LIVE DISCUSSION: "The Oneness/Modalism Heresy" Part 3/4

Ever wonder why Scripture so carefully speaks of the Father sending the Son and the Spirit being sent to us? We walk through the shape of salvation as a triune work: the Father initiates, the Son accomplishes redemption by bearing wrath on our behalf, and the Spirit applies that finished work to our hearts. This isn’t wordplay; it is the logic that makes adoption, assurance, and worship hold together without strain.

We press into the biblical backbone behind this claim. From Daniel’s vision of the Son of Man coming to the Ancient of Days to Paul’s language in Romans and Colossians, the texts force us to reckon with real personal distinctions in God. Adoption becomes luminous when a natural Son stands at the center: we are sons by grace because He is Son by nature. Reduce the Son to a mode and you turn sonship into a metaphor and inheritance into poetry. Lift Him up as the eternal beloved of the Father, and the Spirit’s witness—crying “Abba, Father”—lands with living power.

We also make the case that the Holy Spirit is not an abstract force but a divine person who speaks, teaches, grieves, and intercedes. Treat Him as a mere attribute and communion with God evaporates into theory; receive Him as Lord and He guides, seals, and comforts with purpose. Underneath it all is a profound claim: God is love, eternally. Eternal love requires an eternal beloved, and that is why the Father, Son, and Spirit are not theological extras but the beating heart of the gospel. Join us as we test assumptions, trace the Scriptures, and call the church back to its core confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

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Transcript

Sent By The Father

SPEAKER_04 0:00

In these four, these three verses, distinct and being presented as being involved in our salvation as a unit, but expressed through different persons. The Father sent the Son. The Son came here that we might receive the adoption of sons, having kept the law for those who were under the law. And then it says in verse 6 that because you are sons, God sent forth his spirit into your heart, the spirit of his son into your hearts, so that you cry, Abba Father. This is plain. It's as plain as the nose on your faces. Modalism, oneness. If that doctrine is true, it eliminates the whole idea of Christ being sent by his father. It eliminates. We talk about business, good business ideas, we call them disruptive ideas, ideas that disrupt. There is no greater disruptor that has ever graced this earthly plot speck of dust than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He came here to disrupt and to divert the wrath of God that we deserved. He disrupted that whole system, that whole process of giving us what we actually deserved in order that we might be reconciled to God. The Father pours out wrath, the son bears that wrath, and the spirit applies satisfaction. Go ahead, Evie. Go ahead.

Daniel’s Vision And The Ancient Of Days

SPEAKER_05 4:49

I just wanted to quickly say, too, and with the coming of Christ, you know, um the particular time frame happened in exact timing because as we know, when we study the scriptures, we see that he was supposed to come before the um the destruction of the temple, right? And so when we look in Revelation, I mean I'm sorry, when we look when we look at Daniel, Daniel is considered their revelation for those that want to say that they only go by the Tanakh, right? And so they're still waiting for the Messiah. But if you go to Daniel 7, 9, right, you see the ancient of days is seated, right? And then when you go into 14, it talks about, are you going to 13? He says he kept looking and went like the Son of Man was coming on the clouds, and he came to the Ancient of Days. So for those that say that he is the father, then who the heck is coming in?

unknown 5:48

Right.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

What's coming in? You know what I'm saying? And what's going on when when Gideon, you know, is visited by this angel and you know, this, this, this agent of God, or whatever you want to call him, right? You know, because he's coming hello, and he comes and he's doing all of these things, and then Gabriel calls him God, and then, you know, Lord, and then he says, um, it's funny because the angel vanishes. So if the angel, so if that angel is, is, they say that that's God coming, right? So the angel vanishes, and then God starts to speak. So hold on, did he just come right back? Did he just leave and come right back?

unknown 6:26

Right.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Or was he just like, you know, is there, just you know, just vanish real quick and then came back. Like, I don't understand that. So then I bring them to these and I say, just explain this to me. And they'll say, Well, that was just a vision. Okay, what's your vision? Wasn't the Mashiach supposed to come before the destruction of the temple? Right. Then it he's that's even fulfilling prophecy in and of itself, there, because he says that he came to his own and his own did not receive them. So what are we seeing here?

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Right.

Adoption Requires A Natural Son

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Amen. You know, it's really, it's really you know, and believe me, this talking about these things doesn't frustrate me one bit. And Sister Grace, I'm glad you brought it up because it's actually something I've been wanting to talk about for a while, just haven't had the occasion to, and uh you uh gave me the occasion to do so. So I'm thankful that I get to explain this and that you're willing to hear it from me and this group. So I appreciate you, sister. I just have three more points that I want to make. So, oneness or modalism, I want to show how it also destroys the whole idea of adoption and sonship that the scripture talks about. So, believers, we are adopted, we are adopted by the Father, right? And we are by this adoption of the Father, we are brought into union with the Son. And then the Holy Spirit is what applies the adoption, and he's referred to as the spirit of adoption. Now let me read something out of Romans 8:15 and 17 through 17. It says this you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry of a father. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and now listen to this: heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. If so be that we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified together. And it's interesting because he talks about we are joint heirs with Christ and heirs with God, if so be we suffer with him, which is what we've been talking about in the book of Job. Suffering. That's a constituent component of our growth as a Christian, that is part of our role to suffer. But I'll continue that in the book of Job starting tomorrow. But here's what I want to point out. Because we are adopted sons. So follow my reasoning here. If the father and the son are the same person, then that means that Christ is not a natural son if we are adopted sons. So let me explain. If you have children, and for whatever reason, you either don't want to have any more children, or you can't have more children, but you well, either you can't have any more, or you don't want to go through the process of it. You decide you want to adopt. You decide you want to adopt, but you don't look at the one you adopt. You may treat them as a natural son or daughter, but you know they are adopted because they are not natural. There's a difference between the natural children and the adopted ones. So the only way when it comes to understanding our adoption unto God by the spirit of adoption is if God Himself has a natural son. We are called adopted sons because we are distinct from God's one and only natural son. So if Christ, if we are, if we are adopted and father, and Christ is the Father and the Son, then Christ can't be construed as a natural son. And it would make it impossible to understand what adoption is, because there would be no reference point for adoption. See, and this is what I mean by we need to understand these biblical doctrines. This is why we need to understand the nature of God. If you don't understand that God is triunal in nature, this will not make sense. If Jesus is the Son and the Father at the same time, then we have no reference point for what it is to be adopted. None at all. Being a son or sonship would only be metaphorical, it wouldn't be real, and it certainly wouldn't be eternal. This is one thing that I really hope you grasp when you look at adoption. Because the only way that adoption makes sense is if you understand who God's natural son is, and adoption comes within the framework of a family. You see what I'm saying? Adoption comes through the framework of a family. If there is no father or no son, because they are one in the same, then what is the context of adoption? People, Christians are always talking about you need to understand the context in order for this to make sense. You need to understand the context. If you are a oneness believer or a person who believes in modalism, you don't understand the context. Adoption only makes sense if there is a distinction between the father and son, because if there isn't, then there's no adoption to be spoken of. There's no reference point for that. Brother Jeffrey, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Jonathan, let's take your last statement a step further. If you embrace oneness, you don't understand the gospel itself. Absolutely. You have missed the point. You have missed the train. You have missed salvation, is what you've missed. Okay. If if that's what you believe, if if you don't believe there's Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, you've missed it. You've missed it completely. Right. And you better go back and get it right. Grace, you did great tonight. This is here's what I want to say to you, Grace, and then I'll mute my mic. This is as pure, simple, and straight as you will ever hear it. Embrace tonight what you're hearing from Jonathan. This is gold from heaven. Amen, brother.

The Spirit As Divine Person

Confessing Christ And Trinitarian Faith

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Amen, brother. I'm trying not to make any mistakes here, but uh I'm sure with this illustrious August group, if I do, somebody's gonna say something about it because I don't want anybody to be to be confused about this. You know, if Christ, if Christ, if he's not the son by nature, then we can't be sons of grace. If he's not the son by natural generation, then we are not adopted today. Simple as that. The next point I want to make, modalism and one and oneness. This makes the Holy Spirit an attribute, an attribute of God, an appendage, as it were, but not a person. Modalism inevitably reduces the spirit to just being God's power or his divine force or energy or his presence or activity, you know, like this divine influence, but not a person. And without laboring too much, because I want to hold the last point out to emphasis, put some more emphasis on, but you'll see in Acts 13 and other places that the Holy Spirit speaks speaks. We see in Ephesians chapter 4, verse 30, where Paul talks about the Holy Spirit being grieved. Can something inanimate grieve? Can a divine influential power or essence or energy can it grieve? No, only a person can grieve. The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed. Can something inanimate be blasphemed? Can you blaspheme a rock? Can you blaspheme electricity? Can you blaspheme gravity? Can you blaspheme the wind? You see, you the the fact that the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed in the fact that Christ could even say that the unforgivable sin is to speak against the Holy Spirit. It is not to speak against an inanimate um figure or an in not a figure, but an inanimate uh force an energy. No, he must be a person if he can speak, if he can be grieved in Romans 8 26, it says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. How can intercession take place without intellect, without knowledge? How can there be intercession? How can the Holy Spirit intercede for us with groanings that can't be uttered by man? But yet is uttered by the Spirit of God? How can the Holy Spirit got guide us and convince us of sin? How does the Holy Spirit know how to effectually call? How can the Holy Spirit call anyone unless he is a person of the Godhead? The Holy Spirit is perfect, is purposeful, intentional, because the Holy Spirit is a person, and Christ always speaks of the Holy Spirit as him or he. And he said that it is needful that I go so that the Spirit, so that I can send the Spirit, and He will show you all things. He will teach you all things, He will guide and direct you in all things, He will seal you until the day of redemption. And the Holy Spirit wills. We see this in First Corinthians chapter 2, verse 11. Let me turn it out. 1 Corinthians 2, verse 11. It says this Paul says, For what man knows the things of a man, except for the spirit of man which is in him. Even so, the things of God no man knows but the spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. And notice this in verse 13 which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches. Does the Holy Spirit sound like some kind of an impersonal it? No. The Holy Spirit is he who is God. He who is God teaches us and gives us instruction, makes us wise unto salvation. The Holy Spirit. And to deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit is to deny all communion with God. We cannot be saved unless the Spirit of God is a person, because it is He who works in us both to do and to will of His good pleasure. It is He who makes us understand the very things we are talking about tonight. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, not Jesus the Son, Jesus the Father, and Jesus the Holy Spirit. If it sounds absurd that God is the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, how can that sound crazy? And saying that Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, and the Holy Spirit, how can that sound not crazy? So the logic in that statement really makes no sense, especially when the one thing that has never been on earth before until Christ was born of the virgin was him. That never existed before. The Son of God existed, but the Son of Man did not. Go ahead, Meg.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Also, what's very important too to understand to add what you were saying is, you know, in Matthew chapter 16, something awesome happens. And Jesus is speaking to Peter. And Jesus says to Peter, he says, Peter, who do you say I, the son of man, am? And he tells Peter, I mean, Peter says, Well, some say you're Elias, some say you're John the Baptist, um, others Elijah. And he says, Peter, who do you say that I am? So now we're in a space where Peter is being asked to reveal the deity of Christ. And Peter responds and he says, Um, he says, You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And essentially I see it as this is a question that all believers must answer. Like it's like Lisa, who do you say that I am? Who do you say that I, the son of God, the son of man am? Jonathan, who do you say that I am? And in the end, Jesus says, Blessed thou art Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but that which is my father in heaven. So essentially, this is the question I feel in scripture that all believers must answer. Why? Because it's the very confession that the Lord Jesus Christ built his church off of. And so when we when we think about these things, and I've been in one this live where I've challenged them and asked them, and it's either a concede or it's they will tell Jesus that he is the Father. And that is so that is not the answer that Peter gave that the Lord Jesus Christ built his church off of. So there's an issue here. And that's why it's complete and utter heresy to even be speaking about this. It's heresy.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

It's horrible. It is heresy. Plain and simple, it is heresy. Brother Pat, go ahead.

God Is Love And Eternal Relations

SPEAKER_01 23:21

First of all. You know, it reminds me of uh God created Adam and upright, right? And said that he was good, but then it says something else. It says that it wasn't good for him to be alone. Does that tell us anything about our creator? And it makes you start thinking about the nature of what does it mean to love? What does it mean to be um relational? And these two, like how can you be um a giving person unless you have someone to give to and and all these things? And you start you start really realizing, oh, when God when the Bible says God is is uh is love, it's because it's part of his nature. There's love between these persons in the Trinity. God was loving before he ever created us, and he was relational before he ever created us, and and all these things. It's really important stuff to understand about God.

The Son Of His Love In Colossians

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Well, that leads me to my next point, and brother Pat started to talk about it. Modalism and oneness, it makes God unknowable as a God of love. This is my big point. This is the biggest one of all. It doesn't, it, it doesn't, it makes it it makes us misunderstand something essential to God's nature. 1 John 4 8 says something very simple. God is love. That is his essential, primary component of his nature, that if we understand nothing else, we understand that. And in the statement, in the statement that God is love implies a multiplicity of persons for the reasons Brother Pat was just talking about. If there is not an object of God's love, then there is no love. There must be the object of God's love. This is the this was the big the big revelation in this regard that the great John Owen brought up brought up. Is that God to be to really know God, you need to know that he is a God of love. He is love. It's not just it's not just that he that he um exacts it, but that is in a that is essential to his nature. And in order for God to be a loving God, there must be a relationship whereby his love is expressed. You can't say you love children if you don't have any. You can't say you love your children if you don't have any. The only way now see, so for God to be a God of love, now we have to attach the fact that this is an essential characteristic of God. He loves, he is love. All right, so now if that is true and God is eternal, which we also know is true, then that means his love is eternal, which means that if he is eternal and he is loved, that means his love is eternal, then that means that he had to have an object of his love, guess what? Which is also eternal. The Lord Jesus Christ is his son, who was with him from the beginning. The beginning of what? The beginning of all things, before all things. Christ is equally eternal as his father is eternal. The father, son, and the holy spirit co-equal in all attributes. There is not one attribute that one has that the other two do not have. That you only see in this book, in this chapter. And it says this in Colossians chapter one, verse 13. It says, Who has delivered us from the power of darkness? Speaking about God, he delivered us from the power of darkness and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear son. But, and I hate to get all Greek on you because I don't like to invoke Greek with a lot of people, because as I always say, most people that are always talking about what the Greek says don't even have a good understanding or a good grasp of English, let alone Greek, and let alone ancient Koine Greek. But this is important to understand because in the text here it says, God has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of his dear son. But the actual translation of this when you in Greek, it reads this way it says, Who has delivered us from the power of darkness and has translated us into the son of his love? We are translated into the son of his love, and this is a very, very important point to what we're talking about. The Lord Jesus Christ is the son or the is the son of God's love, meaning he is the object, he is the object, he is the attention to which God's love is eternally directed. Go look this verse up. And like I said, I hate to get all Greeky on you, but in this case, it really matters because this right here says the son of his love. That's what this verse is actually saying. We've been translated into the son of his love, and you will have um the expression translated into the kingdom of his dear son. Christ is the kingdom that we have been translated into, so we have been translated into the son of God's love. So I hope that makes sense. Christ is the son of his father's love. Christ is his son by natural generation. He was spiritually born, and just as we are and have and were born with the nature of Adam, Christ was born with the he was born with the nature of men by marry, but he is the eternal offspring of his father by natural generation. He always existed, and there is never a time where he didn't. And if God is if God is love, and there was never a time that he was not love, and since he was eternally love, then he eternally had an object of his love, which means that the object of his love also had to be eternal, has to be.