LIVE DISCUSSION: Testimony of Venessa Martin (Part 2/4)

She says something most people are afraid to admit: she never really doubted God existed. Even in seasons of sin and confusion, she still prayed at night, convinced there was a Father listening. What changed over time was not God’s reality, but Jesus becoming personal and central, as Scripture moved from something she heard at church to something that confronted her at home, at work, and in the hardest moments of life.

We talk with Vanessa about what it looks like when the Bible “starts speaking” and a label from other Christians does not fit. After being told she was “Jesus only” and being pushed out of a church for how she talked about Christ, she does not walk away from faith. She goes deeper into Bible study, holds tightly to the Trinity, and learns discernment the hard way. Along the way, we explore spiritual growth through suffering, including domestic abuse, the shock of church hurt, and the kind of light bulb moments that come when you realize God is with you even when life is not safe.

Vanessa also shares her long fight with fibromyalgia, years in bed, and the hope she found in “By His stripes you are healed,” along with the slow rebuilding of strength afterward. We discuss favorite passages like Romans 8:28, the Narrow Gate, fears about memory and dementia, and how grace, faith, and repentance become real when you refuse to outsource your convictions to loud voices online. If you care about Christian testimony, Bible reading, healing, and learning to spot bad teaching, this conversation will stay with you.

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Transcript

Early Faith Without Doubt

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Then I got back in church. Right. And and so from then on, I was always, you know, going to church and trying the best to do what, you know, my best that God would lead me through. And so I was good. And I started working at the University of Michigan. Because at the time, it at the other the other times I moved, I moved back to um Eastern Michigan. I lived in Western Michigan because I had moved there because my husband had worked at um GM and that's how we went there. And that's where my kids were raised, was in West Michigan. And I don't know what else. Where was I going with that? I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, let me ask you this thing. Did you did you ever did you ever struggle ever like before did you ever struggle with doubts about the existence of God or his character? Like before before leading up to your your conversion, did you ever had did you ever have any doubts about God and his existence? And and and never never at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Never.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

My whole entire life. I knew that I knew that God existed and I knew that he was real. And I knew my whole entire life. I mean, even when I was out sinning, I've come home and pray at night. Even though I knew that God probably wasn't hearing me, you know. But then now I think he did hear me. He just, you know, because he he's our father. He hear he knows everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

So he hears us all. I mean, we we were his children way before we knew we were. Um so let me ask you this question, because you you said you were converted around 13. What did you think about what did you think about Jesus Christ before you were 13, before you became a Christian? What did you think about him before? Can you recall?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

I don't I don't think that I even thought about him that much, you know, because it was just God, God, you know. Um, even though we knew Jesus, you know, that Jesus existed, I don't think I at the time that I thought as much about Jesus as I did the Father.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Right. So you so you're saying you you so you're saying you had the high idea about about God, the essence of God, but then but then the personal nature of Christ, you really didn't have any idea about at the time, at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

No, not until later in my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Wow. Now that's that's interesting. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Uh, Jesus existed. I knew he existed, and I knew that he, you know, he died for our sins.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

And all that, but I didn't look at it like that. I I just looked at it like the father. You know, because I knew that Jesus was God too. So I think I just looked at it as the Father instead of Jesus.

Meeting Christ Through The Word

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So Wow, that's interesting. That's probably one of the most unique things I've heard so far in a testimony in that regard. That's interesting. That's very interesting. All right, so let's let's talk about the conversion itself now. So can you describe the moment? Well, let me ask you this question first. Because a lot of people um today, modern Christian Christianity, everybody has a tendency to know the day and the moment and the time of day they came to Christ. I wasn't that way. I, you know, I I mean I had I had an experience, but I also knew that it happened before. So whether it was a day or whether it was a season or a period of time, describe how you became a Christian, when you became a Christian. Like, like describe, what was that? Like, what was it like? What do you feel like? What did what what about Christ became real to you that you weren't that you didn't have before, as as I asked you in the last question? So when you become a Christian, that's Christ becomes very central. So what happened?

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Well, I started reading the word because before it was like, you know, you go to church on Sunday, you listen to the preacher, and you listen to what he has to say in the word, and then you know, and if you go on Wednesdays, pretty much the same thing as Bible study. And so it was I started reading the word and it started speaking to me. You know, um, and showing me who Jesus was. And so then from there is when I went, you know, after they kicked me out of my church and told me I was Jesus only, I went to a Jesus only church just to see what they meant. And I definitely was not. I was not a Jesus only because I believe in the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, all three. So so why did they think you were Jesus only? Because I told them I knew who Jesus was. I said, God showed me who Jesus was. You know, because he did. Right. I mean, that was an experience I can't ever forget in my life, and I don't want to. But I'm gonna tell you the God's honest truth. I really wished everybody could experience it. Because when I found out who Jesus was and I started reading my word, I started digging in my word so deep. And and I did that for a few years until I got divorced again, and then I fell back, like I said. But then it was like I used to take my Bible to work with me. I worked at the University of Michigan, and I used to take my Bible there and read it at my desk. And people would look at me strange, but I didn't care. You know, I had one like was like a desk size. And um, but I had other people that I would talk to and, you know, see if they would if they knew who Jesus was, you know, but they didn't. And uh not really they didn't. They thought they did. But I have come to find out they did not. And so, you know, because I know who Jesus is today. I really do know who he is. Even though I was shown who he was as far as the word goes, I didn't really know him personally.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I'll put it that way. So let me so let me ask you this. So I know for me, and I think a lot of people, they usually have that, like because you like because uh your testimony is is interesting because you didn't have any like real influences, but the Lord Himself directly, you know, sort of dealt with you in a way, and and and and and there's no formula to salvation. I mean, you you know, there isn't. There's agency, and sometimes there can be no agency other than God dealing with you directly. That's just how God is. He is different, it's never the same, it's not a formula. But generally speaking, when we start getting into the word of God, every one of us usually has that first light bulb moment, you know, when that that that first thing that we understood, that we that we grasped that when we finally understood it or saw or saw for the first time, it was just it just opened everything up and made it made us even more hungry to learn more. Did you have an instance like that? Is there something particular that you saw in your study that really made Christ and and and your trust in him stand out, that really made things make a lot of sense to you and that really weighed on you in a in a in a in a joyful way? Or a scary way.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Well, when gosh, I hate telling us when my husband at the time he would beat me. And uh I knew that God was with me and that what I was going through. One time he one time he knocked my head up against the bathtub and it was like God said, I'm taking care of you. You can do it physical, but it my spirit was good. And so that was a light bulb moment for me. And I have a lot of light bulb moments in the word. You know, when God shows me things that I just think, wow, that's what that means, you know, and so I do that all the time, still.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Any any one particular thing, any one thing stood out more than all the others? Anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Um when he said you are healed by my stripes. Wow. You know, that that was something that stuck out to me, and there was a reason for it. Um I was diagnosed with uh fibromyalgia. And I was in bed for four years and I couldn't hardly move. I was just I was miserable. My hands, my feet, and there wasn't nothing I could do. I mean, my legs, my eyes. When you have fibromyalgia, you hurt all over. And it took them two years to diagnose me. And then, because it takes a long time because it's not something that you can do with a blood test. But anyway, I laid in bed in these past years. Two years ago, I prayed so hard, and I didn't know if it would happen. I mean, I thought it would, because you know, he says you are healed by my stripes, you know, by his stripes. And so I prayed and prayed and prayed, and uh it took a long time, but two years ago, in January, I didn't have any more symptoms at all. Whatsoever. And uh yeah, and I praise God. You know, all glory goes to him because it sure wasn't me.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

That's right, sister. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Let me ask you this go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

No, I'm just I was just gonna say he healed me and I and I've been, you know, it I didn't even have any muscle in my body. Everything was um, oh gosh, I'm losing the trait of thought. Um I was atrophied. My muscles were atrophied so bad because I lay in bed for so long.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Right.

Healing From Fibromyalgia And New Strength

SPEAKER_02 11:12

And um, and now I'm going to the gym. So that's a blessing for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Amen, sister. I'm glad, I'm glad you mentioned us a little bit to me the other day. Um let me ask you this what is the most memorable sermon you've ever heard, and why? Why was it memorable?

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Because I didn't know, and it was you when you told me about um well, two things, actually. Um, when you told me about in Revelation and the mark of the beast, that was just so eye-opening to me. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

This wasn't scripted, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

I was so excited because I did not know that that's what that meant. I had no idea. You know, I mean, God showed me a lot of things in scripture, but that wasn't one of them. I had the hardest time. I read Revelation so many times, and I still don't know all of it, you know. I just can't get through it. I mean, I go through it and read it, but now that I I know the difference, it's different.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

You know, it's like sorry. It's okay. Wow. And the other one was Daniel 9. When you saw when you taught that. Really? I didn't know that either. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's why I said you had really blessed me because that was the two things I did not understand. You know, and God led me to you through my sister, you know, and there was a reason. You know, and uh Bobby's just I love her to death. I can't even tell you how much I love her. And uh but she started watching you about a year ago, and she kept telling me things, and I was really glad because she uh I try to tell her stuff, and you know how they say your family don't listen to you. Yep, you know, and uh but I th I mean she would listen to some things, and she said to me one day, she goes, Vanessa, all you do is talk about God. And she goes, Not that that's a bad thing or anything. But then she started watching you, and she started learning, and she started reading her Bible again, and I was just so happy, my heart was just full of joy because I knew that she was learning, and so she kept saying, You should watch him, you should watch him. And uh one day, it was back in November, and I started watching you, and I've watched you pretty much every day since. So that was a blessing for me, yeah. But I wasn't expecting any answer.

Sermons That Opened Revelation And Daniel

SPEAKER_00 14:13

That answer was definitely not on my uh list of things that I thought I might. You didn't know that no, I didn't know that. I did not know that. And so, and I I appreciate you you're saying, and you know, which I know you're only saying it because you believe it. And uh so I'm thankful for you and Bobby and for everybody that's here. And and once again, I'm grateful for you being here, you know, giving us your testimony, and I'm I'm I'm enjoying it, and um you know, it's just it's just a great thing. So I appreciate you, sister. I thank you for those words because I never would have seen that that answer coming. That wasn't on the list of things that I would hear. And it's a blessing to me. No, and uh it's a blessing because this is what we're here to do. This is what I'm what I want to do, this is what I'm here to do, is to try to uh build up the faith of God's people and to, you know, to me, if if any man has a real legacy, a real true, genuine legacy is going to be around how he taught folks about the word of God and how he influenced other people's lives and just just wasn't this passerby. You know, so um it's just like you know, the you know, when I get to know people and like I did got to talk to you a little bit the other day, and we talked for a while and laughing and goofing off, and you introduced me to being bum fuzzled.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah, I call it bum fuzzle because my brain gets bum fuzzled.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

That made my day, that was a new word for me. I like I like that one. Um so let me ask you this one. This is this should be an easy one. When is what what's your favorite verse in the Bible and why?

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Oh, there's two of them. Um The Narrow Gate is one of mine, and then of course, Romans 8, 28. That was the first one I had.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Well, whom he did for do.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

And um where I'm getting my mind's getting all hang on. That's all right. I have a hard time remembering all these, and I know it's because I'm old, I think. That's what I tell myself. Um, because used to I knew a lot of them, and I'm just like, now I can't remember. Um it um you know, it says all things work together, work together for the good of God.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yep, those are called according to his purpose.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, yeah, that's that's my favorite. That was always my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

And why do you think? What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Because I know that he called us and that we work as a whole to because we live inside of Jesus. Whether anybody understands that or not, a lot of people do not. They don't understand that Jesus is in us and we are in him. And God has shown me how Jesus was in him. You know, I'm telling you, God's given me a lot of gifts. He really has. He explains things to me where I understand them. Now, I didn't tell you this part, but there was a time when I was going to church that God would teach me the Bible in my mind when I slept. And I'd wake up the next day and I knew. That's why I think I could remember everything back then. But I also, this mind of mine, it's a little old now, so I'm not making an excuse. I just don't understand why I can't remember it. And I pray about it all the time. Say, God, just bring this back to my remembrance, please. You know?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah, you know, it's so I I know what you mean by that. You know, I I had to take care of my godmother. Uh I was her conservator, and she had, she had, she was older than us, and um, and she had dementia, faithful woman of God, as long as for my entire life for sure. And she had dementia and Alzheimer's. And and and and now I always I always worry. Like one day, I, you know, I spoke to her at when we were at the home, and I said, I know that you're in there somewhere. I know you're in there. And um, and I said, I know you can't say what you want to say, but I know what's in your mind to be able to say it. You just you just can't put the words out. And that was the first and only time I've seen her cry in my life. Wow. And I she've been my godmother since I was six months old, since I was a baby. And uh I never saw her cry until I told her that I know you're in there, and I know you I know that it that it's there. You just can't you just can't say it. And I told her, but we'll talk about it when we get to glory. You know, we'll talk there. And she cried. And she didn't live much longer after that. She didn't live much longer after that. And so it's my fear now that you know, not that there's some kind of a uh hereditary thing. It's not like that, but I don't want to lose my mind. I want to, I want, I want all my faculties to be here so that I can continue to do what I'm doing now. And uh, and that's always one of my big fears. Like losing my mind or or losing my eyesight where I can't read anymore. That would destroy me.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

That's what I say.

Favorite Verses And Fear Of Losing Memory

SPEAKER_00 19:51

But you know, God does, but God is gonna do what he does, you know? So we just have to stay faithful. Now, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Oh, I was just gonna say, I pray about that all the time. I pray about not losing my mind, and because I know a lot of people that had Alzheimer's and um dementia, and uh I know how you get. And don't get me wrong, I don't know if this is true or not, but this is what God has shown me. That's part of a curse. That's what I think. And so I said, God, I know that you're in control of everything, and no matter what I say or do, it's gonna happen no matter what. It doesn't matter, right? So don't worry about anything like that. Right. My mom had cancer, my mom died with cancer, and um, I was 21 years old. And I just always thought because I looked so much like her, that I was gonna get cancer. And God showed me different.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

You know, just because that is something that happened with somebody else doesn't mean that's gonna happen with me. And I know that I'm God and He can heal me anytime.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

If I get sick if I get sick. And he has shown me that I know that God heals. Yes, praise you, Lord Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Um, you know, he he's healed me, and I I'm so grateful. I can't, I I can't even explain how grateful I am. You know, but um my body is just it's every time I get the spirit on me, I get so weak after afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Now let me ask you this. You you you have a really good grasp on biblical things, you know, grace, faith, repentance. Like it's not you know, it's not as we talked often, all of us, you know, it's not very many people who understand the the doctrines of grace the way we all understand faith, repentance, and grace. How did you come to understand these things? Like, how did you come to the place where you understand things the way you understand now? Like, how what was the what was the turn what was the turning point in that in that for you? Like, because when when we were when we were all young Christians, we thought about we thought we knew a lot more than we do. We find out when we get older that we knew nothing before and we know even less now. But those principal doctrines that we believe, you know, grace through faith and nothing but faith and all this kind of stuff. How how did you come to the understanding of these of these key doctrines? How did you come to believe them?

SPEAKER_02 22:40

I know this is gonna sound weird, but it's the truth. God just showed me everything. He really did. He really does show me stuff. He when I'm reading my Bible, he shows me stuff. When I'm praying, he shows me stuff. And I, you know, I just have so much faith. I I really feel like I have so much faith. I mean, I know some people think they have faith, but they don't.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Because they they don't listen to God. I try to listen to what he tells me and every like with my food. Every time I take a morsel of anything, I always thank God for giving it to me.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Because if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have it. And I was poor a time in my life, you know, when I didn't have anything or any place to stay or nothing. But, you know, I went through that too. But it's I have so much he's always brought me through everything. Anything that I've ever went through, he's always brought me through it, and he always will. And I know this. So I mean, I don't just think it, I know it.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Right. So you you said your favorite verse was eight Romans 8.28. Let me read the verse. Okay. It says, and we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose. So when you read to them that are called according to farther down the predestination. Right, yeah, that's what I was going to go into next. So when you read that the first time, it clicked with you. You it resonated with you right away.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yes, God just yes, it did. Really? That's really when I started, yes, that's when I really started um digging in the word. You know, like, okay, there's gotta be more to this than what I know. And so I just, you know, in every day of my life, I thank God for everything. I wake up, I pray when I'm sleeping, I think, because I wake up sleeping and praying. And but I mean, I just have that communication with God that I love I just there's nothing like it. Nothing like it.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Right, right.

Grace And Faith Learned In Prayer

SPEAKER_02 25:02

And um, I just it's I can't even talk. There's no words for it. Right. You know, it's like there there is no words. You can't talk words because it's just for me, and it's not for somebody else. Right. Because God gives somebody else something else. But he gives me that, right? And like I said, always forgiveness. He's always taught me forgiveness my whole entire life.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Well, let me well, I got I got plenty of questions, and we still got some time. And um, but so let me see if anybody here has any questions for you. Um, brother Jeffrey, you got any questions for Sister Vanessa?

SPEAKER_04 25:43

Not off the top of my head, Jonathan, but I do want to say this. Vanessa, this testimony of yours is incredible. What you have endured, what you have walked with, or walked through with him. I want to encourage you in the fact that when you see Jesus face to face, he will have his reward for what you've endured here. What we're enduring here, what you have gone through, what you have described and shared with us tonight, there is a great reward. And here it is. I'll tell you what the reward is, Vanessa. It's going to be these words well done, good, and faithful servant. And Vanessa, when you hear those words coming from him, all of the pain, all of the suffering, all of the mistreatment, the abuse that you described, as terrible and as painful as it was, at that moment it will be more than worth it for what you've endured. So just keep praising, keep sharing. Your testimony is beautiful. Please come back often, every night if possible. We love having you here. Awesome testimony. Thank you for sharing tonight.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

There's a reason why he's the encouraging servant. Very encouraging. Brother Pat.

Discernment Advice And Church Hurt

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Hey, sister Vanessa. Uh, first of all, I just have to say I love this sister. You are such a special person, Vanessa. Your heart brings so much to the study, and man, and I see even your comments, you're always so spot on. It's so great uh having you as a sister of Christ and having you in the study. But I got a question for you, Sister Vanessa. Okay. Um I'm a person that that um thinks about the mistakes I've made in life a lot. And um I have regrets. And and I tried to not let that get to a sinful place, but I feel like when we make mistakes, we get to teach the future. You know what I mean? So that they don't have to make the same mistakes. Is there something that you wish you would have done earlier in your Christian walk or something like it that you would tell the younger version of you? Spiritual advice that you can think of?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Don't listen, don't listen to people that do not have any idea what they're talking about because I have done that so much in my life. And Pat, I wanted to tell you something else. I sent you a message, but you haven't looked at it. I want to know. I want to know what books you have for um biblical history.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Okay, yeah, I'll I'll message you offline. Thank you. Oh, it's great that you're interested in that stuff. Yeah, I am.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I'm I'm interested in all the history of of the Lord. I'm just, you know, and what and biblical stuff that happened way back when, because there's so much stuff out there that people believe and shouldn't. And then there's stuff that they should believe and they don't. So I'm I want to know. I'm I'm curious. I that's what I tell God every day. Please let the Spirit teach me what your will is for me. And I just, you know, I that's what I say every day. And I just think about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

I love this about you, sister. If you don't mind, let me push you a little further. If if you can. Because I think that the advice that you gave is so important. Uh, people need to hear this. Young Christians. So if there's people that are listening, your answer here, can you explain a little more about what you mean about don't listen to people who don't know what they're talking about? Because this is this is a major downfall of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

I agree. Um, what I mean by that is like, okay, I'll give you an example. The other day I was in, I don't even know whose live it was, I just popped on it because I was scrolling and I stopped for a minute. And uh the girl's name was L. I don't know who that is, but there was this guy on there, and he was talking about, you know, he was wrong. And I just plain told him I said, You're wrong. That isn't how it works. Because he was talking about Jesus, you know. And um, I said, It's dispensationalism. And um she goes, What's the matter with Vanessa? What's the matter with dispensationalism? And I said, Because it's not the truth. You know, and I know because the truth will set you free. That is a fact. And it's not just knowing the gospel. You can know the gospel, but if you don't know God's heart and that he looks into our hearts, that you're just you're just playing wrong. And I'm an outspoken person, so if you know somebody says something wrong, I'm gonna say something if I got a chance. You know, but I think that people that listen to others that are not telling the truth, that they need to, especially young people, they need to dig into the word for themselves and find out what God has to give them because the Holy Spirit will show them.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Do you feel like the younger version, like the younger version of yourself um wasted some maybe wasted years of your life spiritually because you were assuming other people maybe knew more than you or they were a special teacher type of person or or something like that, some sort of religious authority? Yes, ideal.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Um, like I told you when I got kicked out of that church, I mean I looked up to them people. My preacher, oh man, I love them people so much. And when they kicked me out of the church, I knew that they were wrong. And I just said, you know, God I like I said, God drove my car home that day. I was in turmoil because I that was one of the worst hurts I've ever felt in my life. And it was like I wish I could go back to my teenage years and know the truth, the full truth of who God really is and who Jesus is. You know, Jesus is everything. And without him, we wouldn't be nothing. We would be nothing. I mean nothing. In hell. We would be in hell.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

And and I'm just so I am so so grateful that I know the truth. And Jesus taught me that. Because, like I said, I live by myself and I read my Bible every single day. I used to read it like eight hours a day. And um, I've read it over and over and over and over, and I still need to read it over and over and over and over because I don't understand everything, and I never will, but um that puts me in contact with Jesus. It just does. It, you know, it I don't even know how to say that. It he talks to me when I read my Bible.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

That's how he talked, that's how he talks to you, sister. That's how he does it.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

That's how he does. It's like a light bulb goes off in your head. You know, it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize this. Like the other day, what was it? Oh, I know when I ask you about uh the thing with the flood thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Mm-hmm.