"Times Are Not Hidden From The Almighty" (Job 24:1-12), Part 4/5

If a Christian believes God is sovereign and the elect will be saved, does that change how we should respond to war, injustice, and mass suffering, or does it make our responsibility even heavier?

We start by putting guardrails on the conversation. When Iran, Israel, and Gaza come up, it’s easy to slip into partisan loyalty or quick slogans. We refuse that shortcut and keep asking for something better: a grounded, Scripture-shaped way to think and speak. Lisa challenges us with a piercing question about allegiance, reminding us that Christians belong to the kingdom of God and must obey Jesus rather than the spirit of the age. That forces us to examine how easily “God language” can be used to bless what looks like evil.

Then Davey drops a hard theological claim about election that sparks the central debate. We explore the difference between trusting God’s sovereignty and sounding like suffering does not matter. We also talk about how doctrines can be weaponized by leaders who want religious cover for violence, even when believers have no such intent. From there we move into the practical tension: prayer, evangelism, and the Great Commission. If we truly believe God saves, what does faithful witness look like right now?

We close by returning to the Book of Job, where the questions feel painfully modern: where is justice, why do the wicked seem to get away with it, and what do we do when God feels silent? If this conversation provokes you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review with your honest takeaway.

Transcript

Setting Boundaries For The Talk

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Thing is, you said you don't have your Bible with you, so you're not gonna prove anything from the scriptures right now, as I as I understand it. So I'm offering you an opportunity to put it together so we can have a competent conversation. That's all. That's all. So, so and I'm I'm open to that. So just you put it together and then hit me back and we can talk about it. All right? Fair enough?

SPEAKER_04 0:22

It's all good, man. No, no, just all right. I think we feel more safer with Iran being destroyed.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Okay. I don't know what that means, but okay. But but we can talk. No, no, brother. It's it's good. We're good. I said I'll talk about it. I will.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Okay, let me ask you. Okay, so are you saying that we should just leave around over?

SPEAKER_05 0:39

No, no, no, no, no, no. No, I'm not I don't listen, brother. I want you to stay. I'm okay with you staying.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Okay. No, I just had questions, man. That's all. Oh, so you're not you're not really into political conversations.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

Yeah, but this is this isn't a political conversation. We already have we're we are we're doing it.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Oh, my apologies. My apologies, because I think I misunderstood when you were talking about political things.

SPEAKER_05 1:00

Okay. So now you know we're not tonight. We're gonna we can talk about you and you can talk about this. You and we can talk about this generally.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

All right, my friend. I appreciate you, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

All right. So, yeah, whenever you're ready, we can talk about it. Believe me, I don't run for anything, brother. So when you want to talk about it, get your Bible ready. Not talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Talk about this step. Right. I'm I'm gonna do that, and I need you to get you um uh because she said she was talking political. I need you to get those facts together too, so we could dive into that too, too.

SPEAKER_05 1:28

I wouldn't have told you that. I wouldn't have told you that if I wasn't gonna do that. I'm always talking about it. Okay, no following, brother. I'm always yeah, I'm gonna follow you, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I think um, I think um yeah, I'm gonna follow you, man, because you uh I can learn some things here too. We can talk about it. That's pretty cool, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

I'm gonna I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yes, sir. I just sent you a follow, man. You know what I mean? All right, I support your channel.

Allegiance To Jesus Over Nations

SPEAKER_05 1:46

You'll get it back. You just you just got it back, all right? Yes, sir. Appreciate you, man. All right, brother. I appreciate you too as well. Sister Lisa, go ahead. Lisa and then back.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I mean, I mean I was just gonna say something with regards to this. Just a couple of thoughts. If I'm allowed, unless you want me just to drop it, Jonathan. I'll just drop it.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

I'm gonna respond if she does.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Let's let's drop it because I know that if you talk about it, he's gonna want to talk about it. And then if I talk about it, he's gonna say, like, it's a domino effect.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

It's a domino effect.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

Yeah, so so so listen, we'll we'll we'll we'll get to it. I I want to be objective about the conversation we're already having and uh the polic the political political stuff we could talk about outside of that. Brother Pat, did you want to have something you want to add? Or Lisa, did you want to say something else or or what?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

No, but I'm seeing um Mr. Davy Cooper wants to say something next to me.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

Uh brother Pat and then Davey.

SPEAKER_06 2:37

Yes, sir. Well, what I will say, so that neither side gets mad, is I think I'm a prophet, Jonathan. I mean, did I say or did I not say that what doctrine you believe will determine what you will justify in this life? For sure. For sure. If you believe a particular doctrine, you will justify just about anything. And this is the history of humanity. And we have to remember where did World War II that mustache mustache guy come from? He came from a country called Germany. That was a Christian stalwart. This was a source of strong theology, my friends. Christian was in Christianity was ingrained. These were not uninformed people, right? But when you start believing doctrines that aren't true, you'll view the world in light of them.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

Oh, sure. Because you you you need because you have to have something to substantiate what you do, and uh, and what you're supporting, you you really do, and you know, and and everybody today is a prophet. Everybody's a prophet today. Everybody and uh uh um so there you go. So Lisa, go ahead and say what you're gonna say. He's gone, so he doesn't want to hear anymore, as I figured he would do. But go ahead. What were you gonna say, sister?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Well, I was just gonna suggest a few things as I do, as I did before. Right. That if you say that you follow Jesus, you must obey Jesus and not the men of the world. Do you is your allegiance to the kingdom of God or is your allegiance to America or to Israel, the nation of Israel?

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Where is your allegiance? Right. That's all right. The war that's happening now is a war of the world. Christians are no longer of this world. We are citizens of the kingdom of God, and we must obey our Lord. Otherwise, we'll stand before him one day, and he and we will say, Lord, Lord, didn't we stand with Israel in the genocide of Gaza and the genocide in Iran in your name? Lord, Lord, didn't we do these things in your name? And Jesus will look at us and say, Depart from me, you worker of iniquity. I mean, this is something that's real that people need to think about. Come out of the world, follow your Lord Jesus Christ. That's all I was gonna say. Just like Job, trust the Lord. I mean, Job could have got very worldly, he could have been crying about all the stuff that he lost that the Lord God allowed to be taken from him. That's right. Family, his health. And Job never cursed God and obeyed him. And that's what we need we need to do. That's what we need to do. Go back and read what Christ teaches us.

The Elect Argument Meets Human Suffering

SPEAKER_05 5:50

Right. That's all. Brother Davey, go ahead and speak, brother.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Oh, Jonathan, I don't think you're gonna want to hear this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. And I'm gonna try to say this.

SPEAKER_05 6:00

Oh, let me let me let me pause. Let me I'm gonna pause for a second, but you go ahead and and and speak. Go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

All right. I got I I I want to say something, and it's not gonna be easy for me to say, but I'm I'm I want you to know that I'm trying to say this without being offensive, okay? Gaza, Iran, all these terrible things that are happening. Well, I I get it. I'm not uncompassionate to human human life. But the only way I know how to say that is so what? If if they were part of the elect, they would not be destroyed. They couldn't be. There's no way that they could be. Wait, what? Am I wrong? If they're part of the elect, they will make it. Right or wrong? Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

If God's sovereignty hold them. Jesus doesn't say that. He says, turn the other cheek. Do not repay evil for evil. People hate the must be a good thing. No, I don't disagree with you.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

I do not disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. I'm not that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about people making it to heaven or going to hell. That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_06 7:09

Well, David, you're talking about Israel, which is a 1.8% Christian population. Palestine was 17% Christian. And in one in five people in the country of Iran, we're talking about Christians. 22% of Iran are Christians. So just so you know who's who's being unalived there.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Right, Pat, forget about I'm not, I'm not on anybody's side, not even America, okay? I'm not any, I'm not, I'm not trying to promote Israel, not at all. I I don't, okay. I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to, and I told you at the very beginning, this was gonna be a very difficult thing for me to say. And I'm not trying to sound, I I don't want to sound uncompassionate to human life. I am. But the elect are the elect. The elect will make it, no matter what. No matter if you're Iranian or in the Gaza or in Israel or in Africa or in the United States or in South America, it doesn't matter where you're from. If you're part of the elect, you're gonna make it. If you're not, you're not gonna make it. Period. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

But will will you feel the same when war comes to this land and your family is blown up? I mean, you see what I'm saying? I do, Lisa.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

I'm sorry, listen, and I'm sorry for bringing that up. I'm sorry for saying such hard things, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I I don't I don't mean to you're right. The elect will go, but what about those who haven't heard the gospel yet?

SPEAKER_02 8:35

If they're not part of the elect, it doesn't matter whether they've heard it yet or not. If they're the elect, they're going.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I guess you you're right. You are absolutely right. Okay. I guess.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

So are we saying it doesn't matter who we analyze? It does matter. I I told you at the beginning, Pat, that this was gonna be a hard thing to say, right? And I I it's there's no way to say it without saying, without sounding cold and and and you know, that you don't have compassion for for human life. I do, absolutely I do. I I don't want you to think that I don't. But I also say that the truth is the elect are the elect, they're going no matter what. Period. So the sovereignty of God promises that. There's no way around it. If you're part of the elect, you're going.

SPEAKER_07 9:26

I just kind of want to make sure I'm understanding what he's saying. If you don't care, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Go ahead. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_07 9:34

Basically, what I think I'm hearing you say is what does it matter with what happens over there? Because God's people are gonna make it into heaven because they are his elect and they they they it happens for every purpose and plan of his cause, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

That that's almost right, Lisa. I I I don't just care about over there. I'm talking about anywhere. I don't just care about over there, but anywhere.

SPEAKER_07 10:00

You're taking the spiritual, it's it's not the world that we should be worried about. So it's not the place Iran and everything going on, is what we should be worried about. We should be worrying about the spiritual part of it. It's spiritual Israel, not Iran. But what they're talking about is the word of the good news, the gospel, being spread to those who haven't heard it. I can see both sides, but I also I think I'm understanding where you're coming from with it as well. It's like it's almost like who cares if they're getting into it or they're doing things to shooting each other down. It's not about races, yeah, it's about the elect or the chosen or it's the remnant, not God's people, but at the same time, they are took care of because God's sovereignty said they would be. His sovereignty is gonna make sure they are saved. Well, I ain't gonna lie. If it comes here, Lisa's sister, let it come here and take me.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

I'm ready to go home. Hold on, Candy.

SPEAKER_05 11:05

Hold on. Go ahead, Dave. What were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_02 11:07

No, no, but Jonathan, and that's why I it's actually Pat just kind of, you know, and I love Pat, dude. He he makes me think, and so do you. And I've been thinking about this for a while, and it just happened to be the opportune night for me to come up here and say something because the topic came up. I I I I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Um, I I don't it's I don't want you to think that I'm not compassionate towards human life. I absolutely I hate when people I hate when people do evil things. I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. But God's sovereignty is God's sovereignty, and the elect are the elect, and the unelect are the the people that are not part of the elect are not, they're not in. They're just I'm sorry. That's the cold hard truth.

SPEAKER_05 11:49

That is that is true, but what about responsibility?

SPEAKER_02 11:52

So, yeah, no, that's the reason I brought it up. So explain yourself. I'm asking you. What so how does man's responsibility align with God's sovereignty? Because this seems like man's man's responsibility doesn't align with God's sovereignty. It doesn't.

Sovereignty Versus Christian Responsibility

SPEAKER_05 12:10

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And I'll explain myself if you want me to. Okay, explain. Go ahead, brother. So the way I see it, the world is the world. They act like the world, they are the world, we are not of this world. Our responsibility is completely different than what man's responsibility that are the the unsaved, the uh the lost. I'm talking about I'm talking about our responsibility. What's our responsibility? Saved responsibility, I believe, is is to is to do is to do the laws, to do the morals that God wrote on our hearts. That's what I believe, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_05 12:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Okay. You think I'm wrong there?

SPEAKER_05 12:51

Or no, I'm really uh no, I I don't I can't say you're wrong. Uh I because I'm really not understanding the because when you first popped on, and I'm sorry I had to step away for a second.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

No, no, it's okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

But when you first popped got on, you said that you were gonna say something that I might not like or agree with whatever.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

No, no, no, no, no, it's just hard. Listen, the thing that I'm saying is a hard thing for anybody to hear. No, but what are you saying though? What's the my statement is is that I understand evil things are happening in the world. They always have and they always will.

SPEAKER_05 13:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

But the people that are the elect will make it into the kingdom of heaven, no matter what happens.

SPEAKER_05 13:31

We know. So we we understand that. So let me ask you the question, brother. Let me ask you a question, brother Davy. Do you pray? Every day, Jonathan. Why?

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Because it it it it it clears my conscience and it and it and it allows me to reveal things to God, even though He already knows them.

SPEAKER_05 13:50

So you don't so you don't you don't see prayer as the the the throughput for getting things done, for having for God doing things.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

So so there is responsibility then on our part. I I do believe there is responsibility for the for the saved. Right. So so what I'm what I'm saying is when when when I know that when I pray, as every Christian should pray, right? Part of what we do what we pray for is that lost souls will be saved. Now, I understand, just like you're saying, we know all the elect are gonna be saved. There's no doubt about it. You're that you are 100% about right about. I don't understand, what I don't understand, and what I'm trying to get from you is what do you believe are the implications of that? Do we sit back and do nothing because we just know that all the elect are gonna be saved?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_05 14:46

Not what so what I'm saying is what then is the responsibility? How does the responsibility of the Christian, because you just said responsibility doesn't align itself with sovereignty? I disagree with that. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

No, no, no, I didn't say that. Uh I didn't say that. Uh I said man's man's, the world's responsibility does not align itself with God's sovereignty. I know, but I'm asking you about I'm asking Christians, yes. We we should align ourselves with God's sovereignty, yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

Right. So what I so this is what I'm asking. So the question is what is the responsibility of the of the Christian in this world? Matthew 1920.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

And how does it take and how and how does it align with God's sovereignty? Matthew 28, 19. That's what our responsibility is. That's a great commission, right? Go out and and win souls. That's what we should do. Right. So Yeah, I don't I don't no Jonathan. Listen, I'm not up here. I I I really don't, I'm not trying to cause waves or anything like that. It's really something that's been gnawing on my brain. And I I have a lot of respect for your opinion. That's what that's what it is. I'm up here bringing it up to light. So my point is is that yeah, even though over in Iran, things are horrible. The things that are happening are bad. Yeah, I get that. But people that die there are not part of the elect if they're not the elect, right? Yeah, we should be able to. Go ahead, Pat. Go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. No, no, no, hold on. Pat, let me let me only hear him finish this statement. But my point is we should be trying to win to reach those people, but if they're not meant to be reached, then then they're not gonna be reached. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 16:28

That that's because I see as a problem with this, brother. Yeah, and and that's this. You're not wrong about the sovereignty of God in election. You're not wrong about that. You're absolutely right about that. Okay. And I don't know why you would think that that would be a problem for me.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

And you know, I'm new to this, I'm new to this doctrine, so it's it's a thing that I'm learning as we go, right?

SPEAKER_05 16:50

I appreciate that, brother. I really do appreciate that. I appreciate you, by the way. So let me ask you, so the question is this if I am the president of this country and I want to wipe out nations, the best thing that I could get in my defense for what I'm going to do is to get a lot of Christians aligned with me who would say what you're saying right now. Oh, what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, I don't support Israel, by the way. I'm not supporting Israel. No, no, but no, but what I'm saying is that if I follow your logic and I'm a man with a little mustache, or that a man would or a man today with those proclivities of the man with the little mustache, I would love what the Christians are saying if they're saying what you are saying right now. Really? Oh, yeah, I would love it. Because you in that statement sanctions. No, I'm not sanctioning anything. No, no, no. You may no, brother, listen, you may not be saying that may not be the intent in your heart. I believe that that is not the intent in your heart. I totally believe that. But saying it is what will be will be made of, will be made out to be a sanctioning guideline for the people who want to destroy lives. Because they can go and say, hey, the Christians are on board with this because they understand that anybody that we kill, it's because they're not elect according to their Christian religion. You understand what I'm saying? I do, I do. So what I'm saying is, I understand what you're saying, and I don't believe you have a nefarious heart. I don't believe that at all. I believe that what you're saying is you mean to be true. But what but we need to understand if if our current government and what their and initiatives initiatives that they are putting in place, if they want to take over countries, if they come to the conclusion that all Christians believe what you just said, they have every right to do what they want to do because they will have us siding with them because we say all God's elect, if they're not guys elect, then that means we if they weren't guys elect, we couldn't kill them.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Well, I mean, I I I just want to say one more thing and I'll let Pat go. I am about the gospel. The gospel to me is the most important thing that there is on this planet. Nothing more than that.

SPEAKER_05 19:14

But you can't preach the gospel, but you can't preach the gospel to dead people.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

No, I get that, Jonathan. I I totally get that. And I and I like I said, I it's it's in my mind, if the gospel didn't reach them, God would allow for the gospel to reach them and and and activate them if that was if that was within his will.

SPEAKER_05 19:36

But but you but but Dave, David, surely you can understand this. No, I get what you're saying, but I I I totally get it. Yeah. So I believe you. What I'm saying is that, yeah, if a person in power wants to persuade people that who he wants to destroy should be destroyed, and if they get support by saying, Well, hey, we're not involved in what you're doing, but we do know that you can't do anything to the elect. And and so, and so if that gives them the wielding power. Yes, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

That's right. This is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 20:19

This is this is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I I get it. My brother, and listen, from my heart, I I I I I want you to understand I want you to understand that my intention when I came up here to ask this question was not about world powers and worldly men and what they do on this world, right? I get it, bro. My only thought was about us as the elect, the chosen, right? The chosen, the remnant, right? Right. Um, I know Pat's probably itching to say something. So um, you know, I'll I'll let him go. I uh that's you know are you gonna hang around for a while or are you gonna you gonna talk about it? No, I'm gonna hang around for a while.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

All right, brother Pat and then Lisa. So check this out, Davey, because I I want you to hear what I gotta say, man. You know I love you, bro. But we are gonna be here.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

I gotta drop down. I gotta go. I'll see you guys later. No, I'm just kidding.

unknown 21:13

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 21:14

Friends like these, man. Friends like these.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_06 21:19

I come here for this. Okay. We're salt and light. And what does salt do? It's it preserves decay. And what does light do? It illuminates, it brings light to the world and and casts out darkness, right? And that's our job. Election is God's business, it's God's choice. It's something that he did in eternity, and we weren't around, and nobody was there to question him or or give him advice on how to do it. He created all things unto his himself for his own divine purposes, and nobody can say anything about it, and that's God's business. But our business is to obey his prescriptive will. That's the will that he has made known to us. And so here's what I will say about this, Davy. We can't have anything to do with evil as Christians in any part of life. We can't sign on to evil. We can't have it in our personal life. We can't we just cannot have anything to do with evil deeds of darkness because we're not of the darkness. We are of the light. And we also let me say one last thing. We also can't what good is a light or a candle if you cover it up? You also can't shrink back. If you cover up the light, you're not shining and illuminating things, right? So we got we have to shine bright and remember that we are that light of the world. We're the very light of the world, God in us. You get what I'm saying, Davey?

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_06 22:59

I just want to press home this one point. Jesus left this earth. He came in flesh. He left this earth, but he sent us another comforter. Okay. That comforter indwells each and every Christian. What does that mean about us? That means uh we are of the same spirit of Christ, and we are his very representatives in this world.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Indeed. Okay, Jonathan. Let me just say to the panel and everybody in the room, listen, I'm sorry if if I offended anybody. I that was not my intention. No, no, no, no, no, no. Let me get it out. Because it was very, it was a very it was a very crude thing to to to kind of say to get a point across, right? But you know, I don't I I I want everybody to know my heart. I I'm not by any means maniacal, right? So I my my intentions were pure. And and I'm I'm sorry if I offended anybody, but you brother, you didn't offend you didn't offend anybody, not in this room, brother.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

We love you, bro. Dave. I know, and I love you. Let me tell you something.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

Let me let me tell you something, Davey. Man, look, every time I see you pop up, I'm glad you're here. And I'm glad you get me. And and I'm and listen, this is what we're supposed to be doing, having these conversations. This is what we're supposed to do, right? This is what we're supposed to be doing. And so you people, we you know, we everybody every now and then is gonna throw something out there and we're gonna put somebody's gonna say, oh, oh, this is crazy. Or we're gonna say, oh, that's great. You know, but we this is what we're trying to do. We're trying to learn, we're trying to grow together in grace. And so I welcome you. And and and I'm telling you for sure, as God is my witness. I'm not offended.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 24:41

And I don't, I don't feel you, I don't feel you offended me, nor do I feel that was your objective. I don't believe that that was your objective to offend anybody here. And and I'm sure everyone here you know feels the same way. I I believe that way. And and and so no, brother, I feel that I don't feel that you have a nefarious bone in your body.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

Right.

Salt And Light Without Shrinking Back

SPEAKER_05 25:01

So nothing to apologize for. We're having we're having a competent Christian conversation, and this is what we're supposed to do. So you're my brother, and you're welcome here any day to talk about and express yourself any kind of way you want to.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Let me just say one more thing, Jonathan, to you. Sure. This is on a side note. Earlier during the conversation, earlier during the study, you were talking about that guy that made the comment in the in the in the thing, and you were really wanting to go off on him.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Bro, that's what you did to me. You really went off on me during one time, and I'm gonna tell you something. It's what changed my it's what changed me. It's what I was like. Oh, yeah, you did, bro. Yeah, you did. I was in the that I I'm telling you, you may not know this. I thought you and I had talked about this before, but I I used to be a freewheel. Let me put it that way. Um, born and raised. But um, I came in one night, there was me and another guy, and we were just hounding you about that dude, and you were just all over us, bro. And I I left that, I left that live so, excuse my French, but so pissed off, bro. I was so mad. You would have pushed my face in there. Oh, I wanted to tear you from one limb to the other. And then, and then I'm just honestly, and then I went into another live with Evie was there, right? And I was talking about this trash doctrine of Calvin, Calvinism and election is for the idiots and this, that, and the other. And bro, by the time we left that live, I uh two weeks later, I was I was definitely under the the the doctrine of election. And you know, I and it what and it I want to I want to tell you that your uh your directness is kind of what was was the spark of that straight up because it gnawed on me for weeks, bro. For weeks it gnawed on me, and I couldn't get it out of my spirit, and I finally, after I had that conversation with Evie, I just told the Holy Spirit, I have to know the truth. I've got to know the truth. That's all there is to it. And so I started studying, and sure enough, to me that's the truth.

SPEAKER_05 27:10

Oh man, brother, that's I didn't expect to hear that, and I certainly do not remember that. It's consistent with it's consistent with my responses, but I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

I say, I say say what you have, say what you will, say what the Holy Spirit puts on your heart, whether it's right or right, or you know, whether it's harsh or not, because you never know what kind of impact you're gonna have on somebody's life. Because I'm I'm I'm living proof of that. So all right, that's it. Carry on.

SPEAKER_05 27:40

Wow, man. That that's that's Davy.

SPEAKER_07 27:42

I'm I'm I'm praise to God pieces on that. Don't worry about being yourself, Jonathan, and how people perceive it. That's right. You are made unique, fearfully and marvelously. I mean, don't start cursing people out, but you know what I'm saying. Right. I'm with Davy on that one.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Oh man. Wow. Um, yeah. Well, Brother Davey, I'm glad that you had what happened happened to you. I just the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Bless the Lord. You know what I'm saying? Blessed be the name of the Lord, just like Job says. The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. That's my favorite verse, by the way. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Right? No matter what happens, we bless the name of the Lord. So, you know, Jonathan, I appreciate you being the vehicle. I appreciate you yielding to the spirit and all that that you do, right?

SPEAKER_05 28:33

Oh man, thank you so much for that. I mean, I really appreciate that. Because you didn't have to say that and you did, and I and I really, really appreciate it. God bless you, brother. And and you feel free to disagree with me anytime you feel like it. No, I will, trust me. I know you will, because the more people learn, the more threatening they become.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

No, that's and that's the truth, right? And and and and we say things and we talk about things that most Christians don't want to talk about because they live a very pacified Christian life. Yes. And we're we're I I as much as I hate to say that you I like your little catchphrase, be provoked, right? It's it there's some truth to that, man. There's a lot of truth to that. If we're not provoking each other, then we're not looking at Paul. Paul, Paul and Peter, Paul was provoking Peter all the time, man. This guy's like on Peter's tail end, you know, about being a Jew and separating himself from the Gentiles and all that stuff, right? In public.

SPEAKER_05 29:27

So yeah, amen, brother. Amen, man. Well, I but I thank you, Davy. And and and um, and like I said, I I really, you know, I really welcome any conversation and the context of it, if we can be productive, brothers and sisters, in it. And and that's what you did. And and I and I I and I like how you came at me with with this, because that's that's how we should do it, you know, you know. And and and and good, doing things in a good and proper way, it has a way of eliciting the same thing from others, you know. And I'm trying to get better at that, brother. Like you, like you noticed, it's funny how you you noticed how I I held back with that other gentleman. I'm trying to get better at that, you know, uh at um I do know.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

I do know Jonathan, and and trust me, it's you might be about you might be a little younger than me, maybe just to I don't know about that, man.

SPEAKER_05 30:26

I'm I'm usually I'm usually one of the older guys here.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

To figure out, hey, bro, you know what, man? Maybe I need to re re rethink my approach to people, right? And I'm very direct. I'm very direct. And I don't think the military helped any any of that.

Back To Job And The Question Of Justice

SPEAKER_05 30:45

Yeah, well, I I've been there, done that, so I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about. So uh, but God bless you, brother, man. And and like I said, you you you you are welcome in my company any day of the week, man. Anytime you want to come up, come on up and let's talk about whatever. Brother Zach G. Absolutely. Brother Zach G, haven't heard from you tonight, brother. And welcome tonight. And if you got anything to add, let's hear it. What what you think? Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Can you can you hear me all right? I hear you just fine, brother. Uh no, hey, just want to say thank you too. Um, I've been following along for the last couple months. I've been new to TikTok. I've only been up here once, but um just follow along through Job. And I go back all night, so uh I won't be able to hop on here very much, but I've learned a lot because we've been studying it in my Bible class. And and if somebody else wants to go on about the current subject, but I was just gonna start picking up to where we kind of left off in Job, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_05 31:40

I love that. Look at look at look at Zach G bringing me back home. I like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Well, you know, and maybe I'll go back and just a little short recap, you know, like in Job chapter 22 and 24, this is the third round of Eliphaz, right? Right. You mentioned last uh, I remember you mentioned the gloves come off, some lies start to come out, and that's what happens when we've exhausted ourselves in the in these fights that we get in. And you know, and so you know, Eliphaz believes that, you know, good people prosper and bad people suffer, you know. And in my notes here that I'm going back because I've been listening, going back through my notes here. In John chapter 9, the disciples are walking with Jesus and they come across this blind man who may, I can't remember if he had diseases or if he was crippled, but he's definitely blind. And they're like, uh Jesus, you know, who sinned this man or his parents? And Jesus says, Neither, you know, he's for God's glory, you know, so I can do something amazing with this guy, and that's exactly what he did. And so one of the other points that I got out of that is like be you know, out of that chapter 22 and 24 is be be beware of uh of defending God with lies, you know. And so I thought that was pretty important, you know. And then we go on to Job chapter 23, you know, this is where Job cries out for that mediator that we we brushed upon there, you know. You know, I can't find God, but I know I know him, you know, I know I know he knows me. You know, he may be quiet, but he's still there, you know. Job wants this courtroom. He feels like he's abandoned, you know, but he still trusts in God's purpose. You know, Job wants the advocate, the courtroom defender, you know, someone who understands suffering, and and that's where we get to understand that, you know, that's exactly who Christ came to be for us, you know. Job cries out for what we now possess. And so that's just amazing how we can go back. And then it now seems like we're picking up in Job chapter 24. And the theme of this, you know, is where is the justice at? And we can and really we can apply this to modern day history. That's what I like about this job chapter 24. It's like, where's the justice? Why do the wicked seem to get away with it? That's what we ask ourselves, you know. And then Job flips the script, you know, he's like, Look, Eliphaz, the poor explode, you know, they're they're exploited. The helpless are crushed, there's murderers, you know, God seems silent, and this just feels so modern today that we can see it. And so the big idea is that that justice seems delayed. You know, God appears hidden. Job's wrestling around with every believer wrestles with today. You know, is God just? Why does evil thrive? Right. And so and and so we see all these tensions resolved with the cross, you know, because we see that that God sees injustice, he enters the injustice and and he and God absorbs it, you know, and he experienced it with this. He added that the humanity to his deity, you know, and so we know as believers that that final justice is coming with his return, right? And so just like with Christ, I think, you know, the wicked thought they got away with it. And so don't don't think for one second that the wicked are gonna get away with it nowadays, you know. We see time and time again him taking down, you know, pretty, pretty bad leaders throughout this whole thing. And so, you know, I just want to say, you know, we've already we already know, you know, that the main point of what we're reading here, we still gotta somehow apply it. Sometimes we just gotta come back and say, you know, when we can't see God's hand, trust his heart, you know. And so, you know, I got this little note down here that I wrote uh on one of your studies that says, we won't always know why, but you can know that I know, you know, and that's me talking to myself that that God knows, you know, and there's like another layer, and it's kind of wild to think about it, but but when God finally speaks to Job in the later chapters, you know, he never mentions this heavenly, heavenly wage, you know, wager that he had. Hey, hey Job, you know, uh this is kind of about Satan, and you know, I I wanted to teach some angels some things and show up uh Satan, just give him a little uh pound in there that he ain't nothing, and uh, you know, but the real answer didn't come with this information. This the the that the real uh it it came with the revelation of who he is, you know, and so we may not know why, but but we know who he is and we know his character, and we're just so grateful that we don't live back then and we get to see his character through Jesus. And and uh that I guess that's my outtook that I've been trying to look at throughout the whole war is that man, my God is good. I don't understand, but man, I know who he is, right?

SPEAKER_05 35:42

Amen, brother. Amen. You're a walking outline. I like I need to have you around me more often. It saved me a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Well, I mean I man, I I I I I've been decided.