LIVE DISCUSSION: "My Witness is in Heaven" (Job 16:15-22) - Part 5/5

What if being “known” by God means being loved by God—personally, covenantally, and from before time? We dive into the heart of foreknowledge as fore-love and follow that thread through predestination, redemption, and the kind of assurance that holds when explanations don’t. Along the way, Job stands beside us: a faithful sufferer who never got the memo yet became a witness to generations. His urgency before death, his appeal to a heavenly advocate, and his cry, “I know that my Redeemer lives,” become a roadmap for how to trust when answers are silent.

We share how Jesus’ words, “I never knew you,” are not about God forgetting but about a relationship that never was—and why that clarity comforts believers rather than crushing them. Faith emerges as more than a feeling: it’s the Spirit-wrought substance and evidence that anchors us to Christ seated in heaven. Through honest testimonies and praise reports, we celebrate God’s provision without bowing to it, and we name the daily practices that keep the heart steady—preaching Scripture to the soul, resisting the fear of man, and refusing the distractions that dull our worship.

If you need courage to face confusion, or language for your hope, you’ll find both here. We pray together, we rejoice with those who’ve received new jobs and raises, and we lift up those serving the vulnerable. Most of all, we fix our eyes on the Witness in heaven and the Word that heals. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs steel in their spine, and leave a review with the one truth that challenged you most—what will you do with what you’ve heard today?

Transcript

Loved And Known Beforehand

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Because you didn't know me. He says, Depart from me because I never, like, never. Never knew you. How do you love somebody that you don't know? And the essence of the word new or know is love. This is hard. When you really understand the language, new and know is love. So when we talk about the foreknowledge of God, for instance, I was having a conversation earlier today with somebody. Foreknowledge means to love beforehand. And it is the love beforehand that you see in Romans 8, which precedes the predestination. The for love of God is the foundation of his predestination of you to salvation. I loved you before, therefore, I predestined you to salvation. I gave you to my son, and he will redeem you. And when he redeems you, you will be then turned over to the Holy Spirit, who will regenerate you. And in doing so, you can be assured that the will of God will accomplish all that it intends in all aspects of your salvation: election, redemption, and regeneration. Sister May, go ahead.

Foreknowledge, Predestination, And Assurance

SPEAKER_04 1:44

So we know that God's word does not contradict himself. So I was thinking about this earlier today. When he says, I have loved you with an everlasting love. And not only that, he said, I knew you in your mother's womb.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

So if he says, I never knew you, never knew you, that means that these people he didn't even know in their mother's womb.

SPEAKER_06 2:17

No.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

And and we know that because the word cannot contradict itself.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

So it can't be he knew you and then he didn't.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

It's if you are not a child of God, you are mere creation. That's what you are.

Who God “Never Knew” Explained

SPEAKER_06 2:36

Right. You're just, you're, you're, you are. Listen, it listen, Christian, let me tell you something. You have to be biblically objective about these things. I know it sounds crazy to humanity. But you can't dismiss these things because they are spoken in the word of God. Clearly. Unavoidable. Unequivocal. And so, but what does it do? It should foster absolute certainty and assurance that your that your soul is safe with him because of those very reasons. Those are the very reasons. Brother Pat, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

You know, another thing I want to say about Job is God never gets with Job ahead of time and says, hey, here's the plan, Job. Here's what's going on. I'm going to put you through some stuff, but I want you to trust in me. Uh and I've got this reason and that reason. In fact, God never explains himself at all, right? I just want people to consider, if they'll consider one thing I say, it's this. God is doing things that are beyond anything you could have ever imagined. Could Job ever imagine that God is actually vindicating himself to all of creation and that his story would end up in the Bible and it would be used for the sanctification of us and billions of other Christians? Job could have never seen that. He doesn't know why he's going. But here's the thing. You think you're any different? You think you're any different? I promise every individual in here on the day of judgment, when we are united with God, you will understand that there were reasons for everything you went through.

SPEAKER_06 4:46

That's right, brother.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

All of it. And brother.

Be Biblically Objective In Hard Truths

Job’s Trial Without An Explanation

Death’s Urgency And A Heavenly Witness

SPEAKER_06 4:49

Amen. Last verse. Got through it, y'all. Got through it. Verse 22. Joe says, closing out this chapter. When a few years are come, then I shall go the way where I shall not return. So he's closing this chapter out, speaking about and reflecting on the brevity of whatever life he has left remaining. That's what he's talking about. To him, death is at the door. Near and inevitable. And so he's adding a lot of urgency to his appeal to God and to his mediator and for his witness that's in heaven. And his concern is not just relief from suffering, but a resolution before he hopes. Before he goes. He wants to have this matter resolved before he dies. You know? And here's the crazy thing. He gets that. He gets that. He prays to the Almighty, and he he he gets it. The finality of death sharpens Job's desire. That his standing before God is made known. That he just cleared up and acknowledged by all. While he still has a few days left on earth. And I use that metaphorically. I don't mean like real really in a few days, but I mean short. Short. So this verse here, it just underscores the tension between Job's present affliction and the hope that he has in the future, like the hope that we all have for the future. And so Job wants to get the ground, or not the grounds, but he wants to get the situation cleared up about his circumstances. Because remember, even he doesn't know. Even he doesn't know. But he doesn't want this last, he doesn't want the what he can, he doesn't want what he perceives to be the final chapter in his life to be suspended, to be in limbo. He wants it to be resolved before he leaves. Before he goes. But he also, if he must go, he says he wants his blood to speak from beyond and to reach heaven. Where he knows his witness really is. Even if the whole room, the whole city, the whole state, the whole country, the whole world. Let God be true and every man a liar. Do not be afraid to be the only one, like Brother Joseph says, standing up for righteousness' sake. Don't be afraid of men's faces. Be certain about what you know to be true in God's word, and he will never let you down. Know your own heart. Really get to know your own heart. Commune with your soul. Speak to your soul. Remind yourself who is your king, who's your Lord. Do this daily. Don't let sin get in the way. Satan will use every tactic in the book and outside of the book to discourage you. And he will use everything and then turn the ones that you love the most or that you had the highest degree of respect for and turn them against you. Don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. And don't get caught up in this worldly business. Be about our Lord's business and his alone. In that, be provoked and be persuaded in all these things. I want to give you guys everybody your last word. Keep them short and articulate and concise. No sermons. Because I went long tonight, so I'm sorry. But um, sorry, but not sorry. That's what people say today. I like that. Um, but I do want to give you guys your last word. And and again, don't feel that if you don't get it all out, that you need to stop. Get it all out. Um, but um, because I appreciate you and I appreciate the time that you take giving me your generous attention. So get your get your word out for tonight. Um, Sister Sunshine, your last word for tonight. You're new, so you get to speak first.

Let God Be True Though All Oppose

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Um, I would just like to say thank you so much. Um, the word was very edifying, and I just wanted to share this with you, brother. Um, lots of confirmation. When I would type something in the chat, it would come out of your mouth at the same time throughout the whole process. So you didn't know it, but I knew it. It went on for about 50 times. So just confirmation, confirmation, confirmation. So the Holy Spirit was definitely here, and it was beautiful. Thank you, all of you, so much.

SPEAKER_06 12:25

Amen, sister. You feel free to come back whenever you want, okay? But this this is about this is about the time we gather every night, 7:30. So if you can make it, um, then you're free to come here and welcome to have you. Glad to have you.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Amen. Thank you so much, Sister Rosalind.

SPEAKER_06 12:44

You next. You're also one of the new ones, so I'll give you next in line with giving your last word for tonight, sister. You've been a blessing to us tonight for sure. Sister Rosalind, you there? All right, we'll come back. Sister Grace, Savannah. Last word, sister.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Wow!

SPEAKER_07 13:06

I just wanted to say that God's timing is so perfect. Because like last night I was I was a little bummed that like sorry, I was a little bummed that you know um you weren't on, you know, live. But like, but God's timing is so perfect because like I wasn't in the right state of mind either. But I didn't realize that until you know, you said that you weren't in the right state of mind either. So I just want to give all you know all glory to God and thank you, Jonathan, for your time.

Guard Your Heart And Stay The Course

SPEAKER_06 13:45

Thank you, sister. I love you, Grace. I mean, I love you, Grace. I really do. And and like I said, anything that is anything left on the table that's not clear in your mind that I can help with, you know what to do. So we we will we will do that. You hit me up, brother Rod, last word for tonight.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Okay. Um Yeah, I just want to say, yeah, I just want to piggyback off of that. God's timing is so perfect. Um I definitely was looking forward to it yesterday. I didn't see it, but um I I like how you just, you know, it with the timing, you know, it wasn't time, and I feel that because it was I think I can say taken away that I finally grasped what it means that he knew me before, you know, in my mother's womb because, you know, just because I'm suffering, you know, does not equal, does not mean that I'm guilty for any reason, you know what I mean? Like as more as honest as I am about my emotions and speaking up now, you know, it doesn't mean I don't believe, you know, and you spoke about having recording things and stuff like that, so you know when Earth is confusing me about, you know, it's the thing recorded, you know, so you know, I'll and then just you know, my heart just longing for mediation. You know, I just need that advocate just to know that, but he is already there, you know what I mean? And so you know good. It's confirmed already, you know. So I I think I I'm walking away with grasping that I learned that tonight, like officially, you know.

SPEAKER_06 15:13

Good, man. Good. Again, and brother Rod, you and anybody else. Look, I'm willing to I will talk to anybody anytime. And uh so don't, don't, you know, don't let me confuse you on anything without giving me a chance to clear it up for you. Anything. Um I will do whatever I can to make sure something I'm saying is understood anyway. And uh, you know, and I just want to shot at doing that if I can. I really do.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Definitely. Thank you. I appreciate you, man. Always thank you.

SPEAKER_06 15:44

All right, brother. Brother Pat, last word for tonight.

Community Reflections And God’s Timing

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Well, I just uh I'd like uh to encourage people to keep Jonathan in prayer. Um Jonathan, I don't know where you come from, uh but you're a throwback. Um we live in a generation of uh of quote Christian preachers and and ministers. They tell people what they want to hear and they cater all the messages. We were raised in a soft gospel that doesn't convict at all. And sometimes when you're preaching, I almost reel. I have in the back of my mind, I'm like, this is these are truths that are too hard for today's society. They're not going to be able to bear what he's saying. And I just want to encourage anybody who's listening to this the gospel must offend you because God is going to sanctify you. There will be things that you believe that are wrong and you can't hold on to them forever because God's not going to let you. And it hurts, it's gonna make you mad. You might be mad at Jonathan. You know, you might have steam coming out of your ears. And but what I encourage you to do is be like Jacob. You grab onto that promise, you wrestle with it, but you never let go of that promise.

SPEAKER_06 17:12

Amen, brother. Amen. Yeah, yeah. I I you know the mad part, I get that a lot. I get that a lot. Sister Rosalind, you made it back yet? All right, I think she might be uh out or something. Sister Mariah, last word for tonight, sister.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Man, I mean, all of our studies are very edifying and they're so good, but I I just loved how you did um intertwine the gospel in here. I often think of crucifying my flesh daily as speaking the gospel to myself constantly every day and and making sure that I know that I am crucified with Christ. And it's one thing that is just so beautiful. And I think when when I read um, when you're going over 19 and people you hear all of this talk of what is the evidence of your faith? What's the evidence that you are saved? And what is the evidence? Well, my evidence, like Job said, is on high. My evidence is that Christ has rose from the grave and that he is in heaven. He said, What if you see the son of man uh ascending and descending, the son of man who is in heaven? Amen. So even while he's on earth, he's telling them in John 3:13, no one has ascended into heaven, but he who came down from heaven, that is the son of man who is in heaven.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

My evidence is in heaven. Right. And so if you have an issue or you want to overlook something, look look to Christ and you take it up with him.

SPEAKER_06 19:00

Right. And you know, something I'm gonna add something else to that about evidence, because in you know, in Hebrews, you know that passage where it talks about um uh what is it? Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of the evidence of things unseen. He calls, he he calls the Hebrew writer calls faith, evidence and substance. So when people ask the question, what is the evidence of your or of Christ being who he is and God being who is, it's also my faith. My faith. And Job keeps talking about this. This is what Job is talking about. He's going, he's saying that you can say what you want to say about me. I know I'm still connected to God. And I and I can't be lying about that because what would be the point? God knows my heart, and he's telling his friends, I can attest to you fully that I am his, he's mine. I trust him. My faith hasn't waned at all. That's my evidence. Job knew that he was a man of faith. You can tell me whatever you want to say about me. You can hate everything I say, but you're not good, you're never gonna be able to take away the fact that I know who it is in whom I believe.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

And our faith comes from him. So circle, right?

SPEAKER_06 20:23

That's right. That's right. Sister Meg, last word.

Faith As Evidence And Assurance

Job 19 Proclaimed: My Redeemer Lives

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Mariah, our faith is him. Amen. It is him. Now, Jonathan said something about frequency, so I'm gonna I'm gonna read this because I feel led to and I have to. I'm just gonna joke jump job to Job 19 because we've got to hear this over and over again. And it says, For I know that my Redeemer lives, and he shall stand at the last day on the earth. And after my skin is destroyed, this I know that in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another, how my heart yearns within me. If that is the frequency that we have to have and understand, be able to memorize those verses, quote them, lead your brothers and sisters to them, because this is the very first book of the Bible. And Job saw and knew, especially when we get. In the John, I mean Job chapter 42, verse 5, which is another one you got to get in your heart. So look over that today. But this book is phenomenal, and I have learned, and my faith has grown. And the word of God alone, you need nothing else. It will heal you, it will sanctify you, it will grow you in every single way that is imaginable in your life. The word of God says, put me in remembrance of my word. And I'm gonna tell you something. I do it often. And we have to because you don't need a deliverance minister, you don't need somebody to lay hands on you. All you have to do is open this book and it will literally heal you. I am a testimony of that healing. It will heal you every word of it. And I just had to say that tonight. Gotta get into 19. I had to jump, brother, because it was that powerful.

SPEAKER_06 23:26

That's okay. That's all right. That's that's all right. Like you said, I'm a I'm a big frequency person. Say something over and over again, it will sink in. Sooner or later, it will sink in. So no problem at all. Sister Roslin, I'm gonna give you one more shot if you're there, sister. So she might be out for the count. Uh, brother Jeffrey, last word and close us out if you would, brother. And before Jeffrey, hold on. Before Brother Jeffrey says anything, I want you guys to know that this brother was blessed with a job he was looking for, and he got it. I'm happy he got it. So whenever he can't stay with us very long, it has to do with him getting his rest so he can do his job. But it's a blessing that he got this job, and I want everybody to acknowledge that this is a good thing for him. And so it's a it's a little bit of a praise report for him.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

So um you have a praise report real quick? Sure, go ahead. So this time last year, I was the only one, I was one of three in my company who got a mid-year raise, right? And that does not happen. Well, this year, because we're in the housing market and interest rates are high, we didn't sell a lot of houses, the Lord blessed me again with another raise just today. And so I just wanted to just glorify the Lord in that moment. And, you know, I always tell the Lord in those things, like so many people are focused on money. And I always tell the Lord, Lord, when I'm focused on you, it'll come. I don't have to worry about anything. When it's my time, you will prepare it for me and it will be perfect. And so I just wanted to tell y'all, I'm so thankful. And I just wanted to go glorify God in that praise report and in that moment. It's more people that we can help and love. Amen.

SPEAKER_06 25:18

All right, sister. Good, good, good, good work, obviously. And God bless you and being able to make that next step in your career, whatever that may be. So I'm glad for you. Really, really, I'm glad for you. I really am. Brother Jeffrey, go ahead.

Praise Reports And Provision

SPEAKER_05 25:37

Well, first of all, Megan, congratulations. You are uh an example, you are an encouragement, and you are a blessing. Uh we know and understand that you work hard at what you do. So keep up the good work, sister, and just continue to do what you do. As Jonathan mentioned a moment ago, I did start a new job. The job that I'm doing, folks, is working with people who are emotionally, mentally challenged, special needs individuals, and people who are dealing with and recovering from some sort of addiction. That's who I'm working with, serving and encouraging right now. And I gotta tell you something, folks, I've done this in another place before, but this company that I'm with now is even more qualified to help those people. They love who I am, I love who they are, as seemingly so far, has been a good match for everybody concerned. So thank you for your prayers. And my point here is that it's not it's because of your prayers, your love, your outpouring and pleading to God on my behalf is the difference. And I thank all of you who have prayed on my behalf for this. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

And so uh uh And Brother Jeffrey, God is love. Who is that the brother that comes in all the time? Uh, Brother Jonathan, he asked for prayer in the chat. God is God is love. He comes up here, he has the circle.

SPEAKER_06 27:14

Oh, you mean um um is it man of God?

SPEAKER_04 27:25

No, it's we have to it's hold on. I've gotta look him up because we have to pray for him. He doesn't ask for prayer much, and so um God is God is Lord.

SPEAKER_07 27:46

I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

You know his name, name he comes in and preach and preaches all the time, too.

SPEAKER_06 27:51

Yeah, I know his name. I know his name.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Um, I'm gonna look it up.

SPEAKER_06 27:54

I also know if it's good for me to say it because some people get all kind of He He doesn't.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

While you're looking, Meg, let me Yes, yes, Brother Ben.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Can we pray for him? Uh Brother Jeffrey, please.

Serving The Vulnerable With Prayer

Stirring Exhortation And Corporate Prayer

SPEAKER_05 28:09

Yes, we will pray for Ben. Let me uh close up my comments here real quick by saying this to all of you. Tonight, we have been provoked and persuaded, and I'm not talking about Jonathan, I'm talking about the words that have come from his mouth and from his heart. To all of us in the uh uh thing here tonight, that are in the panel, down in this conversation below, I ask you this one question. What are you, we, that includes me especially, what are we going to do with what we've been given and learned tonight? Are we gonna sit on it, enjoy it? Oh, this is great. Okay, yeah, it is. But are we gonna let it change us? Are we gonna let it start a fire in us? Because that that that's what this world is longing for, what we've heard tonight. There are people who are literally dying to know and have what we have been blessed with. Now we've got to go tell them. Okay, use everything God has blessed you with to do that, okay? Father, we just thank you tonight for the privilege and the opportunity to come together in your name, Lord, and to rejoice in who we are, that you love us with an undefinable, unimaginable love. Or Lord, we lift up Brother Ben tonight to you. We pray for him. We pray your blessings over him. And even though we don't know the exact cause of what's going on, everything in his life, we know you do. So, Lord, we just ask that you cover him with your grace right now. You cover him with your protection, with your healing power, with your power, Lord, that changes everything in a person's life from darkness to light. Father, you are nothing but light, pure, holy, righteous light. And we pray for more of that in our lives. Father, we pray for all that we can have. Lord, we know there's more of you. And Father, we want more of you. Not stuff, not things. We want and desire, Lord, more of you, your presence, your blessing, not just your knowledge. Yes, we need more knowledge to work in this world, but Father, more wisdom to know how to use the knowledge wisely, properly, correctly, when to speak, when to not, when to listen, Lord, and to know, Father, to follow your pleading. Not your pleading, but Lord, your leading in our lives. So that we would just the tiniest word you speak, Lord, our head turned, and we say, Lord, here am I, use me. So, Lord, all of us tonight, we just join together in prayer and say, Here we are, Lord, we are but your servants, use us. Wherever you would go and wherever you would have us, lead us, and we shall go. We thank you. We love you, Lord. Thank you for this mighty man of God who we call our friend and our leader, who provokes and persuades. You have truly blessed him and his lovely wife. Father, watch over us tonight now. It's time to get some sleep. Bring us back tomorrow. Help us, Lord, that special someone in our life, husbands, wives, whatever, spend quality time with them tomorrow and tell them how much we love and appreciate them and how we thank you for them. And we ask all this now in the mighty name of Jesus. Hallelujah and amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_06 31:33

Amen. Amen. Before we go, I just wanted to mention, I just wanted to um mention a few people's names because I know that everybody you know doesn't always get here right at the time where they can get on the panel, but some of them some of them are in the chat, and I'd just like to uh acknowledge them. Like uh sister or brother Sila, who's always here. Uh Silah, thank you for your time here. And I'm and I'm thanking all of you guys. I just want to throw your names out there real quick. Um, Joseph, you know, old school. God bless you, brother. Thank you for being here. Vanessa and Bobby, sisters, two sisters, I love you both dearly. Uh, and you guys never know how you guys never know uh how much you mean to me, and I do know how much you love me, so I thank you for that. Um, Cody, um Davey, Helena Cunningham, John, Chris, Gideon, thank you for being here with us tonight. Eileen, uh Mandy, uh, thank you for being here. Michael, Kelly, as always, you've been with me for a long time, Blazing Rolls. I love your sister. You're the only one I know that can you can just get me, stop me dead in my tracks when I'm in the most serious and say something goofy that'll make me want to like just crack up. Um, anyway, I just wanted to mention Brother Mac. Love you, man. Love you, Mac.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Um love you, Mac.

SPEAKER_06 32:58

Yeah, you guys are just great people. And if I don't get everybody's name, I'll I'll get you in another day. Because I I don't always get to see because I'm trying to focus on what I'm talking about and you know, getting people's names down so I can get to their questions. But just know that I do pay attention and I and and I I am so grateful for all of you. I really am. Um, so um uh Mariah and uh Grace, are the babies available?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, no, you're not Grace, but can you say what you want to say? You said what do you want to say? I say okay today. Okay, say goodnight.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Hallelujah. Good night, good morning, good morning, good night, good night, love you, hallelujah.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

I love you, hallelujah. I love you too, hallelujah.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_06 34:02

I love it. Gracia little ones there, Savannah.

SPEAKER_07 34:07

Yeah, she yeah, she's being shy. She already said goodnight. I know I heard night, the other one's asleep.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

All right, well, I love you guys.

Gratitude, Names, And Blessings Shared

SPEAKER_04 34:18

I love every all of you, and uh we love you too, brother Jonathan, more than you'll ever know.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

You're the man, Jonathan. Oh, stop that nice. We love you, brother. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

The only thing that we ask is don't be a bill dad ever in your life. Haven't heard that in a while.

SPEAKER_06 34:35

All right, guys. Man, congratulations on your on your your your uh glory to God. He's so good. Brother Jeff, God bless you for your for what God has done for you, too. So you guys have a great night until we get back to we get back together. All right.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

All right, good night, guys. Love y'all.