LIVE: "I Would Order My Cause Before Him" (Job 22:26-23:4), Part 2/5

Silence can feel like rejection, especially when you’re hurting, praying, and doing your best to hold it together. We sit with Job 23 and name what a lot of Christians are afraid to say out loud: sometimes we act like God has gone missing. Then we challenge that assumption with the character of God Himself, talking about omnipresence, prayer, and why there is no corner of suffering where the Lord cannot hear His people.

We also dig into Job’s intense desire to “find” God and present his case. Is that arrogance, bold faith, or a mix of both? Along the way we contrast knowing facts about God with actually knowing God, and we unpack a line that sticks with you: the teacher is always quiet during the test. If you’ve ever interpreted God’s timing as God’s absence, this will reframe how you view spiritual dryness, anxiety, and seasons where comfort doesn’t come quickly.

The conversation widens into theology that’s meant to strengthen tired believers, not win arguments: God’s sovereignty and providence, the assurance of salvation, and why we believe salvation has always been the same across the Old Testament and New Testament because the Redeemer is the same Jesus Christ. If you need steadiness, not hype, you’ll find it here.

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Transcript

God’s Nearness And Our Doubt

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Leaves or forsakes his people. He is an ever presence. He is ever present with his people. There is no place that we can go where we can call out. There's no place where we think he can go where we can call out and he doesn't hear. There is no such place where God can go so far from us that we can hear from him and that he can hear us. So, brother too, I agree with you. I think that that that I don't think Job is being sarcastic, but I think that his problem here is that he is denying, or he is he is denying that God is present. He thinks that, and he he's acting like God is on a vacation or something, and something is going on with him, and somehow God is not he's blinded to see what's going on. He doesn't know what's going on with Job. So many Christians think this. They have every trial that a Christian has, we think that God is ignoring us, He doesn't see us, He doesn't care. Maybe I'm not a Christian. And God would have us understand things very differently. Very differently. Sister Lisa, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

And how many times have we ourselves felt like God is distant and crying out, where are you, Lord? Did you leave me? Um, you know, turn your face back towards me. And he's just, we need to learn just to be still. What does he say? Be still and know that I am God.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

That's right. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Be still, be still. And this is like huge for me right now because I think I'm feeling really um, I'm feeling empathetic towards Job and really convicted myself because it's so easy to fall into Lord, where are you? Why aren't you helping me? Where did you go? What you know, and man, man, the lessons in this book.

God’s Personal Care For Each Believer

SPEAKER_06 2:39

And you know, and you know what else, sister? It's like it's like many times, see every Christian, listen, every every my brothers and sisters in Christ, listen to me here. God deals with each one of us as if we are the only ones he deals with. God deals with every single individual Christian as if and in a way as though we were the only ones that exist before him. When you understand what I'm telling you right now, this will this will change your life. When you respond to God, and the way you need to understand the Lord, is to understand this. Look at it as though there is no one else on earth, and God's eternal happiness has to do with you and you only. Not that we add anything to God's happiness, that's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is this when you understand how God really understands his relationship to you and how he wants you to understand him, you should walk away believing this. God only has eyes for me. I am the apple of his eye, because that is how he treats every single one of his children. He treats every one of his children as if they are the only ones that exist. He treats you as though you're the only child he has, he treats me as though I'm the only child that he has. That is how magnanimous he is, where he's able to make us understand how significant, how great his love is for his people, every one of us. It's not arbitrary, he's not indifferent. He loves us all, and his love for each one of us is intimate. It is intimate, it is special. You need to understand that is the God that we worship. Brother Jeffrey, go ahead.

SPEAKER_07 5:09

Jonathan, I think here in the first few verses of chapter 23, uh, we're hearing a man, and you and Lisa have already alluded to this. We're hearing words from a man who is absolutely rock bottom uh uh determined or wanting and desiring to hear from God. I mean, he he doesn't want anything else in his life right now. He wants to hear from God so that he knows that God is still there, so he knows that relationship that he had with God is still there, still strong, so that he can address his friends and say, Look, I'm still in relationship with God in spite of what you think of me or what you think I've done, and yet God continues to let Job stay where he is because he's not done working with him yet. So, Jonathan, another question that has come to me about all of this is Job's friends know seemingly know a lot about God, but Jonathan, and I've asked this question before, but how much do we really know about do they know God?

SPEAKER_06 6:21

Right.

SPEAKER_07 6:22

Because none of them, as I've said before, they're clueless as to what's going on with Job. All they want to do, Job, what'd you do? What'd you do? What'd you do? We have 22 chapters of that so far. You know, and they still haven't gotten it through their thick heads, he hasn't done anything. Right. And so the point here for you and I is to stay strong in our relationship with him. There are times when it seems like he's not looking, he's not listening. That's when the test is, brother.

SPEAKER_06 6:52

Amen.

SPEAKER_07 6:55

And you have pointed this out, Jonathan. The teacher is always quiet during the test. That's right. So do your best and just and pray and keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

Amen. Hallelujah. Amen, brother. Brother Pat, and then Candy. Brother Pat, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Well, I I don't know what to I don't know what to think. I'll be honest, uh Jonathan. Um it's interesting because what makes it interesting to me is that it's Job. So uh I don't know, uh maybe my mind's not in the right place, but if this can happen to Job, it can happen to anybody.

SPEAKER_06 7:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Right? This is a real man of faith, and my my mind is is uh is thinking about that. That like even the best of us it's really important that we keep our eye on the prize at all times, even in the worst of circumstances. That's just what I'm thinking about.

SPEAKER_06 8:04

No, absolutely, brother. Absolutely. That is so true. Uh, Sister Candy and then Sean. Candy, go ahead.

Job’s Hunger To Hear From God

SPEAKER_03 8:16

I don't know how I'm I'm lost now. I've I went back to chapter 13, 8 where he's asking, you know, will you show partiality for him or will you contend for him? So it's like, you know, and then but Jeffrey got me a sidetracked with his comment about, you know, we've always said that they know of God, but they don't know God. Right. And then it it that made me start thinking about Simon in Acts when he asks, can he purchase the power when they lay the the when they're being laying hands on people? You know what I'm talking about? Right. So it's like his heart's not right. Job's friends' hearts aren't right either. So, you know, they they still need to anyway. He threw me off, but it was I don't, yeah.

Arrogance Or Misreading God’s Presence

SPEAKER_06 9:06

Anyway, next all right, sister Sean and then Meg.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, just uh just reading, looking at three and four, I I kind of recognize a bit of arrogance in Joe because he's saying that, you know, if I could find him, I would even come to his seat and I would, I would, you know, fill my mouth with arguments. I would plead my cause. I I want a face-to-face encounter. Right. So there's this bit of arrogance that Joe can just come to God, right, in this way. And there's no that and not in humility. He's not coming in humility, he's coming to argue. Right. And so there's a bit of arrogance that I spot.

SPEAKER_06 9:48

Well, see, then let me, let me, let me, uh, and this this is probably the first time, sister, that I'm challenging you on something. Because I think, because I here's what I think. I think you're right about the arrogance. I think you're right about the arrogance, but I think you're you are, I think I want some, I want you to consider something else. I think I want you to consider where the arrogance, the other way arrogance might lie. I don't think the arrogance is so much in um that um that he's saying, um, how do you how did you put it? Uh I'm losing my train of thought. How did you put it, Sean? Where his arrogance, what do you say his arrogance was in?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Um him wanting to uh plead his case. He he wants to in an argument. Right.

SPEAKER_06 10:35

See, I don't I don't see I don't think that's arrogant at all. I think that part is good. I think the arrogance is his assumption that God is so far removed from him that he can't reach him, like he can't find him. I think that's where his argument is. I think that's where his arrogance is. He's saying that God, in other words, like, and and again, I I can't, I wouldn't argue either way, but I I do believe there is arrogance here. But what I do believe is that the problem that Job has here is making this assumption that God is so far removed from him that he can't reach him. And see, this is what the problem is. I think that the idea that he wants to, that he wants to come to God's seat and that he wants to order his cars before God, I think that's right. Job is not like, here's the thing He he has a strong desire for access to God. This is what he wants. But the problem is God hasn't gone anywhere. God hasn't gone anywhere. He never, like we talked about, we know that we know this from from the the you know the the writings of the New Testament. God never leaves or forsakes his people. And Job is speaking as though God has somehow become that he left the crime scene, so to speak. He's gone. I don't know where he is. Where is he? Well, we know God is everywhere and he's everywhere at once, right? So, so I I I think that you, I think that Sister Sean, I think you're right. I think that he is showing some arrogance, and but I think the arrogance is just in a different direction. I think the arrogance is assuming that God has somehow, that God is some, that God can be somewhere so far removed that there's a place where he's not. And so we always talk about one of the ways to understand a biblical truth is in is through the filter of of the nature God's nature. We know that he is everywhere, we know that he is omnipresent, he's everywhere at once, we know that when we pray, he always hears us. But Job is speaking like somebody who believes that God has left the scene and he doesn't know what I'm going through. And see, this is how some of us, this is how we we act, that's some of us, all of us, at one point in our lives or many points in our lives, we will think that when our we we have a tendency to believe that when our struggles become so overwhelming, we begin to feel that God is not with us, that he's not here, that he doesn't, he's not sensible to what we're going through. You know? And so, and Sean, I think you're right. I think I think you are right. I just think I think that, but part of it, at the very least, part of Job's problem is thinking that God is absent. He's in absentee. He's not he's not around. Where is he? But we know something about the nature of God. He's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

I'll agree there is there is some desperation in Job.

Order Your Cause Before The Lord

SPEAKER_06 13:59

Yeah. There is. But I mean, you see what I'm saying, though, right? It's like, it's like um Yes. Yeah, so I think that problem is, see, we we can never the the the Christian soul that is truly converted can never we we have we this is something I want to say to all everybody here to to to build you up. I don't care how bad your circumstances are, the Lord is always near, he is always near. And even though you reach out to him and you call out to him, it doesn't mean that that he is not near because you think he doesn't hear. Let me tell you something. He's always near and he always hears. And this is something that Job has lost sight of, at least here. This is something he lost sight of. And we talked last night about let's let's let's figure out by the time we get to chapter 38, let's figure out what it is, why is God, what is the problem that God has with Job? Because God does have a problem with Job. It wasn't a sinful problem, it wasn't some scandal, it wasn't, it would have it had to do with a lack of understanding that Job had as it pertains to God. God steps on the scene and he wants to make Job clear, he wants to clarify Job's understanding about the nature of God. Whenever we have problems in life, Christians, listen to me. Whenever we have problems with our spiritual walk, it is always, in every instance, it is always because there is a misunderstanding that we have about God, about our Lord. It is always the problem. When you are, when you are, when you close in in all these things and stop looking at yourself, how you feel, your emotions, your depression, your anxiety. No, focus on the nature of God and it will clear things up when you really understand the God of the Bible. And this is why it's so important to understand his sovereignty because everything, if when you understand the doctrines of God and that he is a sovereign God over every aspect of our life and that his providence governs all things in our life, this is what gives us our peace. This is what gives us our joy. Sister Mae, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

You know, I love when we get to Job. I get so excited because I find myself wanting to be the comforter that he doesn't have. And so I want to tell, if I could tell Job one verse right now in the first three verses out of scripture, it would be Hebrews chapter 14, 4, verse 6. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need. And see, brothers and sisters, the things that we get to see in this book is something Job didn't get to see. Job did not hear God calling him my servant, that he was righteous and upright in a shoe with in a shewed evil and feared the Lord. See, Job didn't get to hear this. We get to hear this. So we know that if the Lord said that to Job, when we're suffering and we're going through trials and tribulations, we know what the Lord has deemed us to be already. But see, Job didn't get to see that. Job didn't get to see that that we're reading this right now, seeing that God hasn't showed up yet, but we're in the background screaming, wait till chapter 38, because he's about to come. Hold on, Job, just wait. He's coming. And not only did God was God silent for 34 chapters. God didn't just come in and come into Job or you know, restore him all. He says, I'm going to come to you myself, and I'm going to reveal who I am. And I'm going to show you, Job, that you have a misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_06 18:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

And I'm about to bring you understanding. And I know you're going through this, Job. And I know it's rough, Job, but Job, I haven't left because chapter 38's coming up, and here I am, and I'm going to reveal myself, and I'm going to give you understanding. I'm going to show you that even though you were suffering, although I may not give you an answer, I'm going to show you why.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

You know, in a way that you've never seen before. And so I find myself in this book cheering him on and realizing that we get to see in the book of Job the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. We get to see God for who he is when we're going through something. And when you said, when you said, Jonathan, that he he goes through us in this personal way, I felt that because he does. Is like we're the only person in the entire world. And his whole focus is just on us in this moment, walking us through second by second. And you know what? That's why we don't walk by faith and we don't walk by sight. We're not going to see these things, but we know that he's there. And I feel like Job in here, again, his understanding is where he's misstepping with God. Because he wants to plead his case. But here's the thing that Job knows. He knows that if when he meets the Lord, because he he just declared that his Redeemer lived, right? He knows when he gets to the Lord, he will plead his case.

SPEAKER_06 20:11

He will plead his case. And this is this is the big thing. I'm gonna come back to this in a second about pleading his case and ordering his cause. Sister Candy, what do you think? You were gonna say something. Candy and then Mariah. I want to hear what you have to say.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Just where, you know, in the beginning he talks about um where you said my stroke is heavier than my groaning. And that's like he's saying, you know, God's hand is heavy. You know, like I can't remember exactly how the one I was reading in it says it. But it may it makes me go back to kind of what Meg was leaning towards, you know, Job doesn't understand, all he's gotta do is reach out. There he is, you know, right? But it's that advocate, he doesn't realize he is the advocate for himself, where we have Jesus, but still yet the same scenario with him, but he's not left him. He's there, you just don't reach out to him. But it makes me go to uh 1 Peter 5, 6 and 7, and it's therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you at the proper time, casting all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yes, yes, sister.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

That's again, it's just that reaching out for him, he's right there, and that's what we we are told through scripture. You know, when you think he's not there, he's waiting on you just to turn around and and look up to him and say, Lord, and he's right, and he's right there to put his arms around us and comfort us. But again, it goes back to still, he's he's if he if he intervenes too quick for any of us, we're not gonna learn what he's teaching us.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

And then that that would made me want to say. Something about um man.

SPEAKER_06 22:04

That's all right. We'll come back to you. Mariah, go ahead. What do you think? Mariah and then Vanessa.

SPEAKER_05 22:16

Um, well, this is what I was kind of talking about last night, um, which Job knows of God's sovereignty, but again, he doesn't know how sovereign God is. And that God um like questioning where is he? And we know that he says that he fills the everything, you know. If he if you make your bed in Hades or in Sheol, he is there, and um, he fills the all the earth and all the heavens. So I I think that this is the cause and this is the reason in which why I feel like he needed to learn a little bit more about how how how sovereign God is, you know. Um and yeah, I mean, every time I hear I would order my case before him and fill my mouth with uh with arguments, I know that I I it makes me feel like a mediator. Some some there needs to be some type of mediation going on there. I know that anytime that you're in a court case and you're there, um oftentimes it's not the best advice or counsel to uh you know defend yourself. So so I always think about a mediator in that sense.

Salvation Never Changes Across History

SPEAKER_06 23:39

You know, here's the thing. And here is here is a characteristic of the true Christian. Because Job says, oh, that I knew where I might find him. Right? So this right here paints this picture somehow that God has gone somewhere. Like Job is where he's supposed to be, and God is the one that's lost, you know. But, and so this is where our problem is. But then, but then what is also characteristic of the Christian life, we we we are our our way, our manner of being before God is often a mixed bag. A bag mixed in the sense of there is spiritual decline on one hand, and there is there is also faithfulness being exhibited, and it goes up and down. So the down part of this is Job is saying, Oh, I knew, I wish I knew where I could find him. Well, on the positive side, he says, well, on the negative side, I wish I knew where I could find him, and if I could find him, I will come to his seat. And then he says, and that's negative, but on the positive side, he says, I would order my cause before him and fill my mouth with arguments. And see, let me tell you something that's that I personally believe is strong about this and positive about this. Job is not trying to find a way to run away from God. This is where his faithfulness really is. He's not running away from God. He is basically saying, Where is he? Let me find him, let me lay hold of him. I want to order my cause before him. I want to present my case. I want justice. I'm getting nothing now from my friends. I need my Lord to intervene. Job isn't running. He's saying, He's saying, I want to find my Lord. But the Lord is saying, I'm not lost. I'm here. I'm here. That's your problem. However, Job is saying, Job is saying, where is he? I want to plead my, I know there's no place I can go to get justice except in the presence of God. Only he can give me what I need. And if I can find him, I would order my cause before him. And let me tell you something, Christians. We need to spend every day, every day ordering our cause before God. Every day, every Christian should be ordering his or her cause before God. You want God to hear your case for whatever the situation is. Make your argument known. Lord, I need you to bring comfort to my brother Pat. Lord, I need you to bring comfort to my sister Meg's sister. I need you to step in. I need you to do this. Lord, I need you to bring aid and comfort and healing to my sister Lisa's granddaughter. I need you to move now. That's what I need from you. This is my cause. I'm laying it out before you. Lord, what are you going to do? Please step in and do something for me. I need you, and I can't do it alone. Give me peace in my soul, knowing that whatever happens, it is right and it glorifies you. Take away my pain over this issue. We can say a lot about Job and this idea that he has that God, he feels that God has distanced himself from Job. And we know that's not the case. We cannot mistake silence and then build into that silence an argument or a or or find a way to castigate God for not responding when we want him to. Amen. He will always deliver, he always does. There has never been a time in my life or your life where he hasn't delivered, and you know what I'm saying is true. Every one of you know what I'm saying is true, and you will do it again, and after that, you will repent because you'll go, Yeah, I did it again. He always comes through, he always gives me what I need, he never leaves me or forsakes me. Forgive my intensity. But Christians, we need to understand this. We need to understand this, and we need to stop making this mistake over and again, over and over again that because he doesn't respond at the time or with the quality that we want for him to be who he is. He gives us what we need at every given point in our lives, and he will never leave us, he was always building us up. And even when he's silent, it is a means or a tool that he is using to build us up. I would even argue that sometimes his silence is a means of his chastising grace to bring us to a place where we increase our dependence upon him. Whenever we feel that God is not around, it's not because he's not around, it's because we are the ones who is not where we need to be. Man. You know, we are not the ones, we are the ones we need to be where we are supposed to be. He is always there, ever present, will never leave us or forsake us. That's what those words mean. I will never leave you or forsake you. How can those words mean that at some point he will be gone to such a degree that he will allow us to sink into the quagmire of our sin and carnality again? When Jesus Christ says, I will never leave you or forsake you, how do you walk away with the conclusion that, oh, we can lose our salvation? I don't know how. How do you reconcile that idea? I will never leave you or forsake you, but you can lose your salvation. Please tell me how that makes sense. How does that how is that reconciled? Not it can't be. Not only is it not, it's impossible for it to be reconciled. It's like taking two negative poles on a magnet and trying to connect them together. They will never connect. Never. Two witnesses. Go ahead, brother. Speak.

SPEAKER_08 30:58

Yeah, uh, it just sounds like uh the same God that doesn't answer our prayers like right away, is the same God that doesn't punish us when we sin right away. Right. Well, but as I'm reading this, and forgive me, I don't want to go like ahead of myself, but as I I'm listening to you, like I'm I'm continue reading these verses like a little ahead. The same uh uh chapter, but for example, it says right here uh in in verse 5, it says, I will know the words with which he will answer and discern what he will say to me, right?

SPEAKER_07 31:43

Right.

SPEAKER_08 31:43

In this in this aspect, the it will seem that he feels that God is distant, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Right.

SPEAKER_08 31:52

And in uh and I'm just confused because uh the law of Moses it was not uh in this time, right? So is is there uh any other way that job would have come across God's commands? Yeah. Okay, but uh because uh like like I said, I don't want to get ahead of myself, maybe I should wait. But uh in in verse 12, it's very interesting what he says then.

SPEAKER_06 32:26

Which part? When he says, when he says, uh, neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips, I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than necessary food.

SPEAKER_08 32:36

Right, right. He says, I I I have I have I have kept his way and not turn aside. So how does Job knows about the way of God? You know, he's justifying himself in such a way that he says, I have kept his commands, I have done everything, I am, I am innocent, I have done nothing wrong. How does he know?

SPEAKER_06 33:00

He knows, he does know, and he he first of all, I'll tell you this, brother. Not only does he not he does know, and he's correct. And here's the reality. Even if we had any doubt, even if we had any doubt, we know that what God said about Job. And what did God say about Job in chapter one? He is upright, he is perfect, he eschews evil, and he fears God. And like, and like somebody, and like Floyd says here, it was written on his heart. And let me see, and brother two witnesses, you're asking a good question. Let me tell you the reason why. Because we need to understand, because I believe it was you also that asked the question, did the Holy Spirit live in Job? And here's the reality. Either there is one way of salvation, or there are multiple ways of salvation. An issue is this you cannot be saved unless the law of God is written on your heart. You cannot be saved unless the Spirit of God has sealed you until the day of redemption. This is part of the salvific process. And there's always only been one way of being saved, it has always been the same. Now, it may be more illustrious today in terms of our ability to understand and having a deeper degree of clarity on what God has done. But what we if we start from the standpoint that salvation is the same for every believer in every age, this clears up a lot of things. This clears up a lot of things. And what every Christian who is study who is a student of the Word of God, every every Christian who is a student of the Word of God must ask themselves and answer this question. Is salvation has salvation always been and always will be the same for everyone, or is it different for certain folks? Is it different for Old Testament saints versus New Testament saints? This is what we need to ask. And this is this is what I will die and go to the grave arguing. Salvation is always the same. And I'm gonna tell you why. A big reason why. First, the scripture is perfectly gives us, is it it provides all the evidence that we need to prove this point is true. Salvation is the same for every Christian. Now, what I'll also say is this is that if you can be saved, if you can be saved, and you know, Old Testament saints can be saved, and there's a different way or means by whereby New Testament saints are saved, then there's somehow an imperfection. There's somehow an imperfection in the salvation that was given to the old testament saints, an imperfection that needed an improvement, and that improvement came later. And if you have that position, now you have a bigger problem. You have a bigger problem because salvation was a prescription made by God. Is it possible that the salvation process for the old testament saints, for example, like Job, if that wasn't fulfilling enough, then what improvement was needed? Because here's the reality: every single person who is saved, whether you're an old testament saint or a new testament saint, every single person that has ever been saved has been saved by the same exact sacrifice, the Lord Jesus Christ. Who was his redeemer?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Lord Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_06 37:51

That's right. That was his redeemer. Job knew it. And what did he say? His encounter would be with his redeemer.

SPEAKER_05 38:01

He shall see him in his flesh.

SPEAKER_06 38:03

He shall see him in his flesh, and he will see him face to face in his flesh. Amen. That means salvation has never changed. Why? Because the object who rendered us saved is the same. He's the eternal son of God. You have dispensationalists who waste countless hours lying to people, telling them that in all these different, distinct, and separate dispensations, salvation has been modified and improved upon. You can't improve upon the salvation that God has given to his people. You can't do it. You can't improve upon what God does. That's why I dispensationalism from the beginning to the end is a lie. I had a guy today that tells me he's gonna spend his entire, I guess, his existence on social media to tear down my arrogance. To shut me down. I'm not going anywhere. I'm telling you.