LIVE: "Can a Man Be Profitable Unto God?" (Job 22:1-9), Part 2/4

Some Bible verses don’t just challenge us, they expose us. As we work through Job 22, we slow down and get painfully specific about words, because a sloppy paraphrase can turn theology into confusion fast. We talk about why people expect instant “miracle” change, why that expectation can crush real growth, and why careful biblical precision is an act of love, not nitpicking.

Then we dig into Eliphaz’s accusation in Job 22:4, where he essentially frames Job’s suffering as if Job thinks God is afraid of him. It’s wild on the surface, but it reveals a common pattern: self-righteous confidence that demands a verdict. We discuss how Job’s friends twist logic to force Job into agreement, how “wisdom of the world” can hide inside spiritual language, and why listening closely often reveals what a person truly believes.

We also connect the theme of fear to the way humans act in conflict and judgment, contrasting that with the sovereignty of God. From there, we move to Isaiah 53 and the innocent suffering of Jesus Christ, showing how the world often reads suffering as guilt and treats righteousness like a threat. If you’ve ever felt judged by your worst day or pressured to confess what isn’t true, you’ll hear Job with fresh clarity.

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Transcript

Miracles, Growth, And Careful Words

SPEAKER_02 0:00

They they expect miraculous things to people to to change completely overnight. Um, you know, whatever sin that was troubling them or struggling with, there they're it's no longer an issue, you know, because God has just turned it and waved his magic wand, so to say. Right. So um I think that that is true. And somebody told me, like, you don't need to be so precise with your words and careful with your words. But I said, Oh, but we do. This is the reason why there's so much confusion, you know. We should speak as so the Bible says, and not to add in any word in between because that changes the whole perspective of things.

Listening For Exposure And True Wisdom

SPEAKER_08 0:45

You said a mouthful there, sister. So true. I'm a I'm a stickler for biblical precision, and I think that we all should be absolutely, absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. So true. Sister Candy, you made it back. You hear?

SPEAKER_09 1:01

Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_08 1:02

Yep, we hear you fine. What you want to add to anything? You want to say anything?

SPEAKER_09 1:06

Just from where you began and was talking about, you know, I I this is what was what I'm saying. Jesus tells us that because we love him, the father, his father, the father will love us. Because we love him. Right. That was beautiful when you said that, because that was what was coming to me. Right. I've been wanting to say, um, but brother Pat hit the nail because it's the exposure. Right now, Job is seeing his friends be exposed. So God's God is exposing, giving us an example as well with how people can be exposed, the enemy be exposed just through what he says. Right. Even though he can be someone that's so close to us. But just listen to what they say. So it's that be quiet and listen twice as much as we speak. And then we find out everything about it.

SPEAKER_07 2:02

You do.

SPEAKER_09 2:04

And and they if they if they're so wise, like we were talking about the wisdom, they're they're showing the wisdom of the world because they're a little bit ignorant with it. And then it comes to the word. They don't even know the word. So how can they know the word and not not see what Job's experiencing and what Job's saying when he's responding to what they've already said, they're still not even taking God's word into consideration.

Righteousness, Profit, And God’s Sovereignty

SPEAKER_07 2:29

Right. Right. Absolutely. Sister Vanessa, how you doing tonight? And good evening.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Good evening, everyone. This is nerve-wracking for me. Sorry. Hey, sister, I didn't even see you up, or I'm just listening.

SPEAKER_09 2:44

I gotta hit it, but uh my opening thoughts are um we can we can't profit from any or gain anything for being righteous, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

But we can have wisdom, but that doesn't mean that God needs us to have that, right? That's what I'm getting from this job reading here. And uh it just shows that God is sovereign, right? No matter what we have or what we do, and Job's friends are gonna find out.

SPEAKER_07 3:23

They're gonna find out for sure. Yeah, they're gonna find out for sure. Good words, sister. Brother Jeffrey, your opening remarks, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_06 3:34

In these first uh few verses here of chapter 22, I see Job's friends uh being self-righteous, and they are accusing Job of being self-righteous when he is in reality. So we'll move back up here. People who are self-righteous accuse men and women of God who are walking with him, in him, through him, and being God's servant, oftentimes accuse them of being self-righteous. And that's what I see Job's friends doing here. In their self-righteousness, they are accusing Job. Job is innocent. They still haven't figured that out yet, right? But we know that. And they are accusing Job of being self-righteous when in fact they are the ones who are self-righteous, and we're seeing it right now in these verses in chapter 22.

SPEAKER_07 4:36

Amen. Go ahead, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Man, fleeting thoughts. It wasn't important, I bet. I had it in my head and it just left.

SPEAKER_07 4:52

All right, no problem. Candy, go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 4:57

Brother Jeffrey, you just made me remember something else I was gonna say, and it was about, you know, when you think that you're don't don't go thinking that you're something, which is what his friends are doing. They're thinking there's something dealing with dope. When all in all, they're like, well, I I would agree quite sad. They're trying to tell Joe that because he's saying he's innocent, that he thinks he's something when he's deceiving himself. When all in all, again, like I said yesterday, they're gonna fall by their own account.

SPEAKER_07 5:28

That's right.

Unpacking Job 22:4 Line By Line

SPEAKER_08 5:29

Amen, sister. So, Savannah, let me ask you a question. And I'm gonna read this verse first. I'm gonna read the next verse, verse 4 of Job 22. Elipha says to Job, will he, meaning God, will God reprove you for the fear of you? Will he enter with you into judgment? Sister Savannah, what do you think he's saying? Just what you think. It doesn't matter if you're wrong or right, just tell me what you think this sounds like he's saying to Job.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I think he's saying that I think he's saying that that God that God is not I think he's saying that God is not willing to like chastise him because he's accusing Job of not being uh a true believer.

SPEAKER_08 6:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Is that what is that what it's saying? Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 6:33

No, that's okay. It's not about being right or wrong. I'm trying to we're trying to get people to I just want to get everybody to think about it. And we're gonna get to this together because I want to this is what I want to go around and ask people about. So no, you got a good start there. Uh, brother Rod, what do you think? When j when Joe when Elifaz says, Will God reprove you for fear of you, will he enter into you with judgment?

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Um I think it uh goes back to like the transactional thing. I mean, you know, yeah, we should repent for, you know, our sins and things like that, you know, do the whole 180, right? But uh it's like he's saying in order to give a story, you you you have to repent. But like Jesus Christ is this is as he tells us, it's through uh but just grace and mercy.

SPEAKER_08 7:22

Okay, I'm gonna pick on you tonight because you you the you're the guy I'm gonna pick on tonight. All right, all right, all right, okay. All right, so let me let me do it. But it's all in love. Let me let me let me pick on you for a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 7:36

He says, the question is Eli Fazer asking the question. Will he, meaning God, will God reprove, he tells he's saying he's telling this to Job. Will God reprove you for the fear of you? Will he enter with you into judgment? What is he saying there? Now you you brought up repentance. That's there's nothing in here about repentance, nothing like that at all. Okay. Look at the verse, isolate what is being said, look who's talking, who he's talking to, and what is he saying?

SPEAKER_04 8:08

Okay, in order to will he will he will he will he enter into him with judgment?

SPEAKER_08 8:14

It says he says, Will he yeah, will he reprove, will God reprove you, Job, for fear of you. Will he enter with you into judgment?

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Okay, okay, no, okay, so that's kind of what you were saying in the beginning. Like, you know, it's like don't don't just make it look at the text.

SPEAKER_08 8:34

Look at the text.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Focus on the text. I don't have my Bible in front of me, but I'm listening, I'm trying to process what you're saying. I got it, I got it in my head.

SPEAKER_08 8:43

All right. Um you gotta bring your word next to the video.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

I'm thinking I'm on my way home. I'm actually on my way home, but I'm dedicated, I'm telling you. I'm driving home doing it. All right. But no, um, I guess he's saying like we don't, uh he doesn't need, he's making him feel as though he needs him in order to, you know, to, you know, I I I think that's kind of what you said in the beginning, you know. I I don't need God doesn't need us in order to make his make everything come. I'm missing the word here, but he just doesn't need us. And Allie Foss is trying to make Joe feel that way.

SPEAKER_08 9:22

That is the okay, so what you're dealing right now, what you're saying right now is the basis for what their answer really is. So you you're establishing a basis, a premise for what this is actually talking about. So you're going in the right direction, but let me get you some help. All right, brother Pat, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05 9:38

What is he saying here? I think what he's saying is, listen, man, you're trying to say you're innocent. The judgment that you're under says otherwise. So who's the judge here? Is God answering to you? Or are you answering to him?

SPEAKER_07 9:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 9:58

All right. Uh, brother Jeffrey, what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 10:05

I know, Jonathan, that you don't always agree with my translation, but mine says, uh, Job, is it for your piety that he rebukes you and brings charges against you? So again, we see the self-righteousness of Job's friends trying to uh stir up something in Job or get him to answer for something, Jonathan, that we know isn't there. So I just like it just, I don't know, gets me that we've gone through 22 chapters so far, and his friends are still clueless. Right. That's what gets me here in in chapter four. That's anyway, that's my take on it. All right, Meg and then Mariah.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

What's he saying here? I think so. If we take the context from the previous verse, listen to what it says. Is there any pleasure to the Almighty if you are righteous or prophet, if it make your ways perfect? It is because of your reverent fear that he reproves you and that he enters into judgment against you.

SPEAKER_08 11:20

Wait, say that say that say that last part again? It is because of what?

SPEAKER_03 11:24

It is it because of your reverent fear that he reproves you, that he enters into judgment against you. So I would say God's not judging people because they're righteous, right? Therefore, Job is not righteous.

SPEAKER_07 11:44

Okay, Mariah, what say you?

SPEAKER_02 12:08

But I feel like the second half is is saying, like, will he stand? Is God gonna be standing in his place for judgment?

SPEAKER_07 12:18

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

So if God doesn't need us, but do you expect him to be standing in our place for judgment?

SPEAKER_08 12:26

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 12:29

All right, all right, I'll give you one more shot, Rodney. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

All right. Um it's like he's reducing his his like to slightly, I guess it's like he's downplaying. I guess I'm because I'm trying to. It's like he's downplaying his right to you.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

That he reproofs you? Hold on, hold on, hold on, Rodney. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I thought I was Mike, I just thought I was meeting. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:56

It's like he's just making like it, I guess he's trying to make him feel irrelevant to God. Like, I mean, like I he doesn't need you, so you're irrelevant and which you know you're just which you're wasting your time in a sense.

SPEAKER_07 13:09

All right, I'm gonna take one more. Candy, go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 13:15

So when when you first read it, it made me think that they were trying to ask Job, was him fearing God, or is God supposed to fear him?

SPEAKER_07 13:27

Keep going.

SPEAKER_09 13:27

But at the same time, basically, what what they're saying to him is what God does do for his focus on the question. Well, it fear focus on the question. Again, it's it's when when you first said it, the thing that came to me was Is God gonna repu reprove you and and in fear of you? So are they saying are they saying that God's in fear of Job because he's righteous, that he's gonna be reproved?

SPEAKER_08 14:08

That's exactly like that's exactly what he's saying.

SPEAKER_09 14:12

Yeah, like who are you? God's not gonna, you know, God's not gonna fear you, you should fear him. It's like they're taking that from and putting it on Joe.

Is God Threatened By Job

SPEAKER_08 14:21

All right, so here's here's what's happening. So Candy is right. So what he what what he's the question he's asking, he's saying, is God, he's saying, is God gonna correct you because he fears you. You see what I'm saying? He so so they're painting a picture of Job painting a picture that Job is so righteous that God has to reprove Job out of fear. Almost as if Job is elevating himself above God so much so that God himself is is in such fear of Job that he has to bring all this judgment upon him. You understand what I'm saying? So there the question that he's asking, you know, to Job, he's going like, you know, are you suggesting basically that you you act as though God is correcting you and punishing you like you're being that you're suffering simply because he has something to fear about you. In other words, like God is somehow threatened by Job. So God is punishing Job because he sees Job as a threat.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Oh, so then like Job is going to be like correcting God or judging God or he like he's the Almighty.

SPEAKER_08 15:41

Right. That's what he that's what they're accusing Job of thinking. You think you're so high and mighty that the that that he's look here's what he's saying. Because and it's and it's hard to explain because it's the word of God. This is why we need to study these things. So what he's saying is this he's going, he's saying Job, you think you are righteous. But here's the thing Job is righteous, that's what I'm talking about. They don't know it, but Job is. Okay, he is. But Job has suffered an immense uh immense series of calamities. Tribulations and persecution, he suffered us suffered a lot. These guys are saying that the reason why that happened is because he's wicked. But this is not why it happened, as we all know. So when Job is saying, No, I have not forsaken my faith. I have, I'm up, my righteousness is upheld, meaning his righteousness as a believer. Not that he doesn't sin, but he's saying, I have not turned my back on my God. All right? So they are saying, oh, so you think you're still righteous. You think you still, after all of this, and what after what we are looking at right now, looking at you, Joe, pathetic as you look, you are still saying the truth, that you are righteous with God. So then what so then their conclusion is, well, then you must think that the only then you have to believe that the only reason, so are you saying that the only reason your in other words, your calamity is not retribution from God, it's not divine wrath. You're basically saying that you are receiving this condemnation basically because like j God is envious of you. If it's because they're looking at it like, if it's not because of your wickedness, what else could it be other than that God is doing this to you because he fears you? You see what I'm saying? This is what he's saying. It's crazy, but this is what he's accusing them of. Uh who did I miss? Sister May, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

I wanted to look up the Hebrew rendering. So it says, Is it because of your fear of God that he reproves you? Will he enter with you into judgment? Right? Meaning that he's God, he's saying that God would enter into judgment with Job. Yes. Because of his fear?

SPEAKER_08 18:09

Yes. He the what he's saying, what he is saying, what he's talking about is not a reality. He is speaking from the standpoint of Job of what he thinks what he is speaking from the standpoint of what he is saying Job thinks he is. And in other words, he he is what what everything that what Eliphaz is saying right now is this. If you are as you say you are, righteous and holy and upright, and all the things that God actually said Job was, so then why is this happening? We are saying that it's happening because of your wickedness.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

So Job is so Eliphaz is basically denying what the Lord spoke over Job in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_07 18:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

A perfect and upright man, one that God and cheweth evil. He's twisting it, acting like the Lord didn't say that about Job when clearly he did.

SPEAKER_08 19:06

Right, but he doesn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

So doesn't know that.

Fear As A Motive In Human Judgment

SPEAKER_08 19:09

He doesn't know that. So so he's saying that, so he because remember, his whole argument, the whole argument of all of his friends is that what happened to Job is because of his own sin. Job is saying, I didn't sin. I have no scandal. There's nothing there. You're wrong, you're barking up the wrong tree. All right? So when Joe and Job maintains his integrity. So Eliphaz is saying, if you are sitting here trying to maintain your integrity, what are you saying? He goes, because the only thing left for you to be saying is that this is happening to you, which is obvious, but you're saying that it's happening to you because there's something about you that threatens God. So he has to put you down so that you can't raise yourself up above him. That's the that's the that's the idea. He's accusing Job of thinking he's you know the expression, holier than thou. And he's accusing Job of saying, do you think that God that God is doing this to you not out of because of of retribution? And if it's not retribution, then the only thing it can be is that you feel, Job, that God is fearing you because you are uh at least as holy as he is, and that's the reason why he's correcting you, he's reproving you. This is what he's saying. And then he goes on by saying, Will he will will he mean God, will he enter into the with judgment? You see, people in the world listen, we see it right now. We see it right now. What is the reason? What's the primary reason that is being given for why we are attacking Iran? Anybody? I'm not making it political, I'm just using this, it's a real example. What is the reason that our government, our president, is saying that we win in, that we're going into Iran? Why? Anybody? Because I know you all listen to the news.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

So I don't watch the news at all. I have no idea what's going on in the world. Sorry.

SPEAKER_08 21:14

All right, anybody, anybody, anybody know the reason that is given why we're well let me let me make a broader question. Why do we attack any country? Why does any country attack another country? Let's keep it broad.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Resources?

SPEAKER_08 21:28

No.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 21:33

What's that? Fear. Fear. Fear of what?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Of the other country.

SPEAKER_08 21:39

W I you know, and fear of them, why? The other country, why?

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Because they think that they can do better in their zones than we can. Because we think that they can take over. That's right. They we are inferior.

SPEAKER_08 21:55

Well, the threat. The threat. Countries attack other countries to prevent that which threatens them. That which threatens them. And so earthly rulers, they act unjustly all the time from fear of those who are stronger than themselves. But see, God is above all of this. He's above the foray of man's fear. God is what what what Eliphaz is saying is that God is not intimidated by you, Job. But the problem is that Job doesn't see God that way. He doesn't see his relationship with God that way. Job is not trying to intimidate God or threaten God. That's the accusation leveled against him. His argument that he's saying is true. But it doesn't apply to Job. When God reproves, hold on, this camera thing is going on. When God reproves or judges anyone, it is never because he is threatened or constrained in any way. And this is what this is what Eliphaz is saying, but is this not what Job is attempting to do. And this is what we need to understand. Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

So he's almost saying two things at at the same time. Job, you think that God is in fear of you and that somehow you're more righteous than God. And you know, you stand by side by side with him in judgment. Um, but he's also saying, no, you're not. You know, he's it's it's like he's saying both things at the same time.

SPEAKER_08 23:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I don't know how that's possible, but if that makes sense, that's what he what he's doing.

SPEAKER_08 23:47

It makes a lot of sense. You know, and and and see, and what this is proving is that if if God brings affliction, or if he enters into judgment with a man, it has to arise from a just cause that resides within the man himself. God doesn't God doesn't render judgment out of fear or out of constraint for for other men. He doesn't do that. And this is the implication. He, you know, Elifaz is trying to assign to Job a belief that Job fears he's intimidating God. And that's the reason why God is punishing him. Going back to the analogy of warring countries, you know, think of we we've always been rivals with Russia. So think of Job as Russia, think of God as America. What what what the argument that that Elifaz is making is that is that America, meaning God, is attacking Russia, which is uh Job because he's fearful of what his greater threat might be. The analogies break down, but that's what the idea is. So if you look at it that way, you you start to understand. And what and and so he's accusing Job of being an aggressor toward God, and that God is reproving Job to put him in his place so that he doesn't dominate God or or or put himself in or elevate himself to a superior role. And so remember, he's he's telling Job, you think you're so righteous. Almost to the point where are you more righteous than God? This is what he's talking about. This is what he's talking about here. And it's in this and it's it's so profound. And he's saying that God is not God is not uh a man where he sits down and you guys can dispute and have a conversation about territory. You see, you see what I mean? And and and forgive me if I'm not making this clearer, but it it's really a heavy statement that he's making, that he's making here. And he's accusing him of thinking that he's greater than God. And and like we said earlier, holier than thou. God is never motivated to judge, condemn, or bring retribution because he feels pressured to do so. God is never pressured by man to do anything. Everything God does is a result of his sovereign will that has already established long before the creation of the world that he's going to do. And nothing is gonna stop that, nothing is gonna stay his hand. Sister May, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Okay, Isaiah 53, verse 4. Surely our griefs he himself bore, and our sorrows he carried, yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. So could this be in comparison to the Lord Jesus Christ? Because the world saw him as people thought that he was suffering because of his guilt. And he wasn't. He was the Lord Jesus Christ coming to unalive for our sins. But would it be that in the same sense if we're comparing it to the Lord Jesus Christ?

SPEAKER_08 27:28

I'll tell you something. You bring up something pretty heavy because uh I don't know if this is what you were saying, but if this is what you're saying, this is heavy because why did they crucify Christ?

SPEAKER_03 27:40

They crucified him because they ass they for blasphemy.

SPEAKER_08 27:45

No, no. Keep in mind the context of what we're talking about right now.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

They said that he would take all the people, all the people will begin to follow him.

SPEAKER_08 27:55

Yeah. So he was what?

SPEAKER_02 27:59

He is God.

SPEAKER_08 28:00

No, he would no.

SPEAKER_09 28:02

He was a threat. Yes, he was a threat.

SPEAKER_08 28:04

He was a threat. That's why our Lord was crucified, because he was a threat to the establishment of the day, and he still is today.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Amen. But even in that, like Job, the Lord Jesus Christ was suffering for redemption, and Job is suffering in a like manner just as Christ did.

SPEAKER_08 28:27

That's right. No, absolutely right.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Because he was innocent.

SPEAKER_08 28:30

Yes, right. He was totally innocent. Job was innocent, Christ was innocent. Job, they are presenting the case with Job that he thinks he's a threat. Christ actually was the threat. You see how good the word of God is, everybody?

SPEAKER_03 28:47

You see You just get your wheels spinning, especially on verses like this where they almost seem to contradict, but they really don't. It's until you walk through it. It's good.

Speaking Truth Against Polished Error

SPEAKER_08 28:59

So his so his premise with this question, which is rhetorical, the premise of it has this underlying claim, which is that suffering must be rooted in actual guilt. That's what it leads to. This this is the conclusion where he that he's driving toward. Because he's because he doesn't believe Job is greater than God at all. He's trying to wear Job into a mental exercise of saying, you are not greater than God. God's not condemning you because he didn't do all this to you because he fears you. He's doing this because you are guilty, Job. So the question reinforces the idea. So when you listen to what these guys are, when you listen to what Job is saying and what his friends are saying, you are seeing masters of debate at work. And these men are no match for Job. But any but any of these guys outside of Christ would be a devastating match against us. But when you have the truth of God richly dwelling in you, they can't re they can't deal with you either. They can't deal with you either. Stop being afraid, everyone, of speaking the truth. The Holy Spirit of God is in you. If you are studying his word, it is in you. And when you and when you are confronted with people who are presenting error, no matter how collegiate or intellectual it may sound, they are no match for you.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Amen, brother. No, match.

SPEAKER_08 30:44

You need to know that. You need to know that. And God will bring you that recall, but you need to put those words in your heart and let it be buried in your soul and water it and cultivate it daily.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

You can stand in a room with a hundred heretics, and then you have yourself in the word of God, and it will stand all day long.

SPEAKER_08 31:03

All day, all day long. Glory to God. Candy and then Mariah.

SPEAKER_09 31:09

I just was gonna comment on what was being said because it makes me go back to that's exactly why we who are in Christ, he tells us that we will suffer for his namesake because he was a threat.

unknown 31:23

Right.

SPEAKER_09 31:24

And it makes me think of what we say to people when when they become a child of God, you know, where we tell them the enemy is going to try to convince you to turn away from God because you are a threat to his kingdom, this worldly kingdom.

SPEAKER_07 31:42

Right.

SPEAKER_09 31:42

So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:44

Amen, sister. Mariah, tell us something.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

So when you were talking, it made me think about how they they would begin to say things to Christ, like um, for he's like, Well, what good what good works are you stoning me for? Not a good work, but thou being a mere man maketh thyself equal to God. And it almost is as though Elifast is trying to say that he is in some way, shape, or form making himself equal to God.

SPEAKER_07 32:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 32:19

Yes. Yes, that's exactly what's happening here. Pat, go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_05 32:29

Okay, so um you're married to a psychologist, right, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_08 32:34

I am. And I and I have to I'm aware of it every day, too. That's my mental right now.

SPEAKER_05 32:42

Yeah. Well, let's get into these guys' heads a little bit. I've got a question for you.

SPEAKER_08 32:46

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Do these friends do these friends even want Job to be innocent?

SPEAKER_08 32:54

I don't think they do. I don't think they do.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Can I comment on that? I'm sorry, not Pat. Oh my God. Sorry, go ahead, go ahead and finish.

SPEAKER_08 33:04

Well, I'll get you, Rodney.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Go ahead, Pat, you finish? Yeah, I just wanted to raise that question. All right, go ahead, Rodney. Go ahead and answer it.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Okay, so all right, when we first asked us, it was like, and I'm not, I'm not gonna get too personal my situation, but it's kind of like, you know, because I don't want to seem that I was sinless, but it makes me bring it home to me because as I stated, all I was trying to do was just take care of my daughter, right? Now, I haven't, we haven't gotten a job so I can see the finisher, but um, you know, I talked to a coworker and they they finished it for me, so I'm kind of like so eager. But my point is I really, I didn't perform any real sense. So like Pat is saying, you know, did they not want him to be sinless? And it's like no matter what, because of what occurred, you would think something, I had to have did something, especially for the value, you know, for the level of what occurred, you know. So I'm kind of thinking like, well, and you already said it, it was just a crazy, it's not a reality, but Alifast is thinking like, well, you know, you're gonna be, if God saves you, you're gonna be powerful, more powerful than him. And I'm like, well, that's where I'm stuck at with mustard trees, because I'm like, what, what, I mean, I'm I'm I know that I'll never be powerful and God that would never be my reality ever, if it didn't happen or if it did happen, but I get stuck, and I guess that's where the trauma and all that crap comes in. But it's like, well, he he blessed me by giving me my life, you know, but not to take it serious this time, but I guess I didn't need to do that. If you want to take care of your daughter, Rodney, just ask me. I'll make it work, you know. And so that's where I land with Job. And I kind of said this earlier, you know, Job is my saving story because it's and this is why it's kind of making sense. I didn't want to say that earlier because I'm like, well, dang, you can't possibly be thinking that Job is gonna be more powerful than the Lord, but you said it, you know, so yep.

SPEAKER_07 35:10

Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Okay, I I'm just raising my hand so much because I want to make try to make this make the most sense to me. Well, probably they're what they're saying is that like what with the scripture that I just brought up, like God is punishing you because you're doing so good. Right?

SPEAKER_07 35:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Is is that what ultimately they're saying? That's what they're saying.

SPEAKER_08 35:37

That's that's that's what they're saying that Job thinks.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah, you think that God is punishing you because you're doing so good, yet you make yourself some type of equal with God that he should be in fear of you.

SPEAKER_08 35:51

Right, yes. Okay, that's what's happening here. That's what's happening here. That's what that's what this that's what they're saying. They're they're telling Job basically, the gall, the unmitigated galls. That's what they're saying. And uh, because here's what they want to do. They're trying to get Job to think right in their mind. They're trying to get Job to think in alignment with them, which is Job, you need to make the conclusion that we have concluded for you, which is that you are having these problems. You have been you have been fraught with calamity and weighed down by these burdens of affliction because of your sin. You're guilty. Because if if you don't accept this case, then we must conclude that you think you pose some kind of threat to God by your righteous and holiness. So much so because we see that what's happened to you, we see what's happening to you, and the reason why it's happening to you is either what we said, or it's easy because, or, or it's because you pose some kind of threat to God. That's what he and that's that's what he's concluding. So your your assessment is 100% correct. That's this is what he's saying, and there's probably more to it than that.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Elifaz really got on my nerves with this verse.

SPEAKER_08 37:12

Who?

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Elifaz. This is just horrible.

Final Question For Vanessa

SPEAKER_08 37:15

Yep, for sure. Now, Vanessa, I want to ask you a question. I want you to address the question that Paul, that Paul, that Pat asked when he when he says, when he said, Do they even want Job to be innocent? Now, I believe that they do not. But Sister Vanessa, uh, what's your what's your opinion about Job's friends in general? What's your opinion about Pat's question? Do they even want him to be innocent? And what's your view of his friends, you know, uh, in general?