LIVE: "Will God Esteem Thy Riches?" (JOB 36), Part 3/4

Thunder, clouds, and changing weather sound like small talk until you realize Elihu is using them to make a towering claim: God actively rules the world. We sit with Job 36:30–33 and trace Elihu’s argument that the same creation God uses to feed people can also bring storms, harsh seasons, and judgment. That launches us into the deeper issue behind so many conversations about suffering and the sovereignty of God: if God is truly in control, what is a hurting person supposed to do with that truth? 

We push on a hard question that shows up in real pastoral care and real friendships. Elihu says many correct things about God’s power, wisdom, and providence, but does any of it actually help Job’s specific situation? We talk through the difference between knowing doctrine and gaining understanding through affliction, and why reminders of God’s greatness can feel hollow when someone is “in the toilet” emotionally. We also weigh whether Elihu is simply defending God or whether he is, in fact, accusing Job of pride, empty talk, and even rebellion, just with a more sophisticated tone than the three friends. 

Along the way, we challenge arguments from silence, ask what it means to “defend God” while you’re suffering, and name the tension between right theology and right timing. If you care about the Book of Job, Christian suffering, biblical wisdom, and the question of why the righteous suffer, you’ll find plenty here to think through with us. Subscribe for the next chapter, share this with a friend who loves deep Bible study, and leave a review with your take: is Elihu wisdom, misfire, or both?

Transcript

God’s Power Over Nature

SPEAKER_04 0:00

that so um and so we'll we'll we'll we'll continue this is the last section of this of this of this book of this chapter verses 30 through 33 Elihu says behold speaking about God he spreads his light upon it and he covers the bottom of the sea for by them judges he the people he gives meat in abundance with clouds he covers the light and and command and commands that it not shine by the cloud that comes between the noise thereof shows concerning it the cattle also concerning the vapor so again he's dealing with God's involvement God's providential work in creation and so he's showing that God uses natural forces and he provides and he does so to provide and to also to judge Rodney I forgot to get to you brother go ahead you have something you wanted to say brother Rodney you there all right I will move on so he he he in these verses here in verses 30 to 33 he's showing that the same processes that God uses to bring food and life can also bring storms and and judgment and you know harsh seasons is what he points out thunder and changes in the weather display his power and they warn us of his presence so he talks about the animals they even the animals can even determine these changes in the in in in creation so my point is what what is that Elihu again he is saying a lot of true things about God he's saying a lot of true things about God these are true these are true things I skipped some verses Meg I I don't I don't think that you went over 24 through 27 really yeah I think you missed those no I went through 20 I went through 25 well okay well maybe it was 26 because this is the 26 is fire and so is 27.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

No I read that one too I read so I read that too as well oh you I didn't hear that one because that's a good one I love first 26 Behold God yeah I I read that too so is there a part of there you want to go you want to go back over no I just want to say like the the way that he's speaking about God he says behold God is exalted and we do not know him the number of his years is unsearchable so even in our like right stances that and we know like from reading scripture like even when we have it right right or we think we have it right there's something because God is unsearchable in his knowledge and his wisdom and so even Elihu sitting here saying all these right all so much deep theology that he's saying here even Elihu is in a space where there's not a complete and perfect knowledge job is in a space where there's not a complete and perfect knowledge because we are not God because we are man and I think that it's so it's so awesome to see that no matter how much there's still something that's unsearchable when it comes when it comes to the Lord you know and and it's and that's what it says is behold God is exalted and we do not know him.

Does Elihu Help Job

SPEAKER_04 3:55

The number of his years is unsearchable right no you're absolutely right you're absolutely right it's just it's mind blowing but that's what that's what he's but in this whole chapter is is good in that regard what he says about God is awesome. In fact everybody in this book well even the three friends what they said about God I can't remember if any of them said anything that was wrong as it pertains to God. In fact I would argue that if anybody came close to getting God wrong it was Job as God is going to point out but all these people are speaking things about about Job but we're gonna find out in in a in a we're gonna find out in a little later um job's situation uh from God's perspective is gonna be very interesting when we when we get to that but no you're right sister Meg I mean he really he he does a good job a very good job of speaking about the glories of God um and so and in this whole chapter he doesn't really he he doesn't really do much other than what you just described. And so and and and and like I said it's not that he's saying anything it's not that he's saying anything wrong but the issue is how what it what how is he helping Job did is are these things something that we think job didn't know. Does anybody think that these are things that things that he's talking about are things that Job didn't know?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

I I think that Job knew I do I think that Job knew but his understanding of them he did not know so you think Elihu knew and Job did not know? No what I'm saying is is uh in I think that this is especially like when we get to 37 we're gonna see it's all about storms and weather and then God breaks in but when he when he's saying this I think sometimes it's like he elie who stated that he was going to impart wisdom and just becomes because somebody's young and it it it doesn't matter how old they are if the spirit of God imparts wisdom to somebody then we we are we need to listen period i whether we I mean man woman whoever it is the spirit of God reveals that to them then then Elihu is somebody who is having wisdom and in is is revealing these things not saying that Job did not did not believe them not saying that Job did not know them but what if it's that job is coming to a different type of understanding as we see in 38 when God breaks in he's coming to something hence Job chapter 42 verse 5 that he knew he knew these things but now he has a different understanding which to me is so glorious and it it's the the best part of the book.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Right okay um no you're right he he he he he's talking about God I disagree that Job did not know I think Job did know these things I don't think Elibu said anything that was new to Job or or his friends. I think he said a lot of true things and you know listen we we we have we we have even in our our own lives as in in in as Christians that when we are afflicted there's always that person where all they do is just remind you about how good God is and you're in the you're in the total toilet in terms of how you feel your life may be going. And you get people that will say things about God how good he is and your mindset might be a little different because the situation that you're in but it's not that you don't know anything it's not that you don't you don't believe these truths about God. But when people are are under the weight of affliction especially at this level sometimes it is hard to see things clearly when it comes when it comes to God you know and brother Max says I think job needs to hear it yes we all need to hear it we all need to hear it but the issue is the issue is he's speaking truth as I I don't know I don't know how many times I can say this I really don't he is saying truth about God but what I'm asking for is where is his truth about Job this is what I'm asking about and so and this is what the this is what we're dealing with you know and like I said unless I'm missing something so we know what he's saying about God is true. We know what the other guys are saying about God is true. We know that things that we know that what Job was saying about God was true. Job right now is dealing with his relationship with God his one-on-one situation. So my question is this what did Elihu uh say that was beneficial to God we know or to Job about his situation. I'm not talking about how great God is we know how great God is and everything here like Brother Max says needs to be heard needs to be reminded we read the Bible every day because we need to understand who God is and we need to be reminded but what we're talking about here is how was how and when did Elihu if ever address Job's condition why he was in that condition and this is what he said he was going to clear up and he's and he and he's the one that made the grand assessment that Job got his wish in wanting to hear from God and that God basically sent him to be his mouthpiece which is kind of weird because if he's the mouthpiece then why did God have to break in and be his own mouthpiece? But that's another conversation. Sister Mariah and then Meg.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah I'm I'm just reminded of like while I'm thinking about you know these last few chapters and well the whole book uh really is that um I can't help but to think like he's saying that he's just speaking without knowledge and there are some points where obviously he needs um God is going to give him more knowledge and understanding on who he is and how he is operating and who is he to question anything that he does. Granted um there is a lot of of great things that Job has said you know like um that should he not take the good with the bad you know or um he he will still hold to his integrity though yet he slay me I will still trust in him and and all of these things um that job has said so I think to just say that he just has completely spoken without any knowledge at whatsoever um is a little passive aggressive and condescending in a way um to me yeah I I I think we we'll find out about that in short order.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

So but I think it's good it's it's good it's a good exercise. Go ahead Meg you and you want to say something else go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah I'm just saying I think that I don't see again as Elihu being accusatory. I I think that I think that he's showing that and God does correct us all and and and to think that we can even stand in a place where we speak without knowledge we do and and that's the very first verse that God says in 38 the very first. Let me ask you a question what is this this is what I was asking earlier what was Elihu correcting Job for I don't think Elihu was correcting Job I think that he was I think that he was showing Job give like he said he says I want you to hear my heart he says it this is my opinion I am by no means basically the one to really bring this out but I want to I want to I want to show you wisdom I want to bring some wisdom out job but then but then you still have to have you still have an issue with having it to address why his wrath was kindled then because he's he he was angry he job felt I I think that Elihu was right in saying that there are some places where Job defended himself and not God. And the whole time through 32 through 38 Elihu is defending God alone and we see that through these chapters if we once once we complete them I've read these like four times over and I have not seen where Elihu is condemning Job in any type of way what I feel Elihu is doing in my opinion is imparting wisdom to him and showing him that he it he is where he was angry is because there were times because he sat back and listened where Job was defending himself and not God. And in in and in and in chapter 40 verse 2 God says it okay and and so I think that it's just coming to a place of understanding on a deeper level that you didn't understand previously and I think that Ellie who is bringing him to this right you're right.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Sister Mariah go ahead yeah I I don't I see where towards the end um of his affliction where Joe may have um like tried to start defending himself and things of that nature and um probably getting really frustrated as we know that this he said was going on for months, you know um but I think that he was justifying God for majority of of the half you know until things I guess got a little too overwhelming for him. So I don't I I just don't see and and maybe this is a flaw on my behalf but I don't see where he is um correct on this matter I just don't see where Job was adding sin to rebellion to his sin and his affliction and I I just have to be reminded that this whole thing that they're talking about is their his affliction how he is not how he is handling his affliction but why he is being afflicted you know right Susalisa so I had a just a thought that came up um so Elihu got angry because Job defended himself rather than God but yet and he wants to make it right but yet he hasn't suggested where Job went wrong.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Like Job you you accuse God of this but this is this is the reality of it job you like I don't see any of that he's he is um speaking of God's uh goodness and greatness again which is true but it doesn't it doesn't seem like anything that he is saying to Job has my question is how if if I'm Job how do I defend the Lord rather than me like what was expected by Elihu? What was Elihu expecting to hear from Job he had these three friends of his battering him for months you know trying to convince him and like Mariah said we're we're at the end of you know he just heared heard it over heard it heard it heard it over and over and the poor guy um is just saying I'm not he wouldn't confess so I don't know like what really honestly that is a question I'd like to ask Ellie Hugh how does one how how does one defend God what would what like he he was obviously mad that Job didn't do it. So why isn't he telling him how to do it?

Is Elihu Calling Job Proud

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Right. Exactly uh uh brother Zach would what'd you I thought you were gone brother I was gonna call you and then I just then I just saw that you went moved up to a different slot. The system did that though but that's all right brother go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Hey brother I I maybe I'll just wait but is there still people have doubts that the Elohue was accusing Job of something wrong is is that what somebody is that what make what make's saying is that there's no accusations against him?

SPEAKER_04 17:20

That's exactly what she's saying.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

So like you know I I I you've done a great job uh but anyways um there's a couple points but I'll just make one here maybe at the end but Elohue doesn't always use the exact words but he does use pride and rebellion in in a neat sentence you know but he repeatedly interprets Job's speech as arrogant self-justifying and restraint towards God you know that's the key issue in chapter 33 8 through 12 Elihu summarizes Job as saying I am pure I am clean God finds occasion against me and then Elihu answers that that Job is wrong to contend with God you know so the point is is that Elihu sees Job as over overly confident in his righteousness against God. So there's one accusation so and then in Job 34 Elohu says Job has claimed I am righteous and God has taken my right hand my right and then compares Job's words to you know joining with evildoers. So that point is is that Elihu thinks Job's self-vindication has gone too far also. And then the other accusation that he has towards Job is in 35 Job opens his mouth in empty talk. He multiplies words without knowledge you know that's Elihu accusing Job of speaking arrogantly against God you know and then the other one is is Job 36 that we just read Elihu says God shows people the their transgressions that they are behaving arrogantly you know and through that so you know through that stated generally in in context he's applying this framework of of Job's affliction. And so you know there's and then the strongest is Job 34 for he adds rebellion to his sin. He claps his hands among us and multiplies his word up against God.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

You know that's Elihu explicitly saying Job is acting rebellious by how he speaks you know and so those are the those are some some big accusations he's but he says it in a kinder kind of voice you know and so he he does he he he's that's why I said brother he he is a shrewd smooth talker and and and this and this is what we and this is what we you know this is where we are but I you but I I I I agree with what all of what you just said because it's true. He did accuse he was accusing Joe and and and what I say is that he has been uh he has been much more sophisticated in his delivery of his accu of his accusations brother Rodney and then Meg.

SPEAKER_05 19:55

Yeah hey I just wanted to comment something um yeah I definitely agree maybe he's accusing him but it's more differently I know you're saying shrewd and smooth but I'm thinking like I said his friends were doing it in a more old-fashioned way whereas though Ellie who is coming in differently and I guess maybe sometimes you sit and watch others do their thing. I think before we're talking about like being the last to speak sometimes like the whole table talk and you just know what not to do and it kind of makes you the the upper hand because you don't know what to say which will be obviously the opposite of what everybody else said. So if you're trying to get on the person's side obviously you may somehow give them truth. I just feel like he redirected his suffering you know I mean he didn't really he didn't necessarily solve it he just redirected it for him and sometimes that can be the point. It doesn't answer things and you know it but it aligns things for you. You know what I mean? I just think that's where it is more so aligning it. Like suffering isn't always punishment joke. You know it can sometimes bring you out of it you know but if we know nothing but suffering I say this a lot of times sometimes you know people sometimes are scared of love you know we're so used to suffering that when the love shows up it's so foreign right you more you get more untrustworthy of the love because the pain feels good you know I don't that's that's just that's just my two cents.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

All right no problem brother sister may go ahead so like in in in chapter 33 right he says pay attention oh job listen to me keep silent and let me speak then if you have anything to say answer me speak for I desire to justify you so so when he's he's he's clearly laying out to me that he's desiring to justify Job. You know and and when we go and you hear his heart in the in the in the other part in the beginning um in ver chapter 33 verse two through Six, he he is giving his heart in the matter, and so then when he says, when he continues and says, if not, listen to me, keep silent, and I will teach you wisdom. Well, we we can it that's like me saying, You know, Jonathan, that I am wise. But if you came up to me and he says, Let me give you and you said, Hey, Meg, let me give you some wisdom. It doesn't mean that you don't think that I'm wise or you don't think that I have wisdom, but you're imparting wisdom to me, which to me, I'm like, man, let me hear it. You know what I mean? Let me let me ask you a question, Meg.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Do you see any fault with him at all? Any fault? And if so, what is it?

SPEAKER_02 22:48

I think here's I think that we are looking at him as overcoming.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Right?

SPEAKER_02 22:56

No, well, I think that if if I could say something, if I had to say something about Ilihu, to me, it's he he Elihu is very, very bold. But at the same time, the word of God tells us to boldly come to the throne of grace, right? I understand that. Is he in a is he being too bold? Is he being over?

SPEAKER_04 23:21

I don't think I don't think there's any boldness. All he's doing is talking about you know what how good God is, which is true. So what I'm asking you is this is there anything with him that you see wrong? You see anything wrong with Elihu?

The Danger Of Reading Silence

SPEAKER_02 23:35

I don't I don't see I see that Elihu in the preface of 32 that he was angry because he justified himself before God. So I see that he was angry, I see the reason why, and I see the reason why he was mad at Joe, the friends of Job too. But at the same time, when I read this, I just see him imparting wisdom. I see him, like I said, I feel like he's just a bridge. Because what's what's interesting to me, like I said previously to you, who stands before between God and man? It's it's not not significant that Elihu is standing in between when God speaks, and standing in between Job. And and and Job's friends are silenced after this, nobody else speaks. Job doesn't speak in reply after this, it goes straight to God. And and what's even more significant to me is in 37.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

But that's not significant at all. See, that's that's you again going down this path of trying to make an argument out of silence. You can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

But you can't make an argument out of silence on the other end either.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Sure I can. Sure, I can. So you can make it out of silence, but I can't I look at it, I look at it this way. Job uh God doesn't condemn Job's wife. What do we assume out of that?

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Because him and his wife are one. And if Job's not condemned, then his wife's not gonna be the one.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

What does him and his wife have to do with anything being one? She told him to charge, she told him to curse God and die.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

But man is but man is the head, right? And Job didn't. Henceforth, Eve ate and then Adam ate. Well, they didn't realize the sin wasn't imputed or done until Adam ate.

SPEAKER_04 25:32

But didn't God condemn Eve as well?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Yes, but it m Adam was the head and he was responsible. And if Job didn't do that, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

See, here's what you do. You can't you can't do this. You said that God, when I asked you, why didn't God condemn Job's wife? Why didn't why didn't we make an argument that you said because hold on, you said because they're one. Establishing a principle that you believe comes from God. But when he but when when Adam and Eve sinned, he condemned Eve, Adam, and the serpent. Yes, because Adam ate. Just hold on for a second. But you said your argument was that they're one. Uh-huh. And that God would not correct her because she and Adam are one.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

No, you're you said you said Job.

unknown 26:23

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Okay, just let me get out what I was gonna say, and then you can tell you can tell me. What I'm saying is you say then why you said you said that he didn't condemn, he didn't condemn Job's wife. And the reason that I've in my opinion, the reason he didn't is because Job was not the failure here. Job was deemed righteous and upright, right? So if if if he would have, they would have both been condemned. Same with same within the garden, right? Okay, Adam ate. Eve Eve ate first, but then Adam ate. That's why the both of them were condemned. But Job did it, do it. All right, job continued.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

Okay, sister Mariah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

I I know that you want to get to the other verses, but I just want to say, thank the Lord, God Almighty, that it wasn't uh his wife that he went and sent Satan to go ahead and try and say, uh, try my servant. I don't know her name, but because it seems as though she would have been willing to curse God to his face as soon as that first thing happened, you know, or the or the second thing happened. Had she received boils, she she would have. Why do you? What's the purpose of holding on to your integrity? Do you still hold on to this? Right. Why don't you just curse God and die? Thank the Lord that he didn't test her, because he knew obviously what we did not know that she would have to some type of degree done exactly what Satan wanted. Right. And um, so I just say, give glory to God that he tried Job and not her.

Final Thoughts And Job 37 Preview

SPEAKER_04 28:12

Amen. Amen. Um, so verse 30, and we'll finish this chapter. Um, he says, Elihu says, Behold, speaking about God, he spreads his light upon it and covers the bottom of the sea. For by them judges he the people. He gives meat in abundance with clouds, he covers the light and commands it not to shine by the cloud that comes in between. The noise thereof shows the noise thereof shows concerning it, the cattle also concerning the vapor. So again, he's he he is, I mean, we don't have to get into a lot of detail here, but he's he's also speaking about, once again, about God's power, God's glory, um, and how God controls nature, and and and basically he controls everything. He's he's pointing out that God, rightly so, that God is sovereign. And he everything he says here in this whole book has been true in the in this chapter, I should say. And this chapter has been true. So, so um, and again, I think that Elihu is a very controversial person, and I think it has a lot to do with his approach, which was v uh much more uh divergent from the way his friends uh spoke to Job. And uh and so he in in my mind sort of has this, he sort of has this um more of a progressive tone, a more of a more modern uh uh on tone on things. And he and he speaks about he he he he he gets into a lot of areas where he's where when he speaks about God, where it's safe. You know, speaking about God is safe, but he is careful not to um he's careful not to get too uh egregious in the way he uh uses his speech. And and I think he does a very good job of it. I mean the guy would be a politician today, I think. But he was a he was a a good speaker. And uh like Brother Zach pointed out, he did accuse Joe. Now the issue is gonna be whether or not when you read these things, you see it as that, and you can certainly not see it that way. But in my mind, i it it can't be escaped. He does. Especially at the end of verse of chapter 34. So so um so I guess here is where we'll stop, and I'll go around and give everybody their last words, and we'll wrap it up and start with Job 37 tomorrow, because this is the last chapter um that he um that Elihu is speaking. So, uh Brother Rodden, your last words for tonight.

SPEAKER_05 30:55

Yeah, well, I was kind of late, sorry about that. Um like I said, I just think what I think is kind of reminding me of like, and I'm gonna go to sports if I can. Like, you know, you get the new person on the team, he's the rookie on the team. You know, he may have been red-shirted, but he's watching everybody the whole season. But next season, you know, the coach promises he's gonna get some game time. But now the the vets are kinda like, all right, well, dang, you know we gotta we gonna cover for him or we're not gonna cover for him. You know what I mean? It's kinda like you know, but Ellie who's like, I don't need y'all to cover for me because I can he's the quarterback that can run around people, you know, he can get around