Tonight, I'm gonna talk about a different subject which has become the topic of many discussions amongst Christians. And excuse me, and one that has been very controversial, but is definitely not new. Definitely not new. And so the thing that prompted my wanting to have this discussion tonight was our sister on the panel right now, Grace, after the fall. Grace, how are you this evening? And she was asking a question a couple nights ago with regard to the nature of God. The nature of God. And so this has been a question that has been, that has ravaged Christianity since the first century. What is the nature of God? What is the nature of God? So for tonight, I'm gonna focus my attention on trying to express exactly what the nature is of God to the best of my ability, as far as what the scripture has disclosed. There are no way to understand every single aspect of the nature of God, but there are those things which He has revealed about Himself that we can absolutely count on. So my sister and your sister Grace asked a question. And the question is, is Jesus Christ? Is Jesus the Father? Is Jesus the Son? And is Jesus the Holy Spirit? Flatly, I have to say, no, that is not the truth. That is not the truth. It is an argument that has been going on for decorating for centuries, and it is called modalism. The earliest known description of it was referred to as modalism. In other words, the Lord Jesus Christ expresses himself in three different modes of his expression. And that is a big problem because it implies a lot of things. And there are about eight things that I'm gonna point out. So tonight I'll be probably talking more than normally and fielding less questions because a lot of times the answers can can drag on for a while. So I'm gonna try to get through as much as I can, and my goal is to get through all of it so that our sister can have a good understanding, and also so that other people who may have questions about it or who may want to develop better arguments against the false doctrine of modalism. So the issue here starts out this way: God is divided, not divided, God is indivisible, but God and what makes God God are three persons. In theological terms, this person, these persons would be called hypostasis. And the unity that these three personalities or these three hypostases have is called the hypostatic union. Now, I'm not going to get into a lot of this technical terms because I want I want to talk to everyday people. The issue is this what defines God? What defines God is the indivisible nature, the undivided nature of three persons in one. These three persons are one. They make up the one God. If you pull Christ, the Son, out of the equation, God is no longer God. If you pull out the Father from the equation of what God is, he is no longer God. If you pull out the Holy Spirit from this equation of what God is, God is no longer God. So it's important to understand that the essence of what God actually is, is the undivided union of three persons that make the one God. In other words, these three persons are what make up the constitution of what we refer to as God. The idea of God Himself, the per the God is not the uh an individual of his own. Like the Father is not God by himself, he is only the Father if he has a Son, and if he has the Holy Spirit, and if these three are in unity, and we will call God's nature tri-unal. So the nature of God is tri-unal or trinity in unity. These three are one. This is where we are. Now, modalism, which is the idea that Jesus Christ is each of these individual personalities, the idea of this is called modalism. That is what the historic expression of it is called modalism. And it says that God is one person who merely appears in different modes. One mode is the Father, one mode is the Son, and one mode is the Holy Spirit. That is what modalism says. But the scripture teaches something very different, and it reveals a real, simultaneous, personal distinction, and not successive roles. In other words, these three are unified in purpose and in administration and in essence. And these three persons, they are what God is. They are what God is. When you look at Matthew, one brother Cause already brought it up. In Matthew 3, verse 16 and 17, you will see that this is when the Lord Jesus Christ is being baptized. John or Matthew 3, verse 16 and 17. Let me get here. So in Matthew 3, we're at the baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ. And it says this, and Jesus being the Son of God, when he was baptized, he went up straightway out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him. And lighting upon him. And verse 17, and lo, a voice from heaven saying, This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased. Notice what is being said here. Notice what's happening here. You have all three persons of the Godhead, all here simultaneously, together, but distinct from one another, yet not undivided in purpose and intent, and in the way they are being put on display for us to see. You see the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Son, you see him standing in the baptismal waters. Clearly, Christ is standing in the waters to be baptized by John the Baptist. And then it says that the Lord Jesus Christ, he saw, in other words, external to himself, he saw the Holy Spirit descending like a dove and then lighting upon him. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, saw this, and what he saw was external to himself. The Spirit of God who descended upon Christ could only descend upon Christ if he and Christ weren't the same. They weren't the same person. The Holy Spirit descended upon Christ, and Christ saw this with his own eyes. You can't see something and say that what you're seeing is you. What Christ was seeing, what the Son of God was seeing, was the Spirit of God descending upon him. A personality that is distinct from himself. Hence, he was able to see it. And then next, we see something pretty profound and heavy here in the word of God. Next, it says that lo and lo, a voice from heaven. Not from earth, a voice from heaven. And the voice from heaven said, with reference to the Lord Jesus Christ, this, the Son of God standing under water, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. The voice of the Father spoke from heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ was standing in the water on earth to be baptized. The Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ saw descended upon him in the form of a dove. Three distinct persons, and yet they are all God. They are all indivisibly God. They are an undivided unity, is three persons, but these three persons constitute the one God. And as I said earlier, to remove one is to take away from the nature of God, and therefore it wouldn't be God. So this is what we have here. In John chapter 14. In John chapter 14, we read something else. Forgive me as I take my time to uh get to these verses because I'm doing it from my computer. But in John chapter 14 and in verse 16 and 17, we read the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. And he says this, I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever. Even the spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him, but you know him, for he dwells in you and shall be in you. Savannah. Listen to what I'm about to tell you. In John 14, verse 16, the Lord Jesus Christ says, I that he's praying to his father. He's praying to a person that is not him. He's praying to someone who is not him. He's praying to his father. Now let me say this at the outset it is impossible for God to be a father unless he has a son. You can't have a father unless you have a son, and you cannot have the son without the son having a father. And father and son are always, even in our own experience, distinct personalities. But in verse 16 of John 14, Jesus says, I will pray the Father, and he, listen to this, he shall give you another comforter. So again, you see three persons being depicted. Christ says, He himself, the Son, the Son of God, he says he's praying to the Father. That's the second person. And then the third person is the comforter that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son, is praying for the Father to send. And then he says that the comforter that he will send will dwell with you and be and and and will be with you forever. Now notice this. I want you to notice something else here in verse 16. The Lord Jesus Christ says, I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter. And notice what he says next. That he, who is he? The comforter. That he, the comforter, he is a person. He will abide with you forever. He, the Holy Spirit, the comforter, the paraclete, cannot be he unless he is a person, and unless he is a distinct person from the Son and the Father. Why? It tells us Christ says, I'm going to pray to the Father, one person, me, one person, who is praying to the Father, and I am praying to the Father that he, meaning the father, will send you another comforter, that he will abide with you forever. And then in verse 17, in verse, and then it said, and then the Lord Jesus Christ says, Whom the world cannot receive. Who it does not see him. Who is him? The spirit of truth. Who is the spirit of truth? The comforter. Who is the comforter? The one whom Christ, the Son, asked the Father to send to dwell within his people. Even the spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it doesn't see him. You may see Christ, but you can't see the spirit of truth. And not only can the world not receive him, because it sees him not, he goes on to say in verse 17, neither does he know him, but you know him, the disciples, the believers, you know him, for he dwells in you and shall be in you. And notice it says, He shall be in you. He shall be in you. You have beautiful language here. Beautiful language here. And so for me, sisters and brothers, for me, this would be enough for me to understand the division of personalities when it comes to the unity of what the essence of God is or what the Godhead is. In John 17, you see this whole chapter dedicated to Christ praying, what we refer to as his high priestly prayer in John 17. And so these this first section of verses that I brought out here, it shows that modalism in what it conveys destroys the clearly, the clear biblical distinction of persons in the Godhead. So before I go into the next point, and I have eight in total, I will reach out to you guys in the panel and get your opening remarks. I'll start with you, Brother Jeffrey. What's your thoughts so far?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Well, good evening, Jonathan, and good evening, panel. Hope that you all have had a you there? Yep, I'm here. I'm here. Okay. Hope you all have had a great weekend and uh gotten some rest, got some things done. Uh Jonathan, I think this is gonna be an excellent study tonight. Uh this is uh should be, I I'll say, pretty basic stuff for the Christian uh to to remember and to know moving forward that we serve a triune God, as you've described, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. But in case there's anybody who's having any difficulty or uh issue getting their mind around that, I think this study tonight will probably illuminate the mind and open up our thinking, Jonathan, to what God's word really has to say about this issue. So, brother, I think it's gonna be a great study tonight. Let's dive into it head first and let's get something good out of it, okay? Amen. Sister Kay, your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

We definitely serve a trying God. And uh, if you don't have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, you do not have the one true God. And I think that it's very important to understand as we're going through the study. Um, there's so many verses. Um one of my favorites is Isaiah chapter 48, verse 16. Even in the Old Testament, we see God as being triune in many, many places. Um, and I can't wait to hear what verses you're gonna bring up because I hope I get something that I can use. So I'm excited to see. I love hearing your point of view on things.

SPEAKER_05 20:33

So I know you're like one of those race horses in a in a in behind one of those little gates before they let them race.

Panel Reactions And Framing

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Oh yeah, um I am well studied on the Trinity, brother, and I I think it's um I think it's beautiful. I think it's something that we definitely should um understand. Um, and I think the the other thing is is we also have to understand that um this is, I believe that the Trinity is the highest revelation that God has given to his people.

SPEAKER_07 21:04

No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

And I think that we we need to understand that even in our own understanding, like the way that the Lord reveals it to us in scripture, I think there's mystery to it. And because it is one of the highest revelations, I think that it is great to say also that at a certain point when it comes to the triumph, there are places where we just have to stop. And I think this is also places that I believe that um this is part of our faith. This is this is one of the most beautiful places because the Lord has given us just enough to understand who he is, but at the same time, it's God is unsearchable. So this is one of the highest revelations in the firmament. Um, so I think that we have to understand that. If we're not careful, um, we can get into error very quickly, and that's something that we don't want to do.

SPEAKER_07 22:06

So for sure, for sure. Brother Mac, your thoughts. Opening remarks, brother, and good evening.

SPEAKER_08 22:13

The Holy Spirit's been with me all my life. He's proved to me almost every day that he's there. And I believe everybody has the power that I have. If they just open their eyes and open their ears, they can see the truth.

SPEAKER_07 22:32

Right. Amen, brother. Amen. Sister Mariah, your opening remarks, and good evening, sister.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Good evening. I'm at a supermarket, so hopefully it's not too much beeping. Um, but I will just say that it's I believe that the main issue is not understanding um Christ's nature before he came in the flesh. It's a reason why the scriptures use the language that they do in this form that um he was made flesh, he became flesh, you know. So understanding that he was eternal before would kind of help the major understanding that he is not just man alone, you know. And there's reasons why the scripture says God the father. If we all know that the God is the father, there would be no need to specify the father in in this way. Um, but I believe that the Holy Spirit did it so we could know who was talking and who is doing what in that moment and in that time. So amen.

Old Testament Hints Of Trinity

SPEAKER_06 23:41

And and Mariah makes a good point, um, which I did not include in my notes. And by no means am I gonna be completely exhausted tonight. That's impossible. Uh, you'd have to go through the entire scriptures to to to exhaust it, and even then we will find ourselves lacking. But one thing that Mariah says is absolutely truth, the truth that Christ was sent by his father to come here to be a sacrifice for our sin. And the father is the one that needed to be appeased. He he needed to be appeased, and the father and the son and and the holy spirit, in their divine counsel, whatever that may look like, it was clearly made a point that the son of God, the middle person of the of the Godhead, would come to earth to die for man, not the father and not the Holy Spirit. And each one of these persons has a different role in our salvation to bring us all to faith and to carry us on until ultimate and final redemption. Sister Lisa, your thoughts. And good evening.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Good evening, everybody. Um, yeah, I think this is um gonna be an amazing study. I look forward to seeing the verses that you pull up. But if if I could, um I'd never even heard of modalism or this train of thought before I came on TikTok. So this place is a kind of a dangerous place, um uh with tons of false, false teaching. But I remember when hearing um hearing it the first time, and I was praying about it to the Lord, and he took me to the very first chapter in the Bible. Um, and it was enough for me. Maybe it's not enough for some people. Genesis 1 26. Then God said, Let us make man in our image.

unknown 25:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

And I had never, I think I'd read that a few times. Um, but after hearing it on TikTok, you know, you see that and you read it. Okay, I mean, it couldn't get any clearer for me. When I see let us make man in our image, one God speaking in a plural sense, there. I mean, um it's it's done. You know, I I don't need anything else. That was enough for me.

Elohim And Plural Language

SPEAKER_06 26:09

You know, and and and see, that's another point. Um, and so Sister Savannah, if you're taking notes, verse uh in Genesis chapter 1, verse 26. I see you, Meg. I'll get to you in a second. The the he says to make man in our image, and that's important because man was not made in the image of animals, man was not made in the image of angels. Man can only be made in the image of God, and every person that knows the Bible knows that we are made in the image of God. So you have to ask yourself when he says in in Genesis chapter 126, what does he mean when he says God, you know, when he says that he makes us or that he makes us uh man in the image of us, it can only be with God being his image that we're being made in, and it would only and it must mean that God is comprised of a multiplicity of persons, and that multiplicity of persons is a unified multiplicity of persons. The Lord our God is one, is one. So again, even in verse in Genesis 126, it is clear you have to conclude because it can't talk about it can't include angels and it can't include animals, so it has to be God and Him alone that we are that in whose image we are made. And that verse clearly points out that God is a multiplicity of persons, and that's what the word Elohim conveys. Generally speaking, when you see I am at the end of a word, it implies it implies multiplicity. So when you talk about seraph, you're talking about an angel, seraph. When you say seraphim, it's a plurality of a class of angels called seraphs or the seraphim. Same thing with cherubs. A cherub is an angel, but when you see cherubim, it speaks to a plurality of cherubs. God is Elohim, he is a plurality of persons that comprise and that comprise one God. The one God is a plurality of persons, but that is what constitutes the Godhead. Father, son, and Holy Spirit. Um so far, Sister Grace, are you with us so far? Are you with me so far? Am I losing you?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

No, I'm I'm with you so far. I'm not lost. Um a lot of a lot of this is is making sense. I just get can I'm I just get confused sometimes because uh like I came across this guy's live, um, it was actually earlier today, he was saying um that Jesus um is the father because in Hebrews sorry, in Hebrews uh chapter one, verse four, it says that um Jesus inherited his name, which makes Jesus the Father. But like, so I'm just confused of like because why is there so much confusion and why is there so many people that are saying like Jesus is the father, uh you know, and that and then some people are saying like no Jesus isn't the father. Like I get there's and I understand that there's three just like separate things, yeah, persons. I just don't understand why some people are like coming to different conclusions with with scripture, you know, and saying that it is it's really not is I'll I'll say this it is really not given to everyone to know.

Listener Question: Is Jesus The Father?

SPEAKER_06 30:02

And here's the reality you have a lot of people out there who will do anything and stop at nothing to attract followers of their own, and and that's just a reality. But it is a false teaching. The the you know, the the scriptures teach us plainly that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and you will see him also called the son of man. And when he's called the son of man, is he himself calling himself that? You know, but but he he is referred to as the son, he's referred to as the son. Throughout scripture, he's the son. The only place you see a reference to Christ being in a father context is when in in in uh Isaiah 9, verse 6, when it calls him one of the names, is everlasting father. But it is not in a sense of everlasting father in terms of the the person of the Godhead. It is speaking of him in the same sense that Moses was called, I mean not Moses, that Abraham was called the father of the book of the faithful. It's in that context, it's in a religious context, and you know, in the terms of a person who leads his children. We are his sons. And so, but Christ, throughout scripture, he is referred to as the son. And so the father is clearly the father, and as I said earlier, you can't be, he can't be a father unless he has an offspring by natural generation, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. Sister Meg, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Just like three simple things, Grace, is when you're explaining stuff to people. One of the things I always say is the Father, because we know that the Son is eternal, okay? So the Father sent the Son of God who became the man Christ Jesus. And I think sometimes when we get into things that are just simple and easy ways to apply, but also everything is done by the Father through the Son and carried out by the Holy Spirit. Okay. So when we start, the what we want to do is if when people get into philosophy and metaphysics, I think it takes away truly from the simplicity that the Lord has revealed to us of who he is. To go any further, we can get an error. Um, but just like when Jesus showed us how to pray, right? So if one has the Holy Spirit living in them, we play to the Father through the Spirit in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. So everything always has um the triumph involved in all matters.