LIVE: "God, Depart From Us!" (Job 22:10-24), Part 3/5

Watching someone fall apart can trigger a dangerous reflex: we explain their pain by accusing their heart. That’s exactly what happens as we dig into Job 22, where Eliphaz describes wicked people whose houses are filled with good things and then claims “the righteous” are glad when those people fall. The words sound spiritual, even convincing, but the application is aimed like an arrow at the wrong target: Job, a suffering believer who does not deserve the verdict his friends are handing down.

We walk through what that “gladness” and “laughter” could mean, including the argument for holy vindication versus the far darker reading of mockery and scorn. Along the way we connect the passage to Proverbs 1 and talk about a hard truth for Christians: you can speak accurate Bible doctrine and still misuse Scripture by stripping it from context. That’s when “truth” becomes a tool for one-upmanship, and it stops sounding like pastoral care and starts feeling like spiritual bullying.

Then we shift to Eliphaz’s call to repentance, which is a solid gospel message in the abstract, but becomes toxic when it’s prescribed to a faithful sufferer. We also bring in Jesus’ warning about the Tower of Siloam to challenge blame-based theology and to remind ourselves that suffering is not a simple sin meter. If you care about biblical interpretation, Christian discernment, and how to counsel people without crushing them, this conversation will hit home. Subscribe, share this with a friend who leads or counsels others, and leave a review. What’s the difference between correction and condemnation in your experience?

Transcript

Opening And The Wicked’s Prosperity

SPEAKER_03 0:00

We're gonna talk about that. So depart from us and what can the Almighty do for them? I I like like this is one of those things that I just find like when you read it, it's just like, how can you you know have this mindset and yet it is so true? So verse 18 through 20, L. Foss says, he talks about the wicked who suffered because of their sin. And he brings up the historical periods, the old, the old way where wicked men have trodden and their outcome. And then he goes in to say, yet God filled their houses with good things. In other words, even though they were wicked, they were unthankful. Because God, even in spite of how they were, he filled their houses with good things. Like Job. He was, he was, he had good things, he had stuff, he had family, he had homes, he had businesses. And so, and so Elipha says here, in spite of this, God filled your houses, Job, with good things. But the counsel of the wicked is far from you. Now listen to this, because I'm gonna ask a couple people, I'm gonna call, I'm gonna pick two of you, and I'm gonna ask you what you think this means. So so far, yet God filled their houses with good things, the wicked. But the counsel of the wicked is far from me. From them. And then he says here, and this is this is where I'm gonna ask the question the righteous see this and are glad, and the innocent laugh them to scorn. So let me ask Sister Lisa, and I'm gonna ask Sister Vanessa, Lisa first, what do you think he means when he says that when the wicked um who have received all these good things, and the counsel of wicked is far from them, what do you think he means when he says, But the righteous see this and are glad, and the innoph the innocent laugh them to scorn? What do you think he's saying, and who do you think he who do you think is being referenced by the righteous who see it?

SPEAKER_05 2:33

Ooh, the righteous see it and are glad.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

And the innocent laugh them to scorn.

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Oh my gosh, Jonathan. Eliphaz is talking, yet they feel he fills he filled their houses with good things. The Lord filled the wicked houses with good things, but the counsel of the wicked is far from me.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Right. That's what the wicked say, right? That's what they that's what they say.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

They don't think they're being wicked.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Right.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

They don't think that, but the righteous see it and are glad, and the innocent one mocks at them. Well, the I I would say he's saying the righteous he's he thinks himself to be righteous, Eliphaz.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

Right.

Group Reads Eliphaz Against Job

SPEAKER_05 3:28

So he's he's he's saying that's why he is mocking Job. He's accusing Job, and he's so he's he's saying it not in a way that that's why I'm mocking you, Job, because I know you're wicked and I'm the innocent one here. Um is that he's so he's sort of doing like his old ways, talking kind of at Job, not directing it to to him, but he's saying, that's why I am mocking you. He's saying he's he's the innocent one.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Yeah, these are the two, these are the characters. These are the characters. Vanessa, you want to help out here?

SPEAKER_06 4:10

Yes, please. I'm trying, but I can't figure it out either. I'm not even correct. The only thing I can see on there is like the righteous like it.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 4:28

But the innocent, they scorn them for they're not I can't even see the righteous, the righteous ones, the righteous and the innocent are essentially the same.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

You know, so so what he's saying is what he's what he's saying is that, you know, so because the reality is he's speaking in these in these terms. Um let me let me before I say go ahead, Rodney, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Sorry, we're in 18, just to double-check, right? We're in 18? 22, 18?

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Okay. Um, God, I did take some notes earlier. Um blessings and approvals are not the same thing, you know? Blessings and approvals. Blessing and approval, and uh like from what I heard you guys say, it's like the the righteous are seeking approval by No, no. You know, the outer, the outer. No, never mind. Okay. I'll I missed it. Okay, I'll be quiet. No, I have it pulled up on my phone. I'm not in my house.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

I'm gonna keep picking on you, Rodney.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

Okay. Keep pruning me. I need it, I need it, I need it.

Two Readings Of The Laughter

Proverbs And Misused Wisdom

SPEAKER_03 5:42

I'm gonna keep saying, I'm gonna keep getting on your case. All right. So what he's saying is that what he's saying is that when the wicked, when the wicked fall, basically, the righteous who are the innocent, they see it and are glad, and they laugh them to scorn. Now, you can take this two ways, and I'm not really sure which way I I know the way I favor, but um it's also been taken another way. So I'll put it, I'll put it to you this way. When it says that the wicked uh, you know, they go through this downfall, which they're obviously accusing Job of this, right? And so they they they accuse Job of being this wicked and once and somebody who once had all these good things, which is true about Job. So you know he's talking about Job. That's the whole point. And then he says, but when you when your down, when your downfall comes, which they're perceiving it has, right? Job has lost everything. His health, his wife, everything. So then Eliphaz is saying that the righteous, which he equates with being himself, excuse me, himself, as um Nathan and Lisa are saying. They Eliphaz sees himself as among the righteous who are glad when they see what happened to Job. He's saying that not only are we glad, but we laugh you to scorn. Now, again, he's speaking in this very indirect way. But this is what he's saying, this is what he's implying. You know, now here's what I meant about the two different sides. There's one camp that says that this doesn't mean laughter and gladness in a sense of ha ha ha ha ha, you know, this is this would happen to you. Um which is one s which is one camp. The other camp that history, historical interpreters have come up with is that it means the kind of gladness and and happiness when the righteous who are godly see this and are glad that God is showing them judgment. You know what I mean? Like, for instance, when we when we when Christ comes back and when he judges and condemns the wicked, then we are vindicated and we're happy because of that vindication. So it's a it's a so it's uh it's a holy gladness and a and a holy laughter. I think that either way um it could go. I have a tendency to believe that if um scorn wasn't used, I would like to favor the other view, which is that it's just a holy gladness because that we've been vindicated. But I have a tendency to believe this is that evil kind of laugh, like, yeah, you got you got yours, you got what's coming to you. So I'm in that camp. Um, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who opposed that view. I would, I would be, I would, people would make good arguments and I wouldn't fight it because it's not uh one that I would probably win, and it's not one that I would probably lose, depending on that's where it's different. But I do think it's mockery. I do think it's mockery, and I do think he's putting himself in that place, him and his friends. Like, like we see this happening to you, Job, and we think it's funny. They didn't say that like directly, but that's what they're saying. Uh, two witnesses, and then Lisa.

SPEAKER_08 9:37

Man, this really throws me off because if I didn't know that God will reprove these man, uh I will really think that they're speaking the truth, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because yesterday they were judging Job and they were recalling pretty much uh Isaiah 58. And I was trying to look for it right now, and uh thank God I found that this this is how it sounds, right? Now, this is wisdom, which uh speaking, which I'm pretty sure they think that they're wise, right? So they're placing themselves in this position. I stretch out my hand and no one paid attention. This is Proverbs 1, 24, 25, right? I stretch out my hand and no one paid attention, and you neglect neglected all my counsel and were not willing to accept my reproof, right? This is what they're doing to Joe, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Right.

SPEAKER_08 10:32

And then he says, I will also laugh at your disaster, I will mock when your dread comes. When your dread comes like a storm, right? And then he goes to describe more, right? But it's it just really throws me off because they are speaking words that are spirit and that they are truth. But in a way, they're no wonder why God uh rebuked them, right? Because they're they're me misusing their the word. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Amen, brother. You gotta come up here more often. I like that. I love it. I love it. Um, who was next? It was uh Sister Lisa.

Truth Out Of Context Today

SPEAKER_05 11:12

Well, I was gonna say, I agree with you, Jonathan, uh, because of the way this book is going, but two witnesses blew me out of the water. This is this is um exactly what we see happening today with like the law keepers, for instance. They read scripture and the words they speak are true, but it's completely out of context. These guys um are using these things against Job, and it cracks me up that again they go back, Eliphaz goes back to his, it's such a cowardly way. It's like, you know, Job was telling him, if you have something to say, say it. Right. You know, but they still they do it in a way that's um they they speak truth, but it's completely out of context with Job. So I I this is so good. This is really good. And I loved what uh two witnesses just said. That's so good.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Yeah, that was good, that was good. That was really good. I like that. Sister Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Um, just another jab because he says, yet he filled their houses with good things. And mind you, Job is trying to counsel them and and tell them the truth. And he says, but the the advice of the wicked is far from me. He's saying he's not gonna hear anything that it is that Job is saying. I I'm not, because the right I am righteous and I see it clearly with my own eyes, you know. Are my eyes deceiving me, Joe?

Guard Your Heart From Judging

Handle Scripture With Care

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Exactly. But see, you know, the wicked people, the sinners, like we all were at once before, you know, before we were saved, everything was driven by by the senses. Everything was driven by the senses. You know, you it wasn't based on rationale, it wasn't based on an inward, an inwardly driven uh perspective. It was purely sensual. What I see. You know, and we don't, we we, you know, and and the fact that he's saying that, you know, we see you, we see this, and we're glad, and then we laugh. How can you, how can you come all this way where there was an expectation for you to mourn with one who was in mourning, and then now you reveal that this is what your real personality is like. This is what your real, this is what you're really about. Looking for an opportunity to ridicule and mock. You know, now the only condition that warranted their mockery and their scorning and their laughing, the only condition that brought that on was Job not agreeing with their assessment of him. And they are trying to tell Job what is in his heart. They're telling him, we know what's in your heart based on what we see. Not by what we know, not by what we gathered from you, not from what we heard from your words. We didn't even ask you. Everything that we see that has happened to you is telling us all we need to know. And this is wicked, brethren. This is wicked, and this is something that is so easy for us to fall into. And we have to really guard our hearts from doing this because we find ourselves um in a place where we can be crushing a really God-believing, God-loving soul. We have to really be careful that we're not, that we're not um tearing people down unjustly and uh without warrant. So uh, you know, if you're if you bring something to somebody's attention and they agree, that's one thing. But if they don't, then you have to step back and go, okay, well, maybe I got it wrong. Maybe I got it wrong. What can I do to help you? What can I do? Forgive me if I if I made the wrong conclusion. And we're we're allowed to do that. We're allowed to correct ourselves. And if the other brother loves us as much as we love them, they will understand that we are frail and fragile as well, and we can make that mistake. So let's work on this together and figure out how we can solve this issue. So many people are so unwilling to address these things primarily because they don't like anybody to know their business or whatever. Believe me, let me tell you something. If you're going through a hard one, a tough one, don't keep it to yourself. That's the worst thing you can do. It leads to flagrancy in sin. That's what it's going to go to. Always. There are rarely any exceptions. When you go through something that's really tough and really hard, don't stand out there, excuse me, don't be out there alone on your own. You know, and and God willing, don't be the kind of person that is like these men and how they used to treat Job. I mean, and how they treated Job. Rodney, what a great confession, brother. And I and I agree with you, me too. I've done this. I've done this. And when you break, when you crush somebody, it makes you extra fearful about doing it again. And then you can have this issue where it's like, oh, I got to, but I don't want to. I have to, but I can't. You know, and this is where discernment comes in. This is where discernment comes in. And just and a true discernment that that that can be established and that can be fomented by a person will always start with its root, which is a genuine love for the person you're communicating with. And these guys don't seem like they love Job. That's not the that's not the vibe I'm getting. And I'm sure all of us agree. That's not the vibe none of us have gotten since we've been reading this book. And it's tough. It's tough. Now notice it goes on, and he says, he says, the righteous see it and are glad, and the innocent laugh them to scorn. Whereas our substance is not cut down, but the remnant of them, but the remnant of them the fire consumes. So Eliphaz is like, he's distancing himself from their counsel, rejecting both of their principles and their practices. The righteous, observing their downfall, acknowledge God's justice and they take comfort and they take comfort in it. And like I said, some people don't think that the comfort is coming from a cruel place. I think it is. But I said there's two camps. Some camps think they're being cruel. I'm in that camp. Other camps say, no, they're just taking, uh, they're just rejecting both of these principles and their practices. I think it's the cruelty part, but you know, that's neither here nor there. But I think that in the end, the overall doctrine is clear and it's understood. So this is something that I would challenge any of you who are interested to examine more carefully, and you may come up with a different perspective that may be it may be a convincing argument for a different view. So, and I'd be open to hear that because this is one of those verses, as I have had in the past, where is a little confusing for me. Um in this case, I know the two principal sides and I know where my leanings are, but I'm open to hear a strong argument on the other side. So if anybody wants to take that, that takes me to task on that, I'd be definitely open to hear it offline or in one of the lives because I like hearing things that are true that I didn't understand or grasp in the past. But notice this one this one last part again. Whereas our substance is not cut down, but the remnant of them, the fire, consumes, the destruction of the wicked becomes a warning and a confirmation that righteous judgment stands firm. And these are the things that we have to always remember. Because, like two witnesses is saying, if you listen to these guys, they sound like they're telling the truth. And brother, they are saying the truth, but their problem is it's not relevant to Job. It's a misappropriated truth. And this is what we all need to be cognizant of in our witnesses, in our witness and in our testimony to the world about the gospel. You know, we have to be careful and make sure that when we go out there and we say something, that we're telling the truth. A lot of Christians like to run, like to run uh the seat of their pants. But you got to be spiritually equipped, and that means you have to be able to handle the word of God honestly and sincerely and truthfully. And we don't get brownie points for effort if it's wrong. So it needs to be right. We need to strive to be correct. And if you can't be corrected, if you're not certain about being correct, then silence is the best option and stick to what you know. But get it right. And that's and that's what we need to do. And I uh and one reason why I'm always saying this, one reason why I'm always saying this is because I know what it feels like to be so certain about something and to find out I couldn't have been more wrong in my early days as a Christian, first three three years. Because you got that fire in your bones when you first become saved. And it's funny, every newborn Christian suddenly believes they are scholars, and they're like babies running around puking on everybody. That's what it's like. That's what I was like when I was a young Christian, and so we have to be careful of ourselves. Two witnesses.

Jesus And The Tower Of Siloam

SPEAKER_08 21:12

Yeah, I do I do agree with everything that you just said, and you know what this is? This is what Jesus said. Uh, these people came because I guess some pillars fell upon some Jews or something. Oh, yeah, you know, and and he tells them, unless you repent, you like what likewise will perish. Because what he was telling them is uh the question was do you do you think that these people were greater sinners because this happened to them? And Jesus says, Do not think this way, right? But he came and to change to change their minds. But I think this is exactly what's happening. They think that if uh God judges in this manner.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

That's right, brother. That's so right. It was the uh what the Tower of Siloem, I think it was. The Tower of Siloam?

SPEAKER_08 22:09

Yes, that that yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that was it. So anybody else before I move on to verse 21? Anything else? Anybody want to add? Candy, you want anything you want to add? Meg? Okay. Meg, anything you want to add?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Nope. I would just like to add a coke to that.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Well, I just put it in the comments what I'd say to that is by them, you know, making these judgments, they're actually judging God. They're saying that God does this for these reasons. And just like two witnesses just said, it just popped into my head when he brought up the the pillars falling on the on the Jews. That he's telling them, don't do that. I mean, basically, they've been judging God the whole time. All these people that make these kind of judgments. So that's a great um, that's kind of a great revelation for me right at this moment because I didn't considered that they're actually making a judgment about how God works, you know? So that's all yep.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

No worries. Anyone else? Anybody want to end?

SPEAKER_07 23:31

Are we talking about 19 and 20? Or yeah, 19.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah, yeah, sure. Whatever you whatever's on your mind.

SPEAKER_07 23:41

It just kind of, I don't know. It's like it's like they're well, never mind, because we already said it, so never mind. Never mind. No, no, go ahead and say it. Go ahead and say it.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Say it.

SPEAKER_07 23:54

It's like they're they're putting themselves in Job's shoes, and then putting themselves or Job in their shoes. It's just they're flipped, they're they're hypocrites, that's all. They're just hypocrites. They're like, because what they're saying again, it's what they're saying is true. Because the innocent one will mock at the one who's thinking they don't need God and they have all their house and goods and stuff in it. But the innocent will laugh at them because God laughs at them because they're so silly they don't even realize it's here for a moment and then it's gone. You can't take it with you, it's not gonna save you, you know? And then it's not even theirs to begin with. A house isn't the house, it might be built by a man, but we know that it's God who builds everything and gives everything.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Right. Amen, sister. And two witnesses, come back if you can. I don't, I didn't nobody gave you the boot. Nobody gave me the book.

Eliphaz’s Call To Repentance

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, he's gonna, it's a glitch. He's gonna have to go out of the app, or or he may have to update and come back in. So we need to check his settings, but he c he needs to come back in. Yeah, it does that all the time.

When Repentance Talk Hits Believers

One-Upmanship And Religious Hypocrisy

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, he'll hopefully he'll get back here. Um, I like it, I like his his his engagement and input. So um, anyway, so verse 21 and 23. Eliphos says, Acquaint now thyself with him and be at peace. Now, listen to this. This is this is this is good. Acquaint thyself with him and be at peace. Thereby, good shall come unto you. Receive, I pray thee, the law from his mouth and lay up his words in your heart. If you return to the Almighty, you shall be built up, you shall, and you shall put away iniquity far from your tabernacles. Now, now Eliphaz decides to have a call to repentance. Okay, now this these three verses, they're solid. They're solid. It's a call to repentance, and so he says, he's saying to Job, peace with God, this is your remedy. This will cure your distress. This will bring comfort to your soul. To acquaint oneself with God is to seek reconciliation, submission, and communion with him. This is what he's telling Job now to repent. But still, we got a problem. Anybody want to say what the problem is? He doesn't need to repent. Exactly. He doesn't, there's nothing for him to repent of. So he he's he's saying the right thing. He's saying the true thing. He's expressed, he's he is expressing truthfulness in terms of a doctrinal application that belongs to the wicked, guilty man, but he's still he's saying this, but he's saying it from the standpoint of a of an erroneous diagnosis. He diagnosed the wrong thing. Job needs the edification that only a Christian can receive. You don't edify a sinning a sinner. Edification is for the believer, exhortation is for the believer. But this right here is what we tell the unbeliever. The person who's rejecting God, the person who is living in flagrant violation of God's holy law. But when you see this, if you if you if you hear this from somebody, you go, that's a that's an awesome message. That's a great message. But this is also as beautiful as it is, and as truthful as it is, when you say it to someone who is already saved, it doesn't come off, come off that way. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, when somebody tells you, if you're going through a problem, everybody here has some type of a struggle that they're going on in their lives in varying degrees, myself included. We all have these these things. And whether people know or not, it can be perceived that that we are somehow out of touch with God, or that God is coming after us. He means ill for me. And so then that person who witnesses your problem comes to you and tells you you need to repent and turn to Christ when they know you've been a Christian for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. If somebody came to tell me something like that, two witnesses just said it, that would produce real righteous indignation. And I understand exactly what he's saying. Because how many times have, I mean, I'm sure that every one of us at some point in our Christian life have heard somebody has witnessed or heard somebody tell us or someone else who is a believer that you need to repent and turn to God. And it's it's a it makes it enrages the soul. I know it does mine. I know it does mine. If I heard something like that, it would not be, it would not go well. And so, and if and if your response is bad enough, it's too, if it's too bad, you then you embolden them even more. You know what I mean? It's like if they if somebody tells you that you need to repent and turn to God, even though you've been a Christian for 20, 30 years, whatever it may be, and they tell you that, it incenses and enrages you, and then they go, see, see? That's what they do. It's the devil's tactic. Brother Pat, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

You know, just another thing. Uh, because you know, I always kind of take uh my shots at the religious folks out there. Yeah, you know that if the roles were reversed and Job was saying the same thing, what would these guys be? They'd be crying, they'd be hooting and hollering about how could you say that? Isn't that always the way it is? Always that way. Always the the ones who are making the the most aggressive allegations are always the ones that if you even say one thing to them, they can't handle it.

Turning Toward Promises Of Gold

SPEAKER_03 31:05

That's right. If you say to them they can't handle it, and if you are enraged by them saying it to you, then they think it validates what they said to you. You know, it's it's so crazy. It's like, so you can't be, you can't be like, like brother um two witnesses said, you can't have a righteous indignation without them saying, oh, yep, oh, see, that proved my point. That proved my point. You know, you got issues. Otherwise, you wouldn't be acting like that. Be more gentle with my admonitions and my rebuke. Because if you don't accept my rebuke, then it must mean you're not a Christian and you need to repent. But this is how people are. This is all about, this is always, more often than not, about one up, about one upmanship. That's what that's what it is. But Job, Job is holding his ground, and he's holding his ground in a really uh good and profound way, you know? And uh and uh and I think that the way he does it should be a lesson to us all. Um I don't want to go on with the next section. Uh let me see here. Let me read this again. Let me read this. Verse 24 and 25. So this is after he says, you know, he gives this call to repentance, you know, turning to God and turning away from his sin, you know, the usual gospel message. This is this is what this is, really a gospel message. And so in verse 24 and 25, he says, look, if you do this, if you repent, Job, if you turn away from your sin and turn to God, because of course you never did, then, verse 24, then you shall lay up gold as