LIVE: "God, Depart From Us!" (Job 22:10-24), Part 1/5

Eliphaz looks at Job’s pain and decides it must be a confession waiting to happen. We pick up in Job 22:7–14, where Job’s friend stops acting like a comforter and starts acting like a prosecutor, accusing Job of neglecting the thirsty, the hungry, widows, and the fatherless. The language is vivid: snares, fear, darkness, and floods. But the logic underneath is the real problem, because it turns suffering into “evidence” and replaces compassion with a verdict.

From there, we dig into what Eliphaz claims about God’s providence. He argues as if Job believes God is too far away to see through the clouds, and we talk about why people still fall into that thinking today. That leads us straight into deism, the watchmaker view of God that says the Creator winds up the world and steps back. We explain why Christians have to reject deism at every turn, even when it shows up in everyday “free will” talk that makes God sound reactive instead of sovereign.

We also slow down and make it practical: we talk about the private Christian life, why private study and prayer shape everything public, and what faithful friendship should look like when someone is crushed by grief. If you care about the Book of Job, Christian theology, God’s sovereignty, and wise counsel in suffering, this conversation will sharpen your instincts. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves Job, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Reading Job 22:7–10

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Job chapter 22. And I'm begin reading at verse 7. Job verse 20, or chapter 22, verse 7. It says here. Eliphaz says, You have not given water to the weary to drink. You have withhold withheld bread from the hungry. As for the mighty, he had the earth, and the honorable man dwelt in it. You have sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless, excuse me, have been broken. So this is where we ended last night, where Eliphaz is telling Job, basically, that he's a bad guy. He's committed sins of omission, he has committed sins of commission against those who are the more feeble and weak in terms of their status and position. And in the middle of all this, he says in verse 8, before the mighty men, he had the earth, and the honorable men dwelt in it. In other words, they were treated with favor, and they were retreated with respectability, and they were treated with dignity. But those who were lesser people in their eyes, they are accusing Job of neglecting. And as Sister Mariah pointed out last night in chapter 4 of the book of Job, she reminded us last night that what they had said about Job was exactly the opposite. They acknowledged that Job did all these great things. And now, in verse 7 through 9 of Job 22, they paint a different picture, which means that they were not telling the truth either before or they're not telling the truth now, and we know they're not telling the truth now as it pertains to Job. So again, in verses 7 through 9, they are accusing Job of not helping the downtrodden and the infirm or the weak and showing favor to the mighty man. And so in verse 10, it begins by Eliphaz saying, Because of these things, he says, Therefore, Job, snares are round about you, and sudden fear troubles you or darkness that you cannot see, and the abundance of waters cover thee. The snares are round about thee, sudden fear troubles you, or darkness that you cannot see, and abundance of the waters cover you. So now what he's saying is that that from these alleged sins that we see have been leveled against Job in verses 7 through 9, these alleged sins, Eliphaz now draws a conclusion about Job's present sufferings. And they describe his afflictions as being snares, fears, darkness, and overwhelming floods. And all of these are images and always are usually depicted in the scriptures as images of distress, of distress, of calamity, of confusion, of troublesome times. And these are interpreted by Eliphaz as divine judgments. And so he's accusing Job of suffering divine judgments because of how they describe Job as behaving in verses 7 through 9. And so again, these are interpreted as divine judgments, answering to oppression and cruelty. They accuse Job of oppression and cruelty, and then they describe the results of that. Again, we know this is not true as it pertains to Job. And what they're saying is that Job's trouble and Job's afflictions, they are not seen as accidental, but they are seen as a more or less a just recompense of reward that's coming from God. God is basically giving Job what he deserves. And so, and what he deserves for his wickedness. And this is what they are accusing him of. And so the darkness here, when it says, here that or darkness that you cannot see, and the abundance of waters that cover thee, the darkness signifies the outward calamity and Job's inward frustration, and Job's inward sort of um, you know, in internal chaos going on in Job's heart, his sinful chaos. And they describe it in such a way that Job can't seem to find his way. It says, or darkness, so that you cannot see. So they're telling Job that he doesn't have the spiritual illumination. It's been covered up by darkness, and now he can no longer see. And this is what he's talking about. And so this Job's suffering, according to Eliphaz, is framed as the natural outcropping or the natural fruit of his unrighteous, undignified, sinful ways. It's harsh language, it's very, very harsh language. In verses 12 through 14 of Job 22, Eliphaz continues, and he says this to Job. He says, Is not God in the height of the heaven? And behold the height of the stars, how high they are. And you say, How does God know? How can he judge, or can he judge through the dark cloud? Thick clouds are a covering to him that he sees not. And he walks in the circuit of heaven. So now he's going after Job's understanding of God, and he's accusing Job of not understanding God's providence. He's accusing Job of this, the one who spoke so much about God's providence, and the one who has made many um truthful remarks as pertains to God's sovereignty and God's sovereignty in his providence. So what Eliphaz is saying now is that men like you, Job, who are afflicted, you are entertaining low thoughts, very low thoughts, of God's providence. As if God were so far away or so veiled that he doesn't take notice of the affairs that go on in the world with men. He's telling Job, you don't understand God's providence. You are behaving as if God can't see. You are acting as if he's so far away, or that he is covered and veiled in heaven by the by dark clouds that he can't see your sin. And yet, as true as it is, this wasn't applied to Job. But brothers and sisters, it is definitely something that we should be very much aware about, because so many people they believe that there may be a God. But they believe that if there is a God, he is certainly not involved in the providence of his creation. And see, this is the very this is the very thing that we talk about often when we talk about the free will of man. That it so the idea of man and his free will is that man can do whatever he wants because God is not paying attention or andor God has left it to your own devices to determine the outcomes that God will impose based on your actions. In other words, that God is responding to you and not the other way around. And so this is what Eliphaz is pointing out. Speaking again, true things, they just are not applicable to Job. And so what he's pointing out is that God's greatness, Job may be acknowledging. He may acknowledge uh God's uh greatness, but he doesn't understand how God's greatness affects him. And he doesn't, or he doesn't think that God's greatness uh affects him. And so the idea that is being conveyed here is that God he's saying that Job, you are acting as if God is so exalted, is so exalted, that he has no awareness of what's going on. In other words, he's telling Job, you are acting as though God doesn't see you. He doesn't see what you're doing, he doesn't see your sin. This is what he's sort of acting like, and so and so he's acting like he's getting away with something, or he's not recognizing the the uh the involvement that God has in his creatures. Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

My question is this um you're saying that Eliphaz in this, you know, is saying that Job is acting like um like God is unaware of what he's doing, yet in all, you know, the passages before, these guys are all telling Job that he is um this is his punishment for his sin. Right. And it it just seems like they keep contradicting themselves back and forth in one in one. I don't know whether it's I mean, do you do you think at this point it's they're just grasping to get some sort of reaction from Job because they are literally in one breath saying, Well, you're being punished for this, Job, and you're you know, just and and then you know, and then and then we're hearing him say this in these passages. It's just sort of confusing. Like, what what is the thing here? Is is he just like are they just trying to get a reaction from him at this point?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

They're trying to get a they're trying to get a reaction from Job that is consistent with their version of what's going on with him. They need they want him to embrace their assessment of him. So, so when they when they talk when they when they're saying that Job doesn't understand God's providence, they are telling Job, you are so high on your own horse, you can't deter, you can't tell that what's happening to you is the result of God's judgment. If you could see the truth, you would know that you are suffering affliction because you have gone against God. You see what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah, and just Job last time and the just the last chapter, Job finishes with calling them that saying nothing that comes out of their mouth is true. They're just full of lies. Right. So he did basically stand up for himself, and that's not enough for these guys, I guess, huh?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

No, no, it's not. It's not. And and and they they will certainly not take his word for you. And so in their minds, and see, and the thing is, they're telling Job, they're telling Job, if you knew who God was and you really understood his sovereignty, like you say you do, and if you really understood his providence, you would understand that what we're saying about you, Job, is true, which is that your afflictions are the evidence of your inward sin and your and your what and whatever sin you're hiding. This is what they're saying. So they're telling him, you don't understand God, because if you did understand God, you would hear, you would believe what we're telling you. Isn't this like what we hear what we deal with so much with people who oppose the truth?

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Oh man, yeah. Yeah. This is what happens.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

They always people are always telling you that if you don't believe things or understand things in the Bible the way they do, then you don't understand God. It never occurs to them that maybe they don't understand God. Never occurs to them.

The Weight Of Private Devotion

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Thank you. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

You know, and so and here's the thing. This is another reason why I'm always so adamant about our our individual study in the word of God. See, we need to be uh we we I I really I would argue this. We sometimes Christians, we can spend so much time in public displays of Christian involvement, but what we don't realize is how important the private Christian is. And I'm gonna tell you something. Your private Christian experience, your private relationship with God, and I mean not prayer, study, meditation, all these things, believe me when I tell you this, these things have more value, the private worship has more value in your Christian walk than all of that public stuff that we do. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be involved in the public affairs of Christianity. I'm not suggesting that. But what I'm saying is that there needs to at least be a balance. Because the the private Christian, the one who is genuinely walking with the Lord in that private way, this is where the real Christianity of you, your personal Christianity, this is where it really resides in those private areas. How do you spend your day when you're not involved in these lives and making these posts and whatever? And this goes for me too. It goes for all of us. What I'm trying to stress is that that private aspect, and see, these guys aren't giving, they're not giving Job any credit for anything because if they were concerned about Job's soul, they would be focusing on Job, what is your private worship life like? What has that been like? How can we help you get on track with that? Forget these outward things. We want to make sure that everything is okay with your soul. And that's where we want to start. And if you and if you are feeling downcast, what can we do to uplift you so that you can withstand these external pressures that you're going through? But make no mistake about it, the private Christian that determines what your real Christianity is really about when you when you're outside in public. Your private Christianity determines what your public Christianity will be like. Um, who had Anna? Brother Pat, go ahead. And then Meg. I'm sorry, I missed you, Meg, but Pat, go ahead and get Meg.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Yeah, they're not even being uh basic friends. Like I mean, even unbelievers, when they see their friend is on, you know, is getting kicked on the ground, you what do you do? You go over to their house, hey man, um, how do we fix this? What can I do to help? Right? Yep, and uh they're not even on that level. You know, I I kind of feel I hate to be too hard on these guys, but uh man, he could have uh they're sure not. Let me just say this they're not being good friends right now.

Friends Who Fail The Afflicted

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Let's put it that way. Right, right. See, what they're suggesting, what they're suggesting is that Job thinks that his sins are hidden from God. They're saying, you, Job, you think God is so far away that he's so far above the stars and so far above the dark clouds. And when he says so far above the dark clouds, the idea is that that he's so far away from the dark clouds that he can't even see through the dark clouds to see through you, to see to you, Job. And they're accusing Job of looking at God that way, so that he can't see your sin. So this is the reason why they're saying, they're saying, you're justifying yourself because you think God doesn't see. So now they're trying to tell him something about his private, his private worship. They're trying to tell him how he understands God. They never even asked him how he understands God. They made, they make, they, they're making an assumption on his faithfulness or the lack thereof based on his affliction. It's not even it doesn't even make sense, but this is what they do. But it is very much a carnal perspective, a worldly perspective to see how why this is happening, you know, and so this is what he has to deal with. Sister May, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

I was just saying, I was gonna add to what Lisa said in the in the fact of just Ellie Faz's speeches, right? So remembering like the in the beginning when all of his friends gathered together, they were first silent, so they never said anything. Then when they get to the first set of speeches and all of them are speaking, it's now okay, I'm gonna give you general speech, right? I'm gonna tell you what's going on. Some of them, like Bill Dad, all of them, my personal experiences. This is the general information. Now I'm gonna go deeper, I'm gonna get sharper, I'm gonna confront you a little bit more. I'm gonna go into you know the retributive theology on a different level. So I'm gonna assume you're guilty. At first, I was just telling you some things. Now I'm gonna assume you're guilty. Then I'm gonna build my case, and now I'm going to judge you. So the way that this is progressing through the entire thing, it's like Job is now in judgment by his friends, and he is absolutely in their eyes 100% guilty. He is wicked and he is a sinner. But see, it didn't start that way, right? Because I felt like even in the silence, it's like it started at complete silence. But as we're looking at it, it's slowly building up to where now he's just playing wicked. You see?

Deism Versus God’s Providence

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Absolutely. Absolutely. It is, and that's but that's exactly what it, that's exactly what's happening. That's a good assessment. I mean, that's that's truly what happened. The intensity of the, you know, because they start off kind of light, but even then it was sort of like crushing. But but you're right. It continues to build on this crescendo until they get to the part where they're right now going like, Phil, you know, let's get this cut let's get to brass taxes. You don't give water to the thirsty, you don't give food to the hungry, you you you you treat the widows bad and you break the arms of the fatherless. I mean, and then and then you you help and benefit and bless and bring favor to the wealthy and the powerful like yourself. You know, you exploit everyone else, you know, and to to enrich yourselves and other people like you. And so, and and and it's gonna get even worse. I mean, it really does. And and so this, but this idea that he's talking about right now, he's going like, listen, he's addressing a uh he's addressing a perspective. Eli Faz is a is addressing a perspective against Job that is what the world has in general, which is that they believe that God is so far removed. Uh, and and Pat, you may remember that the theological term. I can't remember what it is. Any of you may remember, I just can't remember what it is. But what it is, it's a term where it it says, where it's and it's an old school uh term, and I'm just drawing a blank. But what is what it means is that God sets the world in motion and then takes his hands off and steps back. And I can't remember the term, the theological term for it. Um but the whole idea is that God is not involved in his creation. He doesn't, he doesn't get in the way, he doesn't um uh involve himself. He just he waits to see what you're gonna do and then responds with an outcome to that. And that cannot possibly be true. Um, God is a very sovereign God, and God is involved in his creation, and that's where his sovereignty resides in his involvement over his creation. His providence is how he governs. He's not hands off. He's not hands off. He doesn't tell you to pull up your bootstraps, he tells you that I'm coming to save you, or if you're not one of those who are among the saved and the elected of God, he's like, I'm coming to handle my business with you as well. Is it deism? Deism. It's like I think it's yeah, I think it's deism. Where is it's kind of like yeah, yeah, I think it is deism, where God just

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Creates the universe, sets the laws in motion, and he doesn't intervene in human efforts anymore.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

It's deism. That's what it is. It's deism. Got me searching. No, good. I'm glad you did. Because I couldn't think of the word. I'm drawing a total blank, but that's what it is. Deism is that's what that is. That's like God sets it in motion and it steps back and then lets things go as they as they however they turn out. Brother Pat says it again, in an impersonal God, a God who's not involved. But that term is deism. So, you know, everybody try to remember that word because it's a good one, because somebody might throw that out at you and talk about it like they're telling you something deep and heavy, but that's all it means. That God, after He's created, He created, He left the earth on its own to let things roll out the way that um the way that they the way that man's will determines.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Can I read a couple points about deism so we can learn about it? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

No, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

So the key points in deism is it says God is like a watchmaker. He builds the watch, winds it up, and then let it run lets it run on its own. It rejects ongoing providence, miracles, or special revelation. Morality and order exist, but are discerned through reason, not scripture. Wow. That's interesting.

Open Theism And Rejecting Sovereignty

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah. And that's what that is is deism. That's exactly what it is. And so, and so in Christianity, Christians must be against that and must reject it at every turn, must flatly reject deism at every turn. And here's the thing you may hear it, and the person you may hear it from may not use the term, but they will express the belief that that term defines. So hopefully now, when you hear people address these things, but not using the term, now you know what it is. And you can tell somebody that what you're describing is deism. And this is what people when this is what happens with so many people who are saying, where is the evidence of his of his return? Where is God doing this? God, in other words, God is not involved. He's not involved. He's he puts you here to be good, so be good, and then good will happen to you, or whatever. God's not involved. It's up to you. And so this is predominantly, this is a predominant view that so many people who are Christian have about God, and it's sad. It's sad. But this is the ultimate rejection of God's sovereignty. Deism is the exact opposite of sovereignty. So when you hear people talking about, well, my salvation is based on my decision, this is in effect deism. It's up to me. God has stepped away. You hear people say that Christ, when he died on the cross, he and he, or when he lived on earth, he was just here to be an example. An example for us to follow. It wasn't just that. No, Christ came here to die to save from sin. He didn't come here to set things in motion so that men might develop an appetite so that they might want to be like him. And so we need to understand that distinction. We need to understand that there is no aspect of there's no aspect of our existence where God is not sovereignly 100% in control by his own design. All outcomes that take place in the world are divinely orchestrated by his heavenly decree.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Everything. I heard an open theist today say that God learns in in time that He He doesn't know the future. And so He operates because He, although he knows the future, in time, future hasn't came yet. So he's kind of just going with the times.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

This is like I get accused a lot of using the word stupid. I really do. Because I can't help, I can't help I don't know what other I don't know a better word to use. Because anything less is flattering when somebody says something like that, Meg. So all I can do is say it's stupid. Now, would it be stupid for somebody who's not a Christian? No. But when Christians or people who call this a Christian talk like this, I don't know a better word, but I'm I'm trying to resist the urge to use that word.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Say it it's stupid.

unknown 26:54

I know.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

We were all in the live, me, Mariah, Nathan, Pat.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, I've talked to that guy before. I've got another word, though, that's not stupid. It's rebellion. Yeah. Um, because the heart of it really, the stupidity is just a symptom of what's going on underneath. Right. It just shows that people will go to no ends to reject the sovereignty of God. They will embrace every heresy under the sun. How many times have we seen people who uh object to Calvinism and they what do they do? They embrace Pelagianism. They come in here with all sorts of heresies. They're willing to link arms with every heretic they can find, as long as it's against the sovereignty of God.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

And their pinky toes on the throne.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Exactly exactly. You know, it's really uh it's really mind-boggling. Candy, you were gonna say something, sister. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I said, who we we